AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Liquidsteel]

You can't dispel your own ES with banshees in the same turn it was put down anymore. The FAQ for Nighthaunt corrected it to start of the hero phase.

[Rors]

1 hour ago, Liquidsteel said:

You can't dispel your own ES with banshees in the same turn it was put down anymore. The FAQ for Nighthaunt corrected it to start of the hero phase.

I looked up the 25/1/21 faq and I can't see it. Which faq is it in?

[Liquidsteel]

2 minutes ago, Rors said:

I looked up the 25/1/21 faq and I can't see it. Which faq is it in?

Nighthaunt FAQ - designers commentary.

[dmorley21]

4 hours ago, Rors said:

I think Olynder's betallion has some really cool sneaky plays that can be made.

While the troops are there are extra wounds, you can let her take the wounds until she's down to 3 or so left, I'm combat this will likely mean you have more attacks from less depleted units.

Sadly, you can't do this. The rules state, "On a 2+, you must allocate a wound or mortal wound to one of those models instead." 

This also made the new Knights of Regret rule not quite as good as Dolorous Guard, as I had to whittle down my Hexwraiths. 

The other thing to keep in mind with Olynder's battalion, is that it's just not as efficient as the Hexwraith rule in Emerald Host. Hexwraiths are 2 wound models (thus they only die every two wounds) and are 13 pts a wound. Myrmourns are 17.5 pts per wound and Harridans are 18/16. 

I think it has play, but the reason to play it is wanting to play Reikenor's Condemned and wanting access to Lady O's Command Ability while getting a Command Trait. 

6 hours ago, Btimmy said:

Grimghasts are very good. They hit well vs hordes and can actually fight in ranks. I would take them over harridans any day because harridans have 1" reach on 32's, meaning unless you have huge real estate to get all them in, its unlikely that they can all even get into combat. I think people have some strange math-hammered opinions about harridans being good that doesn't translate to reality at all in my opinion. 

Oh, no doubt. I don't think anyone doubts Grimghasts. It's just when they went up in points, they went from an auto-include to being no longer a favorite. I'm hoping they get their points lowered as they won't be part of Legions of Nagash anymore. And they are far and away our best big unit. 

5 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Good to hear you had an overall winning set! If you were to adjust anything from the list you brought, what would it be?

Bladegheists and Shroudguard is a tournament staple, though, because of the 5++. If KC gets FAQed to do the same for both mortals and normals, shove him with a pack of Reapers and that'll be amazing. Shroudguard use will probably go down quite a bit unless people want just that much more 5++ running around, which isn't a bad thing.

My problem with Shroudguard was that in any sort of competitive environment, the KoS or Reikenor was deleted very quickly as they don't benefit from the 5++. The other problem is that Bladegheists are designed to wheel around the board, making it inefficient to keep them in a bubble. Especially two units. 

As for my list, I'd swap artefacts on the Krulghast. My Harridans helped nab some objectives, but I never got them into any meaningful fighting. I'd really like to up the small unit of Hexwraiths, but based on rumors I don't think it's worth the investment. Especially as I really dislike those models. 

I'll probably end up running the same list more or less until there's new rules. I really enjoyed having the three hammers of the Reapers, Lady Olynder, and 10 Hexwraiths. 

[Loyal Tripper]

Hello fellow worshippers of Death!

After a long lock down my buddy and I are getting ready to play again with the armies we originally started with all the way back at the start of 2nd. I was hoping to bounce some ideas against your collective wisdom since it has been a while since I used my ghosts. I am looking to solidify a list now so I can get the rest of my army painted for a full 2k painted party. 

 

So far after looking at lists others posted as well as other forums I have this:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Emerald Host

Leaders
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)
- General
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: The Traitor Knight's Blade
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind

Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths (130)
5 x Hexwraiths (130)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

Battalions
The Forgotten Scions (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

He is likely to bring the very best SCE list he can and I would like to be able to compete. I also have Reikenor, 12 Myrmourn banshees, 2 tomb banshees, 3 spirit hosts, glaive wraith staulkers, lord executioner and 10 harridans. Is this the best I can run with what I have access to? I can justify max 1 extra purchase if it will catapult my list significantly. Thanks all!

[EnixLHQ]

24 minutes ago, Loyal Tripper said:

Hello fellow worshippers of Death!

After a long lock down my buddy and I are getting ready to play again with the armies we originally started with all the way back at the start of 2nd. I was hoping to bounce some ideas against your collective wisdom since it has been a while since I used my ghosts. I am looking to solidify a list now so I can get the rest of my army painted for a full 2k painted party. 

 

So far after looking at lists others posted as well as other forums I have this:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Emerald Host

Leaders
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)
- General
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: The Traitor Knight's Blade
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (130)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind

Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths (130)
5 x Hexwraiths (130)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

Battalions
The Forgotten Scions (140)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

He is likely to bring the very best SCE list he can and I would like to be able to compete. I also have Reikenor, 12 Myrmourn banshees, 2 tomb banshees, 3 spirit hosts, glaive wraith staulkers, lord executioner and 10 harridans. Is this the best I can run with what I have access to? I can justify max 1 extra purchase if it will catapult my list significantly. Thanks all!

I like this list a lot. Forgotten Scions gives the KoSoES his CA for free every battle round which is better than the Procession's once per game. Gets you the Pendant and extra CP. Lots of Chainrasps, lots of Reapers, so ready for most things. 3 spells/unbinds, the Stormcast don't usually bring a ton of spellcasting, but do have a few you'd want to try to shut down. Seems pretty good.

A few questions: The Dreadblades, just for Forgotten Scions and objective captures, or do you plan on using them for any combat? Reaper blob might be too big to fit wholly within a hero's support bubble, though a Dreadblade will make that a bit easier to position. Disregard if you plan on running them alone. Olynder is the general, plan on her and the Hexwraiths moving as a unit? She's much slower than them but it's not a bad play. Are the Bladegheists just for the points or to be paired with the ST? A group that small will disappear really quick, but if you plan on using them from the Underworlds as an assassin group that seems good.

How do you plan on running the list?

[Loyal Tripper]

Thanks for the reply @EnixLHQ. Your guide was very helpful  to me in my list planning phase. I believe forgotten scions will stack with the traitor blade giving the KoSoES a total of 6 sword attacks, 7 if he uses the ability on himself. Seemed spicy for a cheap character. 

I have only ever run my dreadblades as part of the super battalion, emeradl host where I had relics to spare to make them more killy. I am not sure how to make them more effective without so I was going to have them babysit units to spread my aura's around. I am open to suggestions though if that is suboptimal. 

Olynder is very much supposed to be the core of a deathstar moving up to the center of the board. She has the 2 units of hexwraiths as ablative wounds and I have always had the most success when she is front and center. I also love her commander ability. I was also going to have the chainrasps/guardian with that deathstar to screen and impose a threat. 

The bladegheists are there because they are cool. I could take them out if you think they are a liability. I was planning on flanking with them and the ST or dropping them in with him. 

[dmorley21]

@Loyal Tripper

The list looks fun though after my recent experience, I'm worried about the size of your Hexwraith units. 

I will say that you should give the Pendant to one of your Dreadblade Harrows instead of the Spirit Torment. The Pendant with the Harrow's ability to teleport at the beginning of the movement phase means you can almost always have the extra movement where you want. That way you don't need to worry about trying to have your Spirit Torment boost Lady Olynder's movement while also wanting it to boost the Bladegheists. 

The synergy between Pendant of the Fell Wind and a Dreadblade Harrow just can't be beat IMO. I don't make the Harrow my general anymore, but still always take one just to carry the Pendant. 

[EnixLHQ]

1 hour ago, Loyal Tripper said:

Thanks for the reply @EnixLHQ. Your guide was very helpful  to me in my list planning phase. I believe forgotten scions will stack with the traitor blade giving the KoSoES a total of 6 sword attacks, 7 if he uses the ability on himself. Seemed spicy for a cheap character. 

I have only ever run my dreadblades as part of the super battalion, emeradl host where I had relics to spare to make them more killy. I am not sure how to make them more effective without so I was going to have them babysit units to spread my aura's around. I am open to suggestions though if that is suboptimal. 

Olynder is very much supposed to be the core of a deathstar moving up to the center of the board. She has the 2 units of hexwraiths as ablative wounds and I have always had the most success when she is front and center. I also love her commander ability. I was also going to have the chainrasps/guardian with that deathstar to screen and impose a threat. 

The bladegheists are there because they are cool. I could take them out if you think they are a liability. I was planning on flanking with them and the ST or dropping them in with him. 

What @dmorley21 said.

If you use the Bladegheists/Spirit Torment as an assassination drop from Underworlds, that's a good tactic but rarely used due to how quickly an important hero can just be erased. Basically banking on the Wave of Terror roll or die trying. You could opt for those points to go into more Hexwraiths.

Yes, a Dreadblade with the Pendant is a high IQ move. You select the unit he is next to move and they will get their +3", then you teleport the Dreadblade next another unit you want to move, and then select that unit. They then also get the +3" to move. Basically, as long as all units who are within his 12" Pendant bubble are selected to move they get the bonus, but the bonus is at the start of their move, not his. And the condition of his teleportation is merely to check if any enemies are within 3" of him at the start of the movement phase. His actual teleportation can occur at any part of the movement phase.

I'm also concerned that having the Chainrasps with the Hexies and Olynder might be too many slow moving units all in the same area of the board. Stormcast are slow, for sure, but you don't have to be as well. I'd have the Chainrasps and GoS either engaging first way ahead of her, or moving elsewhere on the board entirely.

[Aeryenn]

On 5/4/2021 at 12:45 PM, dmorley21 said:

Sadly, you can't do this. The rules state, "On a 2+, you must allocate a wound or mortal wound to one of those models instead." 

This also made the new Knights of Regret rule not quite as good as Dolorous Guard, as I had to whittle down my Hexwraiths. 

The other thing to keep in mind with Olynder's battalion, is that it's just not as efficient as the Hexwraith rule in Emerald Host. Hexwraiths are 2 wound models (thus they only die every two wounds) and are 13 pts a wound. Myrmourns are 17.5 pts per wound and Harridans are 18/16. 

I think it has play, but the reason to play it is wanting to play Reikenor's Condemned and wanting access to Lady O's Command Ability while getting a Command Trait. 

Oh, no doubt. I don't think anyone doubts Grimghasts. It's just when they went up in points, they went from an auto-include to being no longer a favorite. I'm hoping they get their points lowered as they won't be part of Legions of Nagash anymore. And they are far and away our best big unit. 

My problem with Shroudguard was that in any sort of competitive environment, the KoS or Reikenor was deleted very quickly as they don't benefit from the 5++. The other problem is that Bladegheists are designed to wheel around the board, making it inefficient to keep them in a bubble. Especially two units. 

As for my list, I'd swap artefacts on the Krulghast. My Harridans helped nab some objectives, but I never got them into any meaningful fighting. I'd really like to up the small unit of Hexwraiths, but based on rumors I don't think it's worth the investment. Especially as I really dislike those models. 

I'll probably end up running the same list more or less until there's new rules. I really enjoyed having the three hammers of the Reapers, Lady Olynder, and 10 Hexwraiths. 

What rumours regarding hexwraiths? Or Nighthaunt overall?

[lare2]

Might've accidentally bought another 40 rasps... anyone got any experience running 120 of the little son of a guns?

[dmorley21]

On 5/6/2021 at 10:47 AM, Aeryenn said:

What rumours regarding hexwraiths? Or Nighthaunt overall?

There's general rumors that faction specific battalions will be going away with 3.0 this summer, and instead there will be generic battalions for all armies. 

If that is the case, I wouldn't want to invest in more than my 15 Hexwraiths as I don't think they can make up the bulk of your force as their warscroll is without running the Death Riders battalion. 

[EnixLHQ]

1 hour ago, lare2 said:

Might've accidentally bought another 40 rasps... anyone got any experience running 120 of the little son of a guns?

You've got be beat by double. You're a mad person.

[lare2]

Couldn't resist. £32 for the lot via Mortal Realms. Been going to my local Forbidden Planet every lunch break for weeks staring at them. No one else wanted them... thought it'd be rude not to!

Edited May 7, 2021 by lare2
I dread painting another 40 - ha ha!

[Ranzou]

Made magnet moving trays, from cardboard base and rubber iron.

Five-men for 32mm and ten-men for 25mm bases.

It took around two hours and two dollars for me. 

It could be more accurate, but my hands are not so straight.

[lare2]

37 minutes ago, Ranzou said:

Made magnet moving trays, from cardboard base and rubber iron.

Very cool. 

[EnixLHQ]

A couple of fresh faces turned up in my army the other day. They introduce themselves as Bud and Lou, but I'm a bit suspicious. Still, happy to have them along.

[dmorley21]

So, how's everyone feeling at the announcements this week in regards to Nighthaunt? 

I'm feeling rather excited. 

First up. the new Soulblight Gravelords book will provide some new allies for the ghosts. And ghosts may be allies for Soulblight. I won't really care to play them, but that at least will open up new options. 

I also think the announced changes for 3rd edition will really benefit the army. 

Having access to seemingly many more command points will allow Nighthaunt to do more fishing for Wave of Terror charges, more Dreadblade shenanigans, and more use out of Lady O's command ability and the ones with each KoS. 

I'm also really intrigued and hopeful for core battalions. There could be a battalion that is two battleline units and a hero that allows you pass wounds to the battleline. Imagine Spirit Hosts being able to do that with Lady O. Another possible core battalion might grant units in it +1 to their charge roll. That would be minor for most armies, but would be huge for Nighthaunt to make charging from the Underworlds more reliable. 

Maybe neither of those will come to pass, but as someone who really enjoys list building, I'm excited by the possibilities even though I'll miss the short-lived Death Riders/Emerald Host comb I've been rocking. 

[EnixLHQ]

3 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

So, how's everyone feeling at the announcements this week in regards to Nighthaunt?

I'm still digesting what little I have been able to find, but I think any rules rewrite can only help us, right?

Confirmed AoS 3.0 stuff (as from the streams)
-Double Turn still exists
-If you go second in a game, you get more command points.
-More command abilities that exist in different phases
-Core battalions, not a lot of detail, but supposed to address how some armies can take a ton of battalions and others can't
-Complete rules rewrite with clarity and separation in mind
-Lore will focus on Ghur

We tend to go second right now, so the extra CP will be nice. Suppose that can change with a new core book, core battalions, and new battletome, though.

I agree with you @dmorley21, I am not really keen on the Soulblight allies or vice-versa. I love me a vampire army, and the Vampire Lord is a great ally right now, but I hope that we are strong enough on our own that no ally choice is an auto-pick.

So, they mention "core battalions," but they didn't describe what that is yet. In 40K there are Core Units. But our battalions already function like Core Units do, at least generally. Shroudguard is pretty much how they work in 40K; a leader gives out a buff to specific troops they command, but not all of the army, and doesn't benefit from that buff themselves. Being Core, they represent the spearhead of your army, and help you make choices on how you are going to support them with the rest of the army.

Thinking on it, I think core battalions are more for factions like Tzeentch or anyone else who can just jam pack battalions into their lists right now, and gain all the benefits of it like the extra CP, artefacts, and abilities that can affect anything in the army, while factions like Cities of Sigmar are so restricted on what battalions they can take and tend to have rules that only affect the battalion. Either it will reduce the likelihood of seeing more than one or two battalions for any given opponent and that those benefits will only ever affect a portion of the army, or unlock a couple battalions that can be used for your faction regardless of the subfaction you choose but still only affect a portion of the army.

For me, the biggest reveal so far is their commentary of "rules will be written with separation and clarity in mind." They have mentioned before that the FAQ system, though useful and necessary, has become more of the "actual" rules than the books they correct are, and that wasn't the intention, kills innovation, creates unforeseen power imbalances, and worst of all (in their words) the feeling you can't play the faction you selected until its FAQ comes out because it's "incomplete" at release or every major update until the purple text is printed. I hope they can kill the rules lawyering that happens before these FAQs come out, because that is one of the highest bars of entry into this game. Gatekeeping, in a word. The Cruciator is a perfect example. I hope that in the future it's not even a question if his ability affects mortal wounds or not because they will have addressed in clean language in the Core Rules how words and ability names work, and the window of potential you have in an ability isn't in how you choose to read the words but how it affects gameplay, and your decision to use an aspect of the game (like models or factions) isn't tied to your level of anxiety on if you can properly argue the rule. Magic the Gathering recently went through a similar rewrite of their Golden Rules for the exact same reason.

[lare2]

Well, that's pretty much confirmation that the Mortis Engine won't be crossing over to NH. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by lare2
Shame. I'd've liked to have seen it with NH.

[Spears]

I'm mostly excited about the prospect that the nighthaunt units are no longer gimped in NH by their potential abuse in Legions of nagash. I don't think the points hits to grims for instance would ever have been needed if they weren't summonable in lon.

[lare2]

3 minutes ago, Spears said:

oints hits to grims

No doubt. A reduction in their points should be a priority. 

[LordPrometheus]

2 hours ago, lare2 said:

No doubt. A reduction in their points should be a priority. 

A new battletome should be a priority

[Neck-Romantic]

I am keenly awaiting a new tome. Ive always maintained that the current book was a hastily cobbled together, last-minute hodgepodge of half-tested rules to go with the new line of minis that delivered on a deadline whether it was finished or not.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Neck-Romantic

[Yargar]

I agree that the book needs a rework, but I am on the fence with the generic battalions. I'm afraid they will water down armies into the same thing.