AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Tropical Ghost General]

So basically it's back to running 120 grims 😩🥱

[dmorley21]

Yikes.

I'd be upset if I currently had the opportunity to play, but don't and won't for the foreseeable future. 

Hopefully things change for the ghosts by the time I have time to play again. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

Don't worry everyone. Additional FAQ has been released that clears up everything

[lare2]

13 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I need a break. See ya around.

Shame to see you go. Really enjoyed reading your thoughts and that guide has helped me considerably. You're right, playing NH is definitely hard mode and as someone who goes for higher difficulty on computer games, I appreciate the challenge. You need hard skin to play NH. To be honest though, I played Death all of 1st edition and got used to being grossly overpowered and regularly getting tabled. 

NH will get a new battletombe. It's inevitable. For now I'll enjoy the uphill struggle and my friends will enjoy their wins 

[Guardian]

Someone on youtube correctly observed that cheap to build, as an army, is also a weak army.
Cheap = trash tier

Nighthaunt are quite cheap to get into (especially with the soul wars).

I also observe that usually pretty models are weaker since they don't need strong rules to sell them... NH are quite pretty... bam, double whammy!

Edited August 4, 2020 by Guardian

[Liquidsteel]

Not sure if that really holds up, you can put a Stonehorn army together for around £150 and it's definitely no slouch!

[Thamalys]

A few thoughts:

• @EnixLHQ comparing Nighthaunt to Dark Souls is probably the best thing I read on TGA ever - it really put a big smile on my face. Especially as a Sekiro (which is, if at all possible, even harsher) aficionado. ..
• Nighthaunt are challenging to play, but not 100% rubbish, you can still get some wins, and when you do you feel amazingly rewarded - this is why I like them. I echo @lare2's thoughts - albeit I am not entirely certain Nighthaunt will get a new dedicated battle tome, but a man can dream 
• If you had enough of the struggle, why don't you branch out into some other DEATH faction? Nighthaunt models are an excellent basis to build upon in any Legion of Nagash list and they even ally to Soulblight. I play the latter as well as Legion of Blood and I enjoy the variety. Yes, Legion of Blood is, as far as my experience goes, the most competitive choice between those three, but even then it's still a struggle against the seriously top-tier factions.
• As I have been advocating for some crazy lists, here's an idea for one where the main idea is to stack minuses to hit. Magic and shooting will still wipe out or precious ghosts , you will never call anything like this "competitive" and the Soulblight equivalent works better (because of army-wide bonuses to cast) but hey, it's an idea - perhaps some cleverer person will do something with it one day...

 

The idea is to stack as many minuses to hit as (in)humanly possible, for the ultimate opponent's feel bad experience. I feel a bit naughty today, sorry... I'd probably only run something along these lines against 27 eels or 60 berzerkers  . Anyway: Shademist (Guardian of Souls, +1 to cast) is -1 to wound, Grief Stricken (Olynder) -1 to hit, Geminids (Reikenor, +3 cast) another -1 to hit, Neferata - 2 to hit (2 CPs and her ability stacks), the Mourngul has an in-built -1 to hit as well and we have the Shards for a potential, additional -1 to hit. That rounds up at a potential -6 to hit and -1 to wound, which is batshit crazy. Of course you only need a max. of -4 to hit, but equally not all the spells/ability will kick off, so...

Ok, it's a silly list, but I felt I needed something refreshing... or:

15 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

it's back to running 120 grims 😩🥱

Yep - that'll do it, but I can't see myself painting 60 more...  

[Tropical Ghost General]

11 hours ago, Thamalys said:

Ok, it's a silly list, but I felt I needed something refreshing..

The issue with any magic based lists is that unless you are one of the magic doms (Honest Wargamer term for super strong magic armies), it's pointless building a list based around buffs caused through magic spells going off. NH aren't alone in being one of the magic subs, so having magic is OK, but at the moment there is so little point in building a list around it, even Reik is not a reliability (especially if you get the 6+ ward save and negate the +3 to cast). Chatting to my lizard playing friend tonight about his list ideas and I honestly can't think of how to deal with any of it, other than use another army 😂

[Thamalys]

9 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

it's pointless building a list based around buffs caused through magic spells going off

True... however (1.) the magic Doms are... Seraphons, Lumineth and Tzeench? "Only" three factions   of the many out there. To be fair, against those every other faction struggles anyway, no matter the list; (2.) Both Neferata's and the Mourngul's minuses do not rely on magic. Not saying the list above has any actual play... I have never tried the dynamic duo (New + Mister Gul) before, though. Against Heroes/elite units it should do some work, at least on paper, and the minuses combined with their healing make for some form of resilience I guess.

[Tropical Ghost General]

1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

Only" three factions  

don't forget to add CoS and Nagash OBR to those magic doms, plus any order army that allies in kroak. And to an extent Khorne for shutting down weak/average casting. And then the fact that a lot of people will be using one of those armies in games, especially at events you'll expect to face one of those armies in probably 2 of the 4/5 games (more if you actually do well with the spooky bedsheets).

The issue with the mourngul is it's durability. It can die in a turn very easily and the nerf to it's minus to hit (models within rather than units within) means that it needs to be in close to have any effect. Neffy is a solid choice, but the lack of a ward save on a 4+ hero with 11 wounds, is very risky. As all DEATH heroes have a ward save when taken in their allegiance, I don't understand why they don't have it when taken as an ally in another death army, I really wish they would, as it's hardly game  breaking.

To get more reliable minus to hit, replace geminids, shards and 3 SHS, for a unit of blood knights. 

Or my ultimate troll before GHB20, was Lord Ex in execution horde with miasmic blade/gryph-feather charm for minus to hit. Do 3 x 9SHs in the battalion to act as a body guard. Artefact made him -1 to hit. Battalion made him an additional -1 to hit. Look out Sir gave an additional -1 to shooting. Heroes were an additional -1 in combat due to warscroll ability. The Lord Ex was then -3 to hit in combat for heroes, -2 for standard units in combat. -3 to hit with shooting and had a 4+/5++ for mortals/6+++ward. Obviously the no ward save stacking reduces his survivability and the loss of the realm artefact reduces this as NH don't have a generic -1 to hit for both shooting and melee artefact. But I used to create the ultimate tarpit by having him as the general with RotSH for healing back the SH body guard. It's wasn't perfect as 5 wounds is still squishy but it was glorious to watch wave upon wave of dice rolls do nothing 😂

[Btimmy]

Can you ally in Arkhan the Black into NH? He is a deathlord but for some reason Warscroll builder does not show him as a valid ally. 

[Thamalys]

6 hours ago, Btimmy said:

Can you ally in Arkhan the Black into NH? He is a deathlord but for some reason Warscroll builder does not show him as a valid ally. 

Yes you can, as - according to the GHB 2020 - Deathlords are still Nighthaunt allies. To "trick" Warscroll Builder you can temporarily change the allegiance of your army (say, from Nighthaunt to e.g. Legion of Sacrament), add Arkhan the Black into your list, then switch back to the Nighthaunt allegiance. A tad bit of a hassle, but  still better than Azyr... 🙄

[Tropical Ghost General]

7 hours ago, Btimmy said:

Can you ally in Arkhan the Black into NH?

Yes, but the trouble is that as he no longer knows the spells of other DEATH wizards, his usefulness isn't what it once was. Also for the points cost your almost better looking at one of the other two main mortarch, Neffy or Mannfred, as their warscroll abilities are good (either -1 to hit or re-rolls 1s to hit and wound), plus both are much better in a fight than Arkhan, and both are slightly cheaper in points.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

Last month I played with NH vs Stormcast eternals at home.

It´s not my best game, but maybe some of you can enjoy it, I´m still learning about youtube...

 

 

[Joseph Mackay]

Went to a tournament this past weekend (here in New Zealand we’re no longer in COVID lockdowns), this is the list I took (I’m also taking it to a teams tournament this weekend coming

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King (180)
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)
- General
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether
Lord Executioner (80)
- Artefact: Slitter  
Reikenor the Grimhailer (160)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Mirror of Screaming Souls  

Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths (130)
5 x Hexwraiths (130)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)
5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)
2 x Chainghasts (70)

Behemoths
Black Coach (220)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
 

was my worse tournament result, 1-4 and last place (technically 3rd from last as 2 players dropped out/didn’t finish throughout the event)
I blame the dice I was using 😂 as my luck got progressively better throughout the weekend as I swapped out my dice

Round 1 - Starstrike vs Stormcast (Hammers Of Sigmar). This one was a friend so we grudged for round 1. I did much worse than my previous games with him over the past month. Was tabled and didn’t get any auxiliary objectives. Gotrek was the main problem, was unable to ignore him.

Round 2 - Focal Points vs Bonereapers (Null Myraid). Combats didn’t go my way (was still using the dice from the first game). Was tabled and no auxiliary objectives.

Round 3 - Total Conquest vs Ogors. Changed my dice and had a much more enjoyable game 😂 unfortunately I still lost with no auxiliary objectives but I wasn’t tabled and the score was much closer.

Round 4 - The Blades Edge vs Nighthaunt. Changed my dice and and had much better luck. I managed to do more damage than he did to me, but I was reluctant to allow him to double turn me so I always took the turns meaning he got to kill objectives and I struggled to take them. I lost but scored one auxiliary objective.

Round 5 - Forcing The Hand vs Gloomspite Gitz (troggoth list). I did way more damage to him than he did to me, and due to his low number of units he struggled with the objectives. I won but no auxiliary objectives.

moral of the story for me is to always use my black and green gw skaven dice 😂

[Gdead909]

Hello ghasts, wraiths, and banshees, I am looking at starting Nighthaunt as a break from my FEC. Wanted to stay in best grand alliance but I was wondering if you happened to have a good buy list. 
 

Is the warcry box worth picking up? Any other boxes a must have? What about our characters?

 

thanks

A Feral cannibal looking at becoming a spooky ghost

[ArgyBargy]

Hey guys,  

so ive just got my hands on 240 chainrasps. Not a nighthaunt player but has anyone ever played a list flooding the board with Chainrasp horde before? 

[Snoogens]

28 minutes ago, ArgyBargy said:

Hey guys,  

so ive just got my hands on 240 chainrasps. Not a nighthaunt player but has anyone ever played a list flooding the board with Chainrasp horde before? 

In theory it sounds really really fun to run some crazy The Condemned list with maxed out units, throwing in some extra GoSs, Chainghasts, using both Chainrasps as tarpit and damage dealer. No idea if it would work or not, movement phase would be an absolute drag though, haha..

[Sauriv]

1 hour ago, ArgyBargy said:

Hey guys,  

so ive just got my hands on 240 chainrasps. Not a nighthaunt player but has anyone ever played a list flooding the board with Chainrasp horde before? 

240 rasps?! That's 1680p 😅

Work best with some support and 320p for heroes is not that much. You will probably have a hard time covering your units with the death save, inspiring presence and/or buffs. 

With 240 rasps, you can fit a Guardian of souls (ress spell and +1 to wound), Knight of Shrouds on Eternal Steed(+1 attack for a cp) and a filler cairn wraith. 

I think that 240 rasps is a little too much but I think that 200 rasps (so you have 280p more to spend on heroes) could be doable and a quite unique list. I would say that ~60 raps are closer to the average (thats what i run at least) with 40 +10 +10. 

As for a game plan, your opponent will cry blood trying to shew through 200 rasps. And if you are first to an objective can you hold it quite easily by having so many models. The problem as i see it comes from lack of speed and initiative. Rasps are not that fast but this can be solved by hiding them and deepstrike instead. The problem then is that it's very hard for you to have low drops (battalions only include 2 units of rasps) and therefore you can seldom choose the first turn. To summarize, if you reach the objectives fast you probably win but against a mobile low drop army that reaches objectives fast and can screen of your deepstrike could be hard to face. 

[Mcthew]

On 8/3/2020 at 1:28 PM, Tropical Ghost General said:

Also, the FAQ above the WD battalions is pretty much RIP to the Forbidden Power armies

Had this discussion on another thread. LoG is still legit until Forbidden Power is FAQ'd as it is an allegiance not a warscroll or battalion.

[Greasygeek]

5 hours ago, ArgyBargy said:

Hey guys,  

so ive just got my hands on 240 chainrasps. Not a nighthaunt player but has anyone ever played a list flooding the board with Chainrasp horde before? 

I think we all are missing the real question here.. How the h.... did you get 240 Chainrasps without being insanely commited to playing Nighthaunts to begin with!? I mean, did your birthday wish go wrong and all 24 guests bought you a box of 10 Chains? 
Do your dad run the local Games Workshop factory? Are they really just M&Ms you use as Chainrasp substitutes?

Can you even tell us or will the Yakuza come after us for knowing????

😉

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Greasygeek

[Btimmy]

Yeah I mean if you don't need all of those chain rasps I would love to take some of the excess off your hands, and you definitely have excess lol 120 is the most you would ever need. 

[Chikrit]

13 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

I think we all are missing the real question here.. How the h.... did you get 240 Chainrasps without being insanely commited to playing Nighthaunts to begin with!? I mean, did your birthday wish go wrong and all 24 guests bought you a box of 10 Chains? 
Do your dad run the local Games Workshop factory? Are they really just M&Ms you use as Chainrasp substitutes?

Can you even tell us or will the Yakuza come after us for knowing????

😉

 

Easy if you live in UK or Spain and you were ready for number one of Mortal Realms. You could get that here in Spain for 48€, and give (or sell) 72 Sequitors to someone. You'd probably keep most of the 144 dice.

I stopped at 7 (plus the one in the suscription) because I felt i'd had enough with 2x40 rasps. 8€ total.

Now, it seems Aussies have that opportunity too.

[ArgyBargy]

15 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

I think we all are missing the real question here.. How the h.... did you get 240 Chainrasps without being insanely commited to playing Nighthaunts to begin with!? I mean, did your birthday wish go wrong and all 24 guests bought you a box of 10 Chains? 
Do your dad run the local Games Workshop factory? Are they really just M&Ms you use as Chainrasp substitutes?

Can you even tell us or will the Yakuza come after us for knowing????

😉

 

I bought 24 sets of the Mortal Realms magazine which just got released here in Aus. My local newsagency ordered 100 so i thought i may as well, worst comes to worse i can sell them if i dont like the army.

[ArgyBargy]

19 hours ago, Sauriv said:

240 rasps?! That's 1680p 😅

Work best with some support and 320p for heroes is not that much. You will probably have a hard time covering your units with the death save, inspiring presence and/or buffs. 

With 240 rasps, you can fit a Guardian of souls (ress spell and +1 to wound), Knight of Shrouds on Eternal Steed(+1 attack for a cp) and a filler cairn wraith. 

I think that 240 rasps is a little too much but I think that 200 rasps (so you have 280p more to spend on heroes) could be doable and a quite unique list. I would say that ~60 raps are closer to the average (thats what i run at least) with 40 +10 +10. 

As for a game plan, your opponent will cry blood trying to shew through 200 rasps. And if you are first to an objective can you hold it quite easily by having so many models. The problem as i see it comes from lack of speed and initiative. Rasps are not that fast but this can be solved by hiding them and deepstrike instead. The problem then is that it's very hard for you to have low drops (battalions only include 2 units of rasps) and therefore you can seldom choose the first turn. To summarize, if you reach the objectives fast you probably win but against a mobile low drop army that reaches objectives fast and can screen of your deepstrike could be hard to face. 

Thanks for the detailed reply. So at 200 rasps what kind of support can we then fit in. You mentioned the knight of shrouds and guardian of souls.