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AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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1 hour ago, Darkfine said:

So, I’m curious if anyone else is struggling to stay relevant lately?  

The army has always been dependent on getting spells off and stacking various bonuses but it doesn’t feel like enough anymore.

Has Nurgle just naturally passed out of the limelight for the time being?

I think we suffer a little from being the first battletome made with AOS2 in mind. We got the unique scenery, but no endless spells. Newer armies have lots of abilities that emphasize things like being able to attack first or attack twice which we don't have. Like you say, some of our best tools are powerful buffing/debuffing spells but we have very few ways to improve our spellcasting, which means that some of our best lists also have some of the hardest counters. We're probably going to be at the bottom of the list for further rebalancing or new toys too since there are many more factions waiting for their AOS2 battletome release. Best get comfortable with what we have, it's unlikely to change for the foreseeable future except for some gentle point tweaking in the GHB2019.

That being said I think we're doing better than a lot of other armies. We have a great set of tools, they're just not as dependable as the newer armies benefitting from a bit of power creep. We have to pursue our unique strengths to win games, like our innate tankiness, excellent unit synergies and easy access to units from Skaven Pestilens and probably the upcoming Slaves/Darkoath battletome. We're in a fairly middle of the road position now, but these things change and when they do you won't have the heartbreak of being overpowered and seeing your uber-powerful army get nerfed to a shadow of their former selves. By the time we're the new hotness again, your experiences playing with an average powered army will have made you a better general because you won't be able to rely on whatever overpowered gimmick is currently the flavour of the month.

Edited by Dreadmund
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35 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

I think we suffer a little from being the first battletome made with AOS2 in mind. We got the unique scenery, but no endless spells. Newer armies have lots of abilities that emphasize things like being able to attack first or attack twice which we don't have. Like you say, some of our best tools are powerful buffing/debuffing spells but we have very few ways to improve our spellcasting, which means that some of our best lists also have some of the hardest counters. We're probably going to be at the bottom of the list for further rebalancing or new toys too since there are many more factions waiting for their AOS2 battletome release. Best get comfortable with what we have, it's unlikely to change for the foreseeable future except for some gentle point tweaking in the GHB2019.

That being said I think we're doing better than a lot of other armies. We have a great set of tools, they're just not as dependable as the newer armies benefitting from a bit of power creep. We have to pursue our unique strengths to win games, like our innate tankiness, excellent unit synergies and easy access to units from Skaven Pestilens and probably the upcoming Slaves/Darkoath battletome. We're in a fairly middle of the road position now, but these things change and when they do you won't have the heartbreak of being overpowered and seeing your uber-powerful army get nerfed to a shadow of their former selves. By the time we're the new hotness again, your experiences playing with an average powered army will have made you a better general because you won't be able to rely on whatever overpowered gimmick it the current flavour of the month.

I'd also say if our stuff gets a points drop in GH19 we'll be in a better place. Right now thricefold is the only list that seems to go 4-1 or better at tournaments, but plaguebearers and blightkings are great battleline units. Plague drones are a great unit in general too, but at 2k points i always feel i don't quite have enough. I also think if blades of putrefaction and blightknig's ability trigger on a role of 6 before modifiers that would really help. Right now there's so much -1 to hit stuff that blades and blightkings become useless/extremely expensive unit for zero damage output. 

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1 hour ago, Darkfine said:

So, I’m curious if anyone else is struggling to stay relevant lately?  

The army has always been dependent on getting spells off and stacking various bonuses but it doesn’t feel like enough anymore.

Has Nurgle just naturally passed out of the limelight for the time being?

Yes. But much like or plague father, power waxes and wanes. It’s all just part of the unstoppable and inevitable cycle of decay and regrowth. 

On a serious note, my list building these days relies on flexibility, adaptability, not relying on spells, tanking damage. Gameplay I focus on objectives, rather then getting dragged into a fight that isn’t in my favor.

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1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Yes. But much like or plague father, power waxes and wanes. It’s all just part of the unstoppable and inevitable cycle of decay and regrowth. 

On a serious note, my list building these days relies on flexibility, adaptability, not relying on spells, tanking damage. Gameplay I focus on objectives, rather then getting dragged into a fight that isn’t in my favor.

I know you're a decent Nurgle player, but not relying on spells, when Nurgle spells are one of the best things about nurgle, just shows how disadvantaged we are by a year and a half of newer battletomes and the huge increase of magic in the meta. 

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17 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

I know you're a decent Nurgle player, but not relying on spells, when Nurgle spells are one of the best things about nurgle, just shows how disadvantaged we are by a year and a half of newer battletomes and the huge increase of magic in the meta. 

I mean even 3 months after the battletome was released..legions of Nagash came out and made magic not worth investing in. Combined with the new 30” dispelling range..

I take blades every game. I cast it almost every turn. If it goes off then I’m more likely to pop Glottkin command ability. If not..I roll with it. But I refuse to develop a game plan that revolves around it. Thats also why I go into my games lately with 2 bonus cp (1900 point list). I can adjust on the fly.  

If you are going first, just put your caster 5.5” from your back board edge (on missions where there is a 24” space between territory) for atleast one turn of no unbinds. 

Edited by sal4m4nd3r
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8 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I mean even 3 months after the battletome was released..legions of Nagash came out and made magic not worth investing in. Combined with the new 30” dispelling range..

I take blades every game. I cast it almost every turn. If it goes off then I’m more likely to pop Glottkin command ability. If not..I roll with it. But I refuse to develop a game plan that revolves around it. Thats also why I go into my games lately with 2 bonus cp (1900 point list). I can adjust on the fly.  

If you are going first, just put your caster 5.5” from your back board edge (on missions where there is a 24” space between territory) for atleast one turn of no unbinds. 

In my last 5 games with nurgle i successfully cast blades twice. Though that luck transferred to my SCE as well, so it's not a nurgle specific problem! I think Glottkin's great- he does great combat and range damage, his spell is one of the best in the game as is his command ability! Only thing for me is the 7 to cast- it just never happens for me (and statistically is like half the time) and it's a big reason to take him IMO. In AoS 1, I always took him and had great success with Nurgle. It's just a little too much like a struggle in AoS 2 to play them too often!

Edited by hughwyeth
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And indeed since papa's power is waxing these days, i was flirting with the new slaanesh and i really liked the contorted epitome. Then i realized i dont want to play Slaanesh i want NURGLE! 

However, we can bring allies. what you guys think of bringing these mirror ladies in a Nurgle armie?

It seems like a nice standalone hero, which can help out with unbinding the opponent,  casting endless spells (since we dont have Nurgle ones they could summon portals, geminids, cogs etc etc.  and their own spell is nice for re-roll and the horrible fascination would also be very helpful.

Besides all those thingies it brings it negates MW on 2+

what you guys think?

 

btw since the model has two spells could it use a a spell from the slaanesh lore? Or are allied wizards bound to their warscrol spells, endless spells and arcane/mystic?

A30C18B4-388E-4951-8965-48A5B916B383.jpeg

Edited by Fluxlord
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Normally I would be cagey about allying in something because so many of our abilities have negative effects on units without the NURGLE keyword. However, with that 2+ Mortal Wound save she's protected from the worst of it...

Allied wizards can't take a Lore spell, either from their own lores or Nurgle's I believe.

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Hi! This saturday I have a lighthearted tournament, only 1k. And I thought of relying in just sit in The objectives and let The enemy try to kill me as The turns go by...

Allegiance: Chaos
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Bile Blade & Massive Bilesword
- Trait: Pestilent Breath 
- Artefact: The Endless Gift 
- Lore of Virulence: Favoured Poxes
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 76
 

Or i could go full blightkings:

Lord of plagues with rustfang

5x5 putrids

Extra CP

What do you think?

 

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7 hours ago, Darkfine said:

So, I’m curious if anyone else is struggling to stay relevant lately?  

The army has always been dependent on getting spells off and stacking various bonuses but it doesn’t feel like enough anymore.

Has Nurgle just naturally passed out of the limelight for the time being?

I think we are in a weak position right now:

Magic: The other 3 chaos gods consistently can shutdown our Magic. Slaanesh is incredibly good at that. 

Summoning: our summoning is The worst of The 4, slaanesh and tzeentch can summon without compromising its táctics (and in huge numbers) khorne is more situational but could go msu (and enemy msu is better!)

Expensive units:  The three maggot lords, nurglings, beasts of nurgle, slopitty, spoilpox, pusgoyles blightlords are unplayable at this momento. (8/24 battletome units)

Battalions: there is only The blight cyst and thricefold (you need to buy 3 guos!) The others are not worth are expensive in points and in filling taxes.

Yes you can take advantatge of nurgle marked units from pestilens and slaves to  darkness ir beasts of chaos but I feel It sad and dont like The looks of The army when you start to mix things from other alliances. 

I put a lot of hopes in GHB'19, for some point reductions so I can play beasts and heralds at last!

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10 hours ago, peasant said:

 

I put a lot of hopes in GHB'19, for some point reductions so I can play beasts and heralds at last!

Yes! Sloppity with morbidex and his Nurglings! 

And with cheaper beast even the menagerie (battalion prices maybe less points too), might be playable at a more competetive scene.

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Generals handbook is getting Closer what are your bets un point changes? Mine:

Heralds (notbpoxbringer)down to 80

Beasts down to 80

Pusgoyles down to 190

Blightkings Up to 180

Festus Up to 150

... And maggot lords down to 200!!

 

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14 hours ago, peasant said:

Generals handbook is getting Closer what are your bets un point changes? Mine:

Heralds (notbpoxbringer)down to 80

Beasts down to 80

Pusgoyles down to 190

Blightkings Up to 180

Festus Up to 150

... And maggot lords down to 200!!

 

Blightkings up? With Hearthguard Beserkers currently costing 40 points less for 5, the only thing that would justify 180 for BKs is unmodified 6s and -1 rend.

I hope the Glottkin gets reduced in price to somewhere in the 300s, as well as the Lord of Afllictions to about 200.

I also think our battalions need a points adjustment, there can't be many factions with more expensive ones.

And in terms of effectiveness, Chaos Warriors should be worth as much as a Feculent Gnarlmaw 😀

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7 hours ago, TheVenerableBede said:

I also think our battalions need a points adjustment, there can't be many factions with more expensive ones.

To be fair 2.0 battalions have also been very much simplified with almost always only having 1 benefit. If Nurgle battalions are going down in price significantly, it'll also have to come with rule slashing/consolidation.

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5 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

To be fair 2.0 battalions have also been very much simplified with almost always only having 1 benefit. If Nurgle battalions are going down in price significantly, it'll also have to come with rule slashing/consolidation.

Good point, our battalions can get good if recibe a discount keeping one of The good benefits like rend in cyst.

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With the exception of blightkings the entire book is 10%-30% overcosted. 

What I would LIKE to see:

glotkin down to 340 (equal to GUO)

horticulous down to 180

lord of afflictions down to 180

all maggoth lords down to 200. 

Plaguebearers down to 100/10. 

Pusgoyles down to 180/2

Beasts and nurglings down to 80

All battalions down 20.

menagerie down 100 to 140

tallyband down 60 to 160

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To be honest, a lot of Battletomes look overcosted if you confront the points to the more recent Battletomes (Nighthaunt, Idoneth, Nurgle with high prices and Fec and Slaven with low points. I get the feeling we will see point reductions across the board.

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6 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

With the exception of blightkings the entire book is 10%-30% overcosted. 

What I would LIKE to see:

glotkin down to 340 (equal to GUO)

horticulous down to 180

lord of afflictions down to 180

all maggoth lords down to 200. 

Plaguebearers down to 100/10. 

Pusgoyles down to 180/2

Beasts and nurglings down to 80

All battalions down 20.

menagerie down 100 to 140

tallyband down 60 to 160

If that becomes true i Will be Happy as a nurgling! I could play The tallyband and The menagerie with lots of beasts

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6 hours ago, Hideaki said:

To be honest, a lot of Battletomes look overcosted if you confront the points to the more recent Battletomes (Nighthaunt, Idoneth, Nurgle with high prices and Fec and Slaven with low points. I get the feeling we will see point reductions across the board.

Dont overhype fellows! Remenber last year ghb, only 20 points reductions in a meh battalion. 

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15 hours ago, Fluxlord said:

Anyone here who ever played beast of chaos units with Nurgle keyword due to the Pestilent battalion?

I was wondering if Harbingers ability works on bestigors and ungors?

It doesnt, because they dont have The mortal keyword... But they are affected hy lord of blights and Blades of putrefaction (and they dont need The nurgle Mark)

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Just now, peasant said:

It doesnt, because they dont have The mortal keyword... But they are affected hy lord of blights and Blades of putrefaction (and they dont need The nurgle Mark)

 But when they have the Nurgle mark... also the wheel applies to them, and blightkings who hang around dont have the change to hurt them but heal them.

(Ill wait for the new GHB and then ill decide to run this battalion for fun, want to paint some new stuff and those beasts might work)

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1 hour ago, peasant said:

Dont overhype fellows! Remenber last year ghb, only 20 points reductions in a meh battalion. 

What gives me hope was that that was right in the early days of AoS 2 and the state of meta hadn't played out. Now in the era of "if everything is OP, then nothing is OP", older battletomes look much tamer than they did a year ago.

I still think we are in a decent enough place, but we have to be a bit smarter in our play than other factions with more cheese. "Get better at Warhammer" as the Honest Wargamer likes to say.

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1 hour ago, Fluxlord said:

 But when they have the Nurgle mark... also the wheel applies to them, and blightkings who hang around dont have the change to hurt them but heal them.

(Ill wait for the new GHB and then ill decide to run this battalion for fun, want to paint some new stuff and those beasts might work)

I started converting centigors they dont need too much nurgle abilities only Blades of put

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