AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Tropical Ghost General]

To be honest I'm waiting to see what the 3 new generic command abilities are, whether you're limited to just 1 extra CP and what the GHB FAQ does, so until that happens (in around 3 weeks time) I'm just sticking with what I've got. There is so much speculation at the moment that I'm just using these next few weeks to concentrate on painting instead 😂. 

[Qrow]

44 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

To be honest I'm waiting to see what the 3 new generic command abilities are, whether you're limited to just 1 extra CP and what the GHB FAQ does, so until that happens (in around 3 weeks time) I'm just sticking with what I've got. There is so much speculation at the moment that I'm just using these next few weeks to concentrate on painting instead 😂. 

The three new command abilities are:

•1CP: reroll 1s to hit for a unit

•1CP: rerolls 1s to wound for a unit

•1CP: rerolls save rolls of 1 for a unit

So pretty good actually, especially last one with the unrendable nighthaunt save. Not sure about the 1 extra CP limit though, can anyone else confirm that rumour?

Edited June 17, 2019 by Qrow

[Ahn-ket]

14 minutes ago, Qrow said:

The three new command abilities are:

•1CP: reroll 1s to hit for a unit

•1CP: rerolls 1s to wound for a unit

•1CP: rerolls save rolls of 1 for a unit

So pretty good actually, especially last one with the unrendable nighthaunt save. Not sure about the 1 extra CP limit though, can anyone else confirm that rumour?

Their is no limit on cp's the only thats changed is that you have to pay for them 50points  (aside from battalions which give them for free)

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Ahn-ket the 50pt for 1 CP has been around for a while now, but there were some rumours of extra CP being limited to one per army (so no going 500pts under for 10 CP 😋).

I think if the limit rumour is true then it will prevent armies burning 4-5 CP to chain together command abilities to cause turn 1 tabling. 

[Qrow]

1 minute ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@Ahn-ket the 50pt for 1 CP has been around for a while now, but there were some rumours of extra CP being limited to one per army (so no going 500pts under for 10 CP 😋).

I think if the limit rumour is true then it will prevent armies burning 4-5 CP to chain together command abilities to cause turn 1 tabling. 

Or FeC loading up on CP to first turn summon half a dozen 170 point units for 50 CP each...

[Ahn-ket]

22 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@Ahn-ket the 50pt for 1 CP has been around for a while now, but there were some rumours of extra CP being limited to one per army (so no going 500pts under for 10 CP 😋).

I think if the limit rumour is true then it will prevent armies burning 4-5 CP to chain together command abilities to cause turn 1 tabling. 

Yeah maybe its limited so you can only buy one during contruction (don't remember the wording yet) but you still get one cp per warscroll battalion  so it could be more then one extra

[PFI]

Just now, Ahn-ket said:

Yeah maybe its limited so you can only buy one during contruction (don't remember the wording yet) but you still get one cp per warscroll battalion  so it could be more then one extra

but are there many armies out there competitively taking more than one battalion?

[Ahn-ket]

2 minutes ago, PFI said:

but are there many armies out there competitively taking more than one battalion?

Right but thats are 3cp first turn

[Tropical Ghost General]

There are still going to be certain armies that can get a shed ton of CP for nothing (gobbos, etc...) but I'm hoping the rumours are true, as currently you can take battalions and as much extra CP as you want and the extra CP doesn't count towards your total points with regards to triumphs, so you can go 200pts under, get 4 extra CP and then get a guaranteed triumph roll.

(Just to confirm that when I mention extra CP being capped I'm only referring to the additional ones that you can purchase for 50pts)

[Ahn-ket]

The new cp rule has something like you buy a cp for 50p which is added to your army points in it 

So if you and your opponent are 1950/2000 and you buy a cp and he doesn't he gets the triumph and you get a 2000p Army with an additional cp

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Ahn-ket yeah buying additional CP adds to the total value of your army, but determining whether you get a triumph roll or not is based on units and battalions taken, for some reason the additional CP doesn't count towards the value when determining if you are eligible for getting triumph rolls. It is the most silly oversight but it is RAW and is often how it is played.

[BaylorCorvette]

Hey all, new to AoS but I played 40k (Space Marines, Tau, Tyranids) from 2000-2010. I'm strongly considering going Nighthaunt as my army of choice. To no surprise I bought the Soul Wars set first, I noticed that the NH units are seem extremely fragile, anyone have tips on best way to handle / store the units? For 40k I just used a tackle box, but I feel like if I did that with NH units, they may break..

I've got the NH Battletome on order, so I only have a copy of the general rules that came with the Soul Wars set at the moment. However my understanding is that there are four main factions (Order, Death, Chaos & Destruction) and within each major faction you have sub factions / armies which you can mix and match but if you do, then you do not get the benefit of say a Nighthaunt exclusive army, is that correct? I definitely want to play Death (despite loving Space Marines in 40k, Stormcast eternals just look/feel like the their medieval goody two-shoes predecessors). So I've narrowed down to NH or LoN. I've been trying to do some research on LoN and at first it looked like anything that wasn't Flesh-eater Courts or NH was LoN but now I'm seeing stuff about Legion of Sacrament, Legion of Blood and Legion of Night. I guess I'm a little confused about those. On the games workshop website it looks like there are only three "sub factions" of Death. Flesh-eater Courts, LoN and Nighthaunt, but I don't know if that is an accurate assumption or not?

[Evil Bob]

2 hours ago, BaylorCorvette said:

So I've narrowed down to NH or LoN. I've been trying to do some research on LoN and at first it looked like anything that wasn't Flesh-eater Courts or NH was LoN but now I'm seeing stuff about Legion of Sacrament, Legion of Blood and Legion of Night. I guess I'm a little confused about those. On the games workshop website it looks like there are only three "sub factions" of Death. Flesh-eater Courts, LoN and Nighthaunt, but I don't know if that is an accurate assumption or not?

You need Battletomb:Legions of Nagash.  It will cover everything else you’re considering.  Everything underlined is described in there.

There is some cross over of NH into the Battletomb:LoN but the Soul Wars Box already addresses it.  In the FAQ The Knight of Shroud (on foot) and The Guardian of Souls variant were retroactively added to the list.

[Alphonz]

Just in reference to the above (how fragile) question, I recently got an Olynder from a Fb BuySell group, and she is so delicate that I'm wondering whether I got shafted with a resin fake.

Her staff arm had broken off next to her body, and the staff itself (along with her ghost companions & dress) all flex with a small amount of pressure. I've noted that the arms on Myrmourns also flex a little too, so just curious. 

[HiveFleetCerberus]

Working on a Deathriders list using the updated points costs (20 pt. cheaper hex wraiths really adds up fast!). This list under the new points comes to 1940, so I would also buy an extra command point. Any glaring mistakes? Am I missing anything drastically important? Thanks for the feedback!

 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Spirit Torment (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind 
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar

Battleline
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Malevolent Maelstrom (20)

Total: 2070 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

[Evil Bob]

35 minutes ago, Alphonz said:

Just in reference to the above (how fragile) question, I recently got an Olynder from a Fb BuySell group, and she is so delicate that I'm wondering whether I got shafted with a resin fake.

Her staff arm had broken off next to her body, and the staff itself (along with her ghost companions & dress) all flex with a small amount of pressure. I've noted that the arms on Myrmourns also flex a little too, so just curious. 

Mine broke off in transport to and from the game day.  Her staff arm is going to be well know for that weakness.  Mine currently is being transported in one of the foam fitted cases set to keep her arm from making contact with any surfaces.

[Spears]

Magnetised box is absolutely the best way to move Nighthaunt  armies around.

 

The new command abilities are definitely a boon for NH as so few of our heroes actually have a way to spend command points other than the generic ones I often found I had a few stockpiling up in longer games. The save re roll in particular could really help some of our deepstriking units who weren't around in the hero phase to receive a mystic shield.

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Qrow here is the proof of the CP limit. It not only adds to your points total and against you getting triumphs but also is capped at only 1 extra per army. 

+++ MOD HAT +++ Sorry, no leaked/potato pictures on TGA!

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by RuneBrush

[dmorley21]

Anyone catch the Nighthaunt faction reaction podcast today from The Honest Wargamer? Playing the army as an MSU type force was brought up a bit. I know some of you have done that as well. Curious to hear other thoughts. 

[punkycloud]

9 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

Anyone catch the Nighthaunt faction reaction podcast today from The Honest Wargamer? Playing the army as an MSU type force was brought up a bit. I know some of you have done that as well. Curious to hear other thoughts. 

I caught this as well and found it really interesting. I typically run blocks of 10 reapers and bladegheists some banshees a block of chainrasps and heroes, never occurred to me to run blades in 5 and chainrasps in 10. Might give it a try. Don't think I can bring myself to drop banshees to 4 tho, want that +2or3 to guarantee the +1 attack

[Sebash]

Hey all. Like alot of people come back to the hobby and started with the soul wars set and picked up some additional stuff. However, I currently am not too sure on what else to pick to further enhance the army. Loving the look of Kurdos but I feel I've already have an abundance of heroes and need some additional rank and file troops. 

I've currently have

30 chainrasps

1 knight of shrouds

2 guardian of souls 1 with mortality glass

10 bladegheists

2 dreadblade harrows

1 briar queen unit

4 reapers

5 glavewraith stalkers.

I've been playing some smaller games and I do feel like I'm struggling as I like some heavy hitting power. Not too sure on what to get. My regular opponents are idoneth deepkin (eel spam), fyreslayers , stormcast, and Fec. Would love some suggestions and typical first turn tips. As currently I feel I'm trying to move forward too soon and allow myself to get charged which is seems very costly when 4 units of eels manage to pull it off. Does seem nighthaunt  has a very low margin for error.

Also pic of the army in progress

[Pazour]

 

On 6/17/2019 at 7:26 PM, HiveFleetCerberus said:

Working on a Deathriders list using the updated points costs (20 pt. cheaper hex wraiths really adds up fast!). This list under the new points comes to 1940, so I would also buy an extra command point. Any glaring mistakes? Am I missing anything drastically important? Thanks for the feedback!

 

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Spirit Torment (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind 
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Beacon of Nagashizzar

Battleline
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)

Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Malevolent Maelstrom (20)

Total: 2070 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

Looks like we had similar ideas lol, I really loved the Deathriders battalion already, (everything is fast and teleportation shenanigans are fun) and now that they have dropped the points of every single unit! in the battalion it seems like a no brainer.

Your Spirit Torment would have trouble keeping up with the Hexs, which are the most efficient to bring back with RotSH, and his inbuilt return ability is unreliable on them, so if you use him, I would not make him the general, that should go to the DBH IMO. but... his aura is largely a waste now, since you can re-roll 1's to hit for a command point, and your list does't have a clear use for them otherwise, the pendant seems like it should be strong, but with deep strike I personally don't usually get much use from it. (although maybe to make using the hexs flyover ability easier...)

GOS can bring back either the Blades or rasps, but I say the +1 to cast is better than the +D3 returned, a failed or dispelled casts means 0 back, so reliability is what I prioritize, shademist is a decent spell for sure, but I prefer my rage inducing tactics below lol

DBH as your general can Teleport and then Spectral Summons to bring a unit with him. Start the Black Coach in the middle of nowhere so it can level up turn 1, then drag it 9" from the enemy as a surprise charge

Malevolent Maelstrom I've never personally fielded so I can't speak to it, it sounds fun though, how has it been for you before?

I'm working on a 2000 point list as well, for a tournament the week after GHB19 drops. 

Here's what I was looking at, feel free to tear it apart.

I'm a 3 drop list with Reiknor and 2x battalions, so I can usually pick who goes first in round 1. 

I'll put the minimum on the table somewhere they can't be reached for a turn 1 alpha, and take the 2nd turn so my opponent has nothing to do turn 1, (on table 2x DBH, since they teleport anyways, Black Coach so it can level up, Reiknor and 20x Rasps) and deep strike in the rest on my turn.

They're unlikely to want to hand me a double turn in subsequent rounds, so I can keep using the Terminexus to heal myself each round (probably on the Black Coach as its only healing is its self D3 per turn and people like to focus it since its my "big" unit. If they do try to flip Terminexus on me, with correct positioning, fast units like Hexs, Black Coach, Reiknor, and DBHs hopefully all outrun it.

DBH General and Black Coach can keep my Hexs topped up D3 models each per turn.

GOS keeps the Rasps un-healthy with 2D6 models returned per turn with +1 cast artefact to increase reliability, soul cage for if a big beastie comes knocking, make him go last and flee the rasps 3" inches back so he can't pile in and attack

Reiknor stays near a unit of troops for lookout sir, casts Cogs for re-rolling saves, and extra chances to snuff corpse candles (split a unit coherency hey-o!), lifestealer to top up if he snuffs his own candle

DBH1 as general to drag units around with him, artefact to make him a caster, but torn on what spell to choose

Spectral tether - heal himself or other heroes, but the terminexus can do this already, and he'd likely have to teleport which takes a turn and might be too late anyway

Soul Cage - choosing the attack order is always powerful (to flee, or to bracket something before it can attack)

DBH2 to stay near Hexs and BC to provide deathless save, Wraithbow Shyish artefact for minor hero sniping magic ranged attack that bypasses look out sir

One of my 3 casters can hop on the Balewind for extra casts, if its Reiknor 3x corpse candles is sweet! but likely the GOS since he will probably be camping an objective somewhere and wont need to move much.

I know I lack a big hammer to whack things with, so I aim to play the objectives well and outlast my opponents.

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
- Artefact: Wraithbow 
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight Lantern
Reikenor the Grimhailer (170)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer

Battleline
10 x Hexwraiths (280)
5 x Hexwraiths (140)
30 x Chainrasp Horde (240)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)

Behemoths
Black Coach (260)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)
Chainguard (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Mortalis Terminexus (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114

 

[DarkTrooperZero]

Now we know the changes to NH point costs do we think there will be much list composition changes because of it?

- Still run Grimghast or ditch them and upgrade to Bladegheists?

- More likely to bring out our Mortarch or can better value still be found with cheaper heroes?

- Pursue Deathriders now that Harrows, Hexwraiths and black coaches are all cheaper?

etc

[Tropical Ghost General]

@DarkTrooperZero I'm not 100% sure much will change tbh.

Grims are still a must due to natural rerolls and 2" range and cheaper than blades. 

Blades are still a better choice over harridans even with the points drops. 

Our 2 big heroes, Lady O & Mr. K are more attractive options now but I still feel that they are a little on the high side of cost, especially when compared to the newer books. If the new books see decent points changes with the GHB FAQ on 7th July then they will maybe be a better choice still. 

Deathriders is looking much better but all 3 options, dreadblade, BC and hexs still lack any real punch as units, great as super fast harassment but it's a big points investment just for harassment imo. It's likely to be the new go to battalion but I don't think it will help us overcome the power creep that has happened with later books. 

Currently MSU format is being chatted about a lot, and it's something I've been running since September last year and with the points drops my 2k list has remained unchanged (dropped 50pts, went up 50pts), other than I'm now taking the purple sun over the pendulum because it's way more fun to run. I think others who were also running MSU high drop lists (12-15 drops) have found similar non-changes to the points costs with their lists. 

The changes to the battle plans are going to help for sure with some of the imbalance as will the change to the extra CP limit preventimg armies using 4-5CP turn one to alpha smash you into oblivion. 

Ultimately we'll all need to wait and see what happens after the dust has settled after the GHB19 FAQ before making changes to lists and play styles. And it's normally 2 weeks after release (7th July) but not always the case, sometimes they extend the wait if they have to make more changes than they originally planned to. 

[Kelsicle]

Hey all! Looking to take my Nighthaunt to a few tournaments over the next 6 months, will be my first steps into competitive AoS.

I have a list in mind to start things off, focusing on MSU Grimghasts and Bladegheists. Currently I’m looking at 60 Grimghasts, 20 Bladegheists and 10 Harridans (because I have them and they fill the gap perfectly). These will be supported by a Dreadblade Harrow (General), Reikenor, Spirit Torment (probably kept in the underworlds with the bladegheist) and Guardian of a Souls supporting the Grimghasts.

My question is what unit sizes do people think are the most optimised? Initially I was going to go for units of 10 Reapers to maximise charge opportunity, however I’m not sure if these will be too difficult to keep on the table. So now I’m looking to 3 units of 20 Reapers and two units of 10 Bladegheists. 

Any thoughts or opinions on this?

 

Nighthaunt.pdf