AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Ciliegioinfiore]

Harbringer 

lord of blight 

15 putrids

blight cyst

?

[Dreadmund]

I have a friendly meet up in a couple of weeks with 5 other players for a round robin tournament. They will be bringing Stormcast, Seraphon, Nighthaunt, Beasts of Chaos and Sylvaneth. I'm going to be testing a couple of lists to help me decide what to take to my first tournament later this year (probably Blackout in August). Any thoughts on the below list would be welcome! The GUO and Horticulus will stroll around with 30 plaguebearers each to activate their locus and cap points with the GUO going where I think the more dangerous action is going to take place. Between the GUO's bell and Horty's extra tree moving around should be a little easier than usual. The Lord of Afflictions will fly around with his plague drone retinue, deploying the Witherstave debuff where it's most useful and being the hammer to the PB's anvil using their locus ability, the GUO's command ability and Festus' Blades of Putrefaction. The Cogs will be deployed next to Festus so he can attempt both Blades and Curse of the Leper each turn, and to give him some slight resilience. Of course if I need to get somewhere in a hurry, I can also use them to speed up my army, but I'd rather use them for spells. Ideally Festus will also be deployed next to another hero to keep them healthy. The shackles are just there to fill out the last 20 point but hopefully I can use them creatively to hinder the enemy. An alternative to this list is to drop the cogs and Festus to take 3 more Plague Drones instead.

Heroes
Great Unclean One with Bell and Bileblade (General, Grandfather's Blessing, Favoured Poxes) - 340
Horticulus Slimux - 220
Lord of Afflictions (Witherstave) - 220
Festus the Leechlord (Blades of Putrefaction) - 140

Battleline
30x Plaguebearers - 320
30x Plaguebearers - 320
5x Putrid Blightkings - 160

Other
3x Plague Drones - 200

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs - 60
Soulsnare Shackles - 20

Total 2000/2000

[Pellynor]

Your battle line is very solid, especially against the armies you seem to be facing. Word of caution, if the Beast of Chaos player has those bloody Enlighten Tzaangors on discs, isolate and kill them as quick as possible! They mauled through 6 drones of mine in one turn of combat and tabled the army by turn 3.  Nighthaunt and Stormcast is going to simply hate you with your -1 to hit for the plague bearers and the witherstaff making it even harder for them to land any sort of special damage dealing blows. Can't say I have any experience against the other two but I don't think they should pose too big of a problem to deal with.

My only concern in this army, and this usually applies to Nurgle in general, is the lack of punch. Sure you're going to weather a metric ton of attacks but you also need to deal damage as well.  I would consider dropping either Horticulus or the Lord of Affliction for some more drones, or trying to work in the scrivener to boast those massive blocks of infantry. You could drop the Lord of Afflictions and one of the endless spells for a Scrivener and a Lord of Blights. Laugh as your opponent tries to chew through two units of plague bearers that are at -2 to hit and re-rolling 6's to hit while you have the blades and re-roll 1's. It's a bit dirty for a friendly punch-up but something to consider.

[sal4m4nd3r]

@Dreadmund

Stick Hort right on the line, surrounded by drones. In the first hero phase drop the tree length wise to maximize the 7" bubble, as the tree is wider then it is deep. Also can place it to just a corner is within the 3" from Hort. Tree is about 5" long. So thats 8" out+7" bubble for the max distance. Now you get 4+2d3 points right off the bat. can REALLY ramp up summoning. focus on getting more drones.  With cogs, and run and charge, drones can probably get a turn one charge. I like this list a lot. 

 

[Zplash]

12 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

@Dreadmund

Stick Hort right on the line, surrounded by drones. In the first hero phase drop the tree length wise to maximize the 7" bubble, as the tree is wider then it is deep. Also can place it to just a corner is within the 3" from Hort. Tree is about 5" long. So thats 8" out+7" bubble for the max distance. Now you get 4+2d3 points right off the bat. can REALLY ramp up summoning. focus on getting more drones.  With cogs, and run and charge, drones can probably get a turn one charge. I like this list a lot. 

 

Dont you get the contagion points dir Horti tree starring with second battle round? The points are generated at the start of the hero phase if i remember correct.

[sal4m4nd3r]

11 minutes ago, Zplash said:

Dont you get the contagion points dir Horti tree starring with second battle round? The points are generated at the start of the hero phase if i remember correct.

 Hort’s ability to drop a tree “Cultivating the garden of Nurgle” happens AT THE START of the hero phase. And so does generating contagion points. So you can do them in either order. So drop horts’s tree first then generate contagion for max effect 

 

@Dreadmund I also like your list because Hort proc’s the drones locus, and can heal a damaged drone every turn. Also he is a damn tank! 8 wounds, 3+/5++ save. He isn’t a monster so can be 2+ in cover. Has some good rending attacks to!

Edited March 12, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[Zplash]

Never recognized that... ok now Horti makes a lot more sense!

Maybe you can help me ist with another question which we had at our gameclub last weekend:

Do summoned units capture objectives if you summon them on the objective? The question came up because one stated that the unit must end a move within the objective to capture it and summonig wasnt a "move" even if it happens in the movement phase.

Any ideas on that on? 

Thank you in Advance.

[sal4m4nd3r]

28 minutes ago, Zplash said:

Never recognized that... ok now Horti makes a lot more sense!

Maybe you can help me ist with another question which we had at our gameclub last weekend:

Do summoned units capture objectives if you summon them on the objective? The question came up because one stated that the unit must end a move within the objective to capture it and summonig wasnt a "move" even if it happens in the movement phase.

Any ideas on that on? 

Thank you in Advance.

I dont have the battletome in front of me. I would need the EXACT wording of the summoning mechanic to make a judgement call.  But I am going to assume there is language in there that equates summoning to movement. Also did the wording say "end a move" or simply "at the end of the movement phase"

[Zplash]

I hope summoned units are able to capture objectives... Because it would be a huge disadvantage to my current gameplan  haha

[sal4m4nd3r]

7 minutes ago, Zplash said:

I hope summoned units are able to capture objectives... Because it would be a huge disadvantage to my current gameplan  haha

Yeah just checked. Summoning is a "set-up" and not a move. Move would be a "normal move", "pile-in move", and a "charge move". But this restriction is only for the missions which specify a unit must end a move within x" of the objective to capture it which is only a couple.  Also, depending on when you score the objective a pile in and charge wouldnt score it either. (I.E if it says "end a normal move, or specifies scored at the end of the movement phase.)

 

Which mission was it? 

Edited March 12, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[Tasman]

40 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Yeah just checked. Summoning is a "set-up" and not a move. Move would be a "normal move", "pile-in move", and a "charge move". But this restriction is only for the missions which specify a unit must end a move within x" of the objective to capture it which is only a couple.  Also, depending on when you score the objective a pile in and charge wouldnt score it either. (I.E if it says "end a normal move, or specifies scored at the end of the movement phase.)

 

Which mission was it? 

I don't know.... all this seems rather fiddly. It says that a summoned unit, after being placed,  counts as having moved. They can still shoot, charge, etc. That's the way we've always played it. Now granted, I'm not part of the power gamer tournament circuit, but it seems reasonable to me that it counts as a move, as stated.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Tasman

[sal4m4nd3r]

11 minutes ago, Tasman said:

I don't know.... all this seems rather fiddly. It says that a summoned unit, after being placed,  counts as having moved. They can still shoot, charge, etc. That's the way we've always played it. Now granted, I'm not part of the power gamer tournament circuit, but it seems reasonable to me that it counts as a move, as stated.

I take umbrage with your wording. This isnt "part of the power gamer tournament circuit"... its the rules of the game. And attempting to follow them so the game flows and plays as designed. powergaming is modelling for advantage, slow playing, being pushy with your opponent trying to rush them, constantly asking if they are finished, things like that. Things that are not against the rules, but used to gain an advantage. Building a list with bare minimum battleline and max behemoths, finding combos within the rules, and unique interactions between warscrolls.. IS NOT power gaming. Its playing the game with the rules we are given. 

Dont take my comment as disrespect or me being upset with you. Just want to state, playing the game to the letter of the rules is NOT power gaming. 

If the "counts as having moved" language is there, then yes it counts as having moved and would in fact score an objective that states you need to end a move within x inches to score it. Again I dont have the tome in front of me or a digital version so cannot say 100% certainty. 

@Zplash

[sal4m4nd3r]

It says nothing about movement. Only set-up. Therefore if a mission requires you to finish a move next to an objective summoning onto it would not count. 

[stus67]

I don't play nurgle, but I have a friend that's trying out lists that consists of mostly if not all blightkings. Can anybody give any advice that I can pass on?

[sal4m4nd3r]

Well, @stus67, as it so happens, I came to post a list and ask for anyone to give it a look see and give me any thoughts. I'm moving on from blight cyst, for the time being. trimming the fat (heh) and trying to go more boots on the ground. I feel Nurgle is getting more and more left behind with these new books coming out. I look at our tome and cant help but feel GW rules team was skiddish around making summoning WAY TO POWERFUL. Remember our book was the first 2nd edition book to drop, and "free summoning" was a huge concern for the community. The doom and gloom of summoning armies overrunning the scene were proven to be nothing more then a fleeting worry. Yet now we have a MEH rules set compared to the newer books being released. 

So here is my new competitive list for a couple RTT events coming up. Will mold and shape as I go.

The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction
Gutrot Spume (140)
Verminlord Corruptor (260)
- General
- Trait: Pestilent Breath 
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
 

10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
 

40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 197
 

The Glottkin in the list is NOT going to be removed. I spent a LOT of time converting him up to a high standard and will be including him in my army no matter what.  With 30 blightkings, 10 of whom will be outflanking, (or 5 based on mission and opponent) that's a a beefy core. The marauders are chaff, yes but can become a brick of a unit with glottkins spell to double their wounds characteristic. And with an easy +1 to hit and Glottkin doubling their attacks  they CAN become a straight up mortal wound factory. 81 attacks, mortals on 5's is like 26 mortal wounds.  And thats before the free Rerolling 1s to hit buff they get. 

I know, I know! No Harbinger??!! He makes me want to stay tight and that has become a disadvantage. I am so worried about staying in that small 7" bubble I tend to make other mistakes or find myself out of position. I included a Verminlord corrupter. His new warscroll is SO FREAKING GOOD! a few points on him:

-10 attacks that can be re-rolled with his command ability - naturally cause mortal wound on 6s to hit. 

-natural 5+ "feel no pain" - Can also be given the endless gift LOL but I am going to try the....

-With the sword of judgment, he will be doing d6+1 mortal wounds on 6's to hit to heros and monsters. LOL

-His unique spell targets a unit at 13" range and does a MW on 4+ to every model in the unit. what?

-doubling down on that with pestilent breathe command trait in close range. 

-He can cast two spells AND unbind two spells. Gave him glorious afflictions to synergize with the soulsnare shackles. 

-He is fast at 12" plus out movement buffs.

 

My other list option is to take out the Verminlord Corrupter, add in the harbinger, make him the general with the witherstave and grandfathers gift, and cogs and 1 extra CP. With cogs, gutrot and ten kings will be coming on from the edge, 9" from enemy units with +3 to charge DOPE! I want to try something fresh though. Let me know your thoughts brothers of nurgle!

[Zplash]

I agree with your Statement about nurgle overall. Its still a pretty good army to play with Friends or in some Shops. For tournaments on the other hand it looks pretty scary with every new release it feels like nurgle drops.

Currently competetive there are kind of 2 options. Go BK heavy or magic heavy with thricefold. BK are currently countered hard to more and more minus hit tools in the armys. And Magic heavy ... I mean look at those death lists up there... Too many armys with a stronger Magic game and you have to remember even without unbinds our spells are mostly at a 7 which isnt easy to get alone

im currently playing my thricefold list because I was gifted with 2 more GUO Sets and Yeah cant see them sitting on my shelf

[Kramer]

Hi all, 

Grandfather nurgle finally has set his rot in. Couple of months ago I got a cold.. ehh nah, I got a gift . A  box of nurglings. Now I'm not going full army (I think, my wallet hopes). But I do love the look of the Blight Kings so i'm getting a box of them to make a Skirmish warband out of them! 
Also most likely I will get the Easy to Built Poxwalkers to have some cheaper additions as converted Marauders.

So the question I would love some input on. Haven't played any Nurgle ever, and will most likely get them all in the end: What would you choose as the Hero: Gutrot Spume, Lord of Plagues or Lord of Blights. I have the feeling they all will be fun to play in a different manner and like the look of all.

(Gutrot spume on looks a bit more than the rest if you push me/Lord of Blights I will most likely convert a bit because the pose of the head looks a bit off to me)

[sal4m4nd3r]

Lord of blights sucks competitively unless your going blight cyst. Lord of plagues could also be the lord of MEH because he is OK. RR 1s is nice. and CAN do some decent damage. Gutrot has the best utility as he makes a unit of kings outflank. Can also neuter a hero in combat. He does not have a comman ability, unlike the other two, and cannot take a command trait or artefact as he is a nmed character. unlike the other two. So while gutrot has the best utility, the lord of plagues will be the best all around hero. Avoid the lord of blights, IMO, unless running blight cyst as he is required.

[Dreadmund]

I've had bad experiences with Gutrot because although he can be useful, he's also incredibly easy to counter against an opponent who understands his warscroll. I've had games where the opponent made sure to place units during set up in such a way that I couldn't put gutrot on the board in any place where he'd be well utilised. Also with just a little bit of intelligent unit placement, you can make it so that he can't attack anyone at all because a hero is within 3", but not in range of any of Gutrot's attacks. Infuriating! I think both LoB and LoP are more dependable personally. If you can give LoP any kind of plus to hit he is awesome, because it allows his blighted weapon to explode more often. I would probably go with him.

That said, if you like Gutrot's look the most, go for him! Sounds like this is mostly for small friendly games so just play what inspires you. When his warscroll does work, it's brilliant. Watch you opponent look on in horror as his heavy hitting hero can't use his weapon at all.

[sal4m4nd3r]

If they are making deployment decisions based on gutrot and his bois.. you have already gained the upper hand.  I take gutrot for the outflank, not for his attacks. He could have no melee profile for all I care. His job is to simply be able to put a unit of kings anywhere on the edge, negating their glacial speed. 

He also has the added benefit of guaranteeing 3 contagion points on the second turn. 

[stus67]

Anybody running a chaos warshrine with their blightkings?

[sal4m4nd3r]

10 hours ago, stus67 said:

Anybody running a chaos warshrine with their blightkings?

My list last year had one. I ran glotkin, 20 kings, gutrot, harbinger, 20 maruaders and a warshrine. Its really good. The 6+ save is nice, the rr wounds is dope on kings. I used mine aggrevely. Ran it right on the front line, charging into anything. It has a big footprint, adds to target saturation, is reasonably tough (12 wounds 4+/5++/6++) and can even put out some damage with 6 damage 2 attacks! I see people having it behind the lines and I think they are missing out on having a large imposing model in the scrum. If it dies its no big deal, but taking hits away from my kings and other units was very valuable. 

I ran it several times as just chaos. No nurgle tag. I like the RR 1s to hit and wound on kings better then RR all wounds. At that point though it becomes an ally, and itself cant benefit from NURGLE buffs (no harbinger save, not affected by the wheel, etc) but it was worth it!

[Dreadmund]

2 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

My list last year had one. I ran glotkin, 20 kings, gutrot, harbinger, 20 maruaders and a warshrine. Its really good. The 6+ save is nice, the rr wounds is dope on kings. I used mine aggrevely. Ran it right on the front line, charging into anything. It has a big footprint, adds to target saturation, is reasonably tough (12 wounds 4+/5++/6++) and can even put out some damage with 6 damage 2 attacks! I see people having it behind the lines and I think they are missing out on having a large imposing model in the scrum. If it dies its no big deal, but taking hits away from my kings and other units was very valuable. 

I ran it several times as just chaos. No nurgle tag. I like the RR 1s to hit and wound on kings better then RR all wounds. At that point though it becomes an ally, and itself cant benefit from NURGLE buffs (no harbinger save, not affected by the wheel, etc) but it was worth it!

When my Daemon list is fully painted I will be putting a mortal list together and the Warshrine could be a cool addition. I do like the model a lot. Thanks for the insight!

[swarmofseals]

Just want to make sure that I'm not missing anything -- it's not possible to get any bonuses to casting for any of the rotbringer wizards, is it? Aside from arcane terrain, of course.

[sal4m4nd3r]

8 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Just want to make sure that I'm not missing anything -- it's not possible to get any bonuses to casting for any of the rotbringer wizards, is it? Aside from arcane terrain, of course.

Correct.  If I want atleast one turn with no unbinds possible, deploy the wizard 6.5" behind your front line so you are 30.5" out of the enemies deployment zone. This is of course assuming a mission with 24" apart. Some are 18" apart starting. 

 

5 hours ago, Dreadmund said:

When my Daemon list is fully painted I will be putting a mortal list together and the Warshrine could be a cool addition. I do like the model a lot. Thanks for the insight!

I made my own from a corpse cart and epidemius, with trees and mushrooms growing from the bodies to match the rest of my army.

https://imgur.com/a/1sv1a0C