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AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion


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1 hour ago, Sauriv said:

Hi i will soon write a report about last weeks tournament i went to, i ended up in 9 place of 25 and went 3/0/2.

But here are some of my thoughts on your questions 😊 

Healing: i seldom inculde much healing but when i do i dont use GoS, the spell is as ju say unreliable to cast and swingy in its effect. I perfer ST for healing and i run alot of spirit hosts so that reroll 1 to hit is important for me. ST can also heal heroes which can be very useful. I like playing Deep Strike lists so i don't really need healing. 

Damage: unfortunately i do not own bladegheists but I would love play whith them. One thing I like to include thou is Cogs to more reliable deep strike. That 10+ unmodified charge is just a bonus but to actually get into the fight is gold worth. I usually play with chainrasp, spirit hosts and hexwraiths and i would gladly swap my hosts and horses for blades or reapers. 

Magic: I almost always include Reikenor and Olynder as my only spellcasters. Reikenor can cast cogs reliable and Olynder is a lvl 2 wizard. Reikenor can also cast soul cage easily but it has such a short range... 

GoS: the glass version isn't legal to play with any more so lantern is the only option. 

One important note if you're planing on expanding your army, consider Dreadblade as your general because being able to teleport and then use NHs command ability to teleport a unit to your general is really good. 

What lists do you tend to use? Can you show an example?

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11 hours ago, Aaranis said:

Thanks for your answers ! I never thought about the ST able to heal heroes, great tip. When did the Glass variant became illegal and why ? He's hardly gamebreaking. 

I plan on buying Dreadblades in my next purchases along with a KoS, he's the ideal commander with the teleport and a perfect bearer for the Aetherquartz Brooch. The unit teleportation ability is indeed very useful, I played a 200 IQ move once with it: I recalled my 2 Hexwraiths near my General, healed them 3 models back with Ruler of Hosts, and then charged the nearest unit with a 10" charge, rolling some nice hits that killed a lot of gobbos. It was a glorious move !

Do you like Spirit Hosts ? Their damage output seems laughable and they don't have a big board presence, capturing and holding objectives with them looks hazardous. I also can't justify running Reapers when Bladegheists are just Reapers +1, at least not in a pure Nighthaunt list.

The Cogs definitely interest me, but I'll use them at 1500 pts+, it's a lot of points for 1000 pts otherwise. Reikenor looks boss indeed. I love Kurdoss' model and lore but sadly he doesn't look terrifying on the table, except for stealing CPs.

Glass became illegal with the new GHB19 i think, he just didn't get any points and therefor isn't legal any more.  the reason is probably that he is a limited edition model and not available to everyone?! 

Spirit hosts (gonna call it SH), do i love the model? Yes. Do i think they are good? Not really. If you are playing with some heal combos then SH fast becomes a pain. To be able to resurrect a SH with a ST that's hard to roll that 3 if the ones left ain't hurt. GoS heal, oh man so many times i wanted to resurrect mu SH with a GoS just to see that one of the ****** have taken a wound  making the heal spell useless... I have tried a SH combo with multiple units and Olynder as general to return models but with low success. SH are kind of nice as tanks and consistent MW damage dealers but not so much more. i like to use them as low wound hero assassins but i'm striving more and more towards swapping them out for better models.  I will share my latest list where the SH actually had some purpose later in this post.

As you said, Cogs are great but costs too much for a 1000p list. and Reikenor is a very good caster for casting important spells like cogs. i run purple sun with him a lot as well 

10 hours ago, States said:

What lists do you tend to use? Can you show an example?

I attended a tournament a week ago (my second time ever) and went 3/0/2 playing a special deep strike list. On the way to the tournament i realised a change to the list i wanted to do and during the tournament i really felt that the change needed to be done. the change i wanted to do was dropping a 10 chainrasp for a cp and an endless spell, i will post the updated version because i truly think that one is better.  the extra cp is truly needed, do whatever with the 50p for endless spells

i faced Tzeentch(lost), Shootcast(win), Chargecast(win), Khorne(lost) and Grand host of Nagash (win)

This list tries to utilise the fact that + to hit buffs  affect sword of judgement!  Its hard but possible to get +3 in this list but super easy to get +2.  I try to instead of putting sword of judgement on a hero with many attacks i put it on a hero with few but reliable hits instead . most dmg in this list comes from LE and chainrasp + KoSoES
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Knight of Shrouds (100)
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
- Artefact: Dimensional Blade
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Lord Executioner (80)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
Execution Horde (100)
Extra Command Point (50)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

The basic tactic is to:

  • Hide Lord Executioner, Knight of Shrouds and all spirit hosts. 
  • deploy Reikenor outside of unbind range
  • The turn you see a weak spot next to an important hero or monster, cast cogs and deep strike it all.
  • place LE and KoS as close as possible, next to each other as well.
  • place SH where they fit.
  • start charge with LE and spend CP for reroll if needed
  • charge with SHs and reroll from KoS (but you most save 1 cp!)
  • charge with KoS if u want but i often just let him stay
  • activate CA from KoS
  • FIGHT!! 

KoS  CA + to hit bubble will reach LE and if the SHs are close then he gets the second + to hit. with this list LE took down a boodthirster and almost Arkhan (1 wound left). when meeting stormcast i didn't have good high value targets so then teleportation became the winning concept. 

Due to short range spells and deploying far back a powerful spell like purple sun could be a good way of making Reikenor a bigger threat. 

Spoiler

146177318_executioner2.jpg.c5b46adfdb9861577264a03653bf8ed5.jpg

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Oh I didn't know about the Sword of Judgement, it looks like the only way to make the Lord Executioner worth it, and if the combo rolls well... That Monster or Hero will die ! So you get +1 from the Batallion, +1 from KoS, and you can get +1 from Olynder if she casted her spell on your target. Even +2 if you have the CP to CA twice with the KoS. That looks kinda wacky to put in place though, with lots of "if". But if it worked for you I guess it's nice. Definitely want to try this out too now, I only need 3 Spirit Hosts boxes though haha ! I love these kind of combo-plans that require 20 events to work, it's really satisfying when it rolls out, like the Bravery bombs in LoG.

About your list it looks like the Hexwraiths are not necessary, but I think you spoke earlier about replacing them with Bladegheists when you'll have the models. If you drop 3 SH and the 5 Hexs you'll save 260 pts to buy 10 Bladegheists and 80 spare points, which greatly benefit from Cogs too, as they need to hit with Waves of Terror absolutely or else they're toast in the Activation Wars.

 

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24 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

Oh I didn't know about the Sword of Judgement, it looks like the only way to make the Lord Executioner worth it, and if the combo rolls well... That Monster or Hero will die ! So you get +1 from the Batallion, +1 from KoS, and you can get +1 from Olynder if she casted her spell on your target. Even +2 if you have the CP to CA twice with the KoS. That looks kinda wacky to put in place though, with lots of "if". But if it worked for you I guess it's nice. Definitely want to try this out too now, I only need 3 Spirit Hosts boxes though haha ! I love these kind of combo-plans that require 20 events to work, it's really satisfying when it rolls out, like the Bravery bombs in LoG.

About your list it looks like the Hexwraiths are not necessary, but I think you spoke earlier about replacing them with Bladegheists when you'll have the models. If you drop 3 SH and the 5 Hexs you'll save 260 pts to buy 10 Bladegheists and 80 spare points, which greatly benefit from Cogs too, as they need to hit with Waves of Terror absolutely or else they're toast in the Activation Wars.

there are a lot of "if" but cogs makes the "if"s possible.  

Never thought of stacking KoS, that makes things a lot easier!

if you want to try it i would recommend using proxy for the SH, because the list is counted by ether play the control game and screen away deep strike possibilities, or by having small unimportant heroes. LE is USELESS if not fighting heroes or monsters so it can be a struggle against some lists.

Hexwraiths are totally unnecessary! i just use them as objective  grabbers, by including blades in the list would give the list some other sources of punch 

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I usually run 2 large clumps of SH's as an Anvil that tarpits well with RotSH, and with a STorment they can sometimes dish out some terrifying damage.

Bladegheists in either 2 clumps of 15 or 3 groups of 10, with a KoSoS lurking to buff whoever needs more hitting power, and a second Torment floating in the middle as the Hammer

And either a max size group of Myrmourns or a Mourngul careening around in the middle of it all 

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32 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Would having 2 mournguls stack the -1 to hit aura or just spread it around?

They do not stack, would be very interesting if they did thou. If that was the case it would be very good to have a pair roaming around like two ghostly brothers. 👻 👻 

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I keep reading about the Spirit Hosts' damage output but after doing the maths they're really underwhelming. 12 of them (480 pts) rerolling 1s to Hit dish out on average 3,8W + 12,7 MW against 4+ save, while 30 Reapers under the same buffs deal 20,7W for 420 pts. SH have a smaller footprint, allowing them to engage better but then have less numbers for objectives. Both have almost the same wound count and same save. SH works better with RotSH though, that's for sure. So Reapers look really better than them, and I don't even like Reapers when I can have Bladegheists.

I admit that if you're rolling hot the SH will be great armour killers but against tarpit they lose the advantage. 

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45 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

I keep reading about the Spirit Hosts' damage output but after doing the maths they're really underwhelming. 12 of them (480 pts) rerolling 1s to Hit dish out on average 3,8W + 12,7 MW against 4+ save, while 30 Reapers under the same buffs deal 20,7W for 420 pts. SH have a smaller footprint, allowing them to engage better but then have less numbers for objectives. Both have almost the same wound count and same save. SH works better with RotSH though, that's for sure. So Reapers look really better than them, and I don't even like Reapers when I can have Bladegheists.

I admit that if you're rolling hot the SH will be great armour killers but against tarpit they lose the advantage. 

I positively love SHs. They are not there to deal some proper damage... until they do! I usually run 6 SHs as a serious screen / very mobile tarpit unit in conjunction with a Dreadblade Harrow. As a general, with Gryph-feather Charm (he has a tendency to get shot off the board quickly...) and Ruler of the Spirit Hosts, it is very hard for almost everything to chew past that screen. Sure, your horde-style filth of choice can still do it, but when your opponent think they can smash them in one turn with their big chunky hero... well, 3 wound apiece, 4+ ethereal, 6+ shrug, D3 models back each hero phase for free, and some MWs back... there are worst things in (un-)life. Add to that the usual Dreadblade trick (Spectral Summons) and suddenly you can tarpit a Maw-krusha for a couple of turn while you get stuff done elsewhere on the board. Were if not for the sheer pain of building the models, I would probably run even more...

SHs are not there to deal with tarpit... they are the tarpit, and an excellent one at that as well (which is fair, given the 120pts / three cost). Want to kill some stuff? As you said, Reapers are one solid answer to that (vampire lord and mounted KoS, 2 CPs later that's 80 attacks from a unit of 20 in two ranks...), SHs plays another role (at least for me!)

P.S. Nine SHs mauled a Maw-krusha to death in the space of two battlerounds... when the 6's spike, there's no escape!

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Yeah I see what you mean. I'll definitely give them a try because I can't go wrong with 9 of them as they might be better in their future battletome anyway. 

Sauriv's tactic about the Lord Executioner really talks to me, I've thrown dice a few times to simulate, and with +3 to Hit (really doable) and the Cogs, I see them DS, fighting once with WoT, and then again in the fight phase. The Lord Executioner dealt an average of 9-11 MW by phase, and with twice that I figure I can easily kill a Magmadroth on the charge. With the innate 5+++ against MW of the Lord I can even survive the lava skin passive (it stacks with the innate 6+++ right ?). 

So in short thank you for the idea Sauriv, I don't know if you developed this yourself but in any case I'm really enthusiastic about this and already wrote an experimental list with this Batallion and the Shroudguard. It looks fragile with around 93 wounds but should hit like a truck.

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11 minutes ago, Aaranis said:

Yeah I see what you mean. I'll definitely give them a try because I can't go wrong with 9 of them as they might be better in their future battletome anyway. 

Sauriv's tactic about the Lord Executioner really talks to me, I've thrown dice a few times to simulate, and with +3 to Hit (really doable) and the Cogs, I see them DS, fighting once with WoT, and then again in the fight phase. The Lord Executioner dealt an average of 9-11 MW by phase, and with twice that I figure I can easily kill a Magmadroth on the charge. With the innate 5+++ against MW of the Lord I can even survive the lava skin passive (it stacks with the innate 6+++ right ?). 

So in short thank you for the idea Sauriv, I don't know if you developed this yourself but in any case I'm really enthusiastic about this and already wrote an experimental list with this Batallion and the Shroudguard. It looks fragile with around 93 wounds but should hit like a truck.

Hehe no problem, I'm glad to be able to inspire someone to an unusual list. And yes, a totally original idea of mine 😊

I'm having plans to put a mourngul into the mix as well, can post again how it worked out 👍 

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Oh just noticed the WoT works on UNMODIFIED 10+, so Cogs don't proc it easier, it still makes charging from DS far easier though. But the Emperor Executioner (he deserves this title with such lethality) will most likely fight once then. No matter I'm known for doing these 10+ charges anyway, I once rolled three of those in a single Charge phase haha !

Well congrats for the idea, it's still niche but there's always a Dragon or something that needs killing. And making this gorgeous model usable and lethal is a victory in itself. It's 360 + 80 + 100 pts too minimum so not cheap.

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21 hours ago, Aaranis said:

So in short thank you for the idea Sauriv, I don't know if you developed this yourself but in any case I'm really enthusiastic about this and already wrote an experimental list with this Batallion and the Shroudguard. It looks fragile with around 93 wounds but should hit like a truck.

I run in some occasions two Shroudguard battalions, one lead by a mounted KoS (2 units of 5 Bladegheists) and the other led by Reikenor (also with 2 units of 5 Bladegheists). The Kos-led one is there to deep strike, I found that one unit of Bladegheists at the time can work (the 5+ shrug from the battalion basically grants you one more turn with those small units alive if paired with a ST); the one led by Reikenor is there to run across the board and keep that squishy caster of ours safe enough.

I'm not entirely convinced it's worth paying for two Shroudguard battallions, but you do get 2 CPs and two artefacts on top of the (awesome) 5+. If only the latter would apply to the KoS or Reiky as well...

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1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

I run in some occasions two Shroudguard battalions, one lead by a mounted KoS (2 units of 5 Bladegheists) and the other led by Reikenor (also with 2 units of 5 Bladegheists). The Kos-led one is there to deep strike, I found that one unit of Bladegheists at the time can work (the 5+ shrug from the battalion basically grants you one more turn with those small units alive if paired with a ST); the one led by Reikenor is there to run across the board and keep that squishy caster of ours safe enough.

I'm not entirely convinced it's worth paying for two Shroudguard battallions, but you do get 2 CPs and two artefacts on top of the (awesome) 5+. If only the latter would apply to the KoS or Reiky as well...

That's an interesting idea to go MSU. It multiplies your charge targets. At 1000 pts I run a squad of 10 DSing alongside my KoSoES and go for that 10+ charge even of it costs me a CP. With 5 guys you have less impact on the charge but at least there's got to be one of them who'll succeed. 220 pts of Batallions for so few models looks harsh though, but yeah, 2 CP and 2 Artefacts.

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2 hours ago, Souleater said:

Assuming a purchase via an online retailer, is the Court of the Craven King a good start in terms of playability?

I'm wondering about grabbing one to add to the Mortal Realms Nighthaunt (assuming the magazine goes ahead)

 

Thank you.

It looks awesome. Won't be getting it myself as already have the models but if you're just starting NH it's a great place to begin. 

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2 hours ago, Souleater said:

Assuming a purchase via an online retailer, is the Court of the Craven King a good start in terms of playability?

I'm wondering about grabbing one to add to the Mortal Realms Nighthaunt (assuming the magazine goes ahead)

 

Thank you.

I like the box - but that's because I unconditionally love our beuatiful NHs.

You get only one hero - incidentally, one that brings ZERO synergies/buffs onto the board (ok, ok, Deathless Spirits, but other than that...). I like said hero very much indeed, but I believe there are much better choices out there for 200 pts.

Having said that, the units: I'd say that's a decent mix. No utterly useless ones (say, Glaivewraith Stalkers...) and a good blend of useful thing - IF, taken in bigger units. Thing is, I'd probably buy two of these boxes (20 Reapers, 20 Harridans, 20 Chainrasps, 20 Bladeghiests... now we are talking), were if not for the fact that you get two Craven Kings. The model is such a joy to paint that I might still do it, though ;)

So yes, if you have a stash of NH heroes somewhere to add these guys to, and/or you can double the purchase to get a solid force going... yep, why not? Looks cool to me!

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