AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Ahn-ket]

18 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Do Battalions cost extra or are they more rewards for arranging your units in such a fasion?

Noobish question sorry.

No battalion cost extra points but gave you 1 additional artifact an 1 command point plus some rules 

[kenshin620]

The "Half" starter sets are also up for previews. Those might be good if you need to fill out a few number gaps.

[Ahn-ket]

It didn't help to put the unit to min/max size because it's another 4 reapers and 5 stalkers 

[Keldaur]

28 minutes ago, Ahn-ket said:

It didn't help to put the unit to min/max size because it's another 4 reapers and 5 stalkers 

Yeah, completely forgetable imo.

[Maxo Bug]

I really love the smaller starter sets. I was, in fact, hoping for them. The medium one fits my desires perfecty, besides the GoS and the odd numbering of the Grimghasts. After all, for me at least, part of the fun is that these sets are self-sufficient, while for matched play the very existence of these sets makes it easier to find spare and single figures to complete the units.

Now that I think about it... the size for the reapers was supposed to be 10? Is this correct?

[AverageBoss]

17 minutes ago, Maxo Bug said:

I really love the smaller starter sets. I was, in fact, hoping for them. The medium one fits my desires perfecty, besides the GoS and the odd numbering of the Grimghasts. After all, for me at least, part of the fun is that these sets are self-sufficient, while for matched play the very existence of these sets makes it easier to find spare and single figures to complete the units.

Now that I think about it... the size for the reapers was supposed to be 10? Is this correct?

That is correct. Most of the units in the box are off size wise, and the few extra snap fit boxes available don't fix them.

For nighthaunt you will forever be stuck with an extra stalker you can't use (you get 5, but they come in 4s). And you get 4 Grimghasts when a minimum unit is 10.

[Maxo Bug]

1 minute ago, AverageBoss said:

That is correct. Most of the units in the box are off size wise, and the few extra snap fit boxes available don't fix them.

For nighthaunt you will forever be stuck with an extra stalker you can't use (you get 5, but they come in 4s). And you get 4 Grimghasts when a minimum unit is 10.

I was convinced the size would be 5 for the G. Reapers... 10 feels odd. 
The stalkers I don't like that much, but well... Maybe I'm still not getting the way they work, their purpose.
Moreover: looking at the warscrolls for each box... doesn't seem or feel like the scale is always tipped in the SC favor?

[AverageBoss]

11 minutes ago, Maxo Bug said:

I was convinced the size would be 5 for the G. Reapers... 10 feels odd. 
The stalkers I don't like that much, but well... Maybe I'm still not getting the way they work, their purpose.
Moreover: looking at the warscrolls for each box... doesn't seem or feel like the scale is always tipped in the SC favor?

Agreed, and they also have something like a 200 point advantage.

[Urauloth]

5 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

The "Half" starter sets are also up for previews.

Stormstrike is £25 instead of £40 for all four ETB troop kits... really glad I waited on getting those now.
e; the cover art is really damn good, too.

1 hour ago, Maxo Bug said:

The stalkers I don't like that much, but well... Maybe I'm still not getting the way they work, their purpose.

I think they're just not a very good unit, unfortunately. I'm going to use them anyway because of how much I love the minis but I don't expect fantastic results. I was hoping one of the batallions would perk them up, but it doesn't look that way.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Urauloth

[Nevar]

6 hours ago, Urauloth said:

Stormstrike is £25 instead of £40 for all four ETB troop kits... really glad I waited on getting those now.
e; the cover art is really damn good, too.

I think they're just not a very good unit, unfortunately. I'm going to use them anyway because of how much I love the minis but I don't expect fantastic results. I was hoping one of the batallions would perk them up, but it doesn't look that way.

In Nighthaunt, if you roll a 10+ on a charge roll you immediately get to attack as if it is the combat phase out of normal turn order.  Then you can still be selected to fight again during the fight phase, meaning if you roll a 10+ to charge you effectively get the effects of the Danse Macabre spell from LoN for every unit that rolls a 10+ charge.  Keep in mind this does not require that you move 10+", only that you roll that high.

Most units will only have a 1/6 chance of getting this effect before being locked in combat and grinding away in a melee.

Glaivewraith Stalkers get bonuses to charge, and if they have a drum they can fallback and charge again.  This means Glaivewraiths not only keep their charge bonus on all of your turns and can use their fall back to charge other more important units or penetrate deeper into enemy lines... but they can also fish for 10+ charge rolls every turn.  So you will get between 4-5 attempts to get a 10+ charge over the course of the game assuming they survive all the battle rounds.

Their attacks are not too terrible looking on their stat line so they are not likely to draw much attention, but as someone who played Pheonix Temple for a long while I can tell you range 2"  hitting on 3 wounding on 3 with no rend and one damage will pile on wounds faster than people think.  My Pheonix Guard had almost the same offensive capabilities and they could drag down almost anything with the sheer number of saves they forced on targets.

I am not saying the Glaivewraiths are amazing, but they are a lot better than their statline would have you believe right away.  At least in Nighthaunt, they are probably not worth it in LoN, but in their proper Allegiance they are cheaper version of the Bladegeists that you can add in for hero hunting and double combat phase fishing.

[I_usually_just_lurk]

What are people’s thoughts on making Lady Olynder your general?

Her Command Ability is very nice: bring back one slain model to each summonable unit within 12’’. Can only be used if she’s your general. I used her in a proxy game and it’s nice, but not overwhelming (if you have lots of units, you could assume they’re smaller units, hence easier to wipe altogether). I liked it for my 2 units of Spirit Hosts.

But, she’s a named character, so your army goes without a Command Trait. And it seems that we have access to a trait that’s similar to her ability: bring back D3 slain models to a summonable unit within 9’’.

I’m trying to figure out what’s best between using Olynder as a general vs. a Guardian of Souls with that trait. Advantage of the GoS is that you’re not burning your command points to rez models, and you can potentially return more models to that one unit that really needs it (on top of his spell, if it goes off).

Thoughts?

Edited July 2, 2018 by I_usually_just_lurk

[Nevar]

2 minutes ago, I_usually_just_lurk said:

What are people’s thoughts on making Lady Olynder your general?

Her Command Ability is very nice: bring back one slain model to each summonable unit within 12’’. Can only be used if she’s your general. I used her in a proxy game and it’s nice, but not overwhelming (if you have lots of units, you could assume they’re smaller units, hence easier to wipe altogether). I liked it for my 2 units of Spirit Hosts  

But, she’s a named character, so your army goes without a Command Trait. And it seems that we have access to a trait that’s similar to her ability: bring back D3 slain models to a summonable unit within 9’’.

I’m trying to figure out what’s best between using Olynder as a general vs. a Guardian of Souls with that trait. Advantage of the GoS is that you’re not burning your command points to rez models, and you can potentially return more models to that one unit that really needs it (on top of his spell, if it goes off).

Thoughts?

I love her model.  I love her abilities.  I will likely never use her in a list.

She is cheap for what she does and is very good so this is not an inditement of her as a unit.  It's just her Command Ability like you point out requires a command point to bring back models.  Key word is models, so it is amazing if you have a swarm of Spirit Hosts, and your opponent is dumb enough to not focus their fire on one unit at a time.  With the new rules we can kind of control that because they no longer have the option to not pile in and fight, but our opponents can also just fall back if they think they can't do more than kill a spirit host or two they know you will just replace.  It is alright on Hexwraiths as they are 2 wound models, but she is not really fast enough to keep up with a headlong cavalry charge.

Lady Olynder is at her best up in the front lines of a massive scrum dealing mortal wounds out to multiple enemy units and keeping as many friendly units inside her bubble.  The problem is the units best at that kind of fighting are Chainrasps, Grimghasts, Spirit Hosts, Bladegeists, Harridans, etc.  Nearly all of those are 1 wound models.  Returning 1 of them is not terrible, but is it worth a command point?  If you have a bunch of under strength Spirit Hosts, the answer is heck yeah!  If you have a bunch of dead Chainrasps or Grimghasts? No, not really.  You probably want to use the Command Point on your mKoS or someone else.

She is still awesome doing what she does, but I would not use her as my General, and since I will be playing mainly a speedy list I will be relying on the mKoS and The Grimhailer most likely.

[I_usually_just_lurk]

13 minutes ago, Nevar said:

I love her model.  I love her abilities.  I will likely never use her in a list.

She is cheap for what she does and is very good so this is not an inditement of her as a unit.  It's just her Command Ability like you point out requires a command point to bring back models.  Key word is models, so it is amazing if you have a swarm of Spirit Hosts, and your opponent is dumb enough to not focus their fire on one unit at a time.  With the new rules we can kind of control that because they no longer have the option to not pile in and fight, but our opponents can also just fall back if they think they can't do more than kill a spirit host or two they know you will just replace.  It is alright on Hexwraiths as they are 2 wound models, but she is not really fast enough to keep up with a headlong cavalry charge.

Lady Olynder is at her best up in the front lines of a massive scrum dealing mortal wounds out to multiple enemy units and keeping as many friendly units inside her bubble.  The problem is the units best at that kind of fighting are Chainrasps, Grimghasts, Spirit Hosts, Bladegeists, Harridans, etc.  Nearly all of those are 1 wound models.  Returning 1 of them is not terrible, but is it worth a command point?  If you have a bunch of under strength Spirit Hosts, the answer is heck yeah!  If you have a bunch of dead Chainrasps or Grimghasts? No, not really.  You probably want to use the Command Point on your mKoS or someone else.

She is still awesome doing what she does, but I would not use her as my General, and since I will be playing mainly a speedy list I will be relying on the mKoS and The Grimhailer most likely.

Very insightful, thank you. 

I’m trying to design a 1k list for a casual environment (basement games, occasional FLGS tourney). This is what I have so far, barring traits and artefacts:

 

- Guardian of Souls (general)

- Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

- Spirit Torment

- 2x Chainghasts

- 10x Bladegheist Revenants

- 3x Spirit Hosts

- 3x Spirit Hosts

 

Pretty straightforward: Spirit Torment for healing and his buff; Chainghasts to spread that buff and for some shooting (albeit with only 2 models it’s minimal); Bladegheists for the synergy with the Spirit Torment and Chainghasts (RR to hit); Spirit Hosts to deepstrike, get objectives, flank, etc. and teleport back if wounded / needed. Olynder is a Drycha equivalent, GoS is there to heal and would either take the +3 move Artefact or the addtl. 3 wounds healed lantern.

Would this work? It feels a bit top-heavy...

[Nevar]

12 minutes ago, I_usually_just_lurk said:

Very insightful, thank you. 

I’m trying to design a 1k list for a casual environment (basement games, occasional FLGS tourney). This is what I have so far, barring traits and artefacts:

 

- Guardian of Souls (general)

- Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

- Spirit Torment

- 2x Chainghasts

- 10x Bladegheist Revenants

- 3x Spirit Hosts

- 3x Spirit Hosts

 

Pretty straightforward: Spirit Torment for healing and his buff; Chainghasts to spread that buff and for some shooting (albeit with only 2 models it’s minimal); Bladegheists for the synergy with the Spirit Torment and Chainghasts (RR to hit); Spirit Hosts to deepstrike, get objectives, flank, etc. and teleport back if wounded / needed. Olynder is a Drycha equivalent, GoS is there to heal and would either take the +3 move Artefact or the addtl. 3 wounds healed lantern.

Would this work? It feels a bit top-heavy...

I would say you were low on bodies.

For objective running Hexwraiths will do better than Spirit Hosts, as they are naturally much faster and will have more numbers for contesting objectives against other small objective running units.  Spirit Hosts are three guys, 9 wounds.  Hexwraiths are 5 guys, 10 wounds.  Spirit Hosts have 18 attacks, Hexwraiths have 10 good attacks plus a bunch of horse attacks.  They will likely do similar damage as the Spirit Hosts are relying on 6's but Hexwraiths have generally good attacks and can mortal wound on 6's.

Also, I love the Bladegeists and they will likely do alright, but again, they are low on bodies.  With only 10 you run the risk of them all being destroyed before you can revive them with the Guardian of Souls.  They are 1 wound unless I am crazy, and on a 4+ that means they will only save against half the wounds coming in.  Someone causing five or six unsaved wounds won't bother you because the GoS can easily bring them all back, but if they focus their damage they can likely remove your Bladegeists.

That lantern on the GoS is amazing since you can literally return 2d6+3 models a turn, but you have to have a unit still there to target.  You would be better with a Chainrasp horde or barring that a larger unit of Bladegeists.  Without mathhammer I can't tell you exactly where the breaking point is, but your GoS will make people cry if you have a unit they can't kill because he always brings back minimum five bodies a turn on his own.

If you do that he will also become even larger of a threat and draw more attention away from Lady Olynder.

Right now if I was playing against your list, I would focus on destroying your Bladegeists, then Lady Olynder, and ignore your GoS entirely.  The reason being is if I destroy whole units, your GoS becomes nothing but a wizard with a fancy lamp.

[Nuradin]

9 minutes ago, Nevar said:

I would say you were low on bodies.

For objective running Hexwraiths will do better than Spirit Hosts, as they are naturally much faster and will have more numbers for contesting objectives against other small objective running units.  Spirit Hosts are three guys, 9 wounds.  Hexwraiths are 5 guys, 10 wounds.  Spirit Hosts have 18 attacks, Hexwraiths have 10 good attacks plus a bunch of horse attacks.  They will likely do similar damage as the Spirit Hosts are relying on 6's but Hexwraiths have generally good attacks and can mortal wound on 6's.

Also, I love the Bladegeists and they will likely do alright, but again, they are low on bodies.  With only 10 you run the risk of them all being destroyed before you can revive them with the Guardian of Souls.  They are 1 wound unless I am crazy, and on a 4+ that means they will only save against half the wounds coming in.  Someone causing five or six unsaved wounds won't bother you because the GoS can easily bring them all back, but if they focus their damage they can likely remove your Bladegeists.

That lantern on the GoS is amazing since you can literally return 2d6+3 models a turn, but you have to have a unit still there to target.  You would be better with a Chainrasp horde or barring that a larger unit of Bladegeists.  Without mathhammer I can't tell you exactly where the breaking point is, but your GoS will make people cry if you have a unit they can't kill because he always brings back minimum five bodies a turn on his own.

If you do that he will also become even larger of a threat and draw more attention away from Lady Olynder.

Right now if I was playing against your list, I would focus on destroying your Bladegeists, then Lady Olynder, and ignore your GoS entirely.  The reason being is if I destroy whole units, your GoS becomes nothing but a wizard with a fancy lamp.

How many hexwraiths would you bring for a cav list? Somehow i am toying with the idea of two units of 10 and then a blob of chainrasps.

I like bladegheists so would Love to use those aswell, but not sure there would be enough points, since I also like chainghasts. Havent done much theorycrafting so dont really know Good Spirit torments and chainghasts are in a cav list.

I also like the ideal of having cav and dropping the slower units with allegiance ability (if that is confirmed?) Just to surprise My enemy and forcing him to Keep on His toes!

Edited July 2, 2018 by Nuradin

[Nevar]

4 minutes ago, Nuradin said:

How many hexwraiths would you bring for a cav list? Somehow i am toying with the ideal of two units of 10 and then a blob of chainrasps.

I like bladegheists so would Love tonuse those aswell, bit mot sure there would be enough point, since I also like chainghasts. Havent done much theorycrafting so dont really know Good Spirit torments and chainghasts are in a cav list.

I also like the ideal of having cav and dropping the slower units with allegiance ability (if that is confirmed?) Just to surprise My enemy and forcing him to Keep on His toes!

Well, it depends what you mean by a Cavalry list, and what the rules are for battalions.  I have never used a battalion, so the question I would ask before making those choices are can I bring duplicates of the same warscroll battalion?

I have been using one massive 15 horse blob of Hexwraiths in my Nighthaunt list for the past year or so.  They are especially fast with the Pendant of the Fell Wind, and I would use my KoS to rocket them forward into the mid field on turn 1 while also dropping in Spirit Hosts all around the enemy.  The 15 Hexwraiths serve multiple purposes, if they pass over something they can cause mortal wounds in the movement phase, so they project a 15" no go zone around them.  They are also fast enough that they can  charge almost anything on the table from that position, and they can deny a lot of objectives or mass for a single heavy charge.  I like them like this against my local meta, because I have a Stormcast player who uses the Vanguard Chamber and they can literally teleport around the table and also outflank to the board edges.  Since I had to chase down flighty enemies like that, a massive blob of fast cav allowed me to catch ellusive targets like that in any direction with overwhelming force.

However, I also found that when charging into an actual solid enemy force that did not try to flee all the time, the massive size of this unit was a hinderance.  It is difficult to get the majority into combat, terrain causes problems, and with the pile in rules they are subject to being stretched out between different enemy units.  With the new Allegiance abilities, I would actually recommend them in minimum 5 man units.  This gives you more unit champions (free attack) and allows you to spread out and react to more things.  They can still all pile into one target if you need them to, or they can go scatter to claim objectives or tie down more enemy units without getting stretched by the pile in.  Likewise, our most powerful Allegiance ability is the free combat when rolling a 10+ on the charge, and with three units of 5, you get three charge roll attempts making it more likely you will get to cause damage before the actual fight phase.

IF you can take the same warcroll bat twice, two of the cavalry battalions would make for a fearsome Cav list, and a mKoS with the Pendant will mean even the guys you deploy on the table and not in the underworld will be ontop of the enemy turn 1.

[Keldaur]

1 hour ago, I_usually_just_lurk said:

Very insightful, thank you. 

I’m trying to design a 1k list for a casual environment (basement games, occasional FLGS tourney). This is what I have so far, barring traits and artefacts:

 

- Guardian of Souls (general)

- Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

- Spirit Torment

- 2x Chainghasts

- 10x Bladegheist Revenants

- 3x Spirit Hosts

- 3x Spirit Hosts

 

Pretty straightforward: Spirit Torment for healing and his buff; Chainghasts to spread that buff and for some shooting (albeit with only 2 models it’s minimal); Bladegheists for the synergy with the Spirit Torment and Chainghasts (RR to hit); Spirit Hosts to deepstrike, get objectives, flank, etc. and teleport back if wounded / needed. Olynder is a Drycha equivalent, GoS is there to heal and would either take the +3 move Artefact or the addtl. 3 wounds healed lantern.

Would this work? It feels a bit top-heavy...

Low on bodies. You are not going to outscore anyone but the most terribly built lists.

I will never understand this need to treat battlelines as a tax. 2x3 units of spirit hosts are much worse than 1x6 due to how buffs, combat and revival works.

Get a decent core, around unit and synergies, and then work from there. Don't just add units and then see how you can fulfill the battleline restrictions.

For example

2x6 spirit hosts + 1 Spirit torment  + 2 chainghasts are rock solid at 1k. 680 points.

Add in a mage 820 points

Now you have 180 points to round up the list.

But to be honest, i would get 2 spirit torments before the chainghasts, they are so good.

Alternatively you can switch one of the spirit host units to chainrasps or use the 180 points for chainrasps (leaving 20 for a endless spell or just triumph, which isn't bad with the spirit hosts),  which are better at screening (and we fly which is awesome when you can fly over your screen to charge with the unit you want).

Edited July 2, 2018 by Keldaur

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah I agree. If you don't like your Battleline, you really shouldn't be playing the faction. The Battleline are your core, you should really build around supporting them and getting them onto objectives.

[I_usually_just_lurk]

14 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

Yeah I agree. If you don't like your Battleline, you really shouldn't be playing the faction. The Battleline are your core, you should really build around supporting them and getting them onto objectives.

I agree with the comments on battleline selection and not treating them as tax, but please don’t assume that is my intent  I am simply trying to build a 1k list around a unit of Bladegheists, which are not battleline. I own Spirit Hosts and like playing with them, so it was kind of a natural. And I do want to play with Olynder, she was fun to play with in my test game.

I agree with you guys’ comments on the size of the Bladegheist unit though. Very valid points.

I will play test the following list:

 

- Guardian of Souls (general)

- Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

- Spirit Torment

- 10x Chainrasp Hordes

- 15x Bladegheist Revenants

- 3x Spirit Hosts

 

As an aside, I think people will misuse the Chainghasts / Spirit Torment 12’’ bubble to reroll  hits of 1... both warscrolls mention “for units wholly within 12’’ ”. I don’t think you’re meant to use the Chainghasts to create arbitrary “shapes” of that bubble — RAW, you couldn’t cover a large unit by having part of them covered by the Spirit Torment and part by the Chainghasts, for instance. They might FAQ it. 

[Nevar]

4 minutes ago, I_usually_just_lurk said:

I agree with the comments on battleline selection and not treating them as tax, but please don’t assume that is my intent  I am simply trying to build a 1k list around a unit of Bladegheists, which are not battleline. I own Spirit Hosts and like playing with them, so it was kind of a natural. And I do want to play with Olynder, she was fun to play with in my test game.

I agree with you guys’ comments on the size of the Bladegheist unit though. Very valid points.

I will play test the following list:

 

- Guardian of Souls (general)

- Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

- Spirit Torment

- 10x Chainrasp Hordes

- 15x Bladegheist Revenants

- 3x Spirit Hosts

So my added feedback here is, maybe leave the Bladegeists at x10 and put the extra points into the chainrasp horde.

I know, I know, the bladegeists are so much cooler and sweet.  However, now you have swapped your problems a bit.  The beefier unit of Bladegeists are now the guys in your list that you want in the thick of it and also taking the brunt of enemy damage.  The extra bodies means they will likely survive longer than the 10 chainrasps, especially since the chainrasps have 5+ saves.

That is the difficulty though, because that means your Bladegeists are also the ones who will lose the most power from casualties as your opponent will 100% choose to fight against them first to try and kill some greatsword guys.

Again, example as if I were your opponent.  I would ignore the chainrasps entirely, or focus on wiping them out in one turn.  10 Chainrasps will not do much to me other than bog down my troops, and only if I fail to wipe them out.  It will be even easier to wipe them out than the 10 Bladegeists with their 5+ save.  Then I would focus on wiping out Lady Olynder and just try to out score you.  The bladegeists can disengage to relocate, and they are fast, you don't want them functioning as your main battleline, and I use the term battleline here not as the organization chart but in the battle sense.  If they are making up your center, you leave slow chainrasps to try and wander over to objectives, and if there is a need to have them relocate, they will have to disengage from the main enemy forces suddenly leaving your enemy free to act as well.

What you want to do is tie down your enemies forces with an immovable chainrasp blob (thanks to the GoS's heals) which lets Lady Olynder sit on them causing mortal wounds, while your Bladegeists are free to attack where and when you need them to, disengaging and re-engaging to where they can do the most good, including just grabbing objectives late game, jumping over the enemy lines to assassinate the enemy general/heroes, etc.  Bladegeists are a hammer unit, not an anvil unit, and you seem to be putting them into that role.

This also saves you actual money, as the Bladegeists will be in boxes of 5 or 10 most likely and the Chainrasps come as a set of 20 already.  Less purchases for you.  I  think at 1000 points 20 Chainrasps are enough, and I would again highly recommend Hexwraiths over the Spirit Hosts.  I own 16 Spirit Hosts myself, so I love them also, but you need numbers when claiming objectives and Spirit Hosts only count as three models even if they fight like more.  Hexwraiths are also still Battle Line so you won't lose out on any other units.

[Nuradin]

2 hours ago, Nevar said:

Well, it depends what you mean by a Cavalry list, and what the rules are for battalions.  I have never used a battalion, so the question I would ask before making those choices are can I bring duplicates of the same warscroll battalion?

I have been using one massive 15 horse blob of Hexwraiths in my Nighthaunt list for the past year or so.  They are especially fast with the Pendant of the Fell Wind, and I would use my KoS to rocket them forward into the mid field on turn 1 while also dropping in Spirit Hosts all around the enemy.  The 15 Hexwraiths serve multiple purposes, if they pass over something they can cause mortal wounds in the movement phase, so they project a 15" no go zone around them.  They are also fast enough that they can  charge almost anything on the table from that position, and they can deny a lot of objectives or mass for a single heavy charge.  I like them like this against my local meta, because I have a Stormcast player who uses the Vanguard Chamber and they can literally teleport around the table and also outflank to the board edges.  Since I had to chase down flighty enemies like that, a massive blob of fast cav allowed me to catch ellusive targets like that in any direction with overwhelming force.

However, I also found that when charging into an actual solid enemy force that did not try to flee all the time, the massive size of this unit was a hinderance.  It is difficult to get the majority into combat, terrain causes problems, and with the pile in rules they are subject to being stretched out between different enemy units.  With the new Allegiance abilities, I would actually recommend them in minimum 5 man units.  This gives you more unit champions (free attack) and allows you to spread out and react to more things.  They can still all pile into one target if you need them to, or they can go scatter to claim objectives or tie down more enemy units without getting stretched by the pile in.  Likewise, our most powerful Allegiance ability is the free combat when rolling a 10+ on the charge, and with three units of 5, you get three charge roll attempts making it more likely you will get to cause damage before the actual fight phase.

IF you can take the same warcroll bat twice, two of the cavalry battalions would make for a fearsome Cav list, and a mKoS with the Pendant will mean even the guys you deploy on the table and not in the underworld will be ontop of the enemy turn 1.

Too me it feels as if 5 hexwraiths are a bit too squishy to do much, especially if they get tied down in a fight. But then again I haven't played with them so you have a lot more experience than me in this matter! 
However with 5 man units you can have two units running together and achieve the same objective as with having 10 of them, cause your point about having more charges is the key I think. With a fast list and with Nighthaunt in general it seems the charge is quite important and can quickly turn the tables on a match.
However, unmodified 10 is not exactly easy to get. Not even unmodified 9 is that easy, so I'm not having a hard time thinking it's a good idea to build a list around it.
That leaves the speed, which is key number 2. And with the black coach and a few units of hexwraiths and mKoS you should be able to redeploy pretty quickly around the map where you are needed the most. I'm just a bit worried that the hexwraiths will die too quickly.

What complementing heroes would be good for such a list? mKoS or Reikenor is according to me pretty obvious.. GoS seems to have a role to play in order to heal your units, but he will have a hard time keeping up with the quick army. Same with Spirit torment, however it gets more much flexible with chainghasts. Chainghasts can also cause some damage from ranged, so I still kinda like them together with a spirit torment.

[Nevar]

1 minute ago, Nuradin said:

Too me it feels as if 5 hexwraiths are a bit too squishy to do much, especially if they get tied down in a fight. But then again I haven't played with them so you have a lot more experience than me in this matter! 
However with 5 man units you can have two units running together and achieve the same objective as with having 10 of them, cause your point about having more charges is the key I think. With a fast list and with Nighthaunt in general it seems the charge is quite important and can quickly turn the tables on a match.
However, unmodified 10 is not exactly easy to get. Not even unmodified 9 is that easy, so I'm not having a hard time thinking it's a good idea to build a list around it.
That leaves the speed, which is key number 2. And with the black coach and a few units of hexwraiths and mKoS you should be able to redeploy pretty quickly around the map where you are needed the most. I'm just a bit worried that the hexwraiths will die too quickly.

What complementing heroes would be good for such a list? mKoS or Reikenor is according to me pretty obvious.. GoS seems to have a role to play in order to heal your units, but he will have a hard time keeping up with the quick army. Same with Spirit torment, however it gets more much flexible with chainghasts. Chainghasts can also cause some damage from ranged, so I still kinda like them together with a spirit torment.

Well the cavalry Warscroll Battalion is minimum x2 units of Hexwraiths, 1-2 Dreadblade Harrows, and a Black Coach.  That warscroll bat gives you +1 Command Point, +1 Artifact, and unmodified 9+ charge attack out of sequence.

If I can take two of them, I would and use a Dreadblade Harrow, 2x5 Hexwraiths, and a Blackcoach twice.  That gives me x2 Dreadblades, x20 Hexwraiths, x2 Black Coaches, x3 Artifacts, +2 Command Points, 9+ unmod charges for extra attacks.  Then I would use mKoS with Pendant of the Fell Wind to give it all +3" speed.  That is a 15" standard move on your cavalry.  I would deploy all of that, and then place the Spirit Torment and Guardian of Souls in the underworld.  Maybe even some Chainghasts I dunno.

Then you fly up the board making charge attempts across the enemy line or seizing the midline objectives either way, and then summon up the Spirit Torment and GoS up into the front line where they will be in range.  This keeps them from having to keep up with the cavalry.

If I can't take more than one copy of the battalion I would just move all of that into one battalion and drop a Black Coach to replace it with something else.  Dreadblades can reportedly teleport around the board to seize objectives or be where you need them most.  mKoS giving more attacks to Hexwraiths is good when they do MW on 6s, but if I was in one Battalion I might buff up a unit of Hexwraiths to 10 man and keep two 5 man ones for the wings of the army.  This way the mKoS's +1 attack has more impact on 10 guys.

You could even throw Lady Olynder in or Bladegeists or the like since you have space in the underworld and they can teleport into the fight in range once your cavalry has locked down the board and setup the battle lines further up the field.

The idea is, the more table you control, the easier you can score objectives, especially with the Harrows who can teleport each turn to new locations and grab uncontested ones, or 5 man Hexwraiths can shoot off to side objectives from the main fight if you want.

[Nuradin]

17 minutes ago, Nevar said:

Well the cavalry Warscroll Battalion is minimum x2 units of Hexwraiths, 1-2 Dreadblade Harrows, and a Black Coach.  That warscroll bat gives you +1 Command Point, +1 Artifact, and unmodified 9+ charge attack out of sequence.

If I can take two of them, I would and use a Dreadblade Harrow, 2x5 Hexwraiths, and a Blackcoach twice.  That gives me x2 Dreadblades, x20 Hexwraiths, x2 Black Coaches, x3 Artifacts, +2 Command Points, 9+ unmod charges for extra attacks.  Then I would use mKoS with Pendant of the Fell Wind to give it all +3" speed.  That is a 15" standard move on your cavalry.  I would deploy all of that, and then place the Spirit Torment and Guardian of Souls in the underworld.  Maybe even some Chainghasts I dunno.

Then you fly up the board making charge attempts across the enemy line or seizing the midline objectives either way, and then summon up the Spirit Torment and GoS up into the front line where they will be in range.  This keeps them from having to keep up with the cavalry.

If I can't take more than one copy of the battalion I would just move all of that into one battalion and drop a Black Coach to replace it with something else.  Dreadblades can reportedly teleport around the board to seize objectives or be where you need them most.  mKoS giving more attacks to Hexwraiths is good when they do MW on 6s, but if I was in one Battalion I might buff up a unit of Hexwraiths to 10 man and keep two 5 man ones for the wings of the army.  This way the mKoS's +1 attack has more impact on 10 guys.

You could even throw Lady Olynder in or Bladegeists or the like since you have space in the underworld and they can teleport into the fight in range once your cavalry has locked down the board and setup the battle lines further up the field.

The idea is, the more table you control, the easier you can score objectives, especially with the Harrows who can teleport each turn to new locations and grab uncontested ones, or 5 man Hexwraiths can shoot off to side objectives from the main fight if you want.

Something tells me you can only use a battalion once! Never seen any list use a battalion twice, but that might just be because there hasn't been a battalion worth taking twice.

Hmm, I kinda like charging up with hexwraiths and mKoS and drop Lady Olynder in the middle of it to dish out mortal wounds and give +1 to hit on the the really tough targets. Are hexwraiths +6 or unmodified 6? Seems warscrolls aren't updated on the website, so some say unmodified and some say +6 for frightful touch (one would assume they will all change to unmodified). 

I really need a list of points or an updated army builder to really get a good overview on what is possible

Are objectives counted at the start of a turn? or at the start of a players turn? Meaning if I teleport with a harrow in my turn (I am going second this turn). Will I get points for that objective if I happen to go second the turn after? Thus giving my opponent the chance to remove the harrow from the objective?

So many questions for a rookie like me

edit: Posted in rules questions about the battalion thing. Let's hope for an answer!

Edited July 2, 2018 by Nuradin

[Keldaur]

16 hours ago, I_usually_just_lurk said:

I agree with the comments on battleline selection and not treating them as tax, but please don’t assume that is my intent  I am simply trying to build a 1k list around a unit of Bladegheists, which are not battleline. I own Spirit Hosts and like playing with them, so it was kind of a natural. And I do want to play with Olynder, she was fun to play with in my test game.

I agree with you guys’ comments on the size of the Bladegheist unit though. Very valid points.

I will play test the following list:

 

- Guardian of Souls (general)

- Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief

- Spirit Torment

- 10x Chainrasp Hordes

- 15x Bladegheist Revenants

- 3x Spirit Hosts

 

As an aside, I think people will misuse the Chainghasts / Spirit Torment 12’’ bubble to reroll  hits of 1... both warscrolls mention “for units wholly within 12’’ ”. I don’t think you’re meant to use the Chainghasts to create arbitrary “shapes” of that bubble — RAW, you couldn’t cover a large unit by having part of them covered by the Spirit Torment and part by the Chainghasts, for instance. They might FAQ it. 

I understand that most of the time is unconscious, but it tends to happen with new releases since we all want to play all the shiny new stuff, but you have to look at your list and check how you are going to score objectives afterwards. I mean, seriously, you say you aren't doing it, and you are pretty much spending 200 points in your battleline... again.

About the latest list, i would lower the bladegheists to 10, and increase the chainrasp to 20. I would also switch the guardian of souls for to increase the spirit hosts to 6, since you are set on playing Olynder.

The Guardian of souls spell is very good, but magic (buff, damage or debuff) is way more inconsitent now than it was before due to the new dispel range, if you already have ways to unbinding 2 spells per turn at 1000 points you should be fine. You can always equip the spirit torment with an artifact to make him a wizard if you wish to get a second source of dispells. If i am not wrong that list would be 940 points, from where you could get a command point or an endless spell (cog, geminids, suffocating would be some of my choices, suffocating works good with olynder to get -2 bravery on units and then use the aura scream).

Edited July 3, 2018 by Keldaur

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Reikenor the Grimhailer dont know what spell to give him yet
10 Bladegheist Revenants
10 Bladegheist Revenants 
Shroud Guard 
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed : General with ruler of the spirit hosts and  pendant of the fell wind
Guardian of Souls with soul cage and relic lantern returning an extra 3 wounds/models
Guardian of Souls with shademist
Dreadblade Harrow 
20 Grimghast Reapers 
20 Grimghast Reapers
20 Chainrasp Hordes 
Chronomantic Cogs

1950pts

ill have to test it but the general idea is the 2 units of bladegheists will deep strike in 9" away from a unit i want dead. Reikenor will add +3 to cast and get the cogs off and then blitz up to the bladegheists to give them the 5+++ deathless save. 

The 2 units of reapers will be speeding across the board at movement 13" to threaten objectives and punish enemy units. The lone squad of chainrasps will guard home objective, for a few more pts than spirit hosts i get 11 more wounds and i can regain them easier. 

Dreadblade does what a dreadblade does and teleports everywhere to nab uncontested objectives. 

The Guardian of Souls with the relic lantern is there to primarily  regain either bladegheists or grimghasts with help off the the Knight of Shrouds. The second one is there to provide another caster, i may switch him out for some myrmourn banshees, ill see how it goes.

 

*Ive chosen to forgo the Spirit Torment for this list as i should be getting rerolls vs most things for the Bladegheists and Grimghasts.*

Edited July 2, 2018 by Ekrund Oath Splitters