AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[punkycloud]

Came second in a 2 day event this weekend going 4-1. Ran a dreadblade as general for teleporting shinanigans.

My question is is cogs essential for NH? I made only one 9" charge following teleporting all weekend, and while it didn't result in punishing me it did mean on a couple of occasions I was banking on the double turn to enable me to get the unit in before I lost it. 

I don't typically put stuff in deepstrike for the same reason, especially as I need run fell wind pendant so normally have plenty of movement, cogs would also give me the confidence to deploy in deepstrike knowing they could drop and have a reasonable chance of hitting something that turn. 

[Maridius]

5 hours ago, Curzex said:

MSU is your way ( multiple small units) 

Try to get olyndder reikanor guadian of soul and Knight of.shourd.

The endless spell cronogmatic coggs is core for.this armie.

Need bladegheist revenats for MSU.

5 of this guys do 15 attcks ay 3/3 at charge just get at.least 2 units

Buy one black coatch. Is good and needed for the Battalion that gives you free hits at 9+ instead 10+.

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Mortal Realm: Hysh

 

Leaders

Dreadblade Harrow (90)

- General

- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 

- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 

Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)

- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)

- Lore of the Underworlds: Spectral Tether

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)

- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind 

Kurdoss Valentian, the Craven King (200)

 

Battleline

5 x Hexwraiths (140)

5 x Hexwraiths (140)

10 x Chainrasp Horde (80)

 

Units

5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)

5 x Bladegheist Revenants (90)

2 x Chainghasts (70)

 

Behemoths

Black Coach (260)

 

Battalions

Deathriders (130)

Shroudguard (110)

 

Endless Spells / Terrain

Chronomantic Cogs (80)

 

Total: 1990 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 2

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 88

This is a good example of competitive list

Thank you so much for youre help. Im gonna try this out when I complete it and see how it works. Thank you once again.

[Spears]

13 hours ago, Maridius said:

Thank you so much for youre help. Im gonna try this out when I complete it and see how it works. Thank you once again.

I would definitely do some digging through this thread and competitive lists before thinking about purchasing that list above.  Its hellishly light on bodies and is relying heavily on some of our arguably weakest units to do the heavy listing.

Msu is definitely a way to play night haunt but that generally suggests running lots of units, which this list doesn't have. 

[Maridius]

50 minutes ago, Spears said:

I would definitely do some digging through this thread and competitive lists before thinking about purchasing that list above.  Its hellishly light on bodies and is relying heavily on some of our arguably weakest units to do the heavy listing.

Msu is definitely a way to play night haunt but that generally suggests running lots of units, which this list doesn't have. 

Well do  you have any army of youre own that I can try? I will be doing proxy plays with my friends sometimes this week. 

[Spears]

This is my usual list, you can play around with breaking units down into  smaller chunks depending on your play style.  Personally I like larger units as they feel more impactful but that's purely personal preference. The last 90 points can be used to flavour maybe with an extra hero or expanding some of the bladegheists. A bit og jiggling lets you run max Blaedgheists units but I find them really unwieldy and hard to keep in buff range.

Allegiance: Death
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
Spirit Torment (120)
Spirit Torment (120)
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (220)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
15 x Bladegheist Revenants (270)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
Shroudguard (110)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 1910 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

[Tropical Ghost General]

So I ran Riek and purple sun at a tournament last month and it was swingy (like a lot of things in our army 😂) but very effective when it went off. I have another one in a few weeks and am taking the same list.

Tbh MSUs is the way to go with ghosts. We have no counters to the current gross stuff in the game, such as fyreslayers or Slaanesh or Skaven, we have no reliable way to take part in the activation wars, but we can do movement shenanigans better than most. Hopefully after Mawtribes, orruk tribes and cities of sigmar drop, we can see whether the recent slew of books that have been stupid (Skaven, FEC but only gristlegore, Slaanesh and Fyreslayers) are just anomalies or whether the other books (Khorne, Sylvaneth, BoC, Gloomspite) are actually the odd balls in not being broken AF. I'm hoping that the new books aren't stupidly broken, but it depends on who is taking lead writer on them, as you can see the general trend as to which books are bent AF and who has had a consistent input to their creation.

[dmorley21]

17 hours ago, punkycloud said:

Came second in a 2 day event this weekend going 4-1. Ran a dreadblade as general for teleporting shinanigans.

My question is is cogs essential for NH? I made only one 9" charge following teleporting all weekend, and while it didn't result in punishing me it did mean on a couple of occasions I was banking on the double turn to enable me to get the unit in before I lost it. 

I don't typically put stuff in deepstrike for the same reason, especially as I need run fell wind pendant so normally have plenty of movement, cogs would also give me the confidence to deploy in deepstrike knowing they could drop and have a reasonable chance of hitting something that turn. 

Way to go! I'm having trouble fitting Cogs into lists with it going up in points, but it's still important for me because I do like to deepstrike. It just adds something else for my opponents to think about even if it doesn't work for me.

1 hour ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

So I ran Riek and purple sun at a tournament last month and it was swingy (like a lot of things in our army 😂) but very effective when it went off. I have another one in a few weeks and am taking the same list.

Tbh MSUs is the way to go with ghosts. We have no counters to the current gross stuff in the game, such as fyreslayers or Slaanesh or Skaven, we have no reliable way to take part in the activation wars, but we can do movement shenanigans better than most. Hopefully after Mawtribes, orruk tribes and cities of sigmar drop, we can see whether the recent slew of books that have been stupid (Skaven, FEC but only gristlegore, Slaanesh and Fyreslayers) are just anomalies or whether the other books (Khorne, Sylvaneth, BoC, Gloomspite) are actually the odd balls in not being broken AF. I'm hoping that the new books aren't stupidly broken, but it depends on who is taking lead writer on them, as you can see the general trend as to which books are bent AF and who has had a consistent input to their creation.

I agree about Slaanesh and Skaven being probelms for Nighthaunt, but I don't think Fyreslayers are as bad. They're a slower army, so we can dance around them pretty well. I also typically run 60 Reapers in a Death Stalkers battalion, which can chew through their slow, death star builds. I've started looking at other, MSU style builds, but if you know you're playing Fyreslayers, that's the way to go.

[Tropical Ghost General]

I find cogs is a mixed blessing, in that for all the benefit that we get from it, it doesn't help towards getting WoT and only adds to the overall speed that your opponent will have in the following turn.

 

[dmorley21]

14 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

I find cogs is a mixed blessing, in that for all the benefit that we get from it, it doesn't help towards getting WoT and only adds to the overall speed that your opponent will have in the following turn.

Yeah, it really is there for deep striking or charging after teleporting. If you're just using it to increase movement, then Pendant of the Fell Wind has you covered. The other thing worth noting for Cogs, is that if you don't need the bonus for charges that turn, it's great to camp Reikenor next to it so he can use his casting bonus to get off two spells.

[Tropical Ghost General]

Yeah, what I've generally found to be the case with cogs, is you cast it for bringing stuff on from deepstrike, either make or fail charges, but the next turn, before you can switch it back to slow mode, it's benefits have been used by your opponent. Reik having 2 casts is great, but his spells and most of the ones from the spell lore are such short range that he needs to be in the thick of it to make use of the double cast, and that means having cogs either in the middle of the board when it can be manipulated by your opponent or at the back of the board, where Reik is then not doing much with his super limited range. Now that cogs has gone up in points and as so many armies can counter our deep striking (even with cogs) so easily, I feel that the 80pts can be better invested in other units or endless spells, such as purple sun and gravetide

[Warbossironteef]

2 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Yeah, what I've generally found to be the case with cogs, is you cast it for bringing stuff on from deepstrike, either make or fail charges, but the next turn, before you can switch it back to slow mode, it's benefits have been used by your opponent. Reik having 2 casts is great, but his spells and most of the ones from the spell lore are such short range that he needs to be in the thick of it to make use of the double cast, and that means having cogs either in the middle of the board when it can be manipulated by your opponent or at the back of the board, where Reik is then not doing much with his super limited range. Now that cogs has gone up in points and as so many armies can counter our deep striking (even with cogs) so easily, I feel that the 80pts can be better invested in other units or endless spells, such as purple sun and gravetide

As all things, it depends on your list. The MSU type of lists start at 80 points. You need cogs. MSU allows you to "deepstrike" into smaller areas and find the charges you need. IMO most Nighhaunt lists benefit a lot from Cogs.

Often times people are only judging it based on how many big charges you get off but with Cogs, and the Underworld, you force your opponent into deploying a certain way and protecting their units. This in itself, the threat of the pop up and charge, is a huge bonus. Plus when having a reliable caster in Reik for when you really need Cogs makes it a little better as well. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Warbossironteef all very valid points, but I've had far too many games where giving your opponent a free +2" move and +2" charge is often more lethal than what your own army can do with it, eg. hearthguard, wytchelves, eels, demonettes, plaguemonks, etc... all of which are already gross and giving them that extra movement at 80pts cost to yourself is a very difficult pill to swallow.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add giving a GKoTG or flayers an extra 2" move and charge is also not helpful

Edited July 29, 2019 by Tropical Ghost General

[Neck-Romantic]

One nice bonus with underworld deployment (and thus cogs) is penning your opponent into his deployment zone. You can constrict their army to the point that most if their troops cant get to the fight, and if you follow it up with something like the purple sun or other AoE its even nastier.

(Ive done this with shackles and The Briar Queen's spell to lock their movement down whilst penned up too)

Edited July 30, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Tropical Ghost General]

In case anyone is interested, the NH warcry cards have been leaked and they are very meh. The community post said the NH have mediocre attacks but make up for it by having the highest toughness in the game, but the NH toughness is just 5, which is the same as a lot of other stuff. Whether or not there is going to be additional rules that increase that toughness who knows, but at first glances it's certainly a little disappointing.

(the unit stats are in the circle in the top left corner. The arrow is movement, the skull is wounds and the shield is toughness). The attacks profile is weak and the points costs isn't great either (number in the circle at the top in the middle). 

MOD EDIT:  No leaked photos please

Edited August 2, 2019 by RuneBrush

[Spears]

Toughness 5 is pretty sparse in the core set. Iron Golems with shields and the Ogor are 5 but it's not that common. 

Range 2 is significant as well. I might have been playing it wrong but forcing your opponent to move attack rather than just attack twice could be pretty key.

I'm still amazed they chose to print the points on the cards though.

 

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Spears I've had a few games of warcry and it's lots of fun, but from these stats I can't see NH being that good tbh. The community article may have been complete nonsense as well tbf, But I have a feeling that the hotness in the game will be the new warbands rather than existing factions, as they need too sell models. That being said, they all share a runemark (the spikey rose type symbol) which could be something that increases toughness or does something else 🤷‍♀️

[Spears]

Increasing toughness beyond 5 seems pretty niche, it doesn't look like there is very much S5 knocking about so it would largely be a waste. Obviously its a bit early to tell this sort of stuff, especially as most of the faction identity actually seems to be in the abilities rather than stats.

[Tropical Ghost General]

Yeah, I will wait for my cards to arrive (along with the LoN, FEC and the coreset) and see what's what once it's all out in the open.

[exliontamer]

5 toughness is all well and good, but the real problem to me would be their across the board Str 3. They are going to be hitting most things in the game 33% of the time, and sure those times will be 50/50 crit or regular dmg, but the regular dmg is mostly 1...which is pretty rough.  An people are going to say "oh well they won't be good at killing but they'll be good at holding points." The reality of Warcry is that if you are good at killing you are good at both...since you don't need to spend actions to do anything else a guy who is good at killing can just spend 2-3 rounds doubling attacking and eventually delete all the ghosts to hold the point...

I'm really not trying to be "that guy"...but GW just has no experience with an activation-based game like this and it shows. The more I learn about it (and based on two games I've played and watching about a dozen more) Warcry really seems like a big old dud. Which is sad because it had so much promise and I really, really wanted to like it. I actually think it could still be made into a good game with a little homebrew ingenuity...but I shouldn't feel like I need to fix a game with a $40 rulebook the day after it comes out. Maybe I'll come back to it in a year and see if they've ironed out any of the huge mistakes.

[Frowny]

I am considering starting nighthaunt but have a few questions.

They seem to have ok anvils, high mobility(hexwraiths, deepstrike) great board control (deepstrike, many models), but not really any hammers. 

For example, my friend has a tomb Kings army regenerating 10 wounds per squad per turn. Chewing through that seems difficult. 

Any thoughts on good hammers either to use or ally in? Or how to bring a lower model count hammer within the battletome?

[dmorley21]

7 minutes ago, Frowny said:

I am considering starting nighthaunt but have a few questions.

They seem to have ok anvils, high mobility(hexwraiths, deepstrike) great board control (deepstrike, many models), but not really any hammers. 

For example, my friend has a tomb Kings army regenerating 10 wounds per squad per turn. Chewing through that seems difficult. 

Any thoughts on good hammers either to use or ally in? Or how to bring a lower model count hammer within the battletome?

They lack elite hammers and anvils IMO.

For hammers, there's a few options. Bladegheists can get the job done, but most tend to use them in units of 10. Reapers are still great against units of 10+ and if you face an opponent that relies on one unit you can take Reapers in the Death Stalkers battalion. Some people have luck with Myrmourns and I think Harridans are underrated. 

As for the lower model count, some people swear by Spirit Hosts. I haven't tried them as I don't see it, but they are a lower model count build. The Death Riders battalion is another option for a lower model count. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

40 minutes ago, Frowny said:

I am considering starting nighthaunt but have a few questions.

Best advice, get a bit of everything and see what works best for you. I played FEC tonight (feast day delusion not gristlegore) and won. Is my list optimal, definitely not, but has it got the models I want to run in it, 100% and that's all you can really do with ghosts at the moment. We are a solid 3-2 army, not broken but super swingy and lots of fun if you can let yourself enjoy the play style. 

[Ennor]

Hey guys I've had a long break from my spooky Bois but recently found myself wanting to give them another go. This is the list I've decided to try. It's mostly stuff I have and have used before, but with some new additions like the cogs which I'm hoping will smooth out a bit of the unreliability of the army.

++ **Pitched Battle** (Death: Legions of Nagash and Nighthaunt) [2,000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Dreadblade Harrow [90pts]

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern [140pts]: Chill Blade

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed [120pts]

Reikenor the Grimhailer [170pts]

Spirit Torment [120pts]

Spirit Torment [120pts]

+ Battleline +

Chainrasp Horde [160pts]: 2x 10 Chainrasps

Chainrasp Horde [160pts]: 2x 10 Chainrasps

Spirit Hosts [360pts]: 3x 3 Spirit Hosts

+ Other +

Bladegheist Revenants [180pts]: 2x 5 Bladegheist Revenants

Bladegheist Revenants [180pts]: 2x 5 Bladegheist Revenants

Glaivewraith Stalkers [60pts]: 4 Glaivewraith Stalkers, Deathbeat Drummer

+ Allegiance +

Alliegiance: Allegiance: Nighthaunt

+ Malign Sorcery +

Endless Spell: Chronomatic Cogs [80pts]

Endless Spell: Geminids of Uhl-Gyish [60pts]

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

The plan is to deepstrike my KoS, spirit torments, revenants and spirit hosts to try and pin my opponent for big damage turn 2 with geminids. Hopefully this combined with nighthaunt charges will do enough damage that my other units can just sit uncontested on the objectives long enough for me to win. What are you guys thoughts? Is it likely to work or is there something wrong with my list/plan?

[kozokus]

On 7/31/2019 at 12:56 AM, Tropical Ghost General said:

Is my list optimal, definitely not, but has it got the models I want to run in it,

And what would be your optimal list today?

What would you bring to the Ultimate Tournament of Ultimate Destiny™?

[Tropical Ghost General]

7 minutes ago, kozokus said:

And what would be your optimal list today?

Due to the mortality glass no longer being an option I'm taking a tweaked version to a tournament in a few weeks time and seeing how it fairs there.

++  2k Golden Ghost Army  ++

Dreadblade - General (Ruler of the Spirit Hosts), Midnight Tome - Spectral Tether

Lady O - Reaping Scythe

Kurdoss

Reik - Soul Cage

Spirit Torment

Guardian of Souls - Spectral Tether

3 x Spirit Hosts

10 x Rasps

10 x Rasps

10 x Grims

10 x Harridans

5 x Blades

5 x Blades

4 x Myrmourn

Penumbral Engine

Purple Sun

Shards

14 drops - 1980pts - 7 underworlds deployment options

 

How to make it more optimal, would be drop the GoS and take another torment, swap the harridans for more blades, swap the SHs for more myrmourns and extra CP, or something along those lines. But for me I like the conversions on my harridans, I like having a bit of everything to deal with any situation. I like having 5 cast/unbinds and the few endless spells. The penumbral engine normally gives me enough extra CP to sometimes suicide launch my general and kurdoss behind enemy lines and re-roll the 9+ charge, fishing for that sweet WoT against my opponent's general. In 6 games, it's happened 3 times and left my opponent scratching their head, as they have lost their general on the 1st turn.