AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Squeaky101]

Now having had a few games with Nighthaunt I can see that it does fall behind in some areas but at least is fairly flexible in unit choices, sizes (which I wasn't really expecting to be a legitimate topic for discussion), and strategies. Coming from LoN, the healing in Nighthaunt leaves a lot to be desired, and torments seem to be the only thing to bring some decent and consistent healing. I really miss those gravesites.

I'm tinkering around with what units I should be bringing in from reserve to fight important enemies in the backline. What units are good candidates for bringing in this way? Current strategy is sending in olynder and my spirit hosts, however I do miss out on her plethora of hero phase abilities that turn, and possibly the turn after before I can finally move her. For people who run spirit hosts (which I know aren't the best unit right now), how do you utilize them, and what unit size do you use? I'd run MSU but the Ruler of the Spirit Hosts trait can be tricky to use with it, so I'm planning to run a squad of 9. They seem to work best on sticking to large bulky models, so they can all wrap around it and getting those MWs through really helps when they've got a 3+ save.

Also something I was never really sure about was, do the GoS and torment's auras apply to themselves?

[Tropical Ghost General]

So who else is keen to know whether we'll get any ally options with the new bonereapers? 

I have started running a local narrative/open play night as a counter to the ridiculous arms race currently going on with the AoS meta. And last night I dusted off my Fec and took a fluffy and naff FEC list. Just basic ghouls and one blob of 6 horrors. Jebus Christmas, the horrors just mutilated whatever they touch. And it made me realise just how far behind us ghosts are. It's great to hear that we've had some good placings in tournaments recently, but it doesn't change the fact that we are going to struggle if the next slew of books follow the current trend for being gross and OP. 

[Neffelo]

36 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

So who else is keen to know whether we'll get any ally options with the new bonereapers? 

I have started running a local narrative/open play night as a counter to the ridiculous arms race currently going on with the AoS meta. And last night I dusted off my Fec and took a fluffy and naff FEC list. Just basic ghouls and one blob of 6 horrors. Jebus Christmas, the horrors just mutilated whatever they touch. And it made me realise just how far behind us ghosts are. It's great to hear that we've had some good placings in tournaments recently, but it doesn't change the fact that we are going to struggle if the next slew of books follow the current trend for being gross and OP. 

I am going to be picking them up as my second Death army anyway, so it would be nice if allies is available. They will likely be my standin for Death until our Ghosts get fixed anyway, which may be a long time.  The nice thing is I am a big fan of the models. I have a Necron 40k Army, and these guys fit right in there.

It sucks, but it's pretty clear at this point that we have the worst 2.0 battletome. I also don't think things are going to get fixed until Nighthaunt units are only allies to the other Death factions. LoN being able to take Grimghasts really hurt our most viable unit in the most recent round of points changes.

 

[Battlefury]

Hello there!

Thinking getting into the army, since I once played them in a small tournament and had fun with them.

Would like to know if Nighthaunt itself as standalone is worth it and performs good?
Coming from Khorne I know what it means to have the need to buff units with heroes.

What would you suggest? Better to take Legion of grief, or play them as LoN?
Or is NH itself viable?

Want to play them competetive in tournaments.

Cheers///

[Tropical Ghost General]

14 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Want to play them competetive in tournaments

As much as I love spooks, you'll have better success in LoG or using ghosts in LoN tbh. 

While we can get excellent movement, pure NH lack the current must haves to be competitive, summoning and a decent stake in the activation wars. Without either of these, we will always be in the lower tiers. 

[Dexter]

2° place with NH pure (my First tournament).

MSU. 1500 Points 

Game 1 : Gloomspizte. Total Commitment. DRAW

Game 2: FEC. Total Conquest. Victory.

Game 3: Beast of Chaos. Burned ground. Víctory.

MVP: Dreadblade!!!

 

Sorry for my english

 

 

[Evil Bob]

5 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Snip

What would you suggest? Better to take Legion of grief, or play them as LoN?

The Nighthaunt release did a very significant thing.  It revitalized Battletome:Legions of Nagash.  Allot of undead stuff didn’t translate smoothly to AoS.  We’re paying a points premium on Skeletons for physiology buff that everyone else gets for free.  The Devs tried to fix it with extra arrack dice on unit size and it can work out depending on the circumstances.  Power-creep has been an issue, although some might call that “fixing” dysfunctional armies/models.

I love Chainrasp battle line for BT:LoN.  Mostly in blocks of twenty because they remain tanky even to everything except really massed dice.  The point savings going back into high value units is nice too.  The extra points over minimal zombie wolves is countered by the fighting capacity and tanking capabilities (depending on other elites the wolves still come out but only one unit instead of two).

Grimghasts are often a better elite option to others.  Graveguard need a new warscroll because GW can’t lower the points enough to work in this meta (counter-point: with the Grand Host one can go all-in on Graveguard and possibly do something).  Other elites that can work are pinned to a specific allegiance.

Guardian of Souls meshes well in Sacrament lists.

Haven’t cared for the results with the other newer Nighthaunt options.  Of course the really big downside has been not using Bladeghiests.  I love them, both spooky and kill-y.  Being able to pull from combat and swoop back in hits on a supernatural etherial feel.

 

In summation: A few options of Nighthaunt thrive in Battletome:Legions of Nagash.  It can be competitive, power creep will make it more challenging.

[Tropical Ghost General]

2 hours ago, Dexter said:

2° place with NH pure (my First tournament

Congratulations. 

How many players took part? Were realms being used? 

[Dexter]

13 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Felicidades. 

¿Cuántos jugadores participaron? ¿Se estaban utilizando 

 

1) Slaanesh 3/0/0
2) Nighthaunt 2/1/0
3) Kharadron 2/0/1
4) Seraphon 1/1/1
5) G. Host  Nagash 1/1/1
6) Stormcast 1/1/1
7) Nurgle 1/1/1
8) Beast of Chaos 1/0/2
9) Legión of Grief 0/2/1
10) Glomspite 0/2/1
11) Tzeentch 0/1/2
12) FEC 0/0/3

Realms? NO.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Dexter

[N.I.B.]

On 9/6/2019 at 12:09 PM, dmorley21 said:

More list talk... a Nighthaunt player finished 11th at NOVA with this list:

Harrow w/ midnight time

KoSoES w/ balefire blade

2 Torments

Reikenor

3 x 10 Chainrasp Horde

1 x 30 Grimghast Reapers

2 x 10 Bladeghesit Revenants

2 x 5 Bladegheist Revenants

1 x 4 Myrmourn Banshess

Shroudguard

 

What are everyone's thoughts on that list? It's not for me, but I really like the list design apart from the artefacts. Having one big block as a threat to draw fire/attention from your smaller units seems like it could be worthwhile. 

What hero did he put in the Shroudgard, KoSoES or Reikenor?

I second that I'd like to hear how it plays. 

[dmorley21]

7 hours ago, N.I.B. said:

What hero did he put in the Shroudgard, KoSoES or Reikenor?

I second that I'd like to hear how it plays. 

I have no idea; I simply saw the thread in another list and thought it merited discussion here. 

Another list I saw on Twitter being run by Mike Wilson (who is a really good AoS player from the UK scene from what I gather - I'm a newbie in the US) had some success at a small one day tournament. 

This one featured Arkhan, Lady O, Reikenor, a GoS, a ST, 2 x 10 Chainrasps, 1 x 20 Reapers, and 2 x 10 Bladegheists. 

I had not looked at Arkhan too closely before and didn't realize he could cast other wizards' spells and extend the range. It seems like the strategy in that list was to use a combo of Grief Stricken, Shademist, and Soul Cage to soften up a unit for the Reapers and/or Blades. 

I also wonder if NH could run a strong endless spell spam list. Arkhan with two +2 casts, Reikenor with one +3, and a wychlight lantern GoS with one +1 cast could easily pump out four endless spells. 

In that scenario, I'd opt for Purple Sun, Aethervoid Pendulum, Geminids, and Quicksilver Swords probably for maximum carnage. I've only used Cogs before... has anyone ever tried endless spells spam with NH? Being able to hide units in the underworld could really make it interesting IMO. 

[miguel_fernan]

How do you guys feel about Kurdoss? Played an event this weekend and got a credit store coupon as prize, and it is the only unit Im missing from the army. Could get more harridans or anything similar with it but I love the aesthetics of this model. Thanks in advance!

[Panzer]

He looks awesome, is decent and it's the only thing you are still missing from the range. I think the decision is an easy one. ^^

[N.I.B.]

Alex Gonzalez seems to be the highest ranked Death player currently, looks like he favours Nighthaunt. I think this is his LVO list:

Nighthaunt

Mortal Realm: Ghur

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed  - General - Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts - Artefact: Midnight Tome

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern - Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist - Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar

Spirit Torment - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm

Reikenor the Grimhailer 

20 x Chainrasp Horde 

20 x Chainrasp Horde 

10 x Grimghast Reapers 

10 x Bladegheist Revenants 

10 x Bladegheist Revenants 

2 x Chainghasts 

Black Coach 

 Chainguard 

Shroudguard 

Total: 1990 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 2 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 109

[Sauriv]

10 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

I also wonder if NH could run a strong endless spell spam list. Arkhan with two +2 casts, Reikenor with one +3, and a wychlight lantern GoS with one +1 cast could easily pump out four endless spells. 

Could be fun, but a heads up, wizards can only cast one endless spell per turn. This becomes a big problem if some of your wizards are killed. 

[Thamalys]

On 9/10/2019 at 7:10 AM, miguel_fernan said:

How do you guys feel about Kurdoss? Played an event this weekend and got a credit store coupon as prize, and it is the only unit Im missing from the army. Could get more harridans or anything similar with it but I love the aesthetics of this model. Thanks in advance!

I absolutely love the model - it's such a joy to paint as well... on the tabletop, though:

- 1000 pts: don't even think about it - seriously, go for Lady Olynder instead (what you get for a few points more... amazing stuff).

- 2000 pts: I've tried him in multiple occasions, with very mixed results. The main problem with this lad is that he's utterly unreliable. Sure, he can deal an impressive amount of damage (chiefly against the enemey general...), which is an ability something that NHs sorely miss. However, you can't really count on him to deliver consistently.  But then, what are you left with? Seven rather squishy wounds, no buffs to anybody around him, and very erratic "I've stolen your CP on a 5+". Not great...

I have recently tried to swap Kurdoss with 5 blood knights (same pts!). Alright, they are not as good as they are in LoB (they're still not summonable and tricky to heal there too, though...), but the punch they can deliver on the charge is something way more reliable than Kurdoss. You can deepstrike the latter turn 1 against the enemy general, but any decent opponent would make it impossible - and there you have it, that lazy Craven King ambling on a 6" move. Conevrsely, blood knights move 10", typically 12" in NHs (if you're not running the cogs, you're not really playing NHs).

In a nutshell: amazing model, real fun to play with (when he spikes, man, he really spikes...), but not reliable enough, in my very personal opinion, to be included in what people would probably call a competitive list (assuming such a thing makes sense as we speak with our beautiful flimsy ghosts).

P.S. All of this coming from a relatively new player currently losing an awful lot of tournament games with NHs, so take it with a grain of salt!

[miguel_fernan]

1 hour ago, Thamalys said:

I absolutely love the model - it's such a joy to paint as well... on the tabletop, though:

- 1000 pts: don't even think about it - seriously, go for Lady Olynder instead (what you get for a few points more... amazing stuff).

- 2000 pts: I've tried him in multiple occasions, with very mixed results. The main problem with this lad is that he's utterly unreliable. Sure, he can deal an impressive amount of damage (chiefly against the enemey general...), which is an ability something that NHs sorely miss. However, you can't really count on him to deliver consistently.  But then, what are you left with? Seven rather squishy wounds, no buffs to anybody around him, and very erratic "I've stolen your CP on a 5+". Not great...

I have recently tried to swap Kurdoss with 5 blood knights (same pts!). Alright, they are not as good as they are in LoB (they're still not summonable and tricky to heal there too, though...), but the punch they can deliver on the charge is something way more reliable than Kurdoss. You can deepstrike the latter turn 1 against the enemy general, but any decent opponent would make it impossible - and there you have it, that lazy Craven King ambling on a 6" move. Conevrsely, blood knights move 10", typically 12" in NHs (if you're not running the cogs, you're not really playing NHs).

In a nutshell: amazing model, real fun to play with (when he spikes, man, he really spikes...), but not reliable enough, in my very personal opinion, to be included in what people would probably call a competitive list (assuming such a thing makes sense as we speak with our beautiful flimsy ghosts).

P.S. All of this coming from a relatively new player currently losing an awful lot of tournament games with NHs, so take it with a grain of salt!

Thanks for the detailed answer!

[dmorley21]

Hey everyone.

So I went to play my first game at a local store today (I have only previously played with friends before at homes before) and turns out what I thought was a drop-in event was actually a one day tournament. So I played my first tournament! Wow, did I learn a lot! I finished 2-1 and the third game came down to where the main objective on shifting objectives ended up. Here's a write up:

First, the armies were 1500 points. This made me really just throw a list together without a lot of time to think about it as I've only built 1000 and 2000 pt lists before. The scoring was 6 pts for a major victory, 4 pts for a minor, 3 for a draw, 1 for a lost, and 2 for each hidden objective you got. I really struggled grabbing the hidden objectives so I finished 7th out of 10 despite my record. My list was:

Harrow (general, RotSH, aetherquartz brooch, soul cage)

Reikenor

Guardian of Souls (shademist, pendant of the fell wind)

Cairn Wraith

30 Reapers

10 Reapers

4 Stalkers

4 Stalkers

10 Chainrasp Horde

10 Chainrasp Horde

Command Point

Death Stalkers battalion

My first game was total commitment against Dispossessed. He had 30 Ironbreakers (IB),  10 IB, 20 Irondrakes (ID), 20 ID and some heroes. He castled on his objectives and teleported a unit of 20 Irondrakes to try to take on of mine. I didn't know he could do that, but I was able prevent the Irondrakes from taking my objective using the Harrow and his teleport/summon combo. I ignored his castle on one of the objectives and launched my unit of 30 Reapers into an Ironbreaker castle on the other objective. I had soul marked the Ironbreakers and while I never destroyed the whole unit, I was able to reduce them so that I started claiming his objective. This was definitely a learning game for me and probably should have been a lot easier. I ended up winning 16-14 and didn't get either of my secondaries (destroy his biggest unit and take 50% of his army's points).

My second game was against Skaven playing relocation orb. Based on what I know, it was a weaker Skaven list. 2x40 Clanrats, Thanquol Boneripper, 2 Warp Lightning Cannons, a Grey Seer, an Engineer, and a fighty hero. I put my entire battalion in the underworld, and gave him first turn. He scored the objective and I tried to deepstrike into his back line to kill his wizard heroes because that was one of my secondaries. This failed and I quickly lost my Harrow, 10 Chainrasp, and Wraith. My 10 Reapers I deep struck and charged into his unit of Clanrats that had taken the objective.  They had been soul marked, I ended up killing eighteen and was able to take the objective. I also deep struck a unit of Stalkers to block a second gnawhole. I gave him first turn on turn two and the objective moved out of his reach. He killed the rest of my unit of 10 Reapers. On my turn I was able to deepstrike my other unit of Stalkers onto the objective. He won the third turn and decided to go first and took the objective. I put my 30 Reapers around my GoS with Pendant of the Fell Wind and just waited for turn 4 to see where the objective would go. It went back toward the middle of the board and I charged my Reapers, Reikenor, and remaining Chainrasps into what remained of his Clanrats and smaller heroes was able to keep it. I was able to avoid combat with Thanquol the whole game, but he did light me up with shooting and magic a few times. Overall I felt better about this game and felt like apart from a failed attempt at taking out the wizards for a secondary, I did pretty well.

The third game was against Slaanesh... but no Keepers. Two units of 20 deamonettes in a battalion and two units of 10 Striders with some heroes. I really played poorly this game and almost got tabled by the end of turn 3 (that's where we ran out of time). Still, it did come down to where the main objective ended up on our final turn. I say I played poorly because I could have easily won this game had I hidden my Harrow better and deep struck on turn one into his daemonettes (destroying one of his units before he destroyed one of mine would have given me a secondary).

A few overall thoughts:

I never used Ruler of the Spirit Hosts or Spectral Lure - there really wasn't an opportunity. The Dreadblade Harrow, Pendant of the Fell Wind, and Reapers were the MVPs. My spells never did anything. The Death Stalkers battalion is hit or miss depending on the opponent and whether or not there's an obvious unit to soul mark, but it really chews through whatever it soul marks. The Stalkers were actually good at deep striking onto objectives and blocking the gnaw holes and the Wraith did some damage with its frightful touch, but they remain an additional tax for the Death Stalkers battalion. Command Points were essential for me, and it's important to always have one back to do the Harrow combo. But fishing for Wave of Terror was very effective. Reikenor was able to clear chaff units trying to grab objectives, but I never had the opportunity to cast Soul Cage. Finally, there were a lot of instances where I wished I had a Shrieker Host battalion and could block Inspiring Presence and make my opponent re-roll 1's for the battleshock test.

Overall though, as we all know, this army is all about the movement shenanigans. A Harrow as your general and a hero with Pendant of the Fell Wind are essentials IMO. Missions with moving objectives or main objectives are really fun to play as Nighthaunt even though I got outmaneuvered by Slaanesh.

[dmorley21]

Discussion has really dried up in this thread.

However, what do we think about the new Bonesplitterz build that can ignore ethereal? I've never played Bonesplitterz, so I'm curious to hear the thoughts of others. 

[Platypus]

Well, most Bonesplitterz units don't have Rend anyway (currently, of course). I don't think it will be an issue.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Platypus

[Maxo Bug]

It may be a silly post to make, but here we go anyways:

Are the nighthaunt in such a bad spot? All I read is that they are lackluster or that they should be updated or that they were half-assed.
What's the issue? It kinda sucks that now I see my once favorite army as "meh", and can't help it with all the comments in that regard. 😅

[Scurvydog]

9 hours ago, Maxo Bug said:

It may be a silly post to make, but here we go anyways:

Are the nighthaunt in such a bad spot? All I read is that they are lackluster or that they should be updated or that they were half-assed.
What's the issue? It kinda sucks that now I see my once favorite army as "meh", and can't help it with all the comments in that regard. 😅

They are not in a good spot for higher competetive play. They will crumble is most cases against top tier army lists, but might get a lucky win here and there depending often on wave of terror rolls.

The NH book is the only 2.0 book to have no variety through "stormhosts" which could have gone a long way in giving them some flavor, as it is now all the troops are so samey and most games play the same with them. They are extremely expensive per wound, depending on their often 4+ ethereal saves and frankly lackluster healing.

They have some decent spells, but no good casters with bonuses that matter except 1 named character, which results in many spells failing and getting unbound by better wizards.

They also have great difficulty getting through armor, as nearly noone has rend 2 and your overall damage output is in generel unimpressive unless you get wave of terror charges.

They main strength is being relatively fast and flying, so you really want to play smart and play to the objectives at all times, as a straight up brawl will often be a lost cause.

[dmorley21]

13 hours ago, Maxo Bug said:

It may be a silly post to make, but here we go anyways:

Are the nighthaunt in such a bad spot? All I read is that they are lackluster or that they should be updated or that they were half-assed.
What's the issue? It kinda sucks that now I see my once favorite army as "meh", and can't help it with all the comments in that regard. 😅

Honestly, NH were never a strong faction competitively... even when the book came out. 

The activation wars and amount of mortal wounds since then have only made things worse along with losing access to the mortality glass wielding Guardian of Souls (I still would love to know the backstory there). 

Still, NH simply don't appear at major events, and if they do it's not top players and it's not a competitive list. 

I haven't played top lists, but have found success against my opponents by using the Death Stalkers battalion. I've heard from others having success with the Death Riders battalion... some even running it as two battalions. I've seen one top player run a magic heavy list with Arkhan/Lady O/Reikenor/GoS and have success by doing combos of Grief Stricken/Soul Cage/Shademist to neutralize or delete one opposing unit a turn. The MSU lists seem to have some potential. 

Then there's Legion of Grief, which has had some success competitively. Being able to revive units of Myrmourns/Reapers/Bladegheists or bravery bomb for Tomb Banshees and Harridans seems successful.

So, I wouldn't give up on the faction.  

[Evil Bob]

15 hours ago, Maxo Bug said:

Are the nighthaunt in such a bad spot? All I read is that they are lackluster or that they should be updated or that they were half-assed.
😅

A friend who plays Slave of Darkness thinks Nighthaunt is just fine.

1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

Honestly, NH were never a strong faction competitively... even when the book came out. 

The activation wars and amount of mortal wounds since then have only made things worse along with losing access to the mortality glass wielding Guardian of Souls (I still would love to know the backstory there). 

Still, NH simply don't appear at major events, and if they do it's not top players and it's not a competitive list. 

I haven't played top lists, but have found success against my opponents by using the Death Stalkers battalion. I've heard from others having success with the Death Riders battalion... some even running it as two battalions. I've seen one top player run a magic heavy list with Arkhan/Lady O/Reikenor/GoS and have success by doing combos of Grief Stricken/Soul Cage/Shademist to neutralize or delete one opposing unit a turn. The MSU lists seem to have some potential. 

Then there's Legion of Grief, which has had some success competitively. Being able to revive units of Myrmourns/Reapers/Bladegheists or bravery bomb for Tomb Banshees and Harridans seems successful.

So, I wouldn't give up on the faction.  

Well said!

As an all around Death player Nighthaunt is a nice way to mix things up some weeks with some rotation.  This faction has certainly made playing Battletomb:LoN different and new again.

 Other than the usual complaints my biggest issue is how repetitively force composition is becoming.  I’d like to get away from The Spirit of Torment and Guardian of Souls but using other minor hero options is SO terrible.  Obviously the solution is to bring the garbage options against the SoD player for a fair/fun battle.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Evil Bob
Minor fix

[Tropical Ghost General]

So Warhammer World GT Finals was this weekend. 

Pretty poor attendance of DEATH armies.
Only 5 out of 65.
3 x FEC, 1 x TK and 1 x Grand Alliance.
None of the 5 LoN legions or NH.
😢

This will change obviously when bonereapers drop, but I can see LoN and NH getting pushed further and further into the fringes.