AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Neck-Romantic]

@Scurvydog

Nerfing the enemies bravery still allows Olynder/Tomb Banshees/Mortis Engine/Terrorgheist/Dreadscythe Harridans to land their abilities easier and for far more damage.

Plus with our Bravery nerfs being AoE; the enemy can only Inspire 1 unit per turn too

[Ahn-ket]

2 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

@Scurvydog

Nerfing the enemies bravery still allows Olynder/Tomb Banshees/Mortis Engine/Terrorgheist/Dreadscythe Harridans to land their abilities easier and for far more damage.

Plus with our Bravery nerfs being AoE; the enemy can only Inspire 1 unit per turn too

Terrorgheist aren't allowed cause of keyword restriction

IP can ne used once per CP if i'm remembering right

[Qrow]

Having had a night to sleep on it, I'm actually pretty happy with LoG. All of its abilities are more tactical and less random chance oriented than NH, I love the wave of terror rule but it does have only a 16.67% chance of going off.

Currently planning a list similar too:

Heroes:

Lady olynder

Nercromancer

Spirit torment

Tomb banshee

     General: -2 bravery in 12"

    Artifact: -1 to hit from ranged

 

Battleline:

40x chainrasps

10x chainrasps

10x chainrasps

 

Other:

20x dreadscythe harridans

20x bladeghiest revenants

12x myrmourn banshees

 

Endless spells:

Horrorghasts

 

Point: 1930

 

Plan is to basically spilt into small groups and hit board control: olynder uses the big chainrasps as a buffer and spews MWs, necromancer advances with the myrmourns using a group of the chainrasps to protect from charges while throwing heals where needed and vanhelsing units, banshee follows behind the harridans to provide an AoE of -3 bravery and throw mortal wounds (artifact and look out sir hopefully keeping him safe from range), and finally the spirit torment gives rerolls and healing to the bladegheists.

I'm normally not fond of such big groups of elite models, but with gravesites offering healing and the ability to bring back whole units, I might as well try to take advantage of the horde bonuses.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Qrow
swapped GoS for necromancer

[PFI]

Lady Olynder is your general... like how if you take arkhan in LoS or the other mortarchs in theirs. Olynder actually hurts the army more than helps it cause she doesn't assist with the bravery bombing and takes away the trait from you.

And doesn't have good synergy with them since the multiwound nighthaunt models aren't good in LoG.

I imagine the way to play LoG is to do either:

LD bombs with chainrasp and skellie blobs as a secondary threat

Regening murder units like myrmourns, grimghasts and bladegheists for the attrition style cause nighthaunts do damage, they just can't take it so wildly throw them at them. 

Not having a full spell lore hurts for spamming casters. And the necro is probably better than the GoS, His offensive spell is better than +1 to wound and heals two units 1d3 for free instead of the cast to heal 1d6 so thats pretty fair

All in all I think it won't be meta defining. Just more options to LoN and nighthaunt  but doesn't mix those options at the more neat levels like more ghostly battelines for LoG, no battalions, Lady Olynder having to be general if you take her limiting the bravery gimmick. 

 

 

 

[Qrow]

13 minutes ago, PFI said:

Lady Olynder is your general... like how if you take arkhan in LoS or the other mortarchs in theirs. Olynder actually hurts the army more than helps it cause she doesn't assist with the bravery bombing and takes away the trait from you.

And doesn't have good synergy with them since the multiwound nighthaunt models aren't good in LoG.

I imagine the way to play LoG is to do either:

LD bombs with chainrasp and skellie blobs as a secondary threat

Regening murder units like myrmourns, grimghasts and bladegheists for the attrition style cause nighthaunts do damage, they just can't take it so wildly throw them at them. 

Not having a full spell lore hurts for spamming casters. And the necro is probably better than the GoS, His offensive spell is better than +1 to wound and heals two units 1d3 for free instead of the cast to heal 1d6 so thats pretty fair

All in all I think it won't be meta defining. Just more options to LoN and nighthaunt  but doesn't mix those options at the more neat levels like more ghostly battelines for LoG, no battalions, Lady Olynder having to be general if you take her limiting the bravery gimmick. 

 

 

 

Actually swapped out the GoS for a necro seconds before your post, he is too good to pass up.

I don't actually have the LoN battletome so I had no idea about the mortarch having to be the general if taken... yeah, olynder actually harms the bravery debuffs... that seems so stupid honestly.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Qrow

[Neck-Romantic]

Yes the fact Oly nerfs the entire point of LoG is mind boggling honestly. 

The only ray of hope for her at this point is if the bravery debuff on general ends up being a rule that is conferred to the army's general regardless of the model; as all the Legions did this.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Anzu]

Hi all!

I have a few questions about LoG that I hope you might be able to help with! I realise we don’t know everything yet but...

- Terrorgheists have the death keyword, all other LoN legions can take them. Are we sure we won’t be able to? 

- Does locus of shyish work with our spell lore? If so -d3 bravery or -1 from saves going of twice would be epic!

-Is there such a thing as negative bravery? Or is 0 as low as we can go? 

- other legions can take spells from deathmages, so can we take overwhelming dread?

Eitherway im quite hyped about the bravery bomb game and believe it is what NH should have been in the first place!

 

[Neck-Romantic]

@Anzu

Good questions!

I..have no answers. Anybody else?

[Scurvydog]

Lores of the dead states: "WIZARDS that know an additional spell (or spells) from one of the Lores of the Dead, as described in their army’s allegiance abilities, generate their spells from the following tables..."

So it needs to be stated in the allegiance abilities, as each legion in the LoN book has it stated under "Magic". I don't see that in the LoG entry, so I suspect it is separate, and as such no locus either.

Unless it appears in a FAQ LoG will be by far the weakest legion in terms of magic, selection of traits and artifacts etc. Only benefit really is that you can use the second wave release of nighthaunt models.

Competetively this is probably just flat out worse than any other legion, but for a pure nighthaunt player it gives another option, although not one that will threaten LoN in the meta.

[Qrow]

Yeah, seems to be a lot that needs answers in the FAQ. I hope we do get the basics though, like access to generic death monsters and locus of shyish. On the other side, I haven't seen much hype about the combined order force at all

[Anzu]

That’s not what I wanted to hear 😭

[Neck-Romantic]

Dont get too down guys; we still have GHB2019 to go too

[SleeperAgent]

9 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Dont get too down guys; we still have GHB2019 to go too

This is what I'm hoping for big time. I want everything sorted. Because there's a lot of good stuff in LoG but focing Olynder as general if you take her cuts off the best thing of -2 bravery command trait. Whereas NH has one usable command trait (Rules of the Spirit Hosts) and could benefit heavily from the -2 bravery one being sideloaded in. 

I would like to see Wave of Terror reworked in some way. I have no idea how, but it needs to be something we choose rather than something that happens randomly. Because I've had games where it spiked and I got 7 waves, but Ive also had games with zero. With all the new books getting extra combats for one command point I think ours needs to be more like that. 

Not to mention the points need a serious rework. If Warpseer and his like don't go up, Olynder and our heros need to go down.

[Qrow]

I don't see them raising the points, all the new battle tomes would need to have point increases and I don't think GW wants the outrage from people who just bought a new codex.

LoG needs some serious FAQ already, I really hope it at least gets access to the locus of shyish for its spells. Similar to the nighthaunt release, it just seems strange, so much counterintuitive design

[Neck-Romantic]

There is a possibility than GHB will make vanilla NH more competative anyway, and different stats/points could feed into LoG as well.

I imagine they designed LoG with the GHB alterations in mind.

Honestly; I think the biggest impact we will see is Necromancers giving our units 2 attack sequences. Buffed Myrmourns primarily and bladegheists are what immediatly come to mind.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Qrow]

Have there been any rumours, leaks or previews about changes to the core rulebook?

[Neck-Romantic]

Not that Ive seen... nothing for the GHB actually

[ColsBols]

Has anyone actually seen the LOG rules yet or is it all YouTube stuff 

[Ahn-ket]

Only YouTube sofar

[Neck-Romantic]

Another thing we havnt considered is perhaps Olynder will have a different Warscroll on LoG; sort of like Warmachine issues. Perhaps her command ability will debuff bravery or otherwise synergize with bravery abilities.

All it would take would be a "double the amount of all negative bravery effects on all enemy units within 12" or "double the amount of mortal wounds caused by tomb banshees/olynders handmaidens" and poof we're all happy

Edited May 19, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Incineroar87]

I think someone showcased the entire book on YouTube in a review, there doesn’t seem to be any additional different  warscrolls, point adjustments or battalions for LOG.  

[Neck-Romantic]

.....oh

[Incineroar87]

A FAQ regarding LOG and the general handbook updates for Nighthaunt will be what we need to look forward to next to see what gets cheaper or more expensive.

[Qrow]

I think what we have seen from LoG so far proves we need to temper our expectations. While I am still expecting to see point drops in the GHB, I'm not going to expect half as much as I was previously.

The AoS team appear to be making simply... confusing choices recently. With massively undercosted units and counter-intuitive design being thrown around wildly, it feels like they are out of touch with the game somewhat.

 

Or maybe I'm salty that bravery de-buffs mean nearly nothing when everything ignores the battleshock phase. Just look at the last few codexs; 9", 12", 15" 26" ignore battleshock bubbles from multiple sources, even with shreiker hosts bonuses there is nothing you can do.

[Ahn-ket]

Their are NH Units that make more mortal wounds by reduced bravery so its not only battleshock phase that counts for that