AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[anorek]

Hey hey, I need a small assistance with making an 1500pts army. I am new to Nighthaunts (and AoS in general) and so far I gathered:

Lady Olynder

Knight of Shroud on Ethereal Steed

Lord Executioner

Spirit torment

Guardian is souls with nightmare lantern

20x chainrasp

10x grimghast reapers

10x hexwraith

12x spirit host

5x glaivewraiths

 

Far from optimal, can it somehow be used with allegiance of grief? I find gravesite mechanic interesting along with vassal command trait.

[Undeadly]

27 minutes ago, anorek said:

Hey hey, I need a small assistance with making an 1500pts army. I am new to Nighthaunts (and AoS in general) and so far I gathered:

Lady Olynder

Knight of Shroud on Ethereal Steed

Lord Executioner

Spirit torment

Guardian is souls with nightmare lantern

20x chainrasp

10x grimghast reapers

10x hexwraith

12x spirit host

5x glaivewraiths

 

Far from optimal, can it somehow be used with allegiance of grief? I find gravesite mechanic interesting along with vassal command trait.

Its a bit wonky, but I would honestly say that with what you've got, your better off running  them in Nighthaunt. Using a lot of minimum sized units of Spirit Hosts and the new Hexwraith battalion, you can have Lady Olynder as your general, and make her a good beat stick AND MW dumper. Using your Grimghasts as a sort of horde mulcher with the Knight and Guardian of Souls would be pretty good as well.

[Nasrod]

3 hours ago, anorek said:

Hey hey, I need a small assistance with making an 1500pts army. I am new to Nighthaunts (and AoS in general) and so far I gathered:

Lady Olynder

Knight of Shroud on Ethereal Steed

Lord Executioner

Spirit torment

Guardian is souls with nightmare lantern

20x chainrasp

10x grimghast reapers

10x hexwraith

12x spirit host

5x glaivewraiths

 

Far from optimal, can it somehow be used with allegiance of grief? I find gravesite mechanic interesting along with vassal command trait.

Nighthaunt List:

Lady Olynder - General - 220

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed - 120

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern - 140

Hexwraith x 5 - 140

Hexwraith x 5 - 140

Chainrasp Horde x 20 - 160

Spirit Hosts x 6 - 240

Spirit Hosts x 3 - 120

Glaivewraith Stalker x 4 - 60

Dolorous Guard - 120

1460/1500 points

--

Legion of Grief list:

See above, but subtract the Dolorous Guard battallion for your Spirit Torment. 

[kozokus]

11 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I regularly beat Cities, for example.

What is your favourite list BTW?

[EnixLHQ]

9 hours ago, kozokus said:

What is your favourite list BTW?

Not necessarily my favorite, but my most winningest NH list vs both Hallowheart and Hammerhal.

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Knight of Shrouds (100)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight Lantern
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Spirit Torment (120)

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
2 x Chainghasts (70)

Battalions
Shroudguard (110)
The Condemned (150)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120

 

How this list works:

• Undeworlds units
  • Entire Shroudguard (3 units)
  • KoS or KoSoES (whichever isn't in Shroudguard)
  • GoS
    • 5 total
• Deployed units
  • Dreadblade Harrow
  • Spirit Torment
  • Grimghast Reapers
  • Both Chainrasps Hordes
  • Chainghasts
    • 6 total

The Dreadblade general has four roles to play, depending on how the rest of your army fares.

• Aetherquartz carrier - if all goes well he'll keep your CP comfortable.
• Ruler of the Spirit Host assistance - if you notice a unit taking or will take more damage than can't be sustained by the Spirit Torment or Guardian of Souls you teleport this guy within range so that he can get some free heals on your next turn.
• Unit teleporter - If you mucked up your deployment, underestimated/overestimated your unit commitments, or lost a unit and need another moved right away to keep an objective, then this guy will move and pop a CP to grab a unit. It can also be used to save a unit about to be wiped, but I don't usually have to do that.
• Stop Deathless Spirits save provider - If you lose a hero and feel you need to give a unit their 6+ save, drop this guy off nearby.

Your threat units are the Grimghast Reapers and Bladegheists.

• The Reapers need to be pressuring their horde units. If you're facing Hallowheart then your ultimate target is their "wizard" units, if Hammerhal it's their ranged. You will likely commit the Reapers to this until they are wiped, hence the maxed blob. Also, they will likely go in without a hero, or if you think you can protect them, bring the DH but only if you can keep him safe enough to bail if it gets hairy. They will advance and engage early, even if they won't reach their primary targets.
  • If you have to choose, have the Reapers on the board first in order to shape the fight in their direction. Out of this entire list, this is your expendable unit and if they are your first deployment then your opponent is likely going to start deploying opposite them.
• Your Bladegheists are going to come out of Underworlds at an opponent's weak spot and advance together, with the KoS, KoSoES, and GoS all in tow. This will make them swing for 2+/2+ for 1 CP, 4 attacks on a charge for 1 CP per unit, two chances at Wave of Terror before any CP-costing reroll attempts, a protection spell from GoS prior to the fight, and a 5+ Death save. This makes them surprisingly resilient, but more importantly incredibly deadly.
  • Never commit the Bladegheists unless they are charging first. At 9" don't engage unless both units make the charge and at least one makes WoT, because they'll likely be out of range of some of the buffs. Don't forget they can retreat and charge, but mind where they end up after movement for all your buffs. Mind that you have the Pendant to move across the enemy backline quickly.
    • Never put the heroes into battle unless it guarantees the unit kill.

Your objective units are the Spirit Torment, Chainghasts, and Chainrasps.

• Having deployed these guys on the field already, you should be putting them as close to a couple of objectives as possible. Deploy one set of 'rasps with the ST and Chainghasts close to any objective that will likely have some contention. Deploy the other set of 'rasps at an objective that won't.
  • It's not likely you will be able to share the ST buffs, even through Chainghasts, on both units and that's okay. They aren't there to see battle if you can help it. What's important is that you have some minor ranged support, hero support, and ST model return for the unit that gets contended.
• You will likely run them so they can cap objectives. You will likely need to move them behind a Reaper screen.

General things to remember

• Your heroes heal on opponent Battleshock failures via Feed on Terror. If you took some hero damage, particularly going up against opponent ranged, don't forget about this.
• Measure everything and then measure it twice more. This includes enemy movement, range, and spellcasting.
• Don't advance into an area where enemy ranged will be able to move and then fire at you before you can retaliate. Back up, even.
• Don't engage in fights unless all of your buffs come with you or all your units are able to fight.
• Run heroes if you need to, they don't need to charge.
• You are NOT an overwhelming force. You can NOT charge up the middle and expect to win. The purpose of this list is to guarantee you can take objectives, not necessarily keep them.
  • Read the battle plan very carefully. Most allow you to claim objectives with any unit in range. Most also allow you to keep claim even if you have no units in range after that. This means you can claim an objective and then commit everything to fence your opponent from coming within range of that objective until it's too late for them to win on points.
• You DH should always be doing something. He can claim objectives right away and then leave (see above), for example. But, if it's safer for him to sit in the corner then that's okay, too. Just don't forget about him.
• You can configure this list depending on battle plan and opponent makeup, particularly dropping the Chainghast and taking an extra CP and a Triumph. Or another couple heroes to park somewhere if it's the  Arcane Power battleplan. We have a lot of cheap heroes great for that plan.

 

This list, or variations of it, is somewhere around 5/2 or 6/3 against Cities. 

The above ALLLLLLL being said...

I'm really hoping I can make a much more solid and reliable list with the new battalions. I'm going to try for ol' fashioned Olynderbomb list first for fun and see how that feels, and then tool it based on that.

Edited December 13, 2019 by EnixLHQ

[Souleater]

@EnixLHQThank you for that write up. Very informative. 

[Aaranis]

I'm eager to get Kurdoss in the Battleforce to run him in Dolorous Guard so he can safely smash people. I love the straight-forward strategy of this guy.

[EnixLHQ]

26 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

I'm eager to get Kurdoss in the Battleforce to run him in Dolorous Guard so he can safely smash people. I love the straight-forward strategy of this guy.

He'd have to be your general and you'd lose any kind of Command Trait on him. Olynder does too, but replaces that with an Command Ability.

Might be fun to try, still.

[Aaranis]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

He'd have to be your general and you'd lose any kind of Command Trait on him. Olynder does too, but replaces that with an Command Ability.

Might be fun to try, still.

Oh I know, any of my plans involving Kurdoss are purely for fun purposes, he doesn't bring enough in a competitive level. 

[anorek]

22 hours ago, Nasrod said:

Nighthaunt List:

Lady Olynder - General - 220

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed - 120

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern - 140

Hexwraith x 5 - 140

Hexwraith x 5 - 140

Chainrasp Horde x 20 - 160

Spirit Hosts x 6 - 240

Spirit Hosts x 3 - 120

Glaivewraith Stalker x 4 - 60

Dolorous Guard - 120

1460/1500 points

--

Legion of Grief list:

See above, but subtract the Dolorous Guard battallion for your Spirit Torment. 

Thank you! I didn't know you can use that Bartok battalion with LoG

[anorek]

On 12/13/2019 at 3:36 AM, Undeadly said:

Its a bit wonky, but I would honestly say that with what you've got, your better off running  them in Nighthaunt. Using a lot of minimum sized units of Spirit Hosts and the new Hexwraith battalion, you can have Lady Olynder as your general, and make her a good beat stick AND MW dumper. Using your Grimghasts as a sort of horde mulcher with the Knight and Guardian of Souls would be pretty good as well.

I will try this one. Any suggestion about artifacts? Aetherquartz brooch?

[Nasrod]

32 minutes ago, anorek said:

Thank you! I didn't know you can use that Bartok battalion with LoG

You cannot sadly. Be sure you use the Dolorous Guard battalion only with a pure Nighthaunt army; if you go Legion of Grief, you will not take the battalion. Instead, you will take a Spirit Torment, as he is the same points cost as the Dolorous Guard battalion from Nighthaunt. 

I would suggest Nighthaunt Guard list first. Olynder is one of our best offensive units but 7 wounds goes fast to modern battletomes, despite our ethereal saves. Once you play a game or two, try swapping to Legion of Grief. The Legion of Grief can return troops far easier and be stickier on the battlefield, but your heroes are going to be easier to dispose of.

Even though the Dolorous Guard only protects Olynder, most of your opponents will likely place a lot of attention into her, rather than the Guardian of Souls or Knight of Shrouds. This inadvertently makes them more survivable; in Legion of Grief, the troops are easier to replenish, but their true strength lies in the hands of the heroes who are much easier to kill as there is no major force that sticks out as "Will require a massive investment to kill."

Because of this, you're going to feel as though you have far less say in the matter of how your opponent plays when using Legion of Grief. You will need to utilize the entire army and be extremely careful with movement, placement, and screens. The Dolorous Guard offers a very forgiving introduction to these concepts and more importantly, the synergies of Nighthaunt in general. 

If I was giving you a truly optimal LoG list, I don't think it would even include Olynder. But I love her model, and I bet you do, too. If your goal is to have fun using her on the battlefield for a turn or two, the Nighthaunt+Guard should certainly be your initial choice. 

 

EDIT: Sorry, just saw the question regarding Relics.

Beacon of Nagashizar seems like a necessity here. In the event you cast Spectral Lure, 4 of your 5 eligible targets have 2+ wounds. The Chainrasps will not survive long in a block of 20 so on the miraculous chance they eat a combat and are still around on your hero phase, you want a successful lure to be big. This also guarantees a Hexwraith unit gets 2 models back (3+1) and you have a 66% chance of getting 2 Spirit Hosts back. 

Aetherquartz is always good, but the Knight of Shrouds is your only eligible holder. Be aggressive with your Command Point spending if you go this route; play expecting the KoS to be killed on 3rd round, because he probably will be. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Nasrod

[anorek]

@Nasrod

Thank you, thats why I asked originally - I know that having Lady Olynder in LoG loses some options since she has to be general of that army.

Sorry, I am a bit new - Nighthaunt guard? You mean Nighthautnt with Dolorous guard?

Also, originally I didnt know about this battalion - I thought maybe to use executioner horde and equip some Sword of Judgement to my Executioner and go around and have fun.

 

 

[Charlo]

Are the new battalions in WD any good? Is there info on them anywhere?

[Aaranis]

2 hours ago, Charlo said:

Are the new battalions in WD any good? Is there info on them anywhere?

We had leaks a page or two ago, you'll find them easily. In short, one is a Battalion made of Battalions and a bit useless, another is fairly useful (+1A on KoS on Steed & he can use his CA free once a round), and the last one, the Dolorous Guard, allows us to hace Hexwraiths becoming bodyguards for our General by taking his wounds on a 2+. They also get +1A on the charge but that's just the icing on the cake. So we're pretty pleased overall, I still don't know if it's limited to NH or accessible to Legion of Grief too.

[EnixLHQ]

5 hours ago, Charlo said:

Are the new battalions in WD any good? Is there info on them anywhere?

I think they're all really good, honestly. At least until we see how they perform. I'm hoping they're so good that they're just shy of OP.

But, yes, all the images are a couple pages back.

[Neck-Romantic]

I like the KoS and DH's battalion but its a rather hefty tax. Battalion cost and 2 DH's is pretty rough; though a definite blessing if your list called for them anyway

Edited December 16, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Scurvydog]

11 hours ago, Charlo said:

Are the new battalions in WD any good? Is there info on them anywhere?

They actually seem pretty balanced I think, not auto takes, but have their uses, like battalions should be, which is nice to see instead of a SyllEsskan host issue, where GW has to ban their own rules from tournaments...

I can see hexwraiths being a bit more popular, as their battalion absorbing hits for the general will allow for some more aggressive plays with the otherwise low wound count expensive heroes. The limitation still being for the general only is a bit sad, as they really shine with Glass Cannons like Kurdoss or Olynder, but they sort of "waste" the general tag, where ruler of the spirit hosts really would shine with the battalion. 

I could see them work with a Knight of Shrouds with an aggressive setup, with a unit of 10 hexwraiths and the knight running together, perhaps pendant of the fell wind to really boost their movement and ensure those charges and als possibly mortal wound by flying over something. This setup clashes a bit with the emerald host, as having 2 KoS is not really a good idea.

The KoS and DH battalion is ok I think, it actually works well next to the other battalion, as a unit of 10 hexwraiths receiving some of those free +1 attacks would not be all that bad, putting them to 4 scythe attacks and 4 horse attacks each, which with mortal wounds on the scythes on 6s should bring some nasty shock attacks, although costly all in all. The emerald host is just the cherry on top, you are using over 300 points on battalions though, but maybe the additional artifacts and command points as well will make up for it. Putting that curse of -1 save on a behemoth general, like a Keeper, Mawkrusha or similar will also help quite a bit.

The battalions helps a bit in improving some limitations and weaknesses, at a cost, which seems like a good spot for balance, Hexwraiths are a bit more likely to see play, you get the option for more aggressive Named character play and some more flexibility with command points and command abilities, that is alright I think.

[Neck-Romantic]

I have a Kurdoss, 2 KoS, Aetherquartz list that would love the Scion battallion; but the battalion cost AND 2 DH's is steep.

(Multiple units of bladegheists and Myrmourns, kurdoss and quartz to keep +1a on multiple units)

I still think Harrows should have had some sort of bodyguard synergy with KoS's baked in

Edited December 16, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Aaranis]

Spoiler

Looks like we'll have points updates today guys & gals ! No errata documents has been updated so far but it should happen later today.

Speculation time: what do you wish to see decreased ?

For me, Chainghasts, another 20 pts for named Heroes and a few others, Hexwraiths.

[Scurvydog]

The Condemned battalion is overpriced and should drop by 30 pts really.  Glaivewraith stalkers, the most pointless unit in the book, should also drop to 50 for 4 intead of 60. Mourngul probably af 20 pts drop.

Chainghasts should also drop 10 pts, same for hexwraiths and a bunch of the heroes.

[Spears]

Personally I have hit peak ghosts, I really don't want to push more infantry around the board. I'd like to see significant points drops to the heroes and spells so that I feel less like i'm gimping myself by not putting a bazillion chainrasps on the board.

[Rabidweasel]

Hi all, 

Has anyone played a Meeting Engagement game using NH or LoG?

I'm struggling to come up with a list that i feel will work, using the restrictive rules around the Meeting engagement games.  I want to use Lady O but with only 1k points she's almost 1/4 of the force, however will be a force to contend with provided i can screen her, or drop her in to go "boo" in their table edge.

Banshees could work by popping up and trying to shut down any wizzards.  Perhaps with a HQ Banshee in support?  And Harridans possibly but being restricted to a squad of 10 is a blow. (I have a love for all the ghostie lady models....)

What have other people come up with?  

[Neck-Romantic]

Points update today? Oh man thats exciting!

Personally; slight reduction for Hosts and Hexes, large reduction for Stalkers (or make them BL), small reduction for Myrmourns and Mourngul.

[phlp]

is it possible, that they only »update« the new battalions :/?