AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Planar]

I love the way NH play at the moment (spectral summons, underworld, and high risk/high reward wave of terror). even though they are not breaking any meta...

NH is one of the most hard to handle and tactical armies out there and with them no game is guaranteed but also no game is surely lost. You have to think really hard and stay focused during the whole game. And you have to play with very indirect strategies to win.

So personally I am not looking forward into shifting to a LoN based NH version unless the character of the army is maintained. 

Let's wait and hope...

[Scurvydog]

I never cared for wave of terror, it is so random and can be so game changing when it happens.

I just hope this is not just a campaign book list and that it will actually be usable in regular matched play, in which case I will very much look forward to using all my nighthaunt models in a different way. I also  hope the rest of the line gets included with the soul wars box models to be used in the other legions, especially want to use all my models in a list with Arkhan or Nagash.

The legion of grief also makes sense, as it seems to be more settled in now and the nighthaunt and olynder prepares for a more grindy siege rather than the guerilla warfare so far, which is then reflected in the rules how they do this, by changing from shock tactics to breaking the morale of their enemies.

[Greasygeek]

I agree that LoG might be the way for NH to go competitive but that doesn’t mean that NH is about to be flushed out. None of us expected Nighthaunt to get anything except maybe some point adjustments in the next GHB. I can’t see any way better to give us (maybe) both. If I wanna go hard with my ghosts its LoG and if I wanna test my luck/skills its NH. 

Bonus 1. We will be getting some options to make bravery debuff lists. Go spooky Banshees!

Bonus 2. It will (hopefully) make sense to field Olynder as a general. Wohoo no more random hero nr. 4 general.

I am very excited about this, though I understand and respect those who think otherwise. To me its all the stuff that we have been hoping for and maybe even more. Also I really hope that they let us use Nagash. Don’t really think so but man would I love to paint my favourite enemy and place him amongst my ranks.

Also, in the rumour thread some people claim that GW, during WF announced that a new Death battletome (amongst others) will be released this year. Do you lot think that this LoG list will ‘count’ as that or are we litterally to expect a fresh new deathrattle/soulblight/tomb kings(ish) tome already?

[Tropical Ghost General]

33 minutes ago, Greasygeek said:

Also, in the rumour thread some people claim that GW, during WF announced that a new Death battletome (amongst others) will be released this year. Do you lot think that this LoG list will ‘count’ as that or are we litterally to expect a fresh new deathrattle/soulblight/tomb kings(ish) tome already?

No rumour, was announced at the preview Q&A, all grand alliances are getting another book. For Death it's either going to be a whole new faction (unlikely), Soulblight, Deadwalkers or an updated LoN, with the newer LoG included and warscrolls and abilities updated for 2.0, now that the dust has settled a bit since it's launch.

[Neck-Romantic]

Think they would update one of the other Death fsctions with a book but no new models?

[SleeperAgent]

6 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Think they would update one of the other Death fsctions with a book but no new models?

They updated FEC with 1 model. It's entirely possible.

Edited May 14, 2019 by SleeperAgent

[Neck-Romantic]

My guess would be soulblight then.

They seem the most 'together'of the subfactions without new models.

Plus they are NH allies so complimentary sales

Edited May 14, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Hideaki]

2 hours ago, Planar said:

NH is one of the most hard to handle and tactical armies out there and with them no game is guaranteed but also no game is surely lost.

To be honest, I can't agree completly. We have a lot of tactics at our disposal but only through the Dreadblade Harrow and teleporting units on the field. The issue I see is most of our abilities (like attacking if we charge 10" or more are random and usually we can only reduce enemy bravery by 1 and can only combine it with a few abilities). It's still a hard and tactical army for sure but I don't see it as the nighthaunt per se but more about how the game is played. With this I mean the issue is more about the top armies is they have 1 or 2 playstyles which puts them above the rest which means they don't really need to learn it ecc. (like Idoneth or FeC).

I think Nighthaunt are a wasted potential because we are fairly limited (in my opinion) on what we can actually do. Most of the time we need to rely on lucky rolls more than anything

[Neck-Romantic]

Im hoping that LoG will finally realize our playstyle as an attrition-based force that ignores rend while grinding the oponent down with MW's and Bravery losses. 

More of your army dying to fear and ghost-touches than hack-and-slash while ignoring your nastiest weapons

[Planar]

42 minutes ago, Hideaki said:

To be honest, I can't agree completly. We have a lot of tactics at our disposal but only through the Dreadblade Harrow and teleporting units on the field. T

I was mostly referring to the fact that we are a board control army with very good secondary abilities like flying and fast movement/ fast deployment rather than something that is directly and extremely powerful.  Our most powerful ability "wave of terror" is so unreliable that you can never take it into account in any planning. It either comes as a nice bonus making your life easier or as a deus ex machina taking you out of a dreadful situation creating some epicness.

We cant hope to beat anyone in direct combat but we can win through tactical board control and restricting opponents plans.

At least this is how I play NH and what I like about them. So I would hoping on something enhancing this aspect rather than turning us into another version of LoN.

[Hideaki]

1 hour ago, Planar said:

I was mostly referring to the fact that we are a board control army with very good secondary abilities like flying and fast movement/ fast deployment rather than something that is directly and extremely powerful.  Our most powerful ability "wave of terror" is so unreliable that you can never take it into account in any planning. It either comes as a nice bonus making your life easier or as a deus ex machina taking you out of a dreadful situation creating some epicness.

We cant hope to beat anyone in direct combat but we can win through tactical board control and restricting opponents plans.

At least this is how I play NH and what I like about them. So I would hoping on something enhancing this aspect rather than turning us into another version of LoN.

Oh yeah, I also play Nighthaunt for this reason but it still saddens me that we don't have a real "Big bad scary unit" which many armies bring to the table. What I mean by that is we are a bit restricted in being forced to outmanouvre the enemy since many units can go toe toe with our best units.

[Neck-Romantic]

If we can push -3 or more on Bravery then things like the Shreiker Host, Dreadscythes in general, and TombBanshees could really come into their own; as well as the possibility of Terrorgheists (the name fits too!)

With the new end-step ruling on Soulcage we can work some serious hurt with the above units as well.

[Nevar]

I am praying for our Nighthaunt heroes gaining the 1d3 model revive ability that the rest of the LoN heroes get in the Legion of Grief so I can play LoN and grave sites as effectively with spooks as I would with skelebobs.

[Neck-Romantic]

Yar.

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Neck-Romantic I'd be very surprised if the NH spell lore was kept for LoG, so I doubt that soul cage would be an option. I imagine a new spell lore for NH wizards, similar to how the current LoN has one table for deathmages and one table for vampires. As currently the GoS which can be taken in the current LoN has no spells it can cast. 

[Nevar]

They can also really easily just reprint the NH spell lore into the LoG.

Honestly I would prefer that.   I -really- love everything about NH as they are except for their allegiance abilities.  Wave of Terror is cool, but not as good or as skill based as grave sites and summoning of dead units like the other Legions have.  NH spell list is more than awesome enough, similarly all of our Artifacts are more than good enough for me.

I am hoping for just a legion like the others that is led by Olynder and adds the grave sites and Deathly Invocation abilities to all NH characters played inside LoG.

As it is, NH inside LoN is not quite what I would want, because I am not interested in Necromancers or Vampires, but I really enjoy the attrition game of the Legions, and would love to use pure NH with the LoN alleigence abilities.

[Qrow]

I hate to be the one to say it, but maybe we should slightly curb our expectations? While I am excited, I'm  going to wait till I actually see the rules before I jump onboard, god knows I should have done so when they NH endless spells came on preorder...

That said, any content should be good, I seriously doubt they will be nerfing nighthaunt, exept possibly reapers if we do actually get entire unit recurrence

[Scurvydog]

I also think the NH lore is just reused. The big kicker will also be how this is done, as the soul wars models are usable in legions, which was an incredibly half baked solution. If all nighthaunt become integrated into the legions book, then cool stuff opens up.

The legion of grief itself is most likely the same as the other legions with a slight spin next to grave markers etc. The bravery debuffing, while thematic, has me worried. Bravery and battleshock has been ruined a lot in my opinion, with GW handing out battleshock ignoring abilities left and right, such as terrain for goblins and beasts, where they are completely immune, not to mention high CP generation to just use inspiring presence as needed. 

With many demons as well with 10 bravery, they really need some kind of magic trick in the rules to make playing the bravery and battleshock game worth anything. At the very least the army then needs the banshee battalion effect of ignoring inpisiring presence or it quickly becomes pointless if your strategy can be countered every time på 1 CP.

[SleeperAgent]

37 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

I also think the NH lore is just reused. The big kicker will also be how this is done, as the soul wars models are usable in legions, which was an incredibly half baked solution. If all nighthaunt become integrated into the legions book, then cool stuff opens up.

The legion of grief itself is most likely the same as the other legions with a slight spin next to grave markers etc. The bravery debuffing, while thematic, has me worried. Bravery and battleshock has been ruined a lot in my opinion, with GW handing out battleshock ignoring abilities left and right, such as terrain for goblins and beasts, where they are completely immune, not to mention high CP generation to just use inspiring presence as needed. 

With many demons as well with 10 bravery, they really need some kind of magic trick in the rules to make playing the bravery and battleshock game worth anything. At the very least the army then needs the banshee battalion effect of ignoring inpisiring presence or it quickly becomes pointless if your strategy can be countered every time på 1 CP.

I dont think they really need to worry about this. HAving so many armies get battleshock passes easily means they can go BIG on bravery debuffs which help NH in many other ways. Imagine taking something down to 1-2 bravery then rolling with a couple Tomb Banshees. That thing is DEAD.

[Neck-Romantic]

@SleeperAgent

Or a Terrorgheist! (I keep referencing them; if they open up our allies than those things will be nuts)

I had hoped from the begining for a more 'outside the box' army that killed with bravery and MW output, hoping for the Myrmourn dreadvault band to have some interesting bravery gimmick too

Edited May 15, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[SleeperAgent]

1 minute ago, Neck-Romantic said:

@SleeperAgent

Or a Terrorgheist! (I keep referencing them; if they open up our allies than those things will be nuts)

I had hoped from the begining for a more 'outside the box' army that killed with bravery and MW output, hoping for the Myrmourn dreadvault band to have some interesting bravery gimmick too

As someone who has fielded a Royal Terrorgheist recently, yeah it would be insane with bravery debuff. On top of how insane it already is. I just want the spooky ghosts to be able to do somewhat similarly strong stuff without needing to field "physical" units. I want my sheets to do it all by themselves

[Qrow]

Well hello horrorghast, hate the model but love the ability. That is 100% making it into my shreiker hosts lists, total of -3 bravery (nighthaunt trait + horrorghast)? Hell yes!

Edited May 15, 2019 by Qrow

[Greasygeek]

25 minutes ago, Qrow said:

Well hello horrorghast, hate the model but love the ability. That is 100% making it into my shreiker hosts lists, total of -3 bravery (nighthaunt trait + horrorghast)? Hell yes!

Throw in a gravetide and a bunch of Harbingers and thats -5 Bravery! Now the Banshees goes in. Booh!

but what about that bridge? From how I read it each bridge part debuff -1 bravery for units within 6”. 

So you could build a nasty trap placing the bridge so close that nothing is gained using the bridge.

[lare2]

New Horrorghast ES would work great with this bravery talk you're all having. 

Edit: Oops! See I'm a little late to the party!

Edited May 15, 2019 by lare2

[Greasygeek]

That boatman however.. I don’t quite see his use... one dead scenery statue coming up!