AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[shinros]

So I've adjusted my list in light of the new battalions, my store is not all that competitive but I gave a long hard thought about it after watching an AOS coach nighthaunt live stream. I'm a newb when it comes to this army but what I am gathering after testing it out is that we can't slug it out compared to armies who can go for an attrition sort of gameplay or bring out tons of damage in one go.

So far, (correct me if I'm wrong) this army is more surgical and you have to pick your battles. After all, lore wise it is a vanguard force. So I'm eager for feedback!   

Vanguard 1500 list, it's 1500 on the dot. 

LEADERS

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120) - General - Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts - Artefact : Midnight Tome - Reaping Scythe

The Briar Queen (180) - Lore of the Underworlds : Soul Cage

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140) - Lore of the Underworlds : Shademist - Infernal Lantern (Artefact) : Lightshard of the Harvest Moon

Spirit Torment (120)

UNITS

5 x Hexwraiths (140)

5 x Hexwraiths (140)

20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

6 x Thorns of the Briar Queen (0)

10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160)

BATTALIONS

The Dolorous Guard (120)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Soulsnare Shackles (40) 

Edited January 5, 2020 by shinros

[VeilAers]

On 1/5/2020 at 7:50 AM, shinros said:

So far, (correct me if I'm wrong) this army is more surgical and you have to pick your battles. After all, lore wise it is a vanguard force. So I'm eager for feedback!   

Seems good. Clearly planning on using KoSoES and DG as your hammer, with some Bladegheist and Dreadscythe backup? I'd be worried you might not have enough objective coverage.

[shinros]

2 hours ago, VeilAers said:

Seems good. Clearly planning on using KoSoES and DG as your hammer, with some Bladegheist and Dreadscythe backup? I'd be worried you might not have enough objective coverage.

Yes, I noticed that the DG helps keep your general alive but reading the thread along with messing around with it they still have trouble killing anything hence I picked up reaping scythe and the Lightshard. On objectives? That worried me as well and it's the weakness for the list. I am hoping the spells controlling movement, briar queen and the thorns of the briar queen will run around and handle objectives. 

[EnixLHQ]

Oh, no, Dolorous Guard absolutely can kill stuff. But it's not as one-sided as, say, Bladegheists.

To use DG effectively you will want to charge with both units and whomever their general is. Likely best general for this is the Knight of Shrouds on Steed because of the +1 attacks he can give both units and himself. That alone will do decent damage against anything with a high save.

Be sure to give the Knight an artifact that boosts his capability. Shadow's Edge with all those 6 chances averages about 2 MW and 2 savable wounds. Headman's Judgement will average about  4 savable wounds. Midnight Tome + Reaper's Scythe will average 5 savable wounds, but introduce a potential cast fail (not likely) and unbind (more likely). If you take Forgotten Scions you can basically add 1 MW/wound to all those values.

[shinros]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

Oh, no, Dolorous Guard absolutely can kill stuff. But it's not as one-sided as, say, Bladegheists.

To use DG effectively you will want to charge with both units and whomever their general is. Likely best general for this is the Knight of Shrouds on Steed because of the +1 attacks he can give both units and himself. That alone will do decent damage against anything with a high save.

Be sure to give the Knight an artifact that boosts his capability. Shadow's Edge with all those 6 chances averages about 2 MW and 2 savable wounds. Headman's Judgement will average about  4 savable wounds. Midnight Tome + Reaper's Scythe will average 5 savable wounds, but introduce a potential cast fail (not likely) and unbind (more likely). If you take Forgotten Scions you can basically add 1 MW/wound to all those values.

I see, thanks! I will make the changes!

Edit: I think you just gave me a way to make my list 2000, thanks again!

Right here is the changes. 2000 points on the dot. 

LEADERS

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120) - General - Command Trait : Ruler of the Spirit Hosts - Artefact : Shadow's Edge

The Briar Queen (180) - Lore of the Underworlds : Soul Cage

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140) - Lore of the Underworlds : Shademist - Infernal Lantern (Artefact) : Lightshard of the Harvest Moon

Spirit Torment (120) - Artefact : Balefire Blade

Dreadblade Harrow (90)

Dreadblade Harrow (90)

UNITS

5 x Hexwraiths (140)

5 x Hexwraiths (140)

20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

6 x Thorns of the Briar Queen (0)

10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160)

10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

BATTALIONS

The Dolorous Guard (120)

The Forgotten Scions (140)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Soulsnare Shackles (40)

Edited January 8, 2020 by shinros

[EnixLHQ]

Not a bad looking list at all. Lots of MSUs to try to nail WoT is good.

[shinros]

22 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Not a bad looking list at all. Lots of MSUs to try to nail WoT is good.

Thanks, that's what I am largely shooting for. 

[The_Dudemeister]

Monstrous Arcanum has been updated, but no changes to the Mourngul. Still 280pts unfortunately.

[SleeperAgent]

1 hour ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Monstrous Arcanum has been updated, but no changes to the Mourngul. Still 280pts unfortunately.

I don't think it'll get updated until the big faq in June. IIRC that's when it dropped last time. It seems to have been rolled into the gw model updates.

I can easily see it settle at 240 but considering they're doing everything in 10's and 20's it'll probably be 260 in June.

[Neck-Romantic]

Reading the Ossiarch book makes me wonder why our replenishment mechanics are so convoluted, and still the only Death faction that has to suffer this way.

OBR went back to heroes that just click their heels and get models back.

Still think we lack a true defensive/phalanx elite unit with shields or some other re-roll failed armor saves mechanic. 4+/6+ ethereal and deathless across the board is just not durable.

 

Ive been rolling with 15 man bladegheist units in order to have some stay alive to regen; but they waste their foot print quite badly, unae to get them all in melee range and giving up extra WoT attempts. 

 

Thoughts?

[SleeperAgent]

9 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Reading the Ossiarch book makes me wonder why our replenishment mechanics are so convoluted, and still the only Death faction that has to suffer this way.

OBR went back to heroes that just click their heels and get models back.

Still think we lack a true defensive/phalanx elite unit with shields or some other re-roll failed armor saves mechanic. 4+/6+ ethereal and deathless across the board is just not durable.

 

Ive been rolling with 15 man bladegheist units in order to have some stay alive to regen; but they waste their foot print quite badly, unae to get them all in melee range and giving up extra WoT attempts. 

 

Thoughts?

If you aren't gonna go for max discount I would just do 3 min sized units of BR. Less likely to all get one shotted considering they can spread out. Considering RotSH is a d3, I run a lot more min sized units. Getting 1 back hurts.

 

I actually beat a Bonereaper army today at 1k points. Got massacred turn 1 and most of 2. My 10 man GGR's got wiped turn 1, and my 6 unit of spirit hosts got destroyed by a 10 man mortek and a harvester. Could not make any saves the first 2 turns, like at all.  But then pulled it out. Mourngul is still my hero and I hope he drops in points more.

[EnixLHQ]

Nighthaunt likes a lot of smaller units so a player can get a lot of charge rolls each turn on the hopes that at least one will trigger Wave of Terror. That unanswered attack in the charge phase is just that powerful.

I like to run them more medium-sized. Like, enough models to get everything into combat, plus one size up more as fodder to get chipped away at. It's not always optimal with how our points lie, though.

I've found, by far, the best strategy is to misdirect a bit; a large group of something that you don't intend to support, but likely to still be useful enough to draw fire, and combine that with your real threat units running at small numbers. Something like 20 Reapers to be your sacrificial lamb and multiple 10-man Bladegheists with all the fixings being the actual damage dealers.

Really, it's just our flavor of the tried-and-true hammer and anvil technique. Give your opponent a hard anvil to crash into and then slam them with your multiple hammers.

[dmorley21]

On 1/11/2020 at 5:57 AM, SleeperAgent said:

If you aren't gonna go for max discount I would just do 3 min sized units of BR. Less likely to all get one shotted considering they can spread out. Considering RotSH is a d3, I run a lot more min sized units. Getting 1 back hurts.

 

17 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Nighthaunt likes a lot of smaller units so a player can get a lot of charge rolls each turn on the hopes that at least one will trigger Wave of Terror. That unanswered attack in the charge phase is just that powerful.

These are both true. I've honestly never attempted to utilize RotSH because it's just lackluster unless you're running Spirit Hosts and/or Hexwraiths, which I have have. The more small units you can have, the more likely you can get off WoT's... even if they aren't going to wipe out a unit, they'll help. I just don't really think our army has any game with focusing on healing. This is a movement focused, counter punch army. Being able to deepstirke half of your forces and not being limited to only appearing at the board's edge is really our power. Like @EnixLHQ mentioned, I like to have one big block and then small units to increase my threats and give my opponent more to think about.

On that note, I'll be playing a Dolorous Guard list for the first time (and using Olynder in an actual game for the first time) this Tuesday against Slaves to Darkness. I haven't played that army before, so anyone have any tips? Here's my list:

Lady O - general, Reaping Scythe

Reikenor - Soul Cage

Guardian of Souls - Shademist, Aetherquartz Brooch

Dreadblade Harrow - Pendant of the Fell Wind (I don't have a KoSoES or else I'd have that here instead. But teleporting to use PotFW is always useful.)

10 Chainrasp Horde

5 Hexwraiths / 5 Hexwriaths

30 Grimghast Reapers

5 Bladegheist Revenants / 5 Bladegheist Revenants

10 Dreadscythe Harridans

Chronomantic Cogs / Purple Sun

Dolorous Guard

 

My general idea with this list is threats. Olynder will deploy on the board with the Hexwraiths to be one threat. Reikenor will deploy on the board and try to get the Cogs up near an objective so that he can camp on it with re-rolling saves and two casts. I'll speed up Cogs the turn I decide to deepstrike most of my other units. I've been running the Death Stalkers battalion before this and have a 50% win rate but am hoping Olynder with Dolorous Guard can be a legitimate threat.

[EnixLHQ]

WoT won me my game today.

It was an even trade for three turns, we being petty equal in both points and wounds dealt. Each turn was a pretty good trade in terms of either of us pushing for ground and then losing it on the opponent turn. Pretty fun, actually, not knowing just who was really winning or who was in danger. If you were to look at it at any moment you'd be hard pressed to know the outcome.

And then I landed 3 WoT charges in one turn.

My opponent conceded.

He had a clear chance at winning. It was his game to lose, really, I had overcommitted and had lost a hero, and was not going to take much more damage before I lost multiple complete units. But landing 3 WoTs meant I'd basically have a whole combat phase plus the start of my actual combat phase before he could answer any of it.

He didn't think it was worth it.

It really is that powerful, which is why it has to be rare. It just sucks that it's locked behind a totally random mechanic with no other way to hedge the chances other than multiple tiny units or command points.

3 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

... but am hoping Olynder with Dolorous Guard can be a legitimate threat.

Oh, it is. Expensive, but really worth it. I honestly believe it's one of our best battalions and that, even though it's tough to fit it in under 2K, it should be most of our lists in some way. I'm really, really hoping it sees a lot of tournament play and we see it do extremely well.

[Neck-Romantic]

Vs Slaves to Darkness keep in mind they are much more versatile than they used to be. Ive played against mostly fast, chariot+ cavalry lists that cuased a lot of impact hits.

Try to MW-bomb their general; take extra care to not leave Heroes exposed to their long charge ranges, take out their Altar if they have one

Edited January 13, 2020 by Neck-Romantic

[dmorley21]

Thanks @Neck-Romantic. I've actually never played against Slaves to Darkness ever, so I have nothing to base anything off of for this game. It's good to know about their long charge ranges and ability to dish out impact hits.

21 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Oh, it is. Expensive, but really worth it. I honestly believe it's one of our best battalions and that, even though it's tough to fit it in under 2K, it should be most of our lists in some way. I'm really, really hoping it sees a lot of tournament play and we see it do extremely well.

That's good to hear. I've enjoyed reading your posts.

[Maxo Bug]

Hey, guys. How is it going?

I'm playing against some lizards this Friday, a Vanguard match. Have never played against them, though, so any tips are welcomed.

This is my list:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spirit Drain
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Midnight Tome - Shademist
Spirit Torment (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
10 x Grimghast Reapers (160)
4 x Myrmourn Banshees (70)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 59

I also own:

• 1 KoSoES
• 1 GoS
• 4 stalkers
• 1 Lord executioner
• 2 Cairn Wraiths
• 1 Tomb Banshee.

I know I don't have many bodies there, but since I played the army in AoS 1st Ed, I liked the idea of an elite death army with the Spirit Hosts, (which, BTW, are one of my favorite models from the range) and Hexwraiths.
 

 

[Undeadly]

Rate my Nighthaunt list;

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow(90)
-Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Dreadblade Harrow(90)
-General
-Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
-Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern(140)
-Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
-Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight Lantern
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed(120)
-Artefact: Balefire Blade

Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths(140)
5 x Hexwraiths(140)
20 x Chainrasp Horde(160)
30 x Chainrasp Horde(240)
30 x Grimghast Reapers(420)

Battalions
Chainguard(120)
The Emerald Host(80)
The Dolorous Guard(120)
The Forgotten Scions(140)

Total:2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points:4
Allies:0 / 400
Wounds:121


Plan is to basically go for body blocking the enemy with the big block of Chainrasps, capping the enemy with the smaller one, tackling the big big blocks of the enemy with the Grimghasts, using the Hexwraith to try and kill the bigger targets and protect the Dreadscythe.

The crazy amount of CP and battalions is for the Ghostly Summons, as well as re-rolling 1's for saves and hits. For example, throwing a Shademisted block of Rasps or Grimghasts at the enemy should keep some units locked up in combat.

[The_Dudemeister]

14 hours ago, Undeadly said:

The crazy amount of CP and battalions is for the Ghostly Summons, as well as re-rolling 1's for saves and hits. 

If you plan on using those really often, you could swap the Aetherquartz Brooch with Ulgu's Talisman of the Watcher. That gives you re-roll save of 1 for a unit every combat phase. Saves you 2 CP per round.

Also you only have 1 single-cast-unbind wizard in there which might be problematic. You could either get a wizard or swap out yet another artefact for the Midnight Tome. The extra unbind and possibility to cast Mystic Shield (another 2CP saved for rerolls) will benefit your defenses. 

The Knight of Shrouds' command ability in a list with tons of CP is too valuable to put him on the front line, so his Balefire Sword is an easy choice for swapping. Even with the extra attack from Forgotten Scions, he shouldn't be a damage dealer in this list without a Spirit Torment or Spectral Tether spell to heal him. I wish he had 2" range 😅

With this setup, you'd free up a lot of CP for rerolls that could go into the Knight of Shrouds instead. The extra damage buffed units do far outweigh what he does with the Balefire Blade anyway and you can keep him safe.

[Spears]

I think if you are going to invest in the hexwraith batallion you really need bigger bricks of hexwraiths. That said even in the batallion they are godawful for damage.

[Sauriv]

One of the bigger downside with hexwraiths is the hit on 4+, I'm going to a tournament next weekend and plan to play dolorous guard and I'm going to let a KoS tag along for that + to hit ability but the challenge, as I see it, is to fit all horses in the bubble. 

[The_Dudemeister]

18 hours ago, Undeadly said:

Rate my Nighthaunt list;

I only noticed now that you have the Dolorous Guard but still the traditional playstyle of having a teleporting Dreadblade as general. Those two styles definitely clash. You either keep your Dreadblade safe in the back or you pay the Battalion price for a super beefy general. 

 

On the other hand, it means you could make the Knight of Shrouds your general and disregard what I said about him not getting the Balefire Blade.

[UndeadKing_5150]

New AOS player and I've just picked up the court of the craven king battle force to start of with my nighthaunts. Is there any must haves in addition to this set? I know I'll need more hero's but is there any must takes?

[EnixLHQ]

On 1/17/2020 at 5:42 AM, Sauriv said:

One of the bigger downside with hexwraiths is the hit on 4+, I'm going to a tournament next weekend and plan to play dolorous guard and I'm going to let a KoS tag along for that + to hit ability but the challenge, as I see it, is to fit all horses in the bubble. 

You could bring a Knight of Shrouds and lower that 4+, but that's not what they're for. They've got Frightful Touch, you want 6s, and you want a lot of them. Dolorous Guard gives +1 attack on a charge, and a Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed will give another. Vampire Lord, too, if you like. It's those mortal wounds you want. Oh, and the extra health for your general.

23 hours ago, UndeadKing_5150 said:

New AOS player and I've just picked up the court of the craven king battle force to start of with my nighthaunts. Is there any must haves in addition to this set? I know I'll need more hero's but is there any must takes?

Kurdoss is fun, but I don't play him a lot. He only has a chance to steal the first CP your opponent gets at the top of the turn, and not any of the others they might get through whatever shenanigans, so he basically becomes an expensive beat stick.

But that box gives you some great other units that you might want to get more of. Tons of Chainrasps are a must, more Reapers until you net 30, as many Bladegheists as you can. The rest have their uses, like getting a second set of Hexwraiths to take advantage of any battalion they appear in like Dolorous Guard, which is really good.

As for heroes there's a few you'll always see:

-Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed: needed for the Forgotten Scions battalion, and one of the leader options for the Shroudguard battalion, both great battalions. He can spend CPs to grant units +1 attacks.

-Knight of Shrouds (on foot): Also one of the leader options for Shroudguard. He can spend CPs to give every unit in a bubble around him +1 to hit, and it's stackable, so 2 CP is +2 to hit within that bubble.

-Reikenor the Grimhailer: The last of the options for Shroudguard and one of the best casters in the game. We don't have great spells, but there are a few you'd want his ability to get either a +1 or +3 to cast on, like his Wraithstorm spell, Lifestealer, or the endless spell Chronomantic Cogs.

-Guardian of Souls: Necessary for the Chainguard battalion (another great one) and is a caster that comes with the only model return spell we've got, Spectral Lure. Give him Spectral Tether and you've got a dedicated healer. Too bad there's unbinding likely and unless you give the GoS the Wychlight Lantern artefact there won't be much to ensure the cast. He's got a passive +1 to Wound bubble, though. That's... helpful.

-Dreadblade Harrows: You get two of these in a box, which is great for the Forgotten Scions, but unless you run that battalion you'll only need one. He makes a great General thanks to his teleportation ability, so he can stay safe, show up to use a command trait like Ruler of the Spirit Host, cast a spell if he has the Midnight Tome artefact, or use the Command Ability Spectral Summons to teleport units to him. He breaks the game in terms of mobility and objective capture, especially combined with From the Underworlds They Come.

Spirit Torment: This pretty much rounds out any of the "must have" heroes. Necessary, along with Chainghasts, for The Condemned battalion (gives 'rasps some damage potential), passive "reroll 1's" to any units within range of the bubble, Bladegheists get a reroll everything buff with him near by. But his real benefit is Captured Soul Energy, which is one of the few healing or model return abilities we have that can't be interrupted (the others being RotSH, the Black Coach, and Olynder). It triggers whenever at least 3 enemy models were killed in a round by the time a battleshock phase starts, and if so, heals either D3 (or 3 if those enemies were Stormcast) wounds or models to a unit within 6" inches of the Spirit Torment. Very versatile, as you get to choose if you want to heal or return models even if they're damaged, or you can opt to heal heroes, and the whole bit works whenever 3 enemies are killed, so even in your opponent's turn.

-All the rest of the heroes, including Olynder, are situational at best and filler on the shelf at worst. Lord Executioner is hard to kill, Tomb Banshee can scream at low Bravery targets, and the Cairn Wraith is so cheap he can just be there to make sure your out-of-pocket units can have Command Abilities options and their Deathless Spirits save.

Edited January 19, 2020 by EnixLHQ
ST correction

[UndeadKing_5150]

Brilliant just the sort of advice I'm after. Cheers