AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Thamalys]

51 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Anyway what single faction do you fellow ghostmasters dislike the most? And how so you deal with them?

It'll have to be Skaven. I hate all their competitive builds, especially:

• The double 40 Plague Monks unit list. If you are horribly crafty/lucky you manage to throw a massive unit of overly-buffed Reapers at them and clean them off your table. A brief moment of utter joy follows, only to be shattered when said Reapers (probably the only unit we have that can deal with 40 Plague Monks) are decisively wiped out in return thanks to the filthiest of the filth (i.e. Death Frenzy). You don't have two massive units of Reapers - but they have another unit of 40 Plague Monks, which will be wiping off many ghosts indeed.
• The shooting variants, which special emphasis on the flippin' Stormfiends. Do I need to elaborate on why? 6 wounds each, outrageous MW output, they come out of bloody nowhere in massive units we have no way to get rid of, and by the time we are close enough to try we are wiped out already. Acolytes bother me as well...
• The Vermin Lords-heavy lists, with special hate to be reserved for the uber-tanky flavour (the Warpseer) - almost impossible to dislodge with our ghosts, as our damage output is below miserable. 

I'd love to say I have learned how to prevail against Skaven, and I believe I did: not with Nighthaunt, though. With LoG and LoB I have won most of the games I have played against Skavens - once more, bringing back units is the key. We have very little hopes against the rats, guys. Or at least, I was never able to identify a list that would work against them and something else, as in tournaments you can't really avoid going for an all-rounder if you'd like some winning chances...

So yes, rats. Their prayers truly are filthy, we have no way to stop them, they cast on impossibly low rolls and provide buffs so strong that ours looks like childplay. Not to mention their signature endless spell: the bloody Warp Lighting Vortex - massively, awfully, absolutely undercosted. And with that,  shall be done, your honour. Also, rats. Gross.

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Thamalys

[Neck-Romantic]

I seem to do well vs. Stormcast, Woodelves (forgot what their new madeup word is) and StDarkness.

I fail vs Idoneth over and over; and seemingly against other NHaunt who favor -massive- chainrasp + reaper blobs

[Greasygeek]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

And I never liked armies that look like you rummaged around in your old D&D model bag and turned it inside out. I mean, I get they are factions of the left over cities and tribes that banded together, but if large part of your army could be represented by a junk drawer, I just want to kill it dead and move on.

Haha I like this😆

True the old empire models tend to look silly and outdated in army size however I found that if playing Skirmish, Warcry or similar small narrative games of AOS a small group of old bretonian and empire models really do make a perfect group of adventures.

At Halloween I ran a small skirmish event with a bunch of adventures stuck in a graveyard fighting all things dead. I called it my Petty heroes event. Supposed to be a bunch of no name humanoid idiots in way over there heads.  Free people models worked like a charm for that role. Made their warscroll on the wonderfull warscroll tool made by Runebrush. Anyway back to disliking everything not ethereal😉

[Greasygeek]

1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

It'll have to be Skaven. I hate all their competitive builds, especially:

• I'd love to say I have learned how to prevail against Skaven, and I believe I did: not with Nighthaunt, though. With LoG and LoB I have won most of the games I have played against Skavens - once more, bringing back units is the key. We have very little hopes against the rats, guys. Or at least, I was never able to identify a list that would work against them and something else, as in tournaments you can't really avoid going for an all-rounder if you'd like some winning chances...

Yeah those rats gets on my nerve freequently.

A month back I met them in a 3000pt game. YES they do indeed have many competitive builds. so I struggled with the 40 monks and plaguefurnace, a couple of insanely lucky Warplightning cannons, endless spell nonsense and verminlord, and Stormfiends at the same time.

My army looked smashing at that size, painted and ready,  I told myself as I was wiped off the table in a matter of 2-3 turns.

To  be honest I have won quite a few games against that same Skaven player but mostly because he’s a good guy that likes to try new things and not just build the list I could never outbest, though he has the army to do it.

Pesky rats... at least he did not speak like the skavens do. Hate when players do that. You’re a grown person don’t act like you are a miniature... grrrr

Edited January 3, 2020 by Greasygeek

[Neck-Romantic]

Except for Orkz

[SleeperAgent]

I sure wish Nighthaunt had access to spells like the Parchment Curse. Cast on 8, on a 3+ a unit takes d3 mortals and you lower its bravery by that much FOR THE REST OF THE BATTLE! Why does Tzeentch have this but not the army of frights????

Our book just came out at the wrong time. Going over the Stormcast book, they have the same problem. We are the backlash to the endless conga lining of units. So all our stuff is "wholly within" and they weren't really sure of the distances yet. Katakros and the newer wholly within stuff is way more lenient but still curbs conga lines a bit. 

[dmorley21]

5 hours ago, Thamalys said:

It'll have to be Skaven. I hate all their competitive builds, especially:

• The double 40 Plague Monks unit list. If you are horribly crafty/lucky you manage to throw a massive unit of overly-buffed Reapers at them and clean them off your table. A brief moment of utter joy follows, only to be shattered when said Reapers (probably the only unit we have that can deal with 40 Plague Monks) are decisively wiped out in return thanks to the filthiest of the filth (i.e. Death Frenzy). You don't have two massive units of Reapers - but they have another unit of 40 Plague Monks, which will be wiping off many ghosts indeed.
• The shooting variants, which special emphasis on the flippin' Stormfiends. Do I need to elaborate on why? 6 wounds each, outrageous MW output, they come out of bloody nowhere in massive units we have no way to get rid of, and by the time we are close enough to try we are wiped out already. Acolytes bother me as well...

 

I haven't played a Verminlord list, but have had success against the other two. Plague Monks do an insane amount of damage, but they also die relatively easily. Throwing blobs of Chainrasps at them (with +1 attack from a Vamp or KoS) can usually get the job done... just plan on losing your unit in return. Reapers can also do the job, but even though I have often run two blobs of Reapers it hurts to lose them.

Meanwhile, Reapers are great against Stormfiends that are units of 6 (or 9 previously), especially in the Death Stalkerss battalion. Hiding a unit of Reapers in the underworld as long as you have Cogs is the way to go here.

Really, that's the way I deal with all shooting. I hide a few units and heroes in the underworld, then drop them when Cogs is turned up so I can re-roll charges if need be. It hurts when you don't make the charge, but you're making it more often than not (two shots at rolling a 7). I like to do this with Reapers as shooting units are typically 5+.

[Greasygeek]

I had some success using an expensive mix of bravery debuffs against monks and Stormfiends too.

It would go something like this.

2 x Banshees.

Reikenor (to assure succesful spells).

Horrorghast

Morghast Harbingers (allies).

Even in a NH army you can lower enemy bravery by -4. Banshees are easy (more or less) to place out of harms way. Effectively hitting the Plague Monks with 4D6 MW. Don’t know the math in this and it would never work in a tournement but it does so against single games.

[Thamalys]

11 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

at least he did not speak like the skavens do. Hate when players do that. You’re a grown person don’t act like you are a miniature... grrrr

Er... guilty, I suppose. I may whisper ghastly lines to my opponents in otherworldly tones from time to time... Nagash wants it!

7 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Really, that's the way I deal with all shooting. I hide a few units and heroes in the underworld, then drop them when Cogs is turned up so I can re-roll charges if need be.

Yes, absolutely. The problem with Skaven is that they usually have a massive footprint on the table (40 Monks? Sure, I'll throw in some 80 Clan Rats as well...) - if your opponent is good they'll easily manage to zone you out, preventing you from taking advantage of the Underworld. 

7 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Throwing blobs of Chainrasps at them (with +1 attack from a Vamp or KoS) can usually get the job done...

Never thought about this one... can they really dish out 40 damage, though? Say, 60 attacks if buffed (hard to pile in more than 20 I guess) 4/3/-/1, no rerolling (perhaps a Spirit Torment?), no rend (the rats get a 6+ save)... statistically we are looking at 16.67 damage, spiking at 25?

[Greasygeek]

 

9 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Throwing blobs of Chainrasps at them (with +1 attack from a Vamp or KoS) can usually get the job done...

Wait what now?! I might be playing this wrong but are you sure you are allowed to use the Vampire Lord’s command ability (+1A)? 
 

Thought it was against the rules to use cmd abilites from allies??

[Thamalys]

23 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

 

Wait what now?! I might be playing this wrong but are you sure you are allowed to use the Vampire Lord’s command ability (+1A)? 
 

Thought it was against the rules to use cmd abilites from allies??

Yes you can, it's perfectly fine. The Command Ability is tied to the warscroll (not the allegiance!), and as such it can be safely used as long as the right keyword is invoked. Said keyword, in the case of Blood Feast, is DEATH, which obviously include anything Nighthaunt. As such, you are allowed to use not only Blood Feast, but Deathly Invocation (D3 models back for as many as 3 summoable units within [not wholly  within!!] 12") as well.

In fact, a Vampire Lord is vastly superior to a mounted Knight of Shrouds, as his (the Vampire Lord) Command Ability lasts until your next hero phase (not just for a single combat phase) and can be leveraged by any unit within (not wholly within!) 15". Add to all this the fact that a Vampire Lord is a caster (he doesn't know a spell from the Nighthaunt Lore, but a Mistic Shield is always a useful thing to have, not to mention Realm Spells if in use) and you have an auto-include for just 20 pts more. The Vampire Lord + mounted Knight of Shrouds is a powerful combo, giving you (for 2 CP, so that's quite the investment there) +2 attacks for each model in the unit. On a unit of 30 Reapers that's ~ 120 attacks (if you can pile them all in, which you usually manage to thanks to the 2" range) - notwithstanding the Bell that does its own thing. Enough to wipe out almost every large-ish unit, no matter how tough.

The same applies for the Mortarchs - their Command Abilities can be safely used on our Nighthaunt units (Vigour of Undeath from Mannfred is a good one!) as they are tied to the warscroll. 

[Neck-Romantic]

Another of the glaring issues with our book; the VL beats the KoSoES hands down for its intended role.

[SleeperAgent]

16 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Another of the glaring issues with our book; the VL beats the KoSoES hands down for its intended role.

This was a known problem since day 1. Don't worry so much, after the Seraphon update I foresee NH and the other books that lagged behind to get updated. We have no "household" variant like all the other books (SC, DOK, IDK, etc). And with the new KO book making each city getting different units allowed as battleline opens up a lot of options. Imagine a NH army with Bladegheist Revenants as battleline

[Greasygeek]

So with this new Nagash goes for the Eightpoints book coming up, dare we have a hope that this might add yet another tiny tool for the NH box?

I know its Katakros vs. Archaon but surely it must be Death vs Chaos? No point in making an expansion only for two faction. 
Btw. New siege rules coming also. So if Siege is suppose to be the next thing of AOS. With no availeable castle scenery  I will once again claim that the alleged custom made Ossiarch castle, might be availeable st some point soon.

[Public Universal Duardin]

Hey guys, gals and enby pals! Being of the indecisive sort I let the great god Nuffle decide my first AOS army from a pool of 'Wow, these guys look like great fun" - and Nighthaunt won by a great margin! Despite loud protests about using bone dice near a necromancer of Shyish I want to get into painting ASAP so I can start to ruffle the feathers (pun intended) of my buddy the Tzeentch-player. But Nighthaunts are a quite large army in terms of models (and just by hero choices alone!) - what would you suggest for a friendly/casual 1000p levels? I don't have to win, but I rather have some great ghastly fun instead of realising there's zero synergy and half the points being named heroes is a waste.

[dmorley21]

6 hours ago, Thamalys said:

Yes, absolutely. The problem with Skaven is that they usually have a massive footprint on the table (40 Monks? Sure, I'll throw in some 80 Clan Rats as well...) - if your opponent is good they'll easily manage to zone you out, preventing you from taking advantage of the Underworld. 

Never thought about this one... can they really dish out 40 damage, though? Say, 60 attacks if buffed (hard to pile in more than 20 I guess) 4/3/-/1, no rerolling (perhaps a Spirit Torment?), no rend (the rats get a 6+ save)... statistically we are looking at 16.67 damage, spiking at 25?

I've never really had a problem with taking advantage of deploying in the Underworld. We're actually blessed because we don't have to deploy near a table edge or a terrain feature. So worst case scenario, I can always just pop up with even a unit of 30 Reapers 9" in front of my opponent.

I probably had a Wave of Terror go off with my Chainrasps versus the Plague Monks. It's amazing how big of a difference that can make.

48 minutes ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

Hey guys, gals and enby pals! Being of the indecisive sort I let the great god Nuffle decide my first AOS army from a pool of 'Wow, these guys look like great fun" - and Nighthaunt won by a great margin! Despite loud protests about using bone dice near a necromancer of Shyish I want to get into painting ASAP so I can start to ruffle the feathers (pun intended) of my buddy the Tzeentch-player. But Nighthaunts are a quite large army in terms of models (and just by hero choices alone!) - what would you suggest for a friendly/casual 1000p levels? I don't have to win, but I rather have some great ghastly fun instead of realising there's zero synergy and half the points being named heroes is a waste.

Really depends on how you want to play. I would discourage the named heroes at 1000 pts... I try to run Reikenor at that level but it's typically a waste of points. You'll probably want a Guardian of Souls just to have a caster and Dreadblade Harrows  are fantastic generals. After that, figure out which battleline troops you like the best. Hexwraiths are only useful in battalions, but the other three all have their place. The rest of your troops will then be selected to balance your battleline's weaknesses.

[Public Universal Duardin]

14 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

Really depends on how you want to play. I would discourage the named heroes at 1000 pts... I try to run Reikenor at that level but it's typically a waste of points. You'll probably want a Guardian of Souls just to have a caster and Dreadblade Harrows  are fantastic generals. After that, figure out which battleline troops you like the best. Hexwraiths are only useful in battalions, but the other three all have their place. The rest of your troops will then be selected to balance your battleline's weaknesses.

Thank you for giving me something to think about. Despite the named heroes looking quite stunning it's perhaps best to use those points toward a functioning army. Guess I'll have some list building to do!

[Thamalys]

1 hour ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

Hey guys, gals and enby pals! Being of the indecisive sort I let the great god Nuffle decide my first AOS army from a pool of 'Wow, these guys look like great fun" - and Nighthaunt won by a great margin! Despite loud protests about using bone dice near a necromancer of Shyish I want to get into painting ASAP so I can start to ruffle the feathers (pun intended) of my buddy the Tzeentch-player. But Nighthaunts are a quite large army in terms of models (and just by hero choices alone!) - what would you suggest for a friendly/casual 1000p levels? I don't have to win, but I rather have some great ghastly fun instead of realising there's zero synergy and half the points being named heroes is a waste.

I agree with @dmorley21. In order to provide a concrete example along their suggestions, here's what I usually run in a 1000 pts list. Three different threats making decent use of three hallmarks of Nighthaunt funplay: (1.) The Phantasmal Discorporation + Spectral Summons combo (Dreadblade Harrow + 6 Spirit Hosts) (2.) A solid unit of Reapers wounding on 2+ (thanks to the Guardian of Souls) (3.) A fairly heavy-hitting vanguard surging from the Underworld (5 Revenants + the mounted Knight of Shrouds). Nothing spectacular, just a fairly easy list which can bring some fun on the table!

 

 

 

[Public Universal Duardin]

23 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

I agree with @dmorley21. In order to provide a concrete example along their suggestions, here's what I usually run in a 1000 pts list. Three different threats making decent use of three hallmarks of Nighthaunt funplay: (1.) The Phantasmal Discorporation + Spectral Summons combo (Dreadblade Harrow + 6 Spirit Hosts) (2.) A solid unit of Reapers wounding on 2+ (thanks to the Guardian of Souls) (3.) A fairly heavy-hitting vanguard surging from the Underworld (5 Revenants + the mounted Knight of Shrouds). Nothing spectacular, just a fairly easy list which can bring some fun on the table!

 

 

 

That looks like a good starting point! Oh man, this makes me feel 'plastic fever' and I can't wait to start painting. Thank you a lot!

[EnixLHQ]

Want a glimmer of hope?

"It’s just as well a lot of you have recently started new Chaos forces, as you are going to have lots of undead to kill in 2020." - GW New Year Open Day 2020

Discuss.

[The_Dudemeister]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

"It’s just as well a lot of you have recently started new Chaos forces, as you are going to have lots of undead to kill in 2020." - GW New Year Open Day 2020

I don't wanna be the party pooper 😭

The new narrative campaign book Soul Wars - Wrath of the Everchosen is about the Ossiarch Bonereapers invading the Realm of Chaos. It has nothing to do with us or any of the other Death factions unfortunately.

Edited January 4, 2020 by The_Dudemeister

[EnixLHQ]

Just now, The_Dudemeister said:

I don't wanna be the party pooper 😭

The new narrative campaign book Soul Wars - Wrath of the Everchosen is about the Ossiarch Bonereapers invading the Realm of Chaos. It has nothing to do with us or any of the other Death factions unfortunately.

Absolutely. But that's January. Not all of 2020.

Still have an entire year to see what develops.

[The_Dudemeister]

Fair enough. How about this for hope: One of the Tzeentch units, the Ogroid Thaumaturge, got a slightly different version of our Lifestealer spell now.

He heals with models slain instead of wounds taken so would be used against 1-wound models. Other than that it's also casting value 7 but 18" instead of 12" and d6 MW instead of d3. Hope for Nighthaunt means that we are getting left so far behind that GW feels forced to buff us because our opponent's laughter becomes pity. 😁👌

[calcysimon]

Someone is trying the new battalions? Hexwraiths army 🤔

 

I am thinking about a list like this :

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Balefire Blade
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (200)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spirit Drain
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)

Battalions
The Forgotten Scions (140)
The Dolorous Guard (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128
 

Edited January 5, 2020 by calcysimon

[EnixLHQ]

4 hours ago, calcysimon said:

Someone is trying the new battalions? Hexwraiths army 🤔

 

You mean something like this?

Skip to the summary at the end to get my rambling review on them.