AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Neinball]

My hopeful wish list for at least one of the battalions is to let multiple heroes use the spectral summons command ability so we don’t have sacrifice utility when making Olynder our general. 

[Aaranis]

19 minutes ago, Neinball said:

My hopeful wish list for at least one of the battalions is to let multiple heroes use the spectral summons command ability so we don’t have sacrifice utility when making Olynder our general. 

Oooh makes me wish that the ability to teleport a unit would be anytime in the movement phase so that the Dreadblade could teleport a unit near him.

[The_Dudemeister]

We could also use more battalions with +1 or maybe even +2 on the charge or full reroll on the charge roll.

Nighthaunt can deepstrike half their army. I tend to use that a lot but only to grab objectives in the beginning and almost never offensively to get to the enemy. A 9" charge without any boni has a 28% success rate. Leaving more than 2/3rds of your deepstrikers out in the open after failing their charges is a great way to lose the game on the first turn. And seeing how deepstriking is a major part of the Nighthaunt Allegiance Abilities, that's where we could use a boost.

Same with Spectral Summons which also leaves us stranded 9" away from the enemy much more often than we actually make the charge afterwards. Another ability that I exclusively use defensively (teleport out of melee) or for objective grabbing.

49 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

Oooh makes me wish that the ability to teleport a unit would be anytime in the movement phase so that the Dreadblade could teleport a unit near him.

He can already do that, that's why everyone ™ uses him as general. Or what do you mean exactly?

Edited December 7, 2019 by The_Dudemeister

[shinros]

So I divided soul wars with a mate, bit the bullet on nighthaunt, since I have been eyeing them for a long time. And I got the battletome.

Do you wonderful ghosts have any recommendations on what units I should grab next? All the warscrolls seem pretty interesting even if they are not the best army.

Lady Olynder is going to be a must at some point for me though, her model.😍

Edited December 7, 2019 by shinros

[Aaranis]

7 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

He can already do that, that's why everyone ™ uses him as general. Or what do you mean exactly?

He can but not on the same turn he teleports, the Summons happens at the start of the movement phase, while his move his just IN the movement phase, so you have to think one turn ahead if you want to pull that off. 

[The_Dudemeister]

His teleport also happens at the start of the movement phase and you can always choose the order for everything that happens at the same time. So you can teleport him and then use Spectral Summons

[Thamalys]

11 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

His teleport also happens at the start of the movement phase and you can always choose the order for everything that happens at the same time. So you can teleport him and then use Spectral Summons

Correct. That's how the DH has been played in tournaments so far as well. Both actions happen at the same time, so you pick the order. Note that Spectral Summons "stacks", in that e.g. fpr 2 CP you can bring along not only your 20 Reapers, but your quite essential GoS as well...

 

19 minutes ago, shinros said:

Do you wonderful ghosts have any recommendations on what units I should grab next? All the warscrolls seem pretty interesting even if they are not the best army.

Some of my favourite... 

(1) Spirit Hosts: fantastic screens, very hard to get rid of (especially if using Ruler of the Spirit Hosts), and surprisingly punchy if you have 6-9 of them in one unit. When you manage to roll 6+, MWs hurt everyone, big monsters included. Paired with a DH as a General, they don't suffer from their low mobility, making them a very, very solid choice as Battleline. You'll hate them badly when the time comes to actually put together the models, though - oh, the pain...

(2) (MORE. MANY MORE) Grimghast Reapers: in NHs, I usually go for 20 instead of 30 as keeping them within 12" (essential for many things...) becomes quite hard otherwise. They are now quite costly, but still amazingly good. People fear them as well, which is something you can and should leverage.

(3) Bladegheist Revenants: hard-ish hitters. I have 4 units of 5 (very manoeuvrable), can be used in the Shroudguard Battalion for somed durability in conjunction with a mounted KoS and - essential- a Spirit Torment. When they re-roll hits they can be quite nasty. He's also an absolute joy to paint, I like the model very very much indeed.

(4) Reikenor, you should have already: because the entire point with NH is that ephemeral 9" charge, and because of that you need the Cogs - which in turn require that sweet +3 to cast that only Reiki can provide. It's an investment (170+80=250 pts, I believe?), but a good one in my opinion. Get those Cogs!

(5) Various support characters of your choosing: GoS for Reapers, ST and/or KoS for Blades... a Vampire Lord (flying Horror essential) is, I find, a very good addition. Combine it with a mounted KoS and for 2 CP your 20 Reapers are dishing out some 80 attacks... plus D3 back on three different units within (not wholly within) 12", and he's a caster. Which can heal D6 once/battle and as opposed to a GoS can also kill something (little).

31 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

We could also use more battalions with +1 or maybe even +2 on the charge or full reroll on the charge roll.

That might be even too much? With the Cogs on top you'll get a +4 on the charge... a 5" charge is > 80%...

[Neck-Romantic]

Ive stopped taking Reik. Or any casters at all tbh. Spells failing inordinatly everytine I try, been falling back on Torments

[Thamalys]

3 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Ive stopped taking Reik. Or any casters at all tbh. Spells failing inordinatly everytine I try, been falling back on Torments

But... Reiky is +3, that means casting Cogs on a 4+? It has failed me in very few occasions (mostly because the ****** has to suffer the MW he inflicts on himself to get the 3+, and Deathless Spirits is still there to mock us)...

[Neck-Romantic]

Yes. I have in fact failed to cast cogs on a +3 enough times to give up on it, plus the two of them together are such an all-in and obvious strat too.

[Aaranis]

Huh, I always read the Dreadblade's rule as "If he's within 3" of an enemy at the Start of the Movement Phase" simply to prevent him from teleporting when engaged. Thanks for the clarification.

[Thamalys]

35 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

plus the two of them together are such an all-in and obvious strat too.

It has been seen many many times, I do agree.

I suppose it also depend on your list/playstyle, though. If you are going for massive units (three blobs of 40 Rasps and the like...), board control & staying power, than the Reiki+Cogs combo is the last thing you want to waste your points on. With a MSU-style, realtively punchy (this is still NHs after all...) list with multiple opportunities across different battlerounds to leverage our From the Underworld They Come, though, I find said combo to still perform quite well.  In addition, not so many players are willing to spend a dispel attempt to get rid of the Cogs (as they usually enjoy the +2 to move and charge themselves!), but the very same players tend to underestimate the fact that only the caster nearby has the opportunity to slow down time and thus get those very precious save re-rolls + extra spell, making Reiki very much more survivable if needed.

Very few things are reliable within the NH universe,  but casting the Cogs on a 4+ implies a success rate of 91.66% - as close as reliable as we can get, I daresay... having said that, Reiki+Cogs is not an auto-include for me. Again, there's much we can get for those 250 pts instead... it's all in the list!

10 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

I always read the Dreadblade's rule as "If he's within 3" of an enemy at the Start of the Movement Phase" simply to prevent him from teleporting when engaged.

Very important detail: the DH can't do his Phantasmal Discorporation if he's tied up in combat - true, but the unit(S) he calls to him via Spectral Summons can be in combat and still be perfectly eligible to be brought elsewhere. Something I have quickly learned to make my opponent aware of at the very start of the game - huge potential for a goctha moment there if not...

[Aaranis]

43 minutes ago, Thamalys said:

Very important detail: the DH can't do his Phantasmal Discorporation if he's tied up in combat - true, but the unit(S) he calls to him via Spectral Summons can be in combat and still be perfectly eligible to be brought elsewhere. Something I have quickly learned to make my opponent aware of at the very start of the game - huge potential for a goctha moment there if not...

Haha yes I used that once with my KoS on Steed: I had a unit of 5 Hexwraiths down to 2 engaged with too many Goblins. I teleported them near my KoS, healed them 3 models back to life with Ruler of Spirit Hosts, then succeeded a 10+ charge on another Goblin unit. 200 IQ move that won me the game because the Hexwraiths were on steroids on that charge and killed a lot of them.

[Aaranis]

Alright, got myself 9 Spirit Hosts. Looks like Emperor Executioner will soon hit the table (and the enemy heroes).

I already picture him slowly closing in on his target:

"What are you doing ??"

"Killing Monsters."

*Deals 12 MWs*

Edit: Already wrote a list, let me know what you think of it. It's the Executioner as explained a few times before in the topic, minus the support of Olynder as I don't have her yet. So with 1 CP I'm looking at MWs on 5+ on a 10+ charge and 4+ in the Fight phase. Realistically I'll probably burn 2 CPs though to buff more units with +2 to Hit as it's a bubble.

Also added some bodies and figured a Chainguard Battalion would be nice with the doped GoS, to add a CP, an artifact and make less drops. He'd heal back 2d6+3 Chainrasps, or d6+3 anything else.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Lord Executioner (80)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar
Spirit Torment (120)
- Artefact: Betrayer's Crown
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
Knight of Shrouds (100)

Battleline
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Battalions
Execution Horde (100)
Chainguard (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Aaranis

[Greasygeek]

Sorry can!t remember what does the Sword of Judgement do?

[Sauriv]

24 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Sorry can!t remember what does the Sword of Judgement do?

On each hit of 6+ (so it includes modifiers) the attack sequence stops for that attack and you deal 1d6 mw instead. 

[Aaranis]

WD preorders on the 10th, I should be able to read it on the 13th or 14th if it hasn't been leaked already. I'll keep you informed !

[Tropical Ghost General]

Leaked battalions from WD. 

Good but offer no real answers to the activation wars or shooting/mortal wound heavy armies. 

Also no sign of ghost versions of chambers/clans/lodges/etc... 

Overall disappointing. 

[Spears]

Not great, not terrible either.

Bit too spendy to make the cut imo.

[Sauriv]

The dolorous guard seems nuts, this one was the hardest one to read but extra attacks on the charge and able to bounce wounds off your general sounds to me very good. 

Any general with ruler of the spirit host will be very tanky when close to the hexwraiths. Every turn (s)he can return 6 wounds worth of models. 

A charging 10 man unit of hexwraiths with the buff from a KoSoES will probably make your opponent cry. 40 attacks which should on agerage result in 6-7 mw just from rolling 6s. All other attacks with rend should do some damage aswell. 4 attacks with the mount actually makes it useful. 

[Aaranis]

Ah Jesus why they had to make a Hexwraiths Battalion, I told them I just mounted a unit as Black Knights :') 

Well the Emerald Host is terrible, no doubts about that. 

The Dolorous Guard was neatly covered by Sauriv, I think it could be nice to protect a KoSoES or Dreadblade General as well as making the Hexwraiths a real threat for a change.

The Forgotten Scions however, I see it has great potential. We're looking at a KoSoES with 5A base that can buff for free once a round. There's got to be a few relic weapons that could make a nice us of that yes ?

Like the Sword of Judgement™ ?

Add to it the Dolorous Guard and we're looking at a really interesting Nighthaunt cavalry force. Quite costly points-wise though, we'd have to build around that.

EDIT: For ease of reading I'll write the Dolorous Guard's text:

Quote

Knights of Regret: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by units of this Battalion that have made a charge move in the same phase. In addition, roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to your General if your General is within 3" of any friendly units with this ability. On a 2+ you must allocate that wound or mortal wound to a friendly unit with this ability that is within 3" of your General, instead of your General.

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Aaranis

[Sauriv]

20 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

The Forgotten Scions however, I see it has great potential. We're looking at a KoSoES with 5A base that can buff for free once a round. There's got to be a few relic weapons that could make a nice us of that yes ?

Like the Sword of Judgement™ ?

I saw that the KoSoES had a name?! Malcor or something. Does this mean that he is a named character aka not allowed traits and artifacts? 

Im not used to WD releasing stuff. 

[Aaranis]

Already wrote a list hehe.

Experimenting on a Dolorous Guard + Forgotten Scions list, heavily invested in speed.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)

Battleline
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
30 x Grimghast Reapers (420)

Units
12 x Myrmourn Banshees (210)

Battalions:
The Dolorous Guard
The Forgotten Scions

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105

The mounted KoS is the General, he rocks 5A base 3+/3+/-1/2D and rides alongside a Dreadblade Harrow with the Pendant of the Fell Wind to boost everything in a 12" bubble with +3" Movement. Another has the Talisman of the Watcher to give a free Mystic Shield to ONE friendly unit within 9" if he himself is not in combat. They're accompanied by the big bubble of Hexwraiths.

Meanwhile, Reikenor casts Chronomantic Cogs on a 4+ and choses to give +2"movement and charge. This allows the Hexwraiths to move 15" base, and 18" for those near the Pendant of the Fell Winds, while getting a +2" to their charges. Combined with Fly you should be able to go pretty much wherever you want, and remember to jump across units to deal them MWs on a 5+ too.

The Grimghast are here as a solid anvil to form the bulk of the list, occupying space and being a pain to remove. The Myrmourn are there to eat magic and stab people, as they greatly benefit from the mounted KoS' ability to give +1A.

Alright I wrote this in 5 minutes on top of my head and I'm sure it can be fine-tuned but you get the idea. Supersonic Specters of Destruction™.

[Aaranis]

4 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

I saw that the KoSoES had a name?! Malcor or something. Does this mean that he is a named character aka not allowed traits and artifacts? 

Im not used to WD releasing stuff. 

No I believe it's just to add a narrative, he's probably included in a short story in the same pages. They could've just said "The Knight of Shroud on Ethereal Steed's Sword of Stolen Hours" I guess.

[Thamalys]

My twopence...

The Emerald Host: such a joke that it's not even worth talking about it.

The Forgotten Scions: 1 mounted KoS and a DH is something you might want to take anyway, which is good. 2 DHs? Very rarely - you usually pick one DH to be your general with RotSHs and that's it. So, an investement of not-so-useful 90pts already. +1 for our KoS is good, and paired with a relic (the Balefire Blade comes to mins... the Sword of Judgment is not reliable on a 6+) is even better, but would that combo (assuming that this Malcor can actually take a relic, @Sauriv might be right, if we're talking about a named character, forget it...) turn our KoS into a serious killer? Not even close. Still mediocre, still flimsy. Being able to use his CA for free is great, but let's not forget that the effect of that CA last for one combat phase only. The worst part: 140 points. Potential combo with ShroudGuard, though? One mounted KoS, one on foot, 2 DHs, 2 units of 10 Bladegheists? I don't know, still not sold...

The Dolorous Guard: +1 attack on Hexwraiths means very little, they still suck - hitting on bloody 4+. Passing wounds on 2+ is the real thing here, potentially solving for real one big issue with NHs, that is that our Generals are real flimsy. 120 points? Worth it, but let's not forget that Hexwraiths are pricey (I'd say massively overpriced for what they do: 140 pts for 5, and no regiment discount). My only problem: I hate the Hexwraiths models... time for some conversions, I guess... 

In a nutshell: I am happy, as this is new stuff, and it can be used to shake things up a bit. I sure hope it's just a start, though - we need way more to get back in the game.

Lastly: these are NHs Battallions - great. Can we use them in LoG? No news on that front? The Dolorous Guard in LoG would be absolutely phenomenal... having a virtually immortal General in a proper (i.e. Endless Legions) Death army would be so strong...