AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[lare2]

If Balewind Vortex still works the same (which it inevitably won't), it's still useful for when you decide to plonk Reikenor on top of one. 

[dmorley21]

So, while Nighthaunt currently won't benefit from All-Out Defence; All-Out Attack has the potential to be a game changer for Grimghast Reapers, Dreadscythe Harridans, and Myrmourn Banshees. 

Reapers and Harridans each have a unit champion, so they'll be able to use this ability without a nearby hero. I already think Reapers are great due to being able to do their damage without needing a hero around to buff them and this just makes them so much more lethal. Harridans, likewise, really needed that +1 to hit and now they can get it with a nearby Knight of Shrouds on foot. Myrmourns will still need a nearby hero to give it to them, but it at least makes their attacks a touch more likely to hit. 

Overall, I think Reapers are the Nighthaunt unit that have benefitted the most from the announced (and rumored) changes. They have a 2" reach, so the coherency isn't as much of a nuisance for them. They can use command abilities on themselves as long as their champion is alive. They're battleline and it's been rumored that battleline units will be allowed to be bigger than non-battleline units (so they'd still be able to be run in a unit of 30). It's making me sad that I sold 30 of my Reapers (I used to have 60), though obviously there's a lot more to see yet. 

[Landohammer]

22 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

So, while Nighthaunt currently won't benefit from All-Out Defence; All-Out Attack has the potential to be a game changer for Grimghast Reapers, Dreadscythe Harridans, and Myrmourn Banshees. 

Reapers and Harridans each have a unit champion, so they'll be able to use this ability without a nearby hero. I already think Reapers are great due to being able to do their damage without needing a hero around to buff them and this just makes them so much more lethal. Harridans, likewise, really needed that +1 to hit and now they can get it with a nearby Knight of Shrouds on foot. Myrmourns will still need a nearby hero to give it to them, but it at least makes their attacks a touch more likely to hit. 

Overall, I think Reapers are the Nighthaunt unit that have benefitted the most from the announced (and rumored) changes. They have a 2" reach, so the coherency isn't as much of a nuisance for them. They can use command abilities on themselves as long as their champion is alive. They're battleline and it's been rumored that battleline units will be allowed to be bigger than non-battleline units (so they'd still be able to be run in a unit of 30). It's making me sad that I sold 30 of my Reapers (I used to have 60), though obviously there's a lot more to see yet. 

The critical issue with the Grimghast Reapers is the same as the Harridans. They are just too expensive.

Reapers were hiked because of LoN abuse, but remain at the cost even after LoN is gone. Also Harridans price increase was mind boggling. They essentially traded double damage 6's to wound for exploding 6's (a lateral change for the most part) but got a 29% point hike. They weren't exactly A tier at 14pts. So at 18pts they are competitively DoA (no pun intended)

Also the rumor thread indicates that armies will only be able to expand 4 units beyond starting size. If true this absolutely crushes chainrasps, since now upgrading a unit to 30 will burn half your reinforcement points, and 40 man squads are gone. 

I hate to be a naysayer, but NH aren't looking to be a in a great place when 3rd hits, at least based on current leaks.

 

 

 

[EnixLHQ]

Leaks are leaks, though, and aren't usually accurate. Even if these are, we don't know the rest of the rules yet, nor have our updated book. All it takes is a sentence somewhere to change things.

Looks grim, but when does it not for us?

On the bright side, if you can call it that, is that everyone else is being affected by these changes, too. Our strategies will have to update, and by the end of the reshuffling, we may yet be a force to reckon with.

[JustAsPlanned]

I mean, when the new BT comes out there’s always a chance the Grimghasts could get knocked down in points again. Same for the Harridans.

[lare2]

Don't even have to wait that long. The GHB will have new points in it. 

[dmorley21]

Well based on a new article posted, Nighthaunt are 9th in line at the moment to get a faction review. Since the first couple, there hasn’t been much in the way of major reveals anyway, so I don’t think the review will have anything all that new for us. 

[Cronotekk]

Looks like we're going to suffer massively with this edition until we (hopefully) get a new book

-Smaller boards means deepstrike is much harder to pull off

-Reinforcement point system kills a majority of our units

-No good monsters to benefit from monster buffs

-Barely any good wizards

-No priests

[CaptainSoup]

51 minutes ago, Cronotekk said:

Looks like we're going to suffer massively with this edition until we (hopefully) get a new book

-Smaller boards means deepstrike is much harder to pull off

-Reinforcement point system kills a majority of our units

-No good monsters to benefit from monster buffs

-Barely any good wizards

-No priests

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with this. Apparently horde armies allegedly took too much of the spotlight last edition so now we have to pay for it by a blanket of nerfs in the core rules. I'm not entirely sure at this point how we would be able to have threatening damage or even create speed bumps so we can play objectives.

Our only hope at this point (until our new book comes, whenever that'll be) is either some new rules that haven't been announced yet or some serious points reductions and minimum model count changes in GHB. Though if rumors continue to serve well, we probably won't get that either (at least in points anyway).

Another rumor (take with a mountain of salt) is that Nighthaunt will not get anything in the way of new models either, which I'm honestly fine with, but then the BT will need some serious overhauling for our units and how we play.

Edited June 12, 2021 by CaptainSoup

[Cronotekk]

29 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with this. Apparently horde armies allegedly took too much of the spotlight last edition so now we have to pay for it by a blanket of nerfs in the core rules. I'm not entirely sure at this point how we would be able to have threatening damage or even create speed bumps so we can play objectives.

Our only hope at this point (until our new book comes, whenever that'll be) is either some new rules that haven't been announced yet or some serious points reductions and minimum model count changes in GHB. Though if rumors continue to serve well, we probably won't get that either (at least in points anyway).

Another rumor (take with a mountain of salt) is that Nighthaunt will not get anything in the way of new models either, which I'm honestly fine with, but then the BT will need some serious overhauling for our units and how we play.

Lack of models isn't really a problem for us, we already have quite a lovely range. Our rules just suck and need overhauling

[dmorley21]

Howdy everyone. 

Got in another 2 games with my Emerald Host list last night against a player running a Sons of Behemat list. 

My list was what I wrote about before:

Lady Olynder (general / reaping scythe) / Reikenor (spirit drain) / Krulghast (midnight tome / shademist) / Dreadblade (PotFW)

30 Reapers / 10 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 10 Chainrasp / 5 Harridans 

Black Coach

Cogs / Death Riders

His list was:

War Stomper (general)

Gatebreaker

1 Mancrusher / 2 Mancrushers / 3 Mancrushers

 

It was my first time playing against the army. We played Blade's Edge. In the first game I tried to just claim every objective after being given the first turn and spread his army out. On his turn, I was simply flattened. Even though I was familiar with the general concept of the army and how it played, in a game I simply did not play against it correctly. I called it at the end of turn 2 and asked the guy if he was willing to play again, same scenario and everything. He was, and I did a much better job of surgically removing his stuff from either flank and he ending up conceding after I tabled him at the beginning of turn 4. 

A few things:

I was surprised at how much work the Reapers did without their re-rolls. The range really helped to get a lot of attacks into the Giants whereas the Hexwraiths really struggled to have enough of them in range to do a good amount of damage. The Harridans were also a great unit and ended up doing 2/3 of the damage to his Gatebreaker while their minus -1 to hit ability really shined. The Black Coach did a great job of surviving and being a nuisance, but did a much better job when partnered with the Krulghast. Lady Olynder and her Hexwraith guard got absolutely wrecked. 

Overall, now that I know how that army plays, I think it's a really fun matchup. 

On 6/10/2021 at 11:19 AM, Landohammer said:

The critical issue with the Grimghast Reapers is the same as the Harridans. They are just too expensive.

Reapers were hiked because of LoN abuse, but remain at the cost even after LoN is gone. Also Harridans price increase was mind boggling. They essentially traded double damage 6's to wound for exploding 6's (a lateral change for the most part) but got a 29% point hike. They weren't exactly A tier at 14pts. So at 18pts they are competitively DoA (no pun intended)

Also the rumor thread indicates that armies will only be able to expand 4 units beyond starting size. If true this absolutely crushes chainrasps, since now upgrading a unit to 30 will burn half your reinforcement points, and 40 man squads are gone. 

I hate to be a naysayer, but NH aren't looking to be a in a great place when 3rd hits, at least based on current leaks.

20 hours ago, Cronotekk said:

Looks like we're going to suffer massively with this edition until we (hopefully) get a new book

-Smaller boards means deepstrike is much harder to pull off

-Reinforcement point system kills a majority of our units

-No good monsters to benefit from monster buffs

-Barely any good wizards

-No priests

20 hours ago, CaptainSoup said:

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with this. Apparently horde armies allegedly took too much of the spotlight last edition so now we have to pay for it by a blanket of nerfs in the core rules. I'm not entirely sure at this point how we would be able to have threatening damage or even create speed bumps so we can play objectives.

Our only hope at this point (until our new book comes, whenever that'll be) is either some new rules that haven't been announced yet or some serious points reductions and minimum model count changes in GHB. Though if rumors continue to serve well, we probably won't get that either (at least in points anyway).

Another rumor (take with a mountain of salt) is that Nighthaunt will not get anything in the way of new models either, which I'm honestly fine with, but then the BT will need some serious overhauling for our units and how we play.

Y'all... I'm seeing your reasoning, but not agreeing big picture. I think, based on what we know, Nighthaunt will end up in pretty much the same place they currently are. I don't see the new rules making them worse than other factions. 

Do I think Reapers and Harridans are overpriced? Sure. But not to the point where they aren't legitimate options in our book. If their points stay the same while most other points go up (likely for Harridans), I can see them being just fine. We'll have to wait and see on that. 

The reinforcement issues? I know running hordes of Chainrasps was popular, but I never saw it have any sort of success in Nighthaunt (it did in Legions of Nagash and Legion of Grief, sure). Chainrasps are great for their points but in the new meta with less hordes I don't see a unit of 30 acting all that differently than a unit of 40. The only other units that are worthwhile to run in a large group are Grimghasts and Myrmourns. Hexwraiths are rather unwieldy in 10 - they can be great, or they can just not be able to get enough of the models into the fight. Ditto Harridans. And Bladegheists should be taken in 10 max as if you take anymore than that you not only struggle to get them all into the fight, you also have more challenges utilizing their retreat and charge ability. Plus, MSU and Wave of Terror work really well together. 

No good monsters, sure I agree with that. I don't trust the Mourngul to stick around, even if you do argue it's good. And while the new rules are nice for monsters, I don't think you'll see one in every competitive list. 

The priest thing is unfortunate as well, but doesn't really change anything for us. And having a ton of great wizards isn't really anymore an issue now then it was then. And honestly, with Reikenor and a GoS with Wychlight and Lady O and midnight tome... you can have a decent little magic force. There's also the Briar Queen. 

I don't expect any points reductions in the GHB based on the rumors, but if other armies have a bunch of units go up in points while we have some stay the same, that'd be a win. 

Also, while I think Nighthaunt has a better range than most armies, I'd be shocked if there was no new model for the army with the next battletome. Every army in 2.0 got at least one of a hero, endless spells, or a terrain piece. Could we get another 5 wound hero? Absolutely! And if so, it'll probably be a 5 wound priest with an ability that has a small wholly within range that some think is worthwhile and others don't. Though if this edition focuses on monsters, I could see a ghostly monster to be the Citadel version of a Mourngul. 

Obviously, we'll know a lot more very soon, but I think Nighthaunt will largely be in the same place for this new edition A fun, but not overly competitive army. Maybe we'll even see a slight uptick because we're used to feeling like our lists aren't what they could be, which will be a new feeling for some armies! 

[Cronotekk]

1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

Howdy everyone. 

Got in another 2 games with my Emerald Host list last night against a player running a Sons of Behemat list. 

My list was what I wrote about before:

Lady Olynder (general / reaping scythe) / Reikenor (spirit drain) / Krulghast (midnight tome / shademist) / Dreadblade (PotFW)

30 Reapers / 10 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / 10 Chainrasp / 5 Harridans 

Black Coach

Cogs / Death Riders

His list was:

War Stomper (general)

Gatebreaker

1 Mancrusher / 2 Mancrushers / 3 Mancrushers

 

It was my first time playing against the army. We played Blade's Edge. In the first game I tried to just claim every objective after being given the first turn and spread his army out. On his turn, I was simply flattened. Even though I was familiar with the general concept of the army and how it played, in a game I simply did not play against it correctly. I called it at the end of turn 2 and asked the guy if he was willing to play again, same scenario and everything. He was, and I did a much better job of surgically removing his stuff from either flank and he ending up conceding after I tabled him at the beginning of turn 4. 

A few things:

I was surprised at how much work the Reapers did without their re-rolls. The range really helped to get a lot of attacks into the Giants whereas the Hexwraiths really struggled to have enough of them in range to do a good amount of damage. The Harridans were also a great unit and ended up doing 2/3 of the damage to his Gatebreaker while their minus -1 to hit ability really shined. The Black Coach did a great job of surviving and being a nuisance, but did a much better job when partnered with the Krulghast. Lady Olynder and her Hexwraith guard got absolutely wrecked. 

Overall, now that I know how that army plays, I think it's a really fun matchup. 

Y'all... I'm seeing your reasoning, but not agreeing big picture. I think, based on what we know, Nighthaunt will end up in pretty much the same place they currently are. I don't see the new rules making them worse than other factions. 

Do I think Reapers and Harridans are overpriced? Sure. But not to the point where they aren't legitimate options in our book. If their points stay the same while most other points go up (likely for Harridans), I can see them being just fine. We'll have to wait and see on that. 

The reinforcement issues? I know running hordes of Chainrasps was popular, but I never saw it have any sort of success in Nighthaunt (it did in Legions of Nagash and Legion of Grief, sure). Chainrasps are great for their points but in the new meta with less hordes I don't see a unit of 30 acting all that differently than a unit of 40. The only other units that are worthwhile to run in a large group are Grimghasts and Myrmourns. Hexwraiths are rather unwieldy in 10 - they can be great, or they can just not be able to get enough of the models into the fight. Ditto Harridans. And Bladegheists should be taken in 10 max as if you take anymore than that you not only struggle to get them all into the fight, you also have more challenges utilizing their retreat and charge ability. Plus, MSU and Wave of Terror work really well together. 

No good monsters, sure I agree with that. I don't trust the Mourngul to stick around, even if you do argue it's good. And while the new rules are nice for monsters, I don't think you'll see one in every competitive list. 

The priest thing is unfortunate as well, but doesn't really change anything for us. And having a ton of great wizards isn't really anymore an issue now then it was then. And honestly, with Reikenor and a GoS with Wychlight and Lady O and midnight tome... you can have a decent little magic force. There's also the Briar Queen. 

I don't expect any points reductions in the GHB based on the rumors, but if other armies have a bunch of units go up in points while we have some stay the same, that'd be a win. 

Also, while I think Nighthaunt has a better range than most armies, I'd be shocked if there was no new model for the army with the next battletome. Every army in 2.0 got at least one of a hero, endless spells, or a terrain piece. Could we get another 5 wound hero? Absolutely! And if so, it'll probably be a 5 wound priest with an ability that has a small wholly within range that some think is worthwhile and others don't. Though if this edition focuses on monsters, I could see a ghostly monster to be the Citadel version of a Mourngul. 

Obviously, we'll know a lot more very soon, but I think Nighthaunt will largely be in the same place for this new edition A fun, but not overly competitive army. Maybe we'll even see a slight uptick because we're used to feeling like our lists aren't what they could be, which will be a new feeling for some armies! 

How will we be in the same place if everything we don't have is getting buffed and everything we do have is getting nerfed?

[CaptainSoup]

41 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

Responses in blue:

 

Y'all... I'm seeing your reasoning, but not agreeing big picture. I think, based on what we know, Nighthaunt will end up in pretty much the same place they currently are. I don't see the new rules making them worse than other factions. 

 

That's kind of my gripe though. Nighthaunt are already struggling pretty bad. We don't need to be in the same spot we are now, we need to be better. Now I don't want to be insanely OP or anything, but I think when I get to play a game of AoS, it should be a game of who can strategize better, instead of having to figure out how not to get demolished or to stay alive long enough to play the objective.

Do I think Reapers and Harridans are overpriced? Sure. But not to the point where they aren't legitimate options in our book. If their points stay the same while most other points go up (likely for Harridans), I can see them being just fine. We'll have to wait and see on that. 

I wouldn't mind seeing the Reapers go back down to where they were pre-nerf and leave them alone, but GW might still be cautious with them.

The reinforcement issues? I know running hordes of Chainrasps was popular, but I never saw it have any sort of success in Nighthaunt (it did in Legions of Nagash and Legion of Grief, sure). Chainrasps are great for their points but in the new meta with less hordes I don't see a unit of 30 acting all that differently than a unit of 40. The only other units that are worthwhile to run in a large group are Grimghasts and Myrmourns. Hexwraiths are rather unwieldy in 10 - they can be great, or they can just not be able to get enough of the models into the fight. Ditto Harridans. And Bladegheists should be taken in 10 max as if you take anymore than that you not only struggle to get them all into the fight, you also have more challenges utilizing their retreat and charge ability. Plus, MSU and Wave of Terror work really well together. 

I feel I have to wholeheartedly disagree with this, unless the issue is trying to get the models wrapped around your opponent, which would be even more difficult now thanks to the coherency rules. I also see this as a way to make an already squishy Nighthaunt even more vulnerable by having less models to throw around absorbing damage.

No good monsters, sure I agree with that. I don't trust the Mourngul to stick around, even if you do argue it's good. And while the new rules are nice for monsters, I don't think you'll see one in every competitive list. 

The problem here is, from the way I'm understanding the new monster rules, its basically what I call a free "sub-phase" which gives monsters extra abilities for free, something that most armies can have access to but we cannot due to our lack of models with the monster keyword. An inherent nerf out of the gate.

The priest thing is unfortunate as well, but doesn't really change anything for us. And having a ton of great wizards isn't really anymore an issue now then it was then. And honestly, with Reikenor and a GoS with Wychlight and Lady O and midnight tome... you can have a decent little magic force. There's also the Briar Queen. 

Copy/Paste my comments about monsters to this as well. New free stuff most people get except us. This is unless they give some of our units the priest keyword, but we would have to wait for our new book for that, whenever that will be.

I don't expect any points reductions in the GHB based on the rumors, but if other armies have a bunch of units go up in points while we have some stay the same, that'd be a win. 

Or Nighthaunt points could go up further since we were a horde army and GW is clearly punishing them this edition. Either option is possible at this point.

Also, while I think Nighthaunt has a better range than most armies, I'd be shocked if there was no new model for the army with the next battletome. Every army in 2.0 got at least one of a hero, endless spells, or a terrain piece. Could we get another 5 wound hero? Absolutely! And if so, it'll probably be a 5 wound priest with an ability that has a small wholly within range that some think is worthwhile and others don't. Though if this edition focuses on monsters, I could see a ghostly monster to be the Citadel version of a Mourngul. 

The most recent Rumor Engine looks to be Nighthaunt-ish, what with the candles and all, but that's hardly a guarantee.

Obviously, we'll know a lot more very soon, but I think Nighthaunt will largely be in the same place for this new edition A fun, but not overly competitive army. Maybe we'll even see a slight uptick because we're used to feeling like our lists aren't what they could be, which will be a new feeling for some armies! 

As I mentioned in my first response. I don't want to see Nighthaunt continue to be the butt everyone's meta jokes, but I don't want them to be broken either. I just want to get into a game and not feel like I'm fighting an uphill battle every turn.

Responses in blue above

[dmorley21]

18 minutes ago, Cronotekk said:

How will we be in the same place if everything we don't have is getting buffed and everything we do have is getting nerfed?

I just don’t think it’s that cut and dry. 
 

We lose out on the monster and priest rules. I don’t see the new rules making either an auto include. In fact, I don’t think I’ll run a monster in my planned LRL army. Still, having the option for Nighthaunt would be nice. Maybe the Mourngul will stick around and be worthwhile again. Overall though, an opportunity loss but not a nerf to any of our units. 
 

Chainrasps get nerfed by the new reinforcement rules. They get buffed by their champion being able to issue commands. 
 

Reapers, Harridans, and Hexwraiths get buffed by the champions being able to issue commands. 
 

Some of the new commands are buffs (all out attack) while others are nerds (all out defense).

 

Chronomantic Cogs is a major nerf. 
 

More command points is a buff. We’re a command point heavy army and this will allow more fishing for Wave of Terror. 
 

The Krulghast is buffed a touch due to the totem rules. 
 

The Unleash Hell command ability is a nerf.

So yeah, there’s some stuff that makes me bummed and that I feel are nerfs, but there’s also buffs. I don’t expect my win/loss ratio or the closeness of my games to change much based on this edition (which, let’s be clear, Nighthaunt is a weaker army for sure!).

@CaptainSoup 

I don’t think we should have expected an edition to buff our army. When we get a new battletome, hopefully within the next year, that’s when I’m nervously hoping for meaningful changes. 
 

And I was referring to wrapping those units. Even in 2.0, it is hard to wrap big units of Hexwraiths, Harridans, and Bladegheists. The 1 inch range hurts them more the bigger of a unit you take. That’s why I think Chainrasps and Reapers work the best in larger groups. 

[CaptainSoup]

40 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

I don’t think we should have expected an edition to buff our army. When we get a new battletome, hopefully within the next year, that’s when I’m nervously hoping for meaningful changes. 

You're right we shouldn't. But then we shouldn't have GW indiscriminately hurt our army (horde) out of the gate either, especially since we're already hurting. Unless there are meaningful changes that haven't been announced/leaked yet that changes things we'll be hurting even worse than we do now, which means we have to take our lumps until the book comes out. Not a great feeling.

And I was referring to wrapping those units. Even in 2.0, it is hard to wrap big units of Hexwraiths, Harridans, and Bladegheists. The 1 inch range hurts them more the bigger of a unit you take. That’s why I think Chainrasps and Reapers work the best in larger groups. 

And those larger units now have an added tax to them. And if they don't change the minimum unit size for Harridans and Bladegheists, the added tax will affect them even harder.

 

[EnixLHQ]

There's a lot of language here sounding like we're the target of some kind of nerf conspiracy, as if some rule designer caught Olynder in bed with their significant other and this is their retaliation. That's not the case, I'd argue the Gitz got hit way harder than us based on what's been revealed so far.

But that's just it; what's been revealed so far. Forming such a strong opinion so early isn't going to do much else than disappoint you when the rules are finally set in stone for the next cycle. Either you'll think the negatives are worse than they are, or more likely, you'll think the positives aren't enough.

Trust me, I've been there. Proof is in my post history in this thread. I desperately want NH to play well. We're just going to have to wait and see (and be ready to send in feedback).

[CaptainSoup]

10 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

There's a lot of language here sounding like we're the target of some kind of nerf conspiracy, as if some rule designer caught Olynder in bed with their significant other and this is their retaliation. That's not the case, I'd argue the Gitz got hit way harder than us based on what's been revealed so far.

But that's just it; what's been revealed so far. Forming such a strong opinion so early isn't going to do much else than disappoint you when the rules are finally set in stone for the next cycle. Either you'll think the negatives are worse than they are, or more likely, you'll think the positives aren't enough.

Trust me, I've been there. Proof is in my post history in this thread. I desperately want NH to play well. We're just going to have to wait and see (and be ready to send in feedback).

I like to think of it less as a conspiracy and more of being caught in the cross-fire. Other horde factions needing to be toned down and we get hit by them as well despite not meaning to or not thinking about how it would affect our faction(hence the word "indiscriminately"). Of course this is all baseless speculation and like you said we don't know everything yet. Right now my expectation will be us being borderline unplayable out the gate but then getting a new battletome shortly after to hopefully either fix things or change the way we play as an army completely. I love (and often) being wrong though, because it usually means things are better than I anticipated, which at the end of the day is what I truly hope for.

[Sception]

Even without new models, there will need to be new releases just to keep the same range, what with soul wars getting retired.  Maybe they'll take the opportunity to repackage rasps in a box of 20 while they're at it, and change their minimum to match.

[dmorley21]

One of the reveals has been ward saves replacing all DPR saves. This would seemingly mean the Krulghast now protects against mortal wounds. That’s one unit in the range that has certainly been buffed by 3rd edition with that change and the totem change. 
 

It really seems like the Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern would make for a better totem, but it is what it is! 

[The_Dudemeister]

Rules rules rules

 

There are SO many things that I can immediately make good use off. 😍

 

First of all, listbuilding with the new, free(!) Core Battalions is really nice. Nighthaunt spam units (now that we don't bunch them up to big blobs) and we can easily spam our many baby heroes that go as low as 60 points. Take the Vanguard battalion. 1 hero and 1-3 regular unit and gives a once-per-game reroll to charge. I'd get that one 3 times and then I'd put the remaining 3 heroes and troops into the Warlord battalion for an extra command point and a second enhancement.

 

The enhancements are neat and I'm excited to hear what combos yall find for us. My first pick will be for my Guardian of Souls to reroll a casting roll per phase and a 5+ Ward save. I've kicked the GoS out of all my lists for a long time because his spell is unreliable and with the shooting meta I never get to play him long enough to make enough points back.

 

[EDIT]The following text is booboo. For the sake of the answers to it, I'll leave what I've written but it gets the tiny Comic Sans treatment

 

Another change is that whoever deploys first HAS TO start the first turn. Spamming 6 heroes and many troops, we can reliably always go second. Going first became really bad for Nighthaunt anyway. Even with deepstriking we have very unreliable first turn charges, we have no shooting and no magic reaches the enemy. Rushing up to the objectives also worked less and less because the damage output and shooting of most armies just made that a suicide mission what was once our main way of playing the game. Now with very reliably going second, we can deploy defensively wit that in mind and use our speed and fly for counter-charges. Alongside the several rerolls from battalions and I think this tactic will be the dominant playstyle for us.

Edited June 15, 2021 by The_Dudemeister

[EnixLHQ]

Love your take on this so far, @The_Dudemeister. I can't wait to see what else we can use.

I'm looking forward to fielding mixed units. We traditionally wanted to bring a lot of a single type of unit, like a bunch of Reapers. Maybe now it'll be better to mix that up as much as possible.

[Ellarr]

7 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Rules rules rules

 

There are SO many things that I can immediately make good use off. 😍

 

First of all, listbuilding with the new, free(!) Core Battalions is really nice. Nighthaunt spam units (now that we don't bunch them up to big blobs) and we can easily spam our many baby heroes that go as low as 60 points. Take the Vanguard battalion. 1 hero and 1-3 regular unit and gives a once-per-game reroll to charge. I'd get that one 3 times and then I'd put the remaining 3 heroes and troops into the Warlord battalion for an extra command point and a second enhancement.

 

The enhancements are neat and I'm excited to hear what combos yall find for us. My first pick will be for my Guardian of Souls to reroll a casting roll per phase and a 5+ Ward save. I've kicked the GoS out of all my lists for a long time because his spell is unreliable and with the shooting meta I never get to play him long enough to make enough points back.

 

Another change is that whoever deploys first HAS TO start the first turn. Spamming 6 heroes and many troops, we can reliably always go second. Going first became really bad for Nighthaunt anyway. Even with deepstriking we have very unreliable first turn charges, we have no shooting and no magic reaches the enemy. Rushing up to the objectives also worked less and less because the damage output and shooting of most armies just made that a suicide mission what was once our main way of playing the game. Now with very reliably going second, we can deploy defensively wit that in mind and use our speed and fly for counter-charges. Alongside the several rerolls from battalions and I think this tactic will be the dominant playstyle for us.

Person who finishes deployment first has PRIORITY, which means they determine who goes first and who goes second. It does not mean they automatically go first.

[lare2]

I don't see any reason to be negative about NH in the new edition. I think it's important to just forget what you ran in 2nd. Your army lists in 2nd edition won't work in 3rd. We've no idea really what our lists will be and how well we'll perform, especially when the new tome (finally) drops. 

[Neck-Romantic]

Definitely an interesting read; some of my first thoughts are theres quite a few +1 to save effects we cannot benefit from, and Priests seem extremely vulnerable with the 48" range on Smite.

 

Predatory endless spells getting a boost, smite, still being able to tarhet heroes with ranged attacks... looking pretty grim for our heroes.

 

My guess is the GoS or the Spirit Torment will become a priest

Edited June 14, 2021 by Neck-Romantic

[Sception]

Where are people getting the idea that core battalions don't cost points?  AFAIK whether they do or not was still an open question, since that information wouldn't be in the core book and so far that's where all the previews have been coming from.  Was there confirmation somewhere that I haven't seen, or has someone been leaking info from the general's handbook?