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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

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Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2019 at 12:52 PM, Turragor said:

Adjusting is modifying I'd say 

Im not so certain. The result is not being modified. Its not a -1 or -2. Its changing the dice that was rolled. 

 

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

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16 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Im not so certain. The result is not being modified. Its not a -1 or -2. Its changing the dice that was rolled. 

side note: if I'm banned from TGA in the coming hours.. it was a pleasure chatting with you guys. ^_^

What happened? :D just curious. 

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9 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Im not so certain. The result is not being modified. Its not a -1 or -2. Its changing the dice that was rolled. 

 

I agree, words and terminology are very important.  To modify dice is to alter their final value.  To adjust the dice is to literally pick it up and change what the base number to be modified will be.

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19 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Im not so certain. The result is not being modified. Its not a -1 or -2. Its changing the dice that was rolled. 

 

There is now a thread to that question in this forum and one referred to a actual FAQ that it isn't a modifier so it probably should work on our daemons... 

But look yourself:

 

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Going to play a couple of 1k friendly games this weekend against a Nagash/Nighthaunt Player. I am thinking of trying out a sorcerer with muttergrub, spellportals and rancid visitations in one of them. That would let me deal 1 mortal wound per model within 3 inches of the spellportal to a unit at a pretty long range (plus a spellportal has a bigger base than the sorcerer). Could be a pretty funny way to deal with his skeletons.

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3 hours ago, Dreadmund said:

Going to play a couple of 1k friendly games this weekend against a Nagash/Nighthaunt Player. I am thinking of trying out a sorcerer with muttergrub, spellportals and rancid visitations in one of them. That would let me deal 1 mortal wound per model within 3 inches of the spellportal to a unit at a pretty long range (plus a spellportal has a bigger base than the sorcerer). Could be a pretty funny way to deal with his skeletons.

HOLY SMOKES I never ever thought of this before. WOW thats an awesome combo!

 

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2 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

HOLY SMOKES I never ever thought of this before. WOW thats an awesome combo!

 

Upon further thought I don't think it would actually work. I think I would be able to target a unit within 3 inches of the spellportal, but it would only deal a number of wounds equal to the amount of models from that unit within 3" of the caster which would be zero. I got excited at the idea of using a mortal spell other than blades of putrefaction for once but alas...

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Dreadmund said:

Upon further thought I don't think it would actually work. I think I would be able to target a unit within 3 inches of the spellportal, but it would only deal a number of wounds equal to the amount of models from that unit within 3" of the caster which would be zero. I got excited at the idea of using a mortal spell other than blades of putrefaction for once but alas...

Sorry for the double post but this has been bugging me all night. I think it might actually work! Here's my reasoning.

I posted a topic in the rules questions section yesterday asking about the interaction between Rancid Visitations and the Balewind Vortex:

In it, @Isotop cited the designers commentary for the core rules where it says this:

Quote

Q: Sometimes a spell will have an area of effect (e.g. all models from a unit that are within 18" of the caster, or all models within 3" of a point on the battlefield that is within 24" of the caster). If an ability increases the range of the spell, is the size of this area of effect increased by the same amount as the range is increased? A: If the area of effect is measured from the caster, yes. If the area of effect is measured from a point on the battlefield, no – the ability will increase the range to the point on the battlefield instead. To carry on your example, if an ability increased the range of a spell by 6", then in the first case the spell would affect all the models from the unit that were within 24" of the caster instead of 18", while in the second case the range of the point on the battlefield would be 30" instead of 24" but the spell would still only affect models within 3" of that point. Note that if area of effect is measured from a point on the battlefield, and that point is ‘anywhere on the battlefield’, then an ability that increases the range will have no effect on that spell.

This means that Rancid Visitations can be cast from atop a balewind to affect a 9 inch radius around the caster, instead of 3 inches. Pretty dope. But it also seems to imply that the "range" of a spell is any part of a spell that measures from the caster, rather than from a point on the battlefield. If this is true, then a spellportal which says it allows you to measure"...the range and visibility of the spell..." from the other spellportal should in theory move both the point from which you determine a target unit and the point from which you determine valid models in range to being the portal instead of the caster. This is in contrast to Plaguewind, where it specifically says you have to "draw a line back to the caster" to determine the area of effect and therefore doesn't return to the spellportal (as has been discussed earlier in this thread).

This implies that you could A) cast rancid visitations at range through a spellportal and B) could cast rancid visitations from atop a balewind, through a spellportal to affect a 9 inch radius bubble at range. That seems ludicrous, but also within the rules?

Am I crazy for thinking this works? It just seems too powerful, especially against any horde unit that only has a single wound per model and doesn't have a mortal wound save. You could certainly lock down an objective with it since the area of effect is bigger than the scoring area around a point. There are ways to play around it obviously: kill the caster, unbind any of the three spells, the maggotkin player failing any of the spell rolls (it requires three successful spellcasting rolls of 5, 6 and 7)... Also, since rancid visitation is a Rotbringer lore spell and standing on a balewind require you have less than 9 wounds this combo could only be achieved by a Sorcerer or Festus the Leechlord. Casting through a spellportal could be achieved by any Rotbringer wizard though.

What does everyone here think?

Edited by Dreadmund
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Im going to play with this for sure. It's clear to me it works from FAQ

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That's some evil genius right there. I like it! If someone complains that you are measuring from the second portal, just say, "oh yes, the caster..." and expand the measure to go from the second portal all the way back to the caster and start measuring out a circle with that radius ....

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Posted (edited)
On 5/1/2019 at 4:53 AM, Dreadmund said:

Sorry for the double post but this has been bugging me all night. I think it might actually work! Here's my reasoning.

I posted a topic in the rules questions section yesterday asking about the interaction between Rancid Visitations and the Balewind Vortex:

In it, @Isotop cited the designers commentary for the core rules where it says this:

This means that Rancid Visitations can be cast from atop a balewind to affect a 9 inch radius around the caster, instead of 3 inches. Pretty dope. But it also seems to imply that the "range" of a spell is any part of a spell that measures from the caster, rather than from a point on the battlefield. If this is true, then a spellportal which says it allows you to measure"...the range and visibility of the spell..." from the other spellportal should in theory move both the point from which you determine a target unit and the point from which you determine valid models in range to being the portal instead of the caster. This is in contrast to Plaguewind, where it specifically says you have to "draw a line back to the caster" to determine the area of effect and therefore doesn't return to the spellportal (as has been discussed earlier in this thread).

This implies that you could A) cast rancid visitations at range through a spellportal and B) could cast rancid visitations from atop a balewind, through a spellportal to affect a 9 inch radius bubble at range. That seems ludicrous, but also within the rules?

Am I crazy for thinking this works? It just seems too powerful, especially against any horde unit that only has a single wound per model and doesn't have a mortal wound save. You could certainly lock down an objective with it since the area of effect is bigger than the scoring area around a point. There are ways to play around it obviously: kill the caster, unbind any of the three spells, the maggotkin player failing any of the spell rolls (it requires three successful spellcasting rolls of 5, 6 and 7)... Also, since rancid visitation is a Rotbringer lore spell and standing on a balewind require you have less than 9 wounds this combo could only be achieved by a Sorcerer or Festus the Leechlord. Casting through a spellportal could be achieved by any Rotbringer wizard though.

What does everyone here think?

I tried this last night in a mock game with my buddy. Dude it effing works LOL. Also is a 5,6,6 not 5,6,7. Spell portal is 5. Balewind is 6. Rancid Visitations is 6. 

I placed the Glottkin (I refuse to play a game with my nurgle army without him.. sue me :P) all the way back. His base is 5.5 inches in diameter.. so in a 24"  away from enemy deployment line, he is 30.5" out (so un-unbindable). I placed my rotbringer sorcerer on the deployment line, amongst some blightkings. FIRST cast the balewind. Place balewind 1" in front of rotbringer sorc. Balewind base is 4" diameter. That's an extra ~5". Glottkin casts spell portals. First goes wholly within 12" of Glott, as far front as possible, right next to balewind, the second goes 18" in front of that, right in front of a block of 40 skeletons.  (For lolz... in ulgu it goes anywhere on the battlefield). Now Sorcerer casts rancid visitations through the spell portal which is right next to his balewind. Range and visibility is measured from the second spell portal, and increased by 6". So18"+the balewind shenanigans that got you just under 5"= 23" which is all the way across no man's land to right in front of their line. Add the 9" and it was EASILY enough to fit all 40 skeletons. 40 mortal wounds.

motherf*ckng lol

Edited by sal4m4nd3r
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5 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Also is a 5,6,6 not 5,6,7. Spell portal is 5. Balewind is 6. Rancid Visitations is 6. 

Oh damn, I guess I must have assumed wrongly since most Nurgle Lores are 7. Probability of rolling above a 6 on 2 dice is 68.75% and rolling above a 5 is 87.5% so that just makes this combo even more attractive. The biggest threat to it's success is a good unbinding roll or some kind of unbind buffing shenanigans from a magic heavy army. Still, you can get great results even without the balewind range buff - being able to project that zone of death across such a range and with no immediate risk to the caster is excellent.

I guess my Rotbringer Sorcerer just moved to the top of my painting queue!

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

Oh damn, I guess I must have assumed wrongly since most Nurgle Lores are 7. Probability of rolling above a 6 on 2 dice is 68.75% and rolling above a 5 is 87.5% so that just makes this combo even more attractive. The biggest threat to it's success is a good unbinding roll or some kind of unbind buffing shenanigans from a magic heavy army. Still, you can get great results even without the balewind range buff - being able to project that zone of death across such a range and with no immediate risk to the caster is excellent.

I guess my Rotbringer Sorcerer just moved to the top of my painting queue!

Well if you put the RS on the 30.5" line from enemy deployment you can get an un-unbindable balewind cast off. Then it goes 1" in front (so 1 free inch essentially) and then the balewind is >4" so thats 5 inches extra total. Now your basically on the front of your line. You would still only be able to cross 18"/24" no mans land. but with the 9" range you would be able to reach into the enemies lines 3"

This would make only rancid visitations unbindable. 

Edited by sal4m4nd3r
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1 minute ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Well if you put the RS on the 30.5" line from enemy deployment you can get an un-unbindable balewind cast off. Then it goes 1" in front (so 1 free inch essentially) and then the balewind is >4" so thats 5 inches extra total. Now your basically on the front of your line. You would still only be able to cross 18"/24" no mans land. but with the 9" range you would be able to reach into the enemies lines 3"

This would make only rancid visitations unbindable. 

Stop, I'm getting lightheaded :x

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Just now, Dreadmund said:

Stop, I'm getting lightheaded :x

All this talk of extra inches 

giphy.gif

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Posted (edited)

Here's my first draft of a list I could paint up to make use of this. Any thoughts/suggestions? I wouldn't normally bother with Epidemius but surely this is the list for him. Apart from potentially getting all his buffs on the table much faster and easier than usual, he won't be the main target for deepstrikes/sniping while that sorcerer is on the board.

Leaders:

Epidemius, Tallyman of Nurgle [200pts]

The Glottkin [420pts]: Blades of Putrefaction

Lord of Blights [140pts]

Sorcerer [120pts]: Muttergrub, Rancid Visitations

 

Units:

30 x Plaguebearers [320pts]

5 x Blight Kings [160pts]

5 x Blight Kings [160pts]

5 x Blight Kings [160pts]

 

Battalion: Blight Cyst [220pts]

Balewind Vortex [40pts]

Umbral Spellportal [60pts]

 

++ Total: [2000pts] ++

Edited by Dreadmund
Whoops, misclick/Formatting

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

Here's my first draft of a list I could paint up to make use of this. Any thoughts/suggestions?

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Nurgle) [2000pts] ++

 

+ Leader +

 

Epidemius, Tallyman of Nurgle [200pts]

 

The Glottkin [420pts]: 1. Blades of Putrefaction

 

+ Battleline +

 

Plaguebearers [320pts]: 3x 10 Plaguebearers, Icon Bearer, Piper

 

+ Battalion +

 

Battalion: Blight Cyst [220pts]

 

Lord of Blights

5 x Putrid Blightkings (160pts). Sorcerer: 2. Muttergrub, 2. Rancid Visitations

 

Balewind Vortex (40pts)

Umbral Spellportal (60pts)

Not bad! but the list comes in at 2320 ^_^

Is muttergrub necessary if baelwind gives you an extra cast? MUCH rather get witherstave and/or rustfang. Also.. Epidemius is trash IMO for 200 points. I would rather take a warshrine for 40 less points. Either undivided chaos for RR 1s to hit and wound OR dedicated to nurgle for RR all wounds. Plus a 9" bubble of 6++. Only one unit to buff but more utility, but tanky, decent damage profile (6 attacks at 4+/3+/-/2 damage each), bigger footprint. Also I think 40 maruaders at 200 is better then 30 plaguebois at 320. Especially with easy +1 to hit on the warscroll. Making blades proc on a 5+! And smaller base size so fight "in two ranks." 

I have a list I have been tweaking and morphing for several GT's coming up including the NOVA Open. Im fortunate enough to live 5 mins from the venue for NOVA. 

Glottkin - Blades of Putrefaction

Harbinger of Decay - General, Witherstave, Grandfather's Blessing

Gutrot Spume

10 Kings, 5, kings, 5 kings, 5 kings,

40 marauders

Chaos warshrine

Soul Snare Shackles 

1900/2000

+2 CP

Given the combination we discussed, I am going to toy with dropping the shackles and the +2 cp to add a sorcerer with Rancid Visitations. Then drop the warshrine to add the balewind and spell portals. That leaves me with 60 points which I will use to have +1 cp. So:

glott, harbinger, gutrot, sorcerer, 40 marauders, 25 kings, balewind, spell portals, +1 cp

 1990/2000

 

Also, A GUO (rather then Glott) with the bileblade makes this a sick combination even more potentially potent. +1 to cast. Can also shoot plague wind through the portals if optimal. Obviously can put both spells through the portal.. but if a nice line presents itself abusing the plague wind interaction with spell portals is also a nice option. 

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

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4 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Not bad! but the list comes in at 2320 ^_^

You quoted a version I posted by mistake halfway through. The edited version above is dead on 2k.

You make a decent point about the warshrine and I vastly prefer the model. Epidemius is my least favourite model in the nurgle range by a mile. Maybe my least favourite model in general. It's worth switching just for that. I'm keeping the Plaguebearers though, because I already have those and they're already painted lol. I'm holding off picking up any marauders until the Slaves to Darkness/Darkoath battletome comes out hopefully later this year. I suspect there will be some changes to warscrolls and maybe even some new models so I want to hold off on investing in them until I know it's a good investment to make.

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10 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

glott, harbinger, gutrot, sorcerer, 40 marauders, 25 kings, balewind, spell portals, +1 cp

 1990/2000

That seems like a really solid list. The Harbinger will make a great combo with the marauders and you can never have enough blight kings.

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@Dreadmund

Does blight cyst require 4 units of blightkings? I could be mistaken but I think it does. It’s hard to combine Glott and Blightcyst. I did for last years NOVA and came in 3rd overall, but I had a couple decent matchups, and got a lucky roll doing 10 damage to Nagash in game 5 from Glotts vomit shooting attack! So a bit of luck. 

Its funny because I don’t particularly like the epidemics model either. But I used him and a corpse cart to kitbash my own warshrine. Also I used poxwalkera from 40k death guard to make Nurgle maruaders. Just tossing out my own experiences with these models. It’s prudent of you to wait for a darkoath/everchosen/std book. Plaguebearers having 10 bravery and a natural 5++ is ability to regenerate via battleshock is GREAT. Especially since your list doesn’t include a harbinger. I think it will be a dope combo with Glott. 

PLEASE report back on your experience with Rancid/portals/vortex. Btw we need a nickname for this 😆

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

@Dreadmund

Does blight cyst require 4 units of blightkings? I could be mistaken but I think it does. It’s hard to combine Glott and Blightcyst. I did for last years NOVA and came in 3rd overall, but I had a couple decent matchups, and got a lucky roll doing 10 damage to Nagash in game 5 from Glotts vomit shooting attack! So a bit of luck. 

Its funny because I don’t particularly like the epidemics model either. But I used him and a corpse cart to kitbash my own warshrine. Also I used poxwalkera from 40k death guard to make Nurgle maruaders. Just tossing out my own experiences with these models. It’s prudent of you to wait for a darkoath/everchosen/std book. Plaguebearers having 10 bravery and a natural 5++ is ability to regenerate via battleshock is GREAT. Especially since your list doesn’t include a harbinger. I think it will be a dope combo with Glott. 

Nope, minimum 3, maximum 6. I actually really like your idea of replacing Glott with a GUO. Not least because Glott isn't painted yet and that's going to be quite a big project since that model is so wonderfully detailed. I'm going to have to tinker a bit more and come up with a list that I'm happy with.

Quote

PLEASE report back on your experience with Rancid/portals/vortex. Btw we need a nickname for this 😆

Oh yeah, all the best cheese needs a name for people to use when they demand a nerf in the next FAQ :D Rancid BS? (Balewind Spellportals)?

Edited by Dreadmund

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11 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Well if you put the RS on the 30.5" line from enemy deployment you can get an un-unbindable balewind cast off. Then it goes 1" in front (so 1 free inch essentially) and then the balewind is >4" so thats 5 inches extra total. Now your basically on the front of your line. You would still only be able to cross 18"/24" no mans land. but with the 9" range you would be able to reach into the enemies lines 3"

This would make only rancid visitations unbindable. 

Hm if you use the balewind base to  be nearer to enemy lines you would be again in unbinding range for your rancid spell? So without doing so, it's only the spell portal 18+base size +9 = ~ 29... 

So no chance to hit something without risking unbinding range. Or did I mess something up here? 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Zplash said:

Hm if you use the balewind base to  be nearer to enemy lines you would be again in unbinding range for your rancid spell? So without doing so, it's only the spell portal 18+base size +9 = ~ 29... 

So no chance to hit something without risking unbinding range. Or did I mess something up here? 

The rancid visitations would be the only one they could unbind..because the balewind is not unbindable if 30.5” away, then the portals are/can be outside unbind range. Then the rancid visitations could be.

Even if you don’t try to keep everything outside of 30.5”...just the opportunity to take a rotbringer sorcerer and turn him into Nurgle thanos would be worth it. 😆

perhaps a stormcast incantor with his infinity gauntlet in the air....properly nurglified is in order 😁

 

 

49E6EA25-37A2-4D5C-98AE-A30DDE055DFF.jpeg

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

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I have been reading this Vortex Visitations MW bomb, and it looks fun! And strong!

But now back to statistics (not my best subject, so i might be wrong) throwing 3 times with two dice where the eyes of the paired throws have to be minimal 5, 6, 6 is about 40%. (not counting the dispel change my opponent has on the rancid)

So you have a sorcerer a portal and balewind = 220 points. with a lot of potential MW! But is it worth it if my probality was calculated correctly with that 40 %.  It is bound to happen with 5 rounds, but it asks for some specific strategies...

 

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17 hours ago, Fluxlord said:

I have been reading this Vortex Visitations MW bomb, and it looks fun! And strong!

But now back to statistics (not my best subject, so i might be wrong) throwing 3 times with two dice where the eyes of the paired throws have to be minimal 5, 6, 6 is about 40%. (not counting the dispel change my opponent has on the rancid)

So you have a sorcerer a portal and balewind = 220 points. with a lot of potential MW! But is it worth it if my probality was calculated correctly with that 40 %.  It is bound to happen with 5 rounds, but it asks for some specific strategies...

 

Keep in mind the balewind/portal combination with his stream of corruption spell is also nice! 13” from the second portal and a unit takes 3 mortal wounds. Also nice as a foul regenisis caster. Place the balewind and him in terrain and he is 3+ save gaining wounds for every successful cast! If it’s arcane that’s just so so good!

so while the rancid BS is a nice trick against a big block of infantry.. it’s not is ONLY value. 

This might be our only way to deal with hearthguard beraerkers to. Unfortunately it still only kills 1/4 of the unit because of the 4++ and two wound models. But that’s still 180-200 points worth of berserkers!

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