AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Dredgejosh]

9 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Good news, everyone! My guide is updated with list building strategies and a few example lists!

Go and tear it apart!

I love the lists. I'll be trying out the Knight Bomb this week. If I don't like it i'll be doing the Other bomb list. You are awesome for doing this thank you.! I see Knighthaunt are all the White Dwarf Battalions now. I assume the others are kinda dead at the moment? 

[EnixLHQ]

51 minutes ago, Dredgejosh said:

I love the lists. I'll be trying out the Knight Bomb this week. If I don't like it i'll be doing the Other bomb list. You are awesome for doing this thank you.! I see Knighthaunt are all the White Dwarf Battalions now. I assume the others are kinda dead at the moment? 

No, but the White Dwarf ones are strong. I expect to see mixes as the tournament scene gets going.

[Thamalys]

15 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Good news, everyone! My guide is updated with list building strategies and a few example lists!

Go and tear it apart!

Really thorough - well done! Excellent for beginners, granted, but quite useful for scruffy veterans as well!

Two comments:

1. No mention of the Mourngul? Some will say it’s overcosted, and maybe it is.... but: Spirit Torment + Mourngul is a very durable combo (for Nighthaunt standards) with some surprising punch as well (for Nighthaunt standard). 6” of -1 to hit, rerolling ones, often healing 2D3, a neat blend of damage 2 attacks, minus 2 rend and mortal wounds as well. Plus, it’s the biggest ghost of them all...
2. Everything you wrote about using our movement shenanigans is very true. What is also very true, sadly, is the fact that Nighthaunt have almost zero shooting. The strength of factions such as Seraphons, Cities, Stormcast Eternals, Overlords... is that not only they can move stuff around with ease - but once they do, they don’t even need to make the charge. Their Razordons, Hurricanums, Ballistas and Ironclads will happily get 9” away from you and shoot most units off the table. We? We need the charge, especially against experienced opponents that know how to zone us out - and often they have the bodies to do it. Wave of terror is elusive, the Cogs are a big investment... yes, you really need the dice to help you out with our ghosts, no matter the extent to which you are a Creed...

Meanwhile, I have been experimenting with the Dolorous Guard elsewhere (Legion of Blood), because a very tough Olynder is scary, sure, but a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon with 20 wounds of Hexwraiths around is even scarier... this battalion is phenomenal for Death in general, coming in at exactly 400 pts worth of allies... again, is somehow sad that the best bits of the Nighthaunts often work much better in some other splinter of the Death GA.

It’s a start, though, and your guide captures a lot of what we can do, so... kudos to you!

[Dredgejosh]

1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

Really thorough - well done! Excellent for beginners, granted, but quite useful for scruffy veterans as well!

Two comments:

1. No mention of the Mourngul? Some will say it’s overcosted, and maybe it is.... but: Spirit Torment + Mourngul is a very durable combo (for Nighthaunt standards) with some surprising punch as well (for Nighthaunt standard). 6” of -1 to hit, rerolling ones, often healing 2D3, a neat blend of damage 2 attacks, minus 2 rend and mortal wounds as well. Plus, it’s the biggest ghost of them all...
2. Everything you wrote about using our movement shenanigans is very true. What is also very true, sadly, is the fact that Nighthaunt have almost zero shooting. The strength of factions such as Seraphons, Cities, Stormcast Eternals, Overlords... is that not only they can move stuff around with ease - but once they do, they don’t even need to make the charge. Their Razordons, Hurricanums, Ballistas and Ironclads will happily get 9” away from you and shoot most units off the table. We? We need the charge, especially against experienced opponents that know how to zone us out - and often they have the bodies to do it. Wave of terror is elusive, the Cogs are a big investment... yes, you really need the dice to help you out with our ghosts, no matter the extent to which you are a Creed...

Meanwhile, I have been experimenting with the Dolorous Guard elsewhere (Legion of Blood), because a very tough Olynder is scary, sure, but a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon with 20 wounds of Hexwraiths around is even scarier... this battalion is phenomenal for Death in general, coming in at exactly 400 pts worth of allies... again, is somehow sad that the best bits of the Nighthaunts often work much better in some other splinter of the Death GA.

It’s a start, though, and your guide captures a lot of what we can do, so... kudos to you!

I have a Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament. Do you think he will be good with a Dolorous guard (if he is any good got him with my nighthaunts in a trade) and if so does he fit in any battalion or is he just solo? 

[EnixLHQ]

4 hours ago, Thamalys said:

Really thorough - well done! Excellent for beginners, granted, but quite useful for scruffy veterans as well!

Two comments:

1. No mention of the Mourngul? Some will say it’s overcosted, and maybe it is.... but: Spirit Torment + Mourngul is a very durable combo (for Nighthaunt standards) with some surprising punch as well (for Nighthaunt standard). 6” of -1 to hit, rerolling ones, often healing 2D3, a neat blend of damage 2 attacks, minus 2 rend and mortal wounds as well. Plus, it’s the biggest ghost of them all...
2. Everything you wrote about using our movement shenanigans is very true. What is also very true, sadly, is the fact that Nighthaunt have almost zero shooting. The strength of factions such as Seraphons, Cities, Stormcast Eternals, Overlords... is that not only they can move stuff around with ease - but once they do, they don’t even need to make the charge. Their Razordons, Hurricanums, Ballistas and Ironclads will happily get 9” away from you and shoot most units off the table. We? We need the charge, especially against experienced opponents that know how to zone us out - and often they have the bodies to do it. Wave of terror is elusive, the Cogs are a big investment... yes, you really need the dice to help you out with our ghosts, no matter the extent to which you are a Creed...

Meanwhile, I have been experimenting with the Dolorous Guard elsewhere (Legion of Blood), because a very tough Olynder is scary, sure, but a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon with 20 wounds of Hexwraiths around is even scarier... this battalion is phenomenal for Death in general, coming in at exactly 400 pts worth of allies... again, is somehow sad that the best bits of the Nighthaunts often work much better in some other splinter of the Death GA.

It’s a start, though, and your guide captures a lot of what we can do, so... kudos to you!

Thank you!

The Mourngul is tricky for me. I'm in the same boat feeling he's pricey, but to be honest I just haven't used him in a while. But, I was also unsure if a Forge World model should go in the guide. Tell you what, I'll put him in more games and get a better feel for him and then add him in later.

About your second point, I don't disagree. I have a pretty short list of changes to Nighthaunt I am really hoping to see when we get our second book or a substantial competitive update. Wave of Terror, for example, could be adjusted just a bit to overcome this huge discrepancy of modern power. Make it cost a CP so we can decide if and when it happens. Or leave it how it is, but also give it the ability to move units during the shooting phase in comparable distances that ranged units can shoot (or a bit less since ranged units tend to have poor melee profiles). Or go in the other direction and give us army-wide ranged attack protection, like all ranged attacks that target us get -1/-1 due to our ethereal nature. But all this is speculation. It's not our current reality. And right now, yes, we are outmatched in a firefight.

But, with that said, even when I'm up against 40 2+/2+ ranged shots coming my way, from at least two sources, I have options to even the field. Prismatic Palisade is huge boon. The ranged units I tend to see lose significant buffs if they move, which they have to if the Palisade is in the right spot. Same with any magic you can get off at a further range, helped by a Balewind Vortex.

I'll level with you; it takes a lot of effort and a bit of luck to get past an army who can deal 30+ wounds at 20" or more away from you, and it's exhausting trying to. And without house rules to balance that, and players willing to give up their OPness over you, then all you have left is either tricks and tactics, or another army.

[Thamalys]

11 hours ago, Dredgejosh said:

I have a Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament. Do you think he will be good with a Dolorous guard (if he is any good got him with my nighthaunts in a trade) and if so does he fit in any battalion or is he just solo? 

Long story short: I (personally!) don't think good ol' Arkhan is worth taking in a Nighthaunt list anymore. Here's why...

[edit: as righteusly pointed out by @Spears below, Arkhan cannot be taken as a General in a Nihgthaunt army, so no Dolorous Guard for him!]

*Pros

- The Dolorous Guard will make Arkhan really tough to kill - that's great, as all the Mortarchs are notoriously squishy.

- Arkhan is fast. Really fast if in his top bracket (16"). 

- His Mortarch os Sacrament ability is really good: heal/bring back 3 (not D3! 3, flat!) wounds worth of models to 4 (4!) summonable units within 24" (wow!). That's really quite something. It'll boost the healing capability of your list by a sizable margin. And that just happens, for free, every hero phase - sweet.

- +2 to cast/unbind/dispel if in the top bracket. Powerful, and Curse of Years is still a very powerful spell (albeit the endless cascade down to 1's dealing mortal wounds as been FAQ'd).

* Cons

- Arkhan sucks in melee. The Dolorous guard is (in my opinion) meant to grant some staying power to characters with some solid damage output (Olynder is probably the best choice you have, as her damage is mostly morta wounds).

- Arkhan has lost the ability to know the spells of every other Death wizard (within a certain range I can't recall) on the table. This is a huge problem, in that - as an ally - Arkhan doesn't get access to the Nighthaunt spell lore. No more Shademist on a 4+, sadly...

- Arkhan is costly. 360 pts. It's a big investment... Olynder and Reikenor (who usually gives you a +3 to cast, with obviously access to the Nighthaunt lore) together cost 370 pts.

- Arkhan is still an ally. No Spectral Summons (despite him being real fast... shame), no 6+ shrug...

In a nutshell: now that Arkhan has lost his signature ability, I don't think he's worth taking anymore. Unless, you have 4 units os Spirit Hosts in your list (to maximise his healing) and a good number of endless spells to bring with you. Even then, I wouldn't be so sure...

Edited February 24, 2020 by Thamalys

[Snoogens]

11 hours ago, Thamalys said:

Meanwhile, I have been experimenting with the Dolorous Guard elsewhere (Legion of Blood), because a very tough Olynder is scary, sure, but a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon with 20 wounds of Hexwraiths around is even scarier... this battalion is phenomenal for Death in general, coming in at exactly 400 pts worth of allies... again, is somehow sad that the best bits of the Nighthaunts often work much better in some other splinter of the Death GA.

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Dolorous Guard was a Nighthaunt only Batallion, and I can't see an option to add Batallions from other allegiances into a list? Sounds cool, but I'm unsure if this actually works?

[Thamalys]

16 minutes ago, Snoogens said:

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Dolorous Guard was a Nighthaunt only Batallion, and I can't see an option to add Batallions from other allegiances into a list? Sounds cool, but I'm unsure if this actually works?

The Dolorous Guard is a Nighthaunt battalion - correct.

Legion of Nagash has the option to ally Nighthaunt as a faction, so you can ally units and/or battalion. Crucially (this has been specified in the FAQs), even though the units making up an allied battalion might be Legion of Nagash units (that's the case for Hexwraiths), you still treat them as allies, because they are part of an an ally battalion.

In the case of the Dolorous Guard, then, you pay 140x2=280 pts worth of Hexwraiths (2 units of 5) and 140 pts for the battalion: 400 pts on the nose (neat), which is right on the limit of what you can ally in a 2000 pts list.

Note that:

- As long as you can pay the points for it, you can ally any other Nighthaunt battalion in Legion on Nagash. For instance, the Chainguard is fairly popular option.

- You can only ally battalions from factions that figure in the allies. For Legion of Nagash, that'd be Nighthaunt and Flesh-eater Courts.

- The Dolorous Guard is less solid in Legion of Nagash compared to Nighthaunt. This is because the Hexwraiths units in the Guard are allies in Legion of Nagash: as such, they do not get the 6+ shrug and they do not count toward battleline requirements. You can't heal them via the gravesites either, nor you can bring them back via Endless Legion. However, you can heal them via Deathly Invocation and/or spells such as Vile Transference.

In summary: yes you can!

[Spears]

44 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

- The Dolorous Guard will make Arkhan really tough to kill - that's great, as all the Mortarchs are notoriously squishy.

-* Cons

- Arkhan sucks in melee. The Dolorous guard is (in my opinion) meant to grant some staying power to characters with some solid damage output (Olynder is probably the best choice you have, as her damage is mostly morta wounds).

I agree with your overall assesment of the new Arkhan, Dolorous guard doesn't make him any tougher though. Unless i'm misreading it the bounce is only on the General, Arkhan can't be a Nighthaunt general.

[Thamalys]

21 minutes ago, Spears said:

I agree with your overall assesment of the new Arkhan, Dolorous guard doesn't make him any tougher though. Unless i'm misreading it the bounce is only on the General, Arkhan can't be a Nighthaunt general.

You're absolutely right! Sorry, I was still thinking LoN...

[The_Dudemeister]

1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

- The Dolorous Guard is less solid in Legion of Nagash compared to Nighthaunt. This is because the Hexwraiths units in the Guard are allies in Legion of Nagash: as such, they do not get the 6+ shrug and they do not count toward battleline requirements. You can't heal them via the gravesites either, nor you can bring them back via Endless Legion. However, you can heal them via Deathly Invocation and/or spells such as Vile Transference.

 

Quote

Q: In a battle between two Legions of Nagash, do both players set up gravesites? If so, can a player use their opponent’s gravesites as well as their own?

A: Yes to both questions.

DG-Hexwraiths can use gravesites as they work indiscriminately even on your opponent. They can also benefit from Endless Legions as it is a command ability that only asks for SUMMONABLE. On the same vein they'd benefit from the 6+ shrug of Deathless Minion. An allied hero like Lady Olynder wouldn't generate the aura herself but would get a 6+ from another hero. She also wouldn't get something like the +1 to casting or even a spell from the spell lore in the first place because those allegiance abilities ask for "wizards in a Legion of Sacrament/Grand Host of Nagash etc army" and as an ally she wouldn't be part of that.

The key word in most of these abilities is "friendly" btw, which makes them so universally applicable.

Edited February 24, 2020 by The_Dudemeister

[Thamalys]

34 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

 

DG-Hexwraiths can use gravesites as they work indiscriminately even on your opponent. They can also benefit from Endless Legions as it is a command ability that only asks for SUMMONABLE. On the same vein they'd benefit from the 6+ shrug of Deathless Minion. An allied hero like Lady Olynder wouldn't generate the aura herself but would get a 6+ from another hero. She also wouldn't get something like the +1 to casting or even a spell from the spell lore in the first place because those allegiance abilities ask for "wizards in a Legion of Sacrament/Grand Host of Nagash etc army" and as an ally she wouldn't be part of that.

The key word in most of these abilities is "friendly" btw, which makes them so universally applicable.

This is incorrect.

The Hexwraiths in a Dolorous Guard battalion taken as an ally to Legion of Nagash are allies. As such, allies do not benefit from Allegiance Abilities. Sure, gravesites work for your opponent's units as well if they are running LoN - but they won't work on the allied units in your opponent's LoN list.

Gravesites (Invigorating Aura as well as The Unquiet Dead), Endless Legions and Deathless Minions (6+ shrug) are all LoN Battle Traits, and as such they simply cannot be applied to allied units.

It doesn't matter that Hexwraiths are summonable... they are still allies.

From the latest Designer Commentary:

Q: If I include a Chainguard, Execution Horde, or Death Stalkers warscroll battalion in a Legions of Nagash army, is the battalion (and the units in it) an ally?
A: Yes.

Deathly Invocation works because is a Warscroll ability, not a Battle Trait.

And no, Lady Olynder does not get Deathless minions from a Death Hero if she's taken as an ally in LoN. She's an ally, and as such she does not benefit from Battle Traits. 

From the latest Designer Commentary:

Q: Can I use the Deathless Minions, Endless Legions and Invigorating Aura battle traits for allies in a Legions of Nagash army?
A: No. However, note that several Nighthaunt units can now be taken as part of a Legions of Nagash army, and you can use those battle traits for those units (see the Legions of Nagash errata).

Now, Hexwraiths can  be taken as part of a LoN army, and in that case they will  get access to all of the above. However, in the Dolorous Guard they are still allies, and as such they do not.

Hope this helps.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Thamalys

[Dredgejosh]

3 hours ago, Thamalys said:

[edit: as righteusly pointed out by @Spears below, Arkhan cannot be taken as a General in a Nihgthaunt army, so no Dolorous Guard for him!]

 

Thank you so much for all the info. So yeah, I don't think i'm going to run him. I am apart of a slow grow league and we are now at 1k points. I think i'll be doing the Dolorous Guard in there and then I need to decide my general and what else i'm going to take. Thank you all for all the help

 

[Jabbuk]

I have a question regarding battalions at 1k. I come from Ironjawz and it's generally assumed that taking a battalion at 1k is very pricey and you're better off going for more bodies. I was wondering, since NH is so reliant on battalions to make their units stronger, if you guys would tend to take a battalion at 1k or not. Interested to hear your thoughts about it.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Jabbuk

[EnixLHQ]

5 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

I have a question regarding battalions at 1k. I come from Ironjawz and it's generally assumed that taking a battalion at 1k is very pricey and you're better off going for more bodies. I was wondering, since NH is so reliant on battalions to make their units stronger, if you guys would tend to take a battalion at 1k or not. Interested to hear your thoughts about it.

Oof. 1k can be hard for NH. We like to shine at a bit higher than that. At that point level I would focus more on whatever utility you could bring with heroes and units than battalions, but our battalions are cheap enough that you could still fit one in.

[EnixLHQ]

What are your guys' thoughts about The Sons of the Lichemaster mercenary group for us?

I came across a list the player claims he went 3-0 in a small 16-person tournament. In this list he ran the following (built exactly as he has revealed so far):

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Vampire Lord (140)
- Allies
Necromancer (130)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (140)

Battalions
Shroudguard (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 270 / 400
Wounds: 105

I'm not too concerned with the list itself, though a lot of people are now copying it with their own variations and raising some concerns with it. But I want to know if anyone has grabbed both the VL and Necro and think their Deathly Invocations and individual offerings are worth their lack of Ethereal and the Necro's lack of flying.

I love the idea of more model-return. That's 5 units for D3 each between the both of them. Worth it?

[Thamalys]

12 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

What are your guys' thoughts about The Sons of the Lichemaster mercenary group for us?

I came across a list the player claims he went 3-0 in a small 16-person tournament. In this list he ran the following (built exactly as he has revealed so far):

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Vampire Lord (140)
- Allies
Necromancer (130)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (140)

Battalions
Shroudguard (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 270 / 400
Wounds: 105

I'm not too concerned with the list itself, though a lot of people are now copying it with their own variations and raising some concerns with it. But I want to know if anyone has grabbed both the VL and Necro and think their Deathly Invocations and individual offerings are worth their lack of Ethereal and the Necro's lack of flying.

I love the idea of more model-return. That's 5 units for D3 each between the both of them. Worth it?

It's an interesting list, fairly balanced and with some potential for decent damage. The Vampire Lord (VL) is an auto-include in every Nighthaunt list of mine. The +1 attack on a blob of 30 Reapers is just incredible, and far superior to the Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (KoS) Command Ability (CA) - which last for one combat phase only. The VL CA lasts until your next hero phase, and in addition to that its' much, much easier to use, especially on said big blob of Reapers, as you need to be within 15", not wholly within 12" (as in the case of the KoS). To that you add the fact that the VL is a caster that returns D3 wounds for up to 3 summonable units within (not wholly within!) every hero phase and can fly up to 10" (always take the flying horror variant!), and there you have it. Mandatory auto-include.

The Necromancer is also quite good - I did run one in a couple of LoN lists some time ago... I think he's best used in conjunction with Spirit Hosts, though. That's because he moves really slowly and Vanhel on 6-9 Spirit Host is actually quite nasty. On glass cannons such as Revenants, by the time you pick them the second time to fight, most of them will be gone. Still a solid choice - not sure is an autoinclude, but definitely worth thinking about it.

Note that the Sons of the Lichemaster is meant to buff some skellies/zombies... sure, you can just take a single Necromancer, but I'm not sure...

At this point, let's just have a laugh and contemplate the possibility of The Reaper Bomb... 30 Reapers (420 pts) + 1 VL (140 pts) + 1 Necromancer (130 pts) + 1 KoS on Steed (120 pts) + 1 Guardian of Souls give you, for 930 pts and 2 CPs, 240 attacks (neglecting that the bell does its own thing and assuming that [1.] you can pile in 30 Reapers and [2.] Vanhel does go off) hitting on 4s (hopefully re-rolling, as this is The Horde Killer Bomb...), wounding on 2s, -1 rend, 1 damage. That, would be enough to clear three 20-man units of Phoenix Guard in one go. And, every hero phase, you are returning 2D3 (+1D6 if the Guardian of Souls spell is cast) Reapers... not very competitive an option (as it costs more than Nagash...), but I'd love to roll 240 dice...

Edited February 25, 2020 by Thamalys

[Dredgejosh]

1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

It's an interesting list, fairly balanced and with some potential for decent damage. The Vampire Lord (VL) is an auto-include in every Nighthaunt list of mine. The +1 attack on a blob of 30 Reapers is just incredible, and far superior to the Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (KoS) Command Ability (CA) - which last for one combat phase only. The VL CA lasts until your next hero phase, and in addition to that its' much, much easier to use, especially on said big blob of Reapers, as you need to be within 15", not wholly within 12" (as in the case of the KoS). To that you add the fact that the VL is a caster that returns D3 wounds for up to 3 summonable units within (not wholly within!) every hero phase and can fly up to 10" (always take the flying horror variant!), and there you have it. Mandatory auto-include.

The Necromancer is also quite good - I did run one in a couple of LoN lists some time ago... I think he's best used in conjunction with Spirit Hosts, though. That's because he moves really slowly and Vanhel on 6-9 Spirit Host is actually quite nasty. On glass cannons such as Revenants, by the time you pick them the second time to fight, most of them will be gone. Still a solid choice - not sure is an autoinclude, but definitely worth thinking about it.

Note that the Sons of the Lichemaster is meant to buff some skellies/zombies... sure, you can just take a single Necromancer, but I'm not sure...

At this point, let's just have a laugh and contemplate the possibility of The Reaper Bomb... 30 Reapers (420 pts) + 1 VL (140 pts) + 1 Necromancer (130 pts) + 1 KoS on Steed (120 pts) + 1 Guardian of Souls give you, for 930 pts and 2 CPs, 240 attacks (neglecting that the bell does its own thing and assuming that [1.] you can pile in 30 Reapers and [2.] Vanhel does go off) hitting on 4s (hopefully re-rolling, as this is The Horde Killer Bomb...), wounding on 2s, -1 rend, 1 damage. That, would be enough to clear three 20-man units of Phoenix Guard in one go. And, every hero phase, you are returning 2D3 (+1D6 if the Guardian of Souls spell is cast) Reapers... not very competitive an option (as it costs more than Nagash...), but I'd love to roll 240 dice...

Quick question since i'm new to all of this
A: How do you get them to wound on 2s? 
B: How do you get 240 dice from just a 30 man group of reapers? 
C : My escalation league just went to 1k and i'm seriously thinking about taking what you put in last if I can figure out how it works @.@

[Thamalys]

51 minutes ago, Dredgejosh said:

Quick question since i'm new to all of this
A: How do you get them to wound on 2s? 
B: How do you get 240 dice from just a 30 man group of reapers? 
C : My escalation league just went to 1k and i'm seriously thinking about taking what you put in last if I can figure out how it works @.@

A. Grimghast Reapers regularly wound on 3+.  If you manage (tricky...) to have them wholly within 12" of a Guardian of Souls, the latter has an ability (Nightmare Lantern) that grants +1 to wound to friendly Nighthaunt units.

B. 30 Reapers * ( 2 attacks [base] + 1 attack [Vampire Lord command ability, Blood Feast] + 1 attack [Knight of Shroud on Etheral Steed command ability, Lord of Gheists] ) = 120 attacks. If a Necromancer successfully casts Vanhel's Danse Macabre, you can pick the unit to pile in and attack twice. Of course, the unit will probably suffer some damage before it gets the chance to swing twice - hence, 240 is definitely over-optimistic... and the Bell [the Extoller of Shyish, the leader of your Reapers unit] does its own thing...

C. No, don't do it - unless you're in for a laugh. You have 930 out of your 1000 pts into one place... and this is an objective-based game. In a 1000K Nighthaunt list I usually tend to bring at least three different "chunks", so as to threathen/hold three different objectives. In addition, despite their 4+ etheral save, your Reapers are not that durable. Say, a unit of 10 Blood Knights on the charge (with a re-roll all failed hits buff, which costs just a CP if you have a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon around) would on average wipe out 24 Reapers. The rate at which you bring them back is slower compared to the rate high-damage units kill them. And, sadly, in Nighthaunt the unit does not come back for a CP (as it does in LoN).

Makes sense?

[LordPrometheus]

15 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

What are your guys' thoughts about The Sons of the Lichemaster mercenary group for us?

I came across a list the player claims he went 3-0 in a small 16-person tournament. In this list he ran the following (built exactly as he has revealed so far):

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Vampire Lord (140)
- Allies
Necromancer (130)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (140)

Battalions
Shroudguard (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 270 / 400
Wounds: 105

I'm not too concerned with the list itself, though a lot of people are now copying it with their own variations and raising some concerns with it. But I want to know if anyone has grabbed both the VL and Necro and think their Deathly Invocations and individual offerings are worth their lack of Ethereal and the Necro's lack of flying.

I love the idea of more model-return. That's 5 units for D3 each between the both of them. Worth it?

My question is how is he allying a Necromancer into NH? I didn't think they were NH allies. 

[Dredgejosh]

6 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

A. Grimghast Reapers regularly wound on 3+.  If you manage (tricky...) to have them wholly within 12" of a Guardian of Souls, the latter has an ability (Nightmare Lantern) that grants +1 to wound to friendly Nighthaunt units.

B. 30 Reapers * ( 2 attacks [base] + 1 attack [Vampire Lord command ability, Blood Feast] + 1 attack [Knight of Shroud on Etheral Steed command ability, Lord of Gheists] ) = 120 attacks. If a Necromancer successfully casts Vanhel's Danse Macabre, you can pick the unit to pile in and attack twice. Of course, the unit will probably suffer some damage before it gets the chance to swing twice - hence, 240 is definitely over-optimistic... and the Bell [the Extoller of Shyish, the leader of your Reapers unit] does its own thing...

C. No, don't do it - unless you're in for a laugh. You have 930 out of your 1000 pts into one place... and this is an objective-based game. In a 1000K Nighthaunt list I usually tend to bring at least three different "chunks", so as to threathen/hold three different objectives. In addition, despite their 4+ etheral save, your Reapers are not that durable. Say, a unit of 10 Blood Knights on the charge (with a re-roll all failed hits buff, which costs just a CP if you have a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon around) would on average wipe out 24 Reapers. The rate at which you bring them back is slower compared to the rate high-damage units kill them. And, sadly, in Nighthaunt the unit does not come back for a CP (as it does in LoN).

Makes sense?

It makes sense lol. I was honestly thinking about doing it for the lulz. In all honesty though i'm stuggling coming up with a 1k list. Do I go Dolorous Guard and then some heroes and troops or so I just say ****** that and go no battalion and try something else. I've lost ever 500 point game and getting pretty tilted 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Dredgejosh

[Thamalys]

7 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

My question is how is he allying a Necromancer into NH? I didn't think they were NH allies. 

They are not. But, as per the General Handbook 2019, you now have the option to bring in Mercenary Companies (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Mercenary_Companies). Amongst these, there's The Sons of the Lichemaster, which at its bare minimum consist of... well, a singular Necromancer. A bit silly, but hey...

[LordPrometheus]

3 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

They are not. But, as per the General Handbook 2019, you now have the option to bring in Mercenary Companies (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Mercenary_Companies). Amongst these, there's The Sons of the Lichemaster, which at its bare minimum consist of... well, a singular Necromancer. A bit silly, but hey...

Thanks for that! Seems like you'd be better off just playing LoG lol

[Thamalys]

9 minutes ago, Dredgejosh said:

It makes sense lol. I was honestly thinking about doing it for the lulz. In all honesty though i'm stuggling coming up with a 1k list. Do I go Dolorous Guard and then some heroes and troops or so I just say ****** that and go no battalion and try something else. I've lost ever 500 point game and getting pretty tilted 

As @EnixLHQ pointed out already, 1000 pts is a tough mark for Nighthaunt. I personally wouldn't bring the Dolorous Guard in a 1000 pts game, as 400 pts is just too costly. Here's what I usually run...

- Dreadblade Harrow (General, Gryph-feather Charm, Ruler of the Spirit Hosts)

- Guardian of Souls (Chill Blade, Shademist)

- 1 Spirit Torment

- 6 Spirit Hosts

- 20 Grimghast Reapers

- 5 Bladegheist Revenants

Three blocks:

1. The Dreadblade stays with the Spirit Hosts. With Gryph-feather Charm and Look out Sir he's - 2 to hit vai shooting, can bring back D3 Spirit Hosts / Hero phase for free and for one CP can shift them wherever you want via Spectral Summons. Solid. This is your Mortal Wounds output as well if needed.

2. The Guardian of Souls stays with the Reapers, with Shademist on their are pretty tough to shift, and you get them wounding on 2+. Plus, you can bring D6 back if you manage to get the spell off. Also solid.

3. The Spirit Torment stays with the Revenants, in the Underworld. Just 5 of them, but re-rolling all failed hits because of the Spirit Torment, and hopefully getting +1 attack each on the charge. Not very solid as a high-damage unit, but that's what you can do with 1000 pts as the ceiling.

Not an easy list to play, with positioning being absolutely paramount, but at least it offers a tad bit of target saturation...

[Thamalys]

4 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

Seems like you'd be better off just playing LoG lol

From a strictly competitive point of view, that's the sad truth as we speak... at least, that's my opinion... but! The moment you manage to snatch a victory with pure Nighthaunt against a cheesy list (did someone say Tzeench?), you suddenly realise you are actually good at this game...