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3 minutes ago, Koujow said:

Just wanted to toss something out there that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. The Emerald Host can make the entire army a single drop. Does no one think that by itself is kind of a huge deal? Or am I overhyping it? 

Not at all.

There's already a little debate over the way it's written that will likely require a FAQ to clear up. The term "any" is used in "Any number of warscroll battalions chosen in any combination from the following list", which might mean "zero" is included. If that's true, then for another 80 points as long as you have 1 Forgotten Scions and 1 Dolorous Guard, then yes, you have 1 warscroll battalion to drop.

I think the reason you're not hearing a lot of sounds of joy over this is that a single drop is just that, and splitting units into the Underworlds by necessity would break up that nice bonus. Still, getting it down to 2 or 3 drops compared to the average 4 is really nice, too.

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Can someone please confirm for me that both the KoSos’s command ability and the Dolorus Guard ability will affect both the rider and mount for Hexwraiths? 
 

Meaning that a unit buffed with the command ability will be dishing out 8 (4 for rider, 4 for mount) attacks per model on the charge?

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8 minutes ago, Koujow said:

Just wanted to toss something out there that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. The Emerald Host can make the entire army a single drop. Does no one think that by itself is kind of a huge deal? Or am I overhyping it? 

Another problem with that paying 340p for battalions is quite expensive. 

To have a 1 drop list you would have something like this:

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
15 x Hexwraiths (420)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)

Total: 1560 + 340 (1900) / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Wounds: 106
 

For the 100p left you could have penumbral engine, or, 1 extra cp and probably a triumph. 

With only three heroes and no wizard and 7 units in total the list seems hard to play well with. 

 

1 minute ago, Lebenski said:

Can someone please confirm for me that both the KoSos’s command ability and the Dolorus Guard ability will affect both the rider and mount for Hexwraiths? 
 

Meaning that a unit buffed with the command ability will be dishing out 8 (4 for rider, 4 for mount) attacks per model on the charge?

Yes this is the case. Extra attacks affect all weapon profiles (unless specified otherwise).

artifacts and trait do not apply to mount though, but almost all buffs does. 

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2 minutes ago, Lebenski said:

Can someone please confirm for me that both the KoSos’s command ability and the Dolorus Guard ability will affect both the rider and mount for Hexwraiths? 
 

Meaning that a unit buffed with the command ability will be dishing out 8 (4 for rider, 4 for mount) attacks per model on the charge?

It would be correct; the battalion and CA say add +1 attacks to all Melee weapons.

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1 minute ago, Sauriv said:
Spoiler

 

Another problem with that paying 340p for battalions is quite expensive. 

To have a 1 drop list you would have something like this:

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
15 x Hexwraiths (420)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)

Total: 1560 + 340 (1900) / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Wounds: 106
 

For the 100p left you could have penumbral engine, or, 1 extra cp and probably a triumph. 

With only three heroes and no wizard and 7 units in total the list seems hard to play well with. 

 

Yes this is the case. Extra attacks affect all weapon profiles (unless specified otherwise).

artifacts and trait do not apply to mount though, but almost all buffs does. 

 

 

I was thinking something more along this. I assume the Emerald Host will get FAQ'd to require at least one of the extra battalions, so I built the list with that in mind. Cost 1960 pts, you get 5 CP at the beginning of the game, each hero has an artifact and you have 101 wounds worth of stuff (plus some healing, depending on which artifacts you grab). I didn't pick the actual artifacts or spells. 

Emerald Host

Spoiler

 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Mortal Realm: Shyish

LEADERS

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)

UNITS
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)

BATTALIONS
Emerald Host (80)
Chainguard (120)
The Dolorous Guard (120)
The Forgotten Scions (140)

ENDLESS SPELLS
Shyish Reaper (20)

 

 

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23 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Starting with 4 artefacts means you can make every single hero a wizard though. Make Tzeentch happy. 👌

Remember that you can only take an artifact once and i doubt there are so many available artifact to do that 🙃

 

43 minutes ago, Koujow said:

I was thinking something more along this. I assume the Emerald Host will get FAQ'd to require at least one of the extra battalions, so I built the list with that in mind. Cost 1960 pts, you get 5 CP at the beginning of the game, each hero has an artifact and you have 101 wounds worth of stuff (plus some healing, depending on which artifacts you grab). I didn't pick the actual artifacts or spells. 

Emerald Host

  Hide contents

 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Mortal Realm: Shyish

LEADERS

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)

UNITS
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)

BATTALIONS
Emerald Host (80)
Chainguard (120)
The Dolorous Guard (120)
The Forgotten Scions (140)

ENDLESS SPELLS
Shyish Reaper (20)

 

 

Ever more expensive then, 460p for battalions in a 2000p game is the most expensive suggestion i have ever seen 😛 20p more than a vampire lord on a zombie dragon

Play-testing is the only way to see if it works though so do it and let us know 👍, but I would suspect that it will struggle a bit. 

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To me, The Dolorous Guard is the one and only new Battalion to focus on. I might be right or not, but that's a different conversation to be had.

As such, I've tried to compare one of the NHs lists I've played quite a bit - with mixed results but hey, it's hard to get a 5-0 with our beloved Ghosts, as many of you would agree - with a similar lists where I have tried to incorporate the Dolorous Guard. I'm not claiming this is a fair comparison (different lists are hardly comparable whatever they contains, IMHO), and I did change a few bits and bobs here and there... anyway, here we go:

The Emerald Host

The Emerald Host

Lady Olynder [General], Lifestealer

Guardian of Souls, Gryph-feather Charm, Chill Blade, Shademist

Vampire Lord

Knight of Shrouds (mounted), Balefire Blade

Spirit Torment

--

5 x Hexwraiths

5 x Hexwraiths

30 x Grimghast Reapers

--

10 x Chainrasp Horde

10 x Bladegheist Revenants

10 x Bladegheist Revenants

--

Battallion: The Dolorous Guard.

--

2000 pts

vs

The Black Host

The Black Host

Dreadblade Harrow [General], Gryph-feather Charm, Ruler of the Spirit Hosts

Lady Olynder, Spectral Tether

Guardian of Souls,  Chill Blade, Shademist

Vampire Lord

Knight of Shrouds (mounted)

Spirit Torment

--

6 x Spirit Hosts

6 x Spirit Hosts

20 x Grimghast Reapers

--

10 x Bladegheist Revenants

10 x Bladegheist Revenants

--

Battallion: None.

--

1990 pts

As you can see, very similar lists.

The Emerald Host features a very tanky general (Olynder) thanks to the Dolorous guard: said General can also try (for once!) to get in the face of the big bad guys and unleash the MWs rage without being wiped out off the table the next turn. Great. Than we have a blob of Reapers (properly supported by GoS and Vampire Lord) and two units of Revenants, to be deep-striked at will (I tend to drop the two units in different battlerounds, but that obviously depend on the particular game...) and properly supported by a mounted KoS and a Spirit Torment. Add in 10 Chainrasps because screening is everything (in fact, I'd argue we're missing some more in this list). As a whole, I'd say three main sections of the list meant to do three different things. Extra relic, extra command point as well. Not too shabby.

The Black Host is 1990 pts (cheeky Triumph possible!) and features Lady Olynder (not as a general and unsupported by the Dolorous Guard) screened by 6 Spirit Hosts. She can't survive against the big bad guys for long, but she can very well sit on an objective for a long while (let them come, they can still experience the full weight of the MW awesomeness), and Spirit Hosts are much better than Hexwraiths (all those in favour?). This whole section can be kept in the Underworld if needed. Then we have the Dreadblade Harrow as our general, also screened by 6 Sprit Hosts, which thanks to the Ruler of the Spirit Hosts command trait are even harder to remove than those guarding Olynder. AND, they can be moved around at will thanks to the Phantasmal Discorporation + Spectral Summon combo. Note that the Gryph-feather Charm in conjunction with Look out Sir! means that our flimsy general is minus 2 (oh yeah) to hit via shooting. Useful. And, movement shinanigans can win you many games. Next up: blob of Reapers (not 30 as in the Emerald Host, but 20 is still a decent number - some would say, better manoeuvrable...) supported in exactly the same way as in The Emerald Host. Same story for the Revenants and their support characters. FOUR sections in total for this list, then, to be compared with the tree of the Emerald Host. The latter has less drops, sure, but is still very much beatable in that sense by seriously low-drop armies (Skavens, anyone?).

Which one of thw lists is bound to come out on top? I, genuinely can't tell at first glance. The truth (probably) is, when dealing with certain battleplans having a very tanky general (Emerald Host) is absolutely key: Places of Arcane Powers and Relocation Orb spring to mind. In some other cases, being able to shoot across the board real quick implies very high chances of success: Take and Hold and Battle for the Pass are obvious examples. I'm tempted to say that unless your opponent has the chance of covering you in MWs from a very long distance (i.e. you are playing Tzeench), the Black Host offers more tools to deal with whatever battleplan.I want to feel the hype of these new battalions, though, so please do convince me otherwise!

Edited by Thamalys
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16 minutes ago, ArcaneLore74 said:

Does anybody know if these warscroll batallions in white dwarf with points are legal in matched play tournaments?

Yes, they are. Or, rather, they will be on Saturday upon their official release.

You'll be able to look at these as though they were printed in your NH book.

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I cracked the code behind the Knight of Shrouds' name in the battalion. It's not a named character. It's all about Soul Wars!

In the Soul Wars box we have 4 heroes: a) The Lord Executioner who is also sold as Liekoron the Executioner, b) the Spirit Torment who is also sold as Crawlocke the Jailor, c) the Guardian of Souls who has seen a limited release as Darrakar and d) the Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed who untill now remains a SW exclusive and can't be bought as a stand-alone model.

So there we go, I guess we'll see the KoSoES on the shelves in the foreseeable future as Gharest Malcor. But here's the real kicker: All three other heroes who are or were sold outside of the SW box have alternative models...

Edited by The_Dudemeister
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17 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I think the reason you're not hearing a lot of sounds of joy over this is that a single drop is just that, and splitting units into the Underworlds by necessity would break up that nice bonus. Still, getting it down to 2 or 3 drops compared to the average 4 is really nice, too.

The way I understood this was that you could split the units between the underworld and tabletop all in one drop.  Is that incorrect?

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32 minutes ago, States said:

How does the order work for the dolorous guard ability of passing off wounds?

General saves, General deathless minions, 2+ pass off to Hexwraith, Hexwraith deathless minions?

You don't get two Deatless saves under any circumstance.

Your General makes a save and if that fails, immediately rolls for Dolorous Guard. On a 1 they get their Deathless and it was all business as usual. On a 2+, the wound gets allocated to the Hexwraiths and they make their Deathless.

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16 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

@States

DG states any time you would allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general, roll. On a 2+ you MUST allocate to DG instead

I was thinking about this as well... perhaps the key bit in the Dolorus Guard description is that you "roll a dice before you allocate a wound or a mortal wound to your general", while Deathless Spirits enforces you to "Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound or a mortal wound".

So that's how I'd interpret the interaction between the two:

The General (who is within 3" of a unit of 5 Hexwraiths belonging to the Dolorous Guard) rolls his saves, let's say they fail two for a grand total of two wounds. Because of the "before" in the Dolorous Guard description, these two wounds must be alloacated (on a 2+) on the said Hexwraiths. We roll two dice, one of them is a 1, the other on is a 2. One of the wounds cannot be allocated to the Hexwraiths, and thus must be allocated on the General: at that point, Deathless Spirit kicks in. Let's say we roll a 6 (because Nagash is all and all is Nagash), that wound does not reach our general after all. The other wound (the one we have allocated on the Hexwraiths) gets allocated to the Hexwraiths instead: at that point, Deathless Spirits kicks in as well, and we can try to roll for it. Let's say we roll another 6 (because of the undying glory of the Greatest Necromancer), no wound reach our Hexwraiths.

That's my take - happy to be corrected, folks...

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47 minutes ago, Lebenski said:

The way I understood this was that you could split the units between the underworld and tabletop all in one drop.  Is that incorrect?

That was my understanding as well and how I've played in local one days where I was told I could deploy like that.  I could be wrong though. 

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1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

That was my understanding as well and how I've played in local one days where I was told I could deploy like that.  I could be wrong though. 

Same here - in tournaments as well. The wording of From the Underworld They Come says: "You can set up one unit in the underworlds for each unit you set up on the battlefield", while the wording for the Battalions says: "you can set up some or all of the units from a warscroll battalion at the same time rather than setting up each unit individually". None of these constraints prevent you from setting up any number of units within your battallion wherever you like, Underworld included - as long as, of course, you don't brake the 50% rule. Caveat: allies do not count toward that 50% (darn). I had a (very relaxed) discussion once with one opponent who initially intepreted "one unit in the underworlds for each unit you set up on the battlefield" as if you have to set one unit in the battlefield first in order to be allowed to put one in the Underworld. However, they very quickly agreed that was not the case. Starting your deployment with units in the Underworld is one of the few NHs perks (as it leaves the opponent with harderd choices in terms of their deployment). In addition, I have seen the same reasoning being applied for e.g. Stormcast Eternals in multiple occasions...

Edited by Thamalys
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