AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Ratcliff]

15 hours ago, Rangeltoft said:

a quick quetion regarding Favoured Poxes.

does a charge count as a move for breaking the spell? i.e if i cast it with a Poxbringer and then charge in the charge phase, would the spell end?

 

/Cheers Rangeltoft

 

Yep, the spell would end. Unless stated otherwise, moves should be considered moves, charges, pile ins and everything in between

[Ratcliff]

52 minutes ago, Floom said:

If both the gain contagion points and Horticulous's spawn a gnarlmaw ability happen "at the start of the hero phase", can I summon one before gaining points or is there some overriding rule I'm missing? 

 

 

They both activate at the start of the hero phase. So yes, you could plant the tree first and then get the contagion points from it

[sal4m4nd3r]

(Posted in wrong thread)

Edited July 22, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[hughwyeth]

On 7/17/2019 at 9:41 PM, sal4m4nd3r said:

Leaders
Gutrot Spume (140)
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- General
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing 
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Festus the Leechlord (140)
The Contorted Epitome (200)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 200 / 400
Wounds: 199
 

I literally had a dream about playing contorted epitome vs my friend's skryre because of your posts about it. His Warp Lightning cannons trying to take it down and it keeps saving with it's 2+ then blightkings hit, rerolling 1s, wiping out 40 clanrats in one go. I read this thread too much!

Edited July 22, 2019 by hughwyeth

[wayniac]

What are people's thoughts on Pusgoyle Blightlords?  They seem like really cool models but I'm not convinced even with the points drop.  They seem to hit all the good parts: Fast, tough, can hit like other armies' heroes, but you don't see them a lot.

I have two and am strongly considering getting a SC! box since I need an extra 5 Blightkings anyway, which would give me 4.  The main issue  I have is the unit size is 2 so you're screwed if you want to make one into a Lord of Affliction, you'll have to hunt eBay for a single Blightlord or trade with someone who also made a LoA or something.

The LoA himself seems like he might be worth taking even on his own, since he's a pretty fast and hard-hitting character (I am considering taking him with a Rustfang and sending him to assist a 10-man Blightking Bomb w/Spume) but he himself costs as much as a unit of 2 regular guys.

[sal4m4nd3r]

3 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

I literally had a dream about playing contorted epitome vs my friend's skryre because of your posts about it. His Warp Lightning cannons trying to take it down and it keeps saving with it's 2+ then blightkings hit, rerolling 1s, wiping out 40 clanrats in one go. I read this thread too much!

Well I took that list to a local RTT here in Virginia. I ended up going 3-0 and winning the event, as well as best painted single model for my converted/kitbashed warshrine. The epitome was great. The reliable spell casting was ..different LOL and nice to have. The only time it was ineffective was against Arkhan legion of sacrament list with arcane terrain. But in that game (relocation orb) just ran away from him, I bogged him down with blightkings and just summoned onto the objective wherever it landed. 

Secon game there was some controversy and I'd like your guys' opinions on this. It was against a Deathmarch. He had a big unit of black knights, 40 skeletons, 10 skeletons, 10 skeletons, 30 grave guard, coven throne, and some support characters. Mission was battle for the pass. I was shocked when he gave me first turn. So I ran my block of marauders onto my left objective. And had gutrot come in from the edge on the right objective. Here is the controversy. 

Spume and the kings must be within 6"  of the board edge. The objective must be 12" from the board edge. Do I control that objective? There is an FAQ that says you are within a point on the battlefield if you are EQUAL to or LESS then the specified distance. So the TO sided with me when I showed him this and awarded me the objective, I ended up winning the game because of this. Several people told me I shouldn't have won, and I was being a WAAC player. And I wasn't playing to the spirit of the game essentially.  My opponent (who is a close friend of mine) was really chill about the whole thing. It was everyone else around that were kind of being dicks. The 6" objective capturing bubble should mathematically touch one point on the base of the model that is at the apex of that bubble. Basically because both lines (spume and the objective bubble) meet at the same point, and the FAQ specifices EQUAL TO.. thoughts?

Third game was against nighaunt (death riders battalion) on scorched earth. I played like ****** but still won on the back of blightkings just doing work. Anytime I got onto an objective I burned it and didn't try to be cute and hold as many as I could. Just get one it, burn it and move to the next one to try to play a morale game (morale of my opponent) and force some bad decisions or scrambling. To his credit he stayed cool and had a chance to win but I had GREAT rolls on the VP d3 rolls and him not so good or average. 

Three highlights:

10 blightkings with RR 1s (epitome) and RR all wounds (warshrine) charging in and wiping out an entire unit of 40 skeletons. 

45 attacks from 9 kings with blades of putrefaction just obliterating 10 hexwraiths.

Summoning a gnarlmaw, off my initial gnarlmaw, and then summoning 5 plaguebearers from the second gnarlmaw onto an objective and razing it for 3 VP. 

[hughwyeth]

29 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

[...]

Spume and the kings must be within 6"  of the board edge. The objective must be 12" from the board edge. Do I control that objective? There is an FAQ that says you are within a point on the battlefield if you are EQUAL to or LESS then the specified distance. So the TO sided with me when I showed him this and awarded me the objective, I ended up winning the game because of this. Several people told me I shouldn't have won, and I was being a WAAC player. And I wasn't playing to the spirit of the game essentially.  My opponent (who is a close friend of mine) was really chill about the whole thing. It was everyone else around that were kind of being dicks. The 6" objective capturing bubble should mathematically touch one point on the base of the model that is at the apex of that bubble. Basically because both lines (spume and the objective bubble) meet at the same point, and the FAQ specifices EQUAL TO.. thoughts?

[...]

10 blightkings with RR 1s (epitome) and RR all wounds (warshrine) charging in and wiping out an entire unit of 40 skeletons. 

45 attacks from 9 kings with blades of putrefaction just obliterating 10 hexwraiths.

Summoning a gnarlmaw, off my initial gnarlmaw, and then summoning 5 plaguebearers from the second gnarlmaw onto an objective and razing it for 3 VP. 

RE 6"- GW FAQd this and you are correct. I personally would have ruled the other way- 5.99999" is "within" 6", but GW ruled it that way, conscious of the fact there are several instances where it's vital- this on being one of them. If GW didn't want to, they would have ruled it otherwise. The intention was that you could grab it, so people should stop complaining. 

I only have 10BKs, but running 2x 10 and then MSU plaguebearers would be nice, with Epitome. Would want to do a nurgle themed epitome, which i guess isn't exactly fluffy? Can a daemon from Slaanesh be touched by Papa?

[wayniac]

3 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Can a daemon from Slaanesh be touched by Papa?

I don't think any of the daemons can be touched by the other Gods, although they can be tricked/influenced (see: Tzeentch and Skarbrand).  I think they're immune to actually being corrupted by other gods, since unlike mortals they are intrinsically bound to the god.

Could be wrong though, there might be precedent in one of the stories that it's the opposite.

[sal4m4nd3r]

7 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

RE 6"- GW FAQd this and you are correct. I personally would have ruled the other way- 5.99999" is "within" 6", but GW ruled it that way, conscious of the fact there are several instances where it's vital- this on being one of them. If GW didn't want to, they would have ruled it otherwise. The intention was that you could grab it, so people should stop complaining. 

I only have 10BKs, but running 2x 10 and then MSU plaguebearers would be nice, with Epitome. Would want to do a nurgle themed epitome, which i guess isn't exactly fluffy? Can a daemon from Slaanesh be touched by Papa?

I will be posting WIP shots soon. Im still cobbling together a concept. Going to be using Gresus goldtooth model (fat ogre king with a turkey leg in one hand and mace in the other,  whilst him and a large chest of gold and gems being ferried by a sea of knoblars) but he will be ferried by nurglings, on a palanquin, with the mirror from the bloodwrack shrine being propped up by more nurglings... with the reflection of a beautiful lithe blond haired handsome man in the mirror. Hopefully I can do it justice.

Someone told me they wouldn't allow me to cap the objective because our tools to measure the situation are not precise enough to accurately measure that small level of interaction. I understand that but via the rules, I capture it. I got gang banged in my gaming group chat for suggesting I use math and rules to score an objective... so just looking to the outside to see if I could have a case. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[hughwyeth]

20 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I will be posting WIP shots soon. Im still cobbling together a concept. Going to be using Gresus goldtooth model (fat ogre king with a turkey leg in one hand and mace in the other,  whilst him and a large chest of gold and gems being ferried by a sea of knoblars) but he will be ferried by nurglings, on a palanquin, with the mirror from the bloodwrack shrine being propped up by more nurglings... with the reflection of a beautiful lithe blond haired handsome man in the mirror. Hopefully I can do it justice.

Someone told me they wouldn't allow me to cap the objective because our tools to measure the situation are not precise enough to accurately measure that small level of interaction. I understand that but via the rules, I capture it. I got gang banged in my gaming group chat for suggesting I use math and rules to score an objective... so just looking to the outside to see if I could have a case. 

Yeah that's bollocks. Everyone does the 9" deepstriking thing by saying "these guys are 9" away", we don't spend 30 minutes making sure we have a tool to accurately measure the distance. They're 9" for charge roll and rules purposes. Same with the 6" distance for objectives. Why are people pissed when you're not exactly playing with a top tier army anyway??

Love your concept for the epitome!

[sal4m4nd3r]

2 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Yeah that's bollocks. Everyone does the 9" deepstriking thing by saying "these guys are 9" away", we don't spend 30 minutes making sure we have a tool to accurately measure the distance. They're 9" for charge roll and rules purposes. Same with the 6" distance for objectives. Why are people pissed when you're not exactly playing with a top tier army anyway??

Love your concept for the epitome!

And to be clear, summoning specifies MORE THAN 9” away. So you just be 9.000000001” away. Being considered within a point on the battlefield you just be EQUAL TO OR LESS then specified distance. So if you and point are exactly 6” away...you are considered within. But I guess I’m a rules lawyer waac player 😅.......😞

[knas]

In more casual play is Morbidex, Bloab & Orghott any good? Same with the Glottkin? Looking at their stats they seem to fill kinda weird roles.

[hughwyeth]

8 minutes ago, knas said:

In more casual play is Morbidex, Bloab & Orghott any good? Same with the Glottkin? Looking at their stats they seem to fill kinda weird roles.

Glottkin is great in many lists. It's expensive but it's spell is crazy good on someting like 30 plaguebearers. It's vulnerable to shooting and has no 5++ - taking it with a harbinger can fix that but then you've got a 580pt model with the 5++. I like using it but have switched to a GUO as it just fits into lists better, gives +3" move and has bonus to cast- something which is unavailable anywhere else in a nurgle list. 

[sal4m4nd3r]

1 hour ago, knas said:

In more casual play is Morbidex, Bloab & Orghott any good? Same with the Glottkin? Looking at their stats they seem to fill kinda weird roles.

Glottkin is godly in a horde list, or a list with a couple big units. In casual bloab is great. The spell is insane if combo’d right. Debuff is good but requires a screen. 

[Ratcliff]

6 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Well I took that list to a local RTT here in Virginia. I ended up going 3-0 and winning the event, as well as best painted single model for my converted/kitbashed warshrine. The epitome was great. The reliable spell casting was ..different LOL and nice to have. The only time it was ineffective was against Arkhan legion of sacrament list with arcane terrain. But in that game (relocation orb) just ran away from him, I bogged him down with blightkings and just summoned onto the objective wherever it landed. 

Secon game there was some controversy and I'd like your guys' opinions on this. It was against a Deathmarch. He had a big unit of black knights, 40 skeletons, 10 skeletons, 10 skeletons, 30 grave guard, coven throne, and some support characters. Mission was battle for the pass. I was shocked when he gave me first turn. So I ran my block of marauders onto my left objective. And had gutrot come in from the edge on the right objective. Here is the controversy. 

Spume and the kings must be within 6"  of the board edge. The objective must be 12" from the board edge. Do I control that objective? There is an FAQ that says you are within a point on the battlefield if you are EQUAL to or LESS then the specified distance. So the TO sided with me when I showed him this and awarded me the objective, I ended up winning the game because of this. Several people told me I shouldn't have won, and I was being a WAAC player. And I wasn't playing to the spirit of the game essentially.  My opponent (who is a close friend of mine) was really chill about the whole thing. It was everyone else around that were kind of being dicks. The 6" objective capturing bubble should mathematically touch one point on the base of the model that is at the apex of that bubble. Basically because both lines (spume and the objective bubble) meet at the same point, and the FAQ specifices EQUAL TO.. thoughts?

Third game was against nighaunt (death riders battalion) on scorched earth. I played like ****** but still won on the back of blightkings just doing work. Anytime I got onto an objective I burned it and didn't try to be cute and hold as many as I could. Just get one it, burn it and move to the next one to try to play a morale game (morale of my opponent) and force some bad decisions or scrambling. To his credit he stayed cool and had a chance to win but I had GREAT rolls on the VP d3 rolls and him not so good or average. 

Three highlights:

10 blightkings with RR 1s (epitome) and RR all wounds (warshrine) charging in and wiping out an entire unit of 40 skeletons. 

45 attacks from 9 kings with blades of putrefaction just obliterating 10 hexwraiths.

Summoning a gnarlmaw, off my initial gnarlmaw, and then summoning 5 plaguebearers from the second gnarlmaw onto an objective and razing it for 3 VP. 

 

You were completely right, it was literally specified by GW

[hughwyeth]

13 hours ago, Ratcliff said:

 

You were completely right, it was literally specified by GW

Yep- it's both RAW and RAI, literally zero argument to be had. 

[Turragor]

21 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Spume and the kings must be within 6"  of the board edge. The objective must be 12" from the board edge. Do I control that objective? There is an FAQ that says you are within a point on the battlefield if you are EQUAL to or LESS then the specified distance. So the TO sided with me when I showed him this and awarded me the objective, I ended up winning the game because of this. Several people told me I shouldn't have won, and I was being a WAAC player. And I wasn't playing to the spirit of the game essentially.  My opponent (who is a close friend of mine) was really chill about the whole thing. It was everyone else around that were kind of being dicks. The 6" objective capturing bubble should mathematically touch one point on the base of the model that is at the apex of that bubble. Basically because both lines (spume and the objective bubble) meet at the same point, and the FAQ specifices EQUAL TO.. thoughts?

This exact topic caused a furore in the Swedish AoS FB group I'm with letting TOs rule in each case or agree with my opponent beforehand. IE I don't plan to take objectives that way as a suprise to my opponent.  If it comes up, I have no strong opinion but if my opponent was trying to suprise me Id let TOs rule and not get involved too much!

It's basically too long and complicated to go into with an opponent

[Zplash]

1 hour ago, hughwyeth said:

Yep- it's both RAW and RAI, literally zero argument to be had. 

Can someone share the FAQ for this topic? Might save some discussion time if such a case occurs in my next games

[Vomikron Noxis]

@Ratcliff Could you let me know what your Tallyband list looks like, and a bit about how you run it? I’ve been toying with one since day one, but the cost of the battalion always put me off.

[Turragor]

22 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

Why are people pissed when you're not exactly playing with a top tier army anyway??

Quite a lot of flanking deployments are 6". And most objectives are 12" in. It's either deliberate to allow capping or to prohibit capping depending on your viewpoint on whether it's cheesy or not ... or its just yet another unexpected interaction from GW

It 100% depends on an objective being totally unwatched too, mathematically (I believe, I'm terrible at maths) you can only ever get 1 model in this situation - the 1 perpendicular to the objective point (everything else is outside that magic 6" quantum area).

Edited July 23, 2019 by Turragor

[sal4m4nd3r]

59 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Quite a lot of flanking deployments are 6". And most objectives are 12" in. It's either deliberate to allow capping or to prohibit capping depending on your viewpoint on whether it's cheesy or not ... or its just yet another unexpected interaction from GW

It 100% depends on an objective being totally unwatched too, mathematically (I believe, I'm terrible at maths) you can only ever get 1 model in this situation - the 1 perpendicular to the objective point (everything else is outside that magic 6" quantum area).

Exactly. Because the objective is a "bubble" or a circle around the center of the objective, and the unit outflanking is set-up in a line parallel to the board, the circle would only ever touch one model. The one at the apex of the circle. But in my case, this was top of turn one and allowed me to score two victory points, which was critical to winning the game. 

@Zplash I guess I was referencing an old FAQ. Here is the only thing I could find in the CORE RULES faq.. which still validates my point because it specifies equal to or less. (emphasis mine)

DISTANCES Q: Sometimes a rule will specify that a model or unit needs to be ‘wholly within’ a certain distance. What exactly does ‘wholly within’ mean?

A:  A model is wholly within a certain distance if every part of its base is within the stated distance.  A unit is wholly within a certain distance if every part of the bases of all of the models in the unit is within the stated distance. For example, a model would be wholly within 12" of the edge of the battlefield as long as every part of its base was 12" or less from the edge, while a unit would be wholly within 12" of the edge of the battlefield as long as every part of every base of the models from the unit were 12" or less from the edge.

This needs to be specifically addressed by GW because it will cause some issues at events. I plan to alert EVERY TO to this situation before the event begins. 

[wayniac]

I've been thinking, I get that the Blight Cyst is a go-to thing but it seems on paper that a Lord of Plagues, a Harbinger and then 10-20 Blightkings either in one or multiple units  (probably 2, as 20 BKs is more prone to Battleshock) within 7" is a pretty tanky package.  You get the 5++ aura from the Harbinger and the re-roll 1s from the Lord of Plagues which IIRC is not on a unit but an aura so it can affect both units, and that's before you consider something like a GUO with the Bell and plaguebearers.  That's a big wall of meat moving forward faster than you expect..  You lose out on the -1 Rend from Blight Cyst, which is big, but that doesn't seem half bad in certain situations if you aren't using Blight Cyst as a generic all comers.

Edited July 23, 2019 by wayniac

[Dreadmund]

14 hours ago, wayniac said:

I've been thinking, I get that the Blight Cyst is a go-to thing but it seems on paper that a Lord of Plagues, a Harbinger and then 10-20 Blightkings either in one or multiple units  (probably 2, as 20 BKs is more prone to Battleshock) within 7" is a pretty tanky package.  You get the 5++ aura from the Harbinger and the re-roll 1s from the Lord of Plagues which IIRC is not on a unit but an aura so it can affect both units, and that's before you consider something like a GUO with the Bell and plaguebearers.  That's a big wall of meat moving forward faster than you expect..  You lose out on the -1 Rend from Blight Cyst, which is big, but that doesn't seem half bad in certain situations if you aren't using Blight Cyst as a generic all comers.

Why not just take blight cyst and add a Lord of Plagues to the list? You can have both that way.

[wayniac]

1 hour ago, Dreadmund said:

Why not just take blight cyst and add a Lord of Plagues to the list? You can have both that way.

Points, mainly lol. But that's partially because I keep wanting to put Pusgoyle Blightlords into a list, 2 or even 4. 

[Dreadmund]

1 minute ago, wayniac said:

Points, mainly lol. But that's partially because I keep wanting to put Pusgoyle Blightlords into a list, 2 or even 4. 

The Lord of Afflictions also grants RR1's to hit. He has a great damage profile and works well with a unit of Pusgoyles because his command ability can really rocket them across the board to get to a juicy target. If you are willing to spend 400 points on flies, 1 of him and 2 pusgoyles seems like a better investment in my mind than 4 Pusgoyles.

I do wish Plague Cyst was stronger. If you do decide to take a Lord of Plagues in your list, consider giving him the Ghyrstrike artefact. It makes him so badass. 2+  to hit and wound, rerolling 1s to hit and with exploding attacks on a 5 and a 6 for -1 rend and d3 damage. I would love to try him out in a meeting engagement.