AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Hideaki]

I was thinking of adding Arkhan the black in my Nighthaunt list, did you folks have any experience fielding him as an ally? Also a friend told me to field my Nighthaunt as LoN so I would have access to tombs and being able to heal/summon units from there, is this true? Can I field a pure Nighthaunt army using the alliance abilities of LoN?

[Kokoshi]

7 hours ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

Hey folks, I'm coming here for advice. I finally got my wife interested in AoS and she REALLY loves Death models. A fellow local gamer sold me his Nighthaunt half of Soul Wars and I was wondering where to go from here to provide her a good 1K army.

You need to consider several things in order to get an answer !
Does your wife has a competitive or efficient point of view of the game ? Thus, does she need a minimal degree of optimizing her list ?
This first question comes with another : how competitive is the groupe in which she's gonna play her first game ? Freindly ? Mild competitive ? Tournament-focused ?
Is this the first time she paints miniatures and plays wargames ? 

From all these questions I would get a wide Spectrum of list building and advices, from "collect wathever you like as long as you get one leader and two battlelines, paint it, field it, like it" to "use [generic competitive legion or nighthaunt 1k list probably including reapers]".
Anyway, if it is her first time with wargames, and her opponents can field friendly lists, I would really advise her to play what she likes. I started back hobby like this and enjoyed it.

[Ahn-ket]

2 hours ago, Hideaki said:

I was thinking of adding Arkhan the black in my Nighthaunt list, did you folks have any experience fielding him as an ally? Also a friend told me to field my Nighthaunt as LoN so I would have access to tombs and being able to heal/summon units from there, is this true? Can I field a pure Nighthaunt army using the alliance abilities of LoN?

You can use 

Glaivewraith

Grimghast

Chainrasp

Both Guardian of Souls variants

Both knight of shrouds variants

Lord excecutioner

Spirit torment

Spirit hosts

Hexwraith

Tomb banshee

Cairnwraith

Legally as LoN anything else must be Allied 

[MrRoff]

2 hours ago, Hideaki said:

I was thinking of adding Arkhan the black in my Nighthaunt list, did you folks have any experience fielding him as an ally? Also a friend told me to field my Nighthaunt as LoN so I would have access to tombs and being able to heal/summon units from there, is this true? Can I field a pure Nighthaunt army using the alliance abilities of LoN?

Most of the nighthaunts can be taken in a LoN list but not all. 

Use the Age of Sigmar app/battlescribe to easier see your army setup.

[Wilhelm Stürmer]

4 hours ago, Kokoshi said:

You need to consider several things in order to get an answer !
Does your wife has a competitive or efficient point of view of the game ? Thus, does she need a minimal degree of optimizing her list ?
This first question comes with another : how competitive is the groupe in which she's gonna play her first game ? Freindly ? Mild competitive ? Tournament-focused ?
Is this the first time she paints miniatures and plays wargames ? 

From all these questions I would get a wide Spectrum of list building and advices, from "collect wathever you like as long as you get one leader and two battlelines, paint it, field it, like it" to "use [generic competitive legion or nighthaunt 1k list probably including reapers]".
Anyway, if it is her first time with wargames, and her opponents can field friendly lists, I would really advise her to play what she likes. I started back hobby like this and enjoyed it.

She's by nature competitive, but I highly doubt she'll go past just local events and tournaments. The group we play with is friendly and mildly competitive.  I'm not sure I understand differentiating between efficient and competitive view of the game.

She's painted miniatures before, but never really gotten into gaming. Based on her reactions to seeing models, she seems to be interested in collecting, potentially more than gameplay, but she does want to play and be competent in our area. 

[Kokoshi]

41 minutes ago, Wilhelm Stürmer said:

She's by nature competitive, but I highly doubt she'll go past just local events and tournaments. The group we play with is friendly and mildly competitive.  I'm not sure I understand differentiating between efficient and competitive view of the game.

She's painted miniatures before, but never really gotten into gaming. Based on her reactions to seeing models, she seems to be interested in collecting, potentially more than gameplay, but she does want to play and be competent in our area. 

Sorry if my english is not accurate. Both words were not exclusive : competitive followed the idea of list building in order to win, efficient followed the idea of buying miniatures that are useful in match play rather than beautiful.

 

If she likes a bit of eveything in the Death range I would go Legions of Nagash. You can put Nighthaunts in the army without losing any of its efficiency.

I would go for a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon and a Necromancer. After that the choice is hers between Deathrattle (Skeletons, Grave Guards) or Nighthaunts (Grimghast Reapers) to fill battleline slots and grind the enemy. A unit of Dire Wolves is always appreciated.

If she really wants to have Flesh Eater, I would simply ally an Archregent. He can summon and buff its own stuff - even without any allegiance abilities he's effective.

[Neck-Romantic]

Really hoping this price drop rumor comes through. Would love to squeeze a Mourngul or unit of Myrmourns into my TAC list

Edited May 3, 2019 by Neck-Romantic

[Ahn-ket]

1 minute ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Really hopong this price drop rumor comes through. Would love to squeeze a Mourngul or unit of Myrmourns into my TAC list

What price drop rumor?

[Nin Win]

I'm thinking about buying some nighthaunt from a friend, but I'm worried about how their fragile and spindly nature will come into play with the stripping process.  I usually strip models by putting them in an appropriate cleaner (LA's Awesome, Simple Green or Superclean or something like that) and then taking a toothbrush to them.  Is this going to result in a lot of broken models?  Will there be paint I can't get at in the inside of the more hollow ones?  Am I going to be taking forever to get the paint off of them, having to hold each of them super carefully to not break things?

Edited May 3, 2019 by Nin Win

[Evil Bob]

5 hours ago, Nin Win said:

I usually strip models by putting them in an appropriate cleaner (LA's Awesome, Simple Green or Superclean or something like that) and then taking a toothbrush to them.  Is this going to result in a lot of broken models?

Breakage is more going to be determined if the plastic was already stressed during assembly or use/storage.

At the local gaming store the part-owner used to have a plastic tub with acrylic ooz in it from vehicles that where left sitting in LA’s Awesome for months.  If mechanical forces are a concern do multiple baths with a lighter touch.  In the end the only metric is how personally perceived quality needs to be.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Evil Bob

[Hideaki]

12 hours ago, Ahn-ket said:

What price drop rumor?

There a few rumours that the points will drop across the board for the Nighthaunt. Which looking at the new point-cost for skaven and Fec start to be believable

[Nin Win]

1 hour ago, Evil Bob said:

Breakage is more going to be determined if the plastic was already stressed during assembly or use/storage.

At the local gaming store the part-owner used to have a plastic tub with acrylic ooz in it from vehicles that where left sitting in LA’s Awesome for months.  If mechanical forces are a concern do multiple baths with a lighter touch.  In the end the only metric is how personally perceived quality needs to be.

I've left miniatures sitting in LA's Awesome for weeks and they never melted.  Do you mean the acrylic ooze was from paint?

As for your first point, I think that might be the thing I need to think about.  There might be some issues with damage from assembly and storage.  

Edited May 3, 2019 by Nin Win

[Evil Bob]

16 minutes ago, Nin Win said:

Do you mean the acrylic ooze was from paint?

Yep.  It was mind boggling why it was left to build up.  Might have been a gross-pride thing.

[Tropical Ghost General]

So some Forbidden Power info has been released and it looks like mercenaries are being added to the game. Not sure how I feel about this.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/04/australian-championship-warhammer-previewgw-homepage-post-1/

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Tropical Ghost General

[Qrow]

1 hour ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

So some Forbidden Power info has been released and it looks like mercenaries are being added to the game. Not sure how I feel about this.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/04/australian-championship-warhammer-previewgw-homepage-post-1/

 

If these mercenary companies are similar to shadespire warbands than it might not be too bad, may as well wait to see what they are like before making a judgement either way.

I'm more interested in who/what that figure in the background of the olynder fight is.

[Stroke]

On 4/15/2019 at 12:35 PM, whispersofblood said:

I've seen that people have insisted on the KoSoES as being an option in the Shroud guard battalion what is there reasoning here? There are more clear examples against than for as far as I can see. And, the neither FAQ or commentary mentions it at all.

I had a similar thought then just looked at the warscroll for the model and realized his steed is not part of his NAME. You're over thinking it.

[Greasygeek]

On the topic of Knight of Shroud on Ethereal Steed..

I own the official one but really find the model puny looking so now I am scouting for models to kitbash my own.  To be honest my real beef with the Knight of Shrouds are the batmanwannabe antennas and also the horses princess Leia wig. 

So far im thinking of putting the torso of the wight king on top of one of the horses from that FEC endless spell.

The idea is to have him come charging up from the ground. 

Anyone has any good ideas or great places (besides just googling) to look for inspiration. My guess is that I can’t be the only person who thought about converting him.

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Greasygeek tbh I never use him. Given the choice between the KoSos and the VL (ally), the VL wins everytime. I find with conversion work it's always best to evaluate how much table time the model is likely to see to figure out how much effort to put into the conversion.

[AHexInScarletRed]

1 hour ago, Greasygeek said:

On the topic of Knight of Shroud on Ethereal Steed..

I own the official one but really find the model puny looking so now I am scouting for models to kitbash my own.  To be honest my real beef with the Knight of Shrouds are the batmanwannabe antennas and also the horses princess Leia wig. 

So far im thinking of putting the torso of the wight king on top of one of the horses from that FEC endless spell.

The idea is to have him come charging up from the ground. 

Anyone has any good ideas or great places (besides just googling) to look for inspiration. My guess is that I can’t be the only person who thought about converting him.

I'm gonna do something like this, but for my Vampire Lord on Nightmare (and the shadow will be blood, but still):

 

[Greasygeek]

3 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@Greasygeek tbh I never use him. Given the choice between the KoSos and the VL (ally), the VL wins everytime. I find with conversion work it's always best to evaluate how much table time the model is likely to see to figure out how much effort to put into the conversion.

Yeah.. I gotta admit that starting on the knight is not on top of the list of things I prefer to do at the moment. However as I am wrapping up painting and building my Nighthaunt army (at least until GHB19 is out) it just seem wrong not to have the poor guy amongst them but I haven’t tried him yet. My soulwars knight is still unassembled in the box so... but maybe I should just accept not having him. The army is at 3100pt right now, and I still need to build and paint a covern throne and Kurdoss, and the GOS w. Mortality glass.

 

[Erdemo86]

Hey guys what is the thypical meta 2000 points nighthaunt army? For competitive tournaments.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Erdemo86

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Greasygeek I have so much unbuilt stuff from my multiple soul wars buys, it's the curse of needing cheap chainrasps 😂.

 

@Erdemo86 tbh there isn't really a 'go-to' netlist for ghosts, due to ghosts not being a top tier army. More and more competitive players are turning away from ghosts due to the book not being able to go 5-0 on a consistent basis. It's not to say that ghosts can't win events, but generally we are not going to be an effective and desirable choice for competitive players when there are other options like DoK, FEC, Skaven, Fryeslayers, Slaanesh, etc.... 

But what seems to be happening currently in the competitive meta with ghosts is running lots of MSUs. I was planning on using a silly combo using a Lord Executioner in the execution horde battalion, as he could be made to be -3 to hit against everything, and for a few games it worked really well, but it's a 900pt investment for a very slow moving tarpit, which (as I found out in the last few games) your opponent can completely negate with some lucky dice rolls or sheer weight of attacks. Also more of the new books have a change in wording for minus modifiers to hit and wound, as newer books allow re-roll hits, rather than re-roll failed hits, so as more and more books come out, using clever tricks and combos (like the Lord Ex blob) become less and less viable as an option.

Personally I am now switching back to what I was running towards the end of last year, lots of low level heroes and lots of MSU units, most of my 2k lists are hitting 14+ drops (one was even 21 drops 😂). As we lack the ability to auto-delete units in the game, we have to rely on sneaky movement shenanigans and other stuff like that.

Generally the most taken stuff is: Dreadblade as general, bladegheists, grimghasts, chainrasps. Everything else all comes down to personal preference because whatever we bring to the table, a lot of the top tier armies at the moment can mow through it all without any effort, so build up something that you prefer to play rather than aiming to win events.  

[Neck-Romantic]

I might come back to AoS if our ghosts get some love, but out where Im at most of the activity is BCP point farming netlisters with Deepkin and Skaven just trucking me : /

[Tropical Ghost General]

Yeah, @Neck-Romantic we aren't doing well and there is still a lot of blind ignorance in some ghost groups and gaming circles to the facts that we have one of (if not the) weakest of the newer books and are incredibly unlikely to see any drastic updates until everyone else has there own updates and new books. It's not in GW's interest for one of the their core box set armies to perform so badly and be so under represented, that is the only hope that we have for an fixes.

But for all the doom and gloom, I am preferring where we are at the moment. Being so under the curve is forcing me to up my game, to look at new combos, find newer ways to overcome the obstacles that we face. As a staff member at my local GW (who is a very good player) repeatedly says 'Get good" and he's completely right. We can still win events and games, even if it is much harder for us that a lot of the other factions. And you learn so much more through defeat than you do through victory and tbh I've been learning more and more and have been improving more and more as a player. When I enter tournaments now I know that I have such a slim chance of getting anywhere near the top tables, but it takes the pressure off and makes the event a more enjoyable experience. 

To help put things into context a bit more, my regular DoK player, who regularly pummels me whenever we play. In the last few months I've played him 5-6 times and every time I do a little bit better. In the last game I almost won but the dice gods abandoned me, some attacks and saves were well below average, for example a spirit torment got a 10+ charge on a hag queen with only 2 wounds left and failed to cause a single hit with the WoT attacks and the regular combat attacks, but even with that sort of luck I actually managed to do some damage to him which I hadn't been able to before. I still got tabled, but only just due to mortal wounds bouncing back at me and taking the last 2 wounds off my last remaining model. It turns out that DoK player is currently 4-0 at the Warhammer World GT heat 2 going into their game 5, so I don't feel bad for the complete pounding that I've taken, as it's helped me to learn how to overcome a very strong army and a very strong player, as I know that had the dice not failed me that game, I could have potentially won as I would have removed his cauldron and his hag before turn 3.#

So in summary, yes we suck currently in the meta at the moment and are unlikely to get any help that won't be the sort of help that also gives other armies a boost as well, but use that disadvantage as an opportunity to just get better at the game and become a better player, so that when we get a decent book, then you'll be able to stomp over everyone.

[Neck-Romantic]

Oddly enough I tend to hold my own and run rampant over Stormcast, Chaos and Sylvans