AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Spears]

I'd happily lose the brooch to not have to see etheral amulets on the table against spooks.

[Aaranis]

It's been a while since I've played, I had forgotten about those artefacts. Yeah I like the Pendant too, and the Tome too. I played with 3 artefacts usually, those 2 + Sword of Judgement. As you said yeah, the heroes carrying the artefacts are the problem. I wouldn't count on one of our generic Heroes to make me win if I didn't build all my list around it (like the Emperor Executioner variant that I love to hunt Heroes and Monsters). I'm not really lucky with my Magic phase and seeing the new armies that are doped on magic and dispelling it's not making me any more optimistic.

I'm eager to see the actual GHB2020 to see if the leaks are indeed correct, and if we can still use the WD's Battalions. I believe we can and that they're just not written in the leaks (if they're genuine) because of printing delays.

[Astara]

Can we expect any changes to warscroll profiles (such as buffing some units) from the GH20 or the changes are usually point cost oriented? 

 

[Greasygeek]

3 hours ago, Astara said:

Can we expect any changes to warscroll profiles (such as buffing some units) from the GH20 or the changes are usually point cost oriented? 

 

Well predicting GW paterns can be a dangerous thing to do but if the GHB 2020 changes any warscrolls it would not only be the first time in the history of the Generel Handbook* it will also happen in the FAQ section or maybe just on the app since we already officially know the contents list of the book.

*However now would be a fine time for bold warscroll changes since (almost) all factions are out. But I highly doubt it. 

Note I do know that the GHB 2017 had a updated warscroll for Grunstok Thunderes but never before more after have the GHB contained new warscrolls.

[Aaranis]

Hey all, I had a look at the GHB2020 today and can confirm the leaks are true. Concerning any datasheets changes there's no such thing in the book for any factions, if there's some they'll be in PDF.

So yeah that's all for us concerning point changes

[The_Dudemeister]

At least the Mourngul went down a whooping 10 points.

I'm interested to know how much cheaper everyone's lists are now? Most of my 2000 points lists are 30 points cheaper from 10 Hexwraiths and the GoS. So the same as a Stormcast Lord Exorcist who went down from 120 to 90. 😂

1.5% cheaper army, I take it!

Edited July 7, 2020 by The_Dudemeister

[Greasygeek]

The Mourngul dropped 10? How do we know that?

[Spears]

Not sure if it was already mentioned but the Harridan max unit discount was changed, its now a 20 point discount so you get 20 for 260.

Despite that Harridans now seem significantly better than Grimghasts if you think you can manage the 1 inch reach.

A further side effect of this is that the minimum cost to run a shrieker host is 500 points.  This gives you a lot of deepstrike flexibility and the battalion ability is likely to wreck some armies.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Spears

[Frowny]

My Longshot dream 

bladegheists going to 2 wounds and 3 attacks with a price bump to match so we have some more elite infantry and that 32mm base horde spot isn't so crowded. 

Hexwraiths gain the reroll wounds reaped like corn from grimghasts so they can actually do some damage.

Dreadblade harrows takable in units.

Would be nice to have some more elite options.

 

[EnixLHQ]

So much hate for Hexwraiths. Take the Dolorous Guard for the extra attack. Maybe All-Out Attack on them. Pretty good output if what you're looking for is mortal wounds over a sheer amount of wounds

[dmorley21]

5 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

At least the Mourngul went down a whooping 10 points.

I'm interested to know how much cheaper everyone's lists are now? Most of my 2000 points lists are 30 points cheaper from 10 Hexwraiths and the GoS. So the same as a Stormcast Lord Exorcist who went down from 120 to 90. 😂

1.5% cheaper army, I take it!

My army dropped by 50 pts. It was 1970 before so I now have 80 pts to work with. 

This is assuming Dolorous Guard remains and remains the same price. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by dmorley21
Can't type on my phone lol

[LordPrometheus]

4 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

The Mourngul dropped 10? How do we know that?

Good question. I haven't seen that listed anywhere.

Also, there's no reason for the Mourngul to be freaking 280 points. For what it does, it should be 180-200.

[The_Dudemeister]

6 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

The Mourngul dropped 10? How do we know that?

I can't find it again for the life of me. Now I'm doubting my own memory. 🤔

Honestly I hope I remembered that wrong and we're in for a surprise points drop (grasping for straws here, but yall NH players understand)

 

[EDIT]
I have now seen the GH page and Mourngul costs indeed 270 (-10) now. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by The_Dudemeister

[Greasygeek]

1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:

I can't find it again for the life of me. Now I'm doubting my own memory. 🤔

Honestly I hope I remembered that wrong and we're in for a surprise points drop (grasping for straws here, but yall NH players understand)

 

[EDIT]
I have now seen the GH page and Mourngul costs indeed 270 (-10) now. 

Yeah I saw it on FB as well

[Greasygeek]

Whats also rather interesting.

According to a leak on FB  there is a section of the matched play values in the GHB called Additional Pitched battle profiles. 
It contains a bunch of semi legal profiles. Such as GOS w. Mortality Glass.

From what is said this stuff might not be legal on the tournement scene but will be fair game in locl friendly games.

Now to me that is very good news especially as I were already planing to add the Mortality glass ghost to my anti Fyreslayers list.

[The_Dudemeister]

Interesting thing: Now I've seen the GHB page for Nighthaunt leaked in french and italian.

On the french page Kurdoss went down from 180 to 160 and Reikenor stayed the same. On the italian page, Kurdoss stayed the same but Reikenor went down 10 points. The other changes like Harridans or the lack of the new battalions are the same.

[Joseph Mackay]

12 hours ago, Frowny said:

My Longshot dream 

bladegheists going to 2 wounds and 3 attacks with a price bump to match so we have some more elite infantry and that 32mm base horde spot isn't so crowded. 

Hexwraiths gain the reroll wounds reaped like corn from grimghasts so they can actually do some damage.

Dreadblade harrows takable in units.

Would be nice to have some more elite options.

 

I’m with you on Bladegheists 100%. I don’t feel like they’re worth 90pts and they don’t feel ‘elite’ enough, they need 2 wounds. this is my opinion on a lot of elite units actually (Bladegheists, Saurus Guard, Auric Hearthguard/Hearthguard Berzerkers-before they got 2 wounds of course)

I recently added some Hexwraiths to my collection and found it quite odd that they don’t have Reaped Like Corn, making them the only scythe unit in the book without it

Dreadblade Harrows are really weird being sold in boxes of 2 but are single heroes, they probably should be changed to units

id like the Cairn Wraith and Tomb Banshee to lose the LEADER battlefield role like Grimwrath Berzerkers in Fyreslayers

a new, seperate warscroll for the clampack release Lord Executioner, make him a named character (as a side note, has anyone else noticed that he’s sold with a 32mm base but the bases document says he should be on a 40mm-likely because the Soul Wars Lord Executioner is on a 40mm)

Mortis Engine should gain the Nighthaunt keyword so that Start Collecting box actually becomes useful. I want to buy one, but as the engine is useless to us I’m just going to buy the separate boxes for Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths

[Joseph Mackay]

So I’ve played a couple of games now proxying what I think I’ll take to the teams tournament and here’s some of my thoughts
-Battleline. Originally I was running 3x3 Spirit Hosts, however I started realising that Reiknor is so much faster than the rest of my army that he either ends up hanging back and wasting his movement (and also probably being out of range for spell casting), or he rushes ahead of the army and gets his ethereal ass handed to him. So I dropped one of the Spirit Host units for Hexwraiths to keep up with him, however I found a unit of 10 a bit problematic due to the base sizes, I also ended up too focused on trying to trigger their mortal wound ability that they ended up going in different directions to Reiknor 😂
-Bladegheists. I’ve been running 2x10. I think units of 5 are too fragile and definitely not worth their points, however the base sizes have been causing me issues with units of 10. I’ve Been putting them in the Underworlds with a Spirit Torment, but the problem is when they charge there’s no room for the hero or the hero fails his charge. The unit manages to remain within range for rerolls and deathless save but they’re too far away for his reviving ability.
-Black Coach. Doesn’t seem to do much for me in combat, but I can’t see not taking it.
-The Briar Queen. Her spell is pretty good, her unit is pretty meh though especially since you can’t heal them.
-Lord Executioner. I’ve been making him my general with the reviving models command trait and artefact to make him a wizard. I think I’ll start experimenting with artefacts that buff his attacks instead as he doesn’t seem to do much for me when he gets into the fights.
-Kurdoss. Aside from the Bladegheists, he’s been my biggest damage dealer. Narratively it irritates me not making him my general (I’m strongly opposed to named characters playing second fiddle to some nobody just so you can get a command trait and artefact). In one of my games he stole all of my opponents command points 😂 but then in another he decided he didn’t feel like getting involved lol
-Reiknor. See Battleline above. He’s been a bit hit and miss, some games he kills a bunch of stuff and others he gets killed. All the named characters (minus The Briar Queen) only being 7 wounds hurts a bit.

[lare2]

43 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Narratively it irritates me not making him my general (I’m strongly opposed to named characters playing second fiddle to some nobody just so you can get a command trait and artefact).

Narratively Kurdoss can never be your general so don't feel bad about it. That's his main fluff point and his being married to Olynder, who does rule, is due to Nagash having a lark.

[Ranzou]

Good day to all!

This is the first my post here, the real reason for it - new hero creation mechanism in GHB 2020.

As for me - real problem for Nighthaunts is lack of out hero survivability. 5-7 wounds are too low even with ethereal rule.

Also only one wizard has positive modificators to cast and unbind.

So I decided to create leader which will close this problems - here it comes, The Black ArchCoach.

1)Malignant leader (12DP)

2)Weapon - great soulreach grasp (great bow) (2DP) - just to have 2d shooting attack

3)Wizard archetype with cast "Rise the Dead" (d3 wounds/models to unit)

4)Gargantian beast - our Great Big Black Coach (15DP)

Option - vicious charge (d3 MW on charge) (1DP)

5)Enhancements:

+1 save (2DP)

+1 cast and unbind (3DP)

35 DP at all => 350 pts

He will be general for Ruler of the Spirit Hosts WT and artefact Midnight Tome for one more cast and unbind.

In summary - 13 wounds, 3++ 6+++, 2 casts  with +1, 2d3 models to rise, can do some damage in close combat, can be a long range support. With Dolorous Guard is nearly unkillable.

Here is the warscroll - what do you think?

[The_Dudemeister]

3 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

Mortis Engine should gain the Nighthaunt keyword so that Start Collecting box actually becomes useful. I want to buy one, but as the engine is useless to us I’m just going to buy the separate boxes for Spirit Hosts and Hexwraiths

Mortis Engine not even being able to ally with us is highly irritating. However check out the Coven Throne. It will get 20 points cheaper and becomes more and more of a juicy addition to NH.

3 heals/resurrects, a spell to potentially bog down even the strongest units in the game and a Command Ability that's good enough that you'd want to spam it every single turn.

[El Syf]

1 hour ago, Ranzou said:

Good day to all!

This is the first my post here, the real reason for it - new hero creation mechanism in GHB 2020.

As for me - real problem for Nighthaunts is lack of out hero survivability. 5-7 wounds are too low even with ethereal rule.

Also only one wizard has positive modificators to cast and unbind.

So I decided to create leader which will close this problems - here it comes, The Black ArchCoach.

1)Malignant leader (12DP)

2)Weapon - great soulreach grasp (great bow) (2DP) - just to have 2d shooting attack

3)Wizard archetype with cast "Rise the Dead" (d3 wounds/models to unit)

4)Gargantian beast - our Great Big Black Coach (15DP)

Option - vicious charge (d3 MW on charge) (1DP)

5)Enhancements:

+1 save (2DP)

+1 cast and unbind (3DP)

35 DP at all => 350 pts

He will be general for Ruler of the Spirit Hosts WT and artefact Midnight Tome for one more cast and unbind.

In summary - 13 wounds, 3++ 6+++, 2 casts  with +1, 2d3 models to rise, can do some damage in close combat, can be a long range support. With Dolorous Guard is nearly unkillable.

Here is the warscroll - what do you think?

I wasn't going to get the generals handbook this year. That has changed

[Tropical Ghost General]

It's been a long time since I've been on this chat. 

What's everyone doing now that the WD battalions are no longer matched play legal? 

[EnixLHQ]

2 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

It's been a long time since I've been on this chat. 

What's everyone doing now that the WD battalions are no longer matched play legal? 

And why aren't they?

[Tropical Ghost General]

8 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

And why aren't they?

No points in the GHB20. Currently anything published prior to GHB that doesn't get points values in no longer matched play legal, it's what made the mortality glass guardian of souls redundant. 

It's been announced that anything published from Cities of Sigmar, or later, will get an FAQ update. And while CoS was released in early October, and the WD with the NH battalions was published in December, many have stated that this means that they'll be included in the FAQ. The issue with this is that Fyreslayers had the first WD battalions with matched play points, and that was published in June WD, so 3-4 months prior to the CoS book release. Yet Fyreslayers points in GHB20 don't have any of the WD battalions mentioned with points values, so therefore they aren't matched play legal. 

It's probably been done due to 2 reasons. The first being limited access, not everyone can access the information (at least not officially) so it creates an unfair advantage for those who have been able to access it (similar reasons to why the mortality glass wasn't given points and removed from matched play last year). The second being that certain WD faction stuff has been stupid *cough, cough, Slannesh, cough, cough*, so it's a good chance to remove a stupid content of this nature. 

And the mortality glass being given points in the compendium is a low blow. Compendium can't be included in the army even as allies, only if you take Grand Alliance rather than NH. It may be that some TOs allow it, but it's going to be solely down to the discretion of the TO and event organisers.

The other slight concern is the lack of legion of grief in the list of Death armies. Each GBH has a list of all the factions in a grand alliance, which has an updated list of the allies for each faction. They've listed all of the separate legions for legions of Nagash, of which grief is a weird step-child version of one of them, yet it's not been included. Again this might not be an issue but not being mentioned is not a good sign. 

Anyway, this is just my own musings and I am hoping that I get proved wrong.