AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Evil Bob]

Is it a little greedy to hope for, “All of the above,” pretty please GW fairy?

[Bayul]

3 hours ago, lare2 said:

They might be in it but I reckon the focus will be on vamps. Still though, hopefully we might even get some profile updates. 

There are Nighthaunt in the trailer. It's their turn now.

[EnixLHQ]

[JustAsPlanned]

Sadly no new rules for us in BR: Teclis : (

[Zashier29]

Is there hope for a book still? I'm trying to recover from the gut punch that was BR: Teclis.  I'd imagine that a 3 year old army is somewhere on priority list for update, but I've been wrong before. 

 

[dmorley21]

4 minutes ago, Zashier29 said:

Is there hope for a book still? I'm trying to recover from the gut punch that was BR: Teclis.  I'd imagine that a 3 year old army is somewhere on priority list for update, but I've been wrong before. 

 

Idoneth, Nurgle, and Legions are older. They did say every army would be featured in Broken Realms IIRC. 

Still, I'm really disappointed. Why show Nighthaunt in the announcement video when they are the one Death faction not getting updated?

[Zashier29]

Alright, Thanks. Honestly, the announcement video rubs all of us the wrong way. I was already contemplating switching to OBR, and this announcement is pushing me more, but I have hope that Nighthaunt will get an update or an announcement of one this year or beginning of next. 

My pet theory is that Lumineth  push into shyish, get stomped by Bone Daddy Nagash, and he sends Nighthaunt to wreck havoc in Hysh for the arrogance of the Teclis.

[Greasygeek]

1 hour ago, Zashier29 said:

Alright, Thanks. Honestly, the announcement video rubs all of us the wrong way. I was already contemplating switching to OBR, and this announcement is pushing me more, but I have hope that Nighthaunt will get an update or an announcement of one this year or beginning of next. 

My pet theory is that Lumineth  push into shyish, get stomped by Bone Daddy Nagash, and he sends Nighthaunt to wreck havoc in Hysh for the arrogance of the Teclis.

That would be to good to be true.

But hey as LRL and Nighthaunts play at the moment it makes no sense for Teclis to go to Shyish himself. Can’t he just send 2 units of 20x Vanari Sentinels. They will deal with the Nighthaunts, Bonereapers and Nagash all by themselves😉

[EnixLHQ]

Lore and gameplay don't usually line up. If they did Nighthaunt would be a scourge on a level so great since Lady Olynder took over that other armies, in the middle of their bloody fights with dire enemy factions, would temporarily join forces against NH whenever they chilled the land.

In lore Nighthaunt is so feared, so relentless, and so deadly the only reason Nagash didn't send them to win all his fights is because they were leaving eviscerated soulless corpses in their wake and not taking items, bones, or any other spoils of war with them, effectively leaving immense resources on the field that Nagash felt belonged to him.

In fact, the only downside to Nighthaunt in terms of lore was that if they were in the realms of the living too long it would take Olynder herself to reign them back in. Her generals and other heroes would eventually lose control of the sheer rabid hatred and frenzy of these tortured souls and they would scatter. In other words, without Lady O they were the perfect lightning strike force coming in from all directions and washing over the enemy like a wave, and with her the perfect standing army with unwavering wills, ultimate focus, and unlimited new recruits.

Not to mention that the Lady herself was causing the hearts of battle-hardened Stormcast warriors to literally seize in their chests, or make their generals fall to their knees and weep, just by her presence a battlefield away. And let's not get started on what Kurdoss brought to the table, or how the Emerald Curse works.

They do have a hidden weakness that may be highlighted in a Broken Realms book, though. Especially with Teclis. It's hinted very heavily that Nighthaunt get their power, as in their ability to effect physical matter, through their composition being heavy in amethyst magic. Should that be undone they would be reduced to wailing shades fading into the wind.

*sigh...* All you have to do is read the last few dozen pages of this thread to see how we so very much want NH as a faction to more line up to their lore.

[dmorley21]

Taking a break from disappointment, I taught a friend to play yesterday on TTS. It took a little bit for us to figure everything out, but after not playing for almost a year now it was a lot of fun! 
 

[Cronotekk]

Lol all our points went back up again in the new FAQ, GW hates us

[dmorley21]

1 hour ago, Cronotekk said:

Lol all our points went back up again in the new FAQ, GW hates us

Ben Johnson said on Twitter that was a mistake. 

[Bayul]

3 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Ben Johnson said on Twitter that was a mistake. 

Point changes or Nighthaunt?

[Zashier29]

2 hours ago, Bayul said:

Point changes or Nighthaunt?

I believe the Point changes, but it does feel like the latter. 

[EnixLHQ]

6 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Ben Johnson said on Twitter that was a mistake. 

As far as I can tell he just said he'd "pass that on tomorrow." And that the concern is "on the list."

But, I don't think a points reset was intended, either.

Unless... *puts on fanboy hat and reads too deeply into it*

[dmorley21]

On 1/26/2021 at 12:45 AM, EnixLHQ said:

As far as I can tell he just said he'd "pass that on tomorrow." And that the concern is "on the list."

But, I don't think a points reset was intended, either.

Unless... *puts on fanboy hat and reads too deeply into it*

In case there was any lingering doubt, I no longer see any points on the document. 

Also, @EnixLHQ, thanks to the magic of Tabletop Simulator I actually tried out a version of your "mortal reign" list - and loved it! I was shocked at the damage a unit of 6 Spirit Hosts backed up with a Spirit Torment could do. 

[EnixLHQ]

1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

Also, @EnixLHQ, thanks to the magic of Tabletop Simulator I actually tried out a version of your "mortal reign" list - and loved it! I was shocked at the damage a unit of 6 Spirit Hosts backed up with a Spirit Torment could do. 

It's crazy, isn't it? It's swingy, but thanks to all those 1's being rerolled the bottom part of that swing is still pretty damaging. But, man, all those mortals!

How did you run them?

[dmorley21]

7 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

It's crazy, isn't it? It's swingy, but thanks to all those 1's being rerolled the bottom part of that swing is still pretty damaging. But, man, all those mortals!

How did you run them?

Yeah I was really skeptical, but each combat they were in they did some significant damage. I ran them in a 1000 pt list as I'm teaching my buddy the game (he played once a year ago) and he's playing as Idoneth Deepkin. He was running an MSU list with units of 3 eels and a couple units of 10 thralls.

The Spirit Hosts supported by a Spirit Torment took one unit of eels down to 1 wound on a single charge, causing him to avoid them with his other eels. They also wiped out a unit of 10 Thralls in a single combat and I only lost one base the entire time. 

I also ran the Black Coach for the first time ever and was pleasantly surprised by its utility and ability to be a tarpit. 

The list I ran was: 

Lady Olynder general (Reaping Scythe)  / Spirit Torment ( PoTFW )

6 Spirit Hosts / 10 Grimghast Reapers /4 Glaivewrath Stalkers

Black Coach

 

If we ramp up to 2k I'm looking to try something like:

Lady O general (Reaping Scythe) / Spirit Torment (PoTFW) / Dreadblade Harrow (Midnight Tome)

5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwraiths / Dolorous Guard

6 Spirit Hosts / 6 Spirit Hosts / 30 Grimghast Reapers / 10 Chainrasp Horde

Black Coach

 

I might play with that a little bit as I'd like a 4th hero but that's the current concept. I like the amount of threats it has and its versatility. 

[DionTheWanderer]

So I’m almost finished painting a 2000pt Nighthaunt army. Looking forward to using them in a game sometime once lockdown ends. Looking to expand in a vaguely LON direction, adding one unit at a time - I’m a slow painter.

This may be a dumb question, but how do I get a copy of the rules for Legion of Grief?

 

[Bayul]

8 minutes ago, DionTheWanderer said:

This may be a dumb question, but how do I get a copy of the rules for Legion of Grief?

In the Forbidden Power expansion.

[Bayul]

 So imagine a new Nighthaunt Battletome comes with AoS 3.0 this year. What would be your (reasonable) wishlist?

Across-the-board Ethereal, Flying and high Bravery should stay as signature traits of course. Additionally NH units should exploit and benefit from low enemy Bravery across all phases.

Hero Phase: Nighthaunt Wizards need access to spells like

Quote

Shroud of Terror has a casting value of 6. If successfully cast pick a enemy unit within 12” of the caster that is visible to them. Subtract D3 from the Bravery characteristics of that until your next hero phase.

or

Quote

Overwhelming Dread: At a casting value of 5, a unit within 18" loses 1 from hit rolls and 1 Bravery until your next hero phase.

It could be interesting if a wizard would get a benefit for unbinding if the enemy caster has a certain bravery.

Shooting Phase: Myrmourn Banshees should lose their roll as spell eaters and behave similar to Crypt Flayers and Tomb Banshees with something like

Quote

Death Scream: Do not use the attack sequence for an attack made with a Death Scream. Instead roll 2D6. Subtract 2 if the target unit is more than 3" from the attacking model. If the result is higher than the target unit’s Bravery characteristic, the target unit suffers a number of mortal wounds equal to the difference between its Bravery characteristic and the result.

Movement and Charge phase: Overall low enemy bravery should result in additional movement and charge for e.g. cavalry units. This way Wave of Terror could be more reliable if it depends on low enemy bravery instead of a 10+ roll.

Attack phase: Same as above. Low bravery should benefit attacks, damage and rent. 

Deployment: LoN's Gravesites should replace From the Underworld and They Come and Spectral Summons for deployment, summoning and regeneration.

Unit reworks:

– Glaivewraith Stalkers should become relevant again for example as Monster hunters with -2 Rend (like Savage Big Stabbas)
– Mortis Engine receives the NIGHTHAUNT keyword and the Ethereal trait.
– Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass is a thing again.
– Demote Dreadblade Harrows to a unit. Nighthaunt have enough heros already and the dual box is weird. Give them an ability to transport themselves and an additonal unit to each other. You'll have an actual reason to run two Dreadblade Harrows this way.
– Maybe no more stupid Black Coach levels?

[JustAsPlanned]

1 hour ago, Bayul said:

 So imagine a new Nighthaunt Battletome comes with AoS 3.0 this year. What would be your (reasonable) wishlist?

Across-the-board Ethereal, Flying and high Bravery should stay as signature traits of course. Additionally NH units should exploit and benefit from low enemy Bravery across all phases.

Hero Phase: Nighthaunt Wizards need access to spells like

or

It could be interesting if a wizard would get a benefit for unbinding if the enemy caster has a certain bravery.

Shooting Phase: Myrmourn Banshees should lose their roll as spell eaters and behave similar to Crypt Flayers and Tomb Banshees with something like

Movement and Charge phase: Overall low enemy bravery should result in additional movement and charge for e.g. cavalry units. This way Wave of Terror could be more reliable if it depends on low enemy bravery instead of a 10+ roll.

Attack phase: Same as above. Low bravery should benefit attacks, damage and rent. 

Deployment: LoN's Gravesites should replace From the Underworld and They Come and Spectral Summons for deployment, summoning and regeneration.

Unit reworks:

– Glaivewraith Stalkers should become relevant again for example as Monster hunters with -2 Rend (like Savage Big Stabbas)
– Mortis Engine receives the NIGHTHAUNT keyword and the Ethereal trait.
– Guardian of Souls with Mortality Glass is a thing again.
– Demote Dreadblade Harrows to a unit. Nighthaunt have enough heros already and the dual box is weird. Give them an ability to transport themselves and an additonal unit to each other. You'll have an actual reason to run two Dreadblade Harrows this way.
– Maybe no more stupid Black Coach levels?

I’m not too into the rules side of things, but what I’d really like is for the Mortis Engine to finally get the Nighthaunt keyword so that the SC Malignants set becomes less of a waste of money, haha

[Bayul]

11 minutes ago, JustAsPlanned said:

SC Malignants set becomes less of a waste of money, haha

GW will definitly replace this Box with a new Nighthaunt SC when Soul Wars leaves the shelves for 3.0. Malignants aren't are thing anymore.

[lare2]

3 hours ago, DionTheWanderer said:

This may be a dumb question, but how do I get a copy of the rules for Legion of Grief?

 

They're on p.167 of this thread. 

[DionTheWanderer]

Thanks - I've ordered a copy of the Forbidden Power book off Ebay.

Am I right in thinking that the only units counted as Battleline for LoG are those which are also Battleline for all other allegiances? So I'll need some skellies or lots more chainrasps to make up a legal army?