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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

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With the new Verminlords all having a 4+ armor save with a 5+ save after the save and 2 spells for about 260 points do you guys foresee a substantial price drop for GUOs in the new GHB? I was hoping for a small one, mostly because of the sword, but looking at these I'm think as low as 280 is possible.

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Ladies and gents, would like some advice, havnt played in a while and not 100% sure on my list. Mainly after advice on the item to give the Lord of blights, I don't have much experience with malign sorcery so any advice appriciated.

 

Is the battalion worth it or should I drop for a unit of plague drones?

Hoping to balewind festus' spell for the extra 6" and gets blades off as well. Could potentially drop this endless spell for an extra CP?

 

Hulking physique is to make the GUO a bit harder hitting in combat as he always ends up in CC.

I know plague bearers aren't the most efficient unit but they are what I have to hand :)

Thanks in advance.

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Bile Blade & Doomsday Bell
- Trait: Hulking Physique 
- Artefact: Tome of a Thousand Poxes 
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
Gutrot Spume (140)
Lord of Blights (140)
Festus the Leechlord (140)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)

Battalions
Blight Cyst (220)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 146
 

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47 minutes ago, ReAnimate Studios said:

Is the battalion worth it or should I drop for a unit of plague drones?

Hoping to balewind festus' spell for the extra 6" and gets blades off as well. Could potentially drop this endless spell for an extra CP?

Hulking physique is to make the GUO a bit harder hitting in combat as he always ends up in CC.

I know plague bearers aren't the most efficient unit but they are what I have to hand :)

Blight cyst is one of our better battalions, I say go for it. Blight kings are swingy, but when they hit good it's the best feeling. They exert a lot of pressure.

Have you considered chronomatic cogs instead of the balewind? Has similar applications for spellcasting, but it also has the versatility to make up for your blightkings worst attribute: glacial movement speed. Even with tactical tree placement, it can often be a pain to get your units where they are most needed in time to be effective. If you're worried about the prohibitive cost of buying the malign sorcery set, it's one the easier ones to make yourself with some green stuff a handful of steampunk decorative cogs bought off ebay for cheap.

I don't rate hulking physique on a Bell/Dagger GUO. That build of GUO excels most at supporting your army, not putting out the damage himself and his damage profiles aren't that great anyway so you will probably only get a few extra wounds out of him if you actively charge him into combat at every opportunity. I really recommend Grandfather's blessing. It may seem underwhelming at first but wheel shenanigans can turn a mediocre/bad turn into your best turn of the game. A great trick is to put the wheel on step 6 Rampant disease using the Foul Regenesis spell. This does damage to the enemy army and in the following round you get the army-wide heal from Corrupted Regrowth. Then you can immediately use Grandfather's blessing to move the wheel back and do the Rampant disease damage again. Then next round, your whole army gets healed a second time. For an army that is already as hard to put down as ours is, the combination of damage and heals can swing some key battles in your favour with only average luck on the rolls.

Also, there's nothing wrong with plaguebearers in my opinion! They don't kick out high damage like a block of marauders can, but when it comes to holding an objective they're brilliant. I've had several games where a blob of plaguebearers has persuaded my opponent to just give up on contending an objective altogether because of how much of a hassle it is to get rid of them.

Edited by Dreadmund
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17 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

Blight cyst is one of our better battalions, I say go for it. Blight kings are swingy, but when they hit good it's the best feeling. They exert a lot of pressure.

....

Also, there's nothing wrong with plaguebearers in my opinion! They don't kick out high damage like a block of marauders can, but when it comes to holding an objective they're brilliant. I've had several games where a blob of plaguebearers has persuaded my opponent to just give up on contending an objective altogether because of how much of a hassle it is to get rid of them.

Agreed RE plaguebearers- they're a great battleline unit. They're not damage dealers, but they're very resilient. Blight Cyst and blightkings are great unless you're going against any to hit defbuffs, in which case they're not really worth their points. And considering the meta having so many minus to hit stuff, i usually don't do blight cyst and go for drones instead. Playing someone without minus to hits though, BC+BK are great. 

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28 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

A great trick is to put the wheel on step 6 Rampant disease using the Foul Regenesis spell. This does damage to the enemy army and in the following round you get the army-wide heal from Corrupted Regrowth. Then you can immediately use Grandfather's blessing to move the wheel back and do the Rampant disease damage again. Then next round, your whole army gets healed a second time.

Sorry I think I have to correct one of your advices:

You cant Deal dmg on wheel stage 6 if you put it there with your spell because it says "at the beginning of your hero phase" which is before you do your casts. On the other hand you can use grandfathers blessing at stage 7. So get the heal then grandfathers blessing and then do the dmg. This works because it is all described as "at the beginning of your hero phase".

Usually you turn the wheel to stage 5, benefit from reroll wound 6s for your enemy and next turn u can dish out d3 dmg to d3 units.

Hope the explanation helps.

Edited by Zplash
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1 minute ago, Zplash said:

Sorry I think I have to correct one of your advices:

You cant Deal dmg on wheel stage 6 kg you put it there with your spell because it says "at the beginning of your hero phase" which is before you do your Castings. On the other hand you can use grandfathers blessing at stage 7. So get the heal then grandfathers blessing and then do the dmg. This works because it is all described as "at the beginning of your hero phase".

Usually you turn the wheel to stage 5 benefit from reroll wound 6s for your enemy and next turn u can dish out d3 dmg to d3 units.

Hope the explanation helps.

Ah yes, I had forgotten that you're right to call it out. What you could do is use foul regenesis to set up this trick on wheel stage 5 and let it ride over to stage 6. Then you have the flexibility to wither get a damage/heal combo next turn or save it to do that combo the turn after depending on the circumstance.

Basically the ability to manipulate the wheel is excellent and always serves me well when I use it.

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50 minutes ago, ReAnimate Studios said:

What about additional artefacts any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thanks for the advice though :)

I would probably go for the rustfang to soften enemy units up for your blightkings who have no rend. The debuff persists all game, even if your lord of blights dies which is great. I also love the fecund flask for fluff and for the chance to summon a random beast of nurgle which is funny, but perhaps not the best play tactically haha. Does your army have a realm of origin or do you keep it flexible?

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1 hour ago, ReAnimate Studios said:

What about additional artefacts any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thanks for the advice though :)

I would also recommend rustfang or maybe the one with minus 2 bravery in a 12 bubble around you.

Thinking about a Combo with the new plagueclaw rules which do -1 bravery just targeting a Unit 😃 a nice bravery bomb and on top you can add the Generals ability with -2 bravery in a 3 bubble.

Adds up to -5 bravery... 

Dont know if it really work out to invest Everything in that direction :(

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1 hour ago, Dreadmund said:

I would probably go for the rustfang to soften enemy units up for your blightkings who have no rend. The debuff persists all game, even if your lord of blights dies which is great. I also love the fecund flask for fluff and for the chance to summon a random beast of nurgle which is funny, but perhaps not the best play tactically haha. Does your army have a realm of origin or do you keep it flexible?

Yea I keep the realm flexible as papa nurgle will spread his gifts where ever he chooses :)

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Hey Everyone

A friend of mine has stopped playing AoS for 40k and I'm trying to get him back into it, but he's a stubborn ******. The new Maggotkin SC box has got him interested, so as he's not really on AoS forums and stuff, I thought I'd ask on his behalf some questions that he has, as my own knowledge on Nurgle is really limited. He isn't too keen on doing an army with lots of demons and wants to focus more on the 'human' side of Maggotkin. So the questions are....

1) Is the new SC set worth it?

2) How are Nurgle doing at the moment in the general overall meta?

3) Can you make a semi-competitive army without lots of demons?

4) Can you make a semi-competitive army with a variety of units or are there only a handful of decent choices?

5) If someone was starting out a Maggotkin army, apart from 1 x SC box, what other 'must haves' would you suggest adding?

Sorry for the many questions and thanks in advance for the help.

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From my personal experience in my local meta.

1.) Sorta. Pusgoyle Blightlords are just not good for their points cost. Granted if they get a points reduction in the GHB 2019 they could see a comeback. I'd still say pick up one SC because you can build the Lord of Afflictions from the Pusgoyle kit and Blightkings are ace. Lord of Blights is so-so but is required for the Blight Cyst battalion and his command ability is nice with Plaguebears.

2.) In my experience Nurgle is in a fairly poor state. You can still win games but you'll suffer from a horrendous match up with Legions of Nagash which is very popular. A lot of the armies in my meta rely on combos that if you can't shut down you just lose. Nurgle mostly lacks the ability to really reach out and hit your opponent hard. There are ways around this (Nurgle is a very broad allegiance with a lot of different units) but in short you will struggle.

3.) Without demons period? Maybe? With just a Bell/dagger GUO and 30 plaguebears? Yes. The best unit by far in our Battletome are the Blightkings. While -1hit will hit a blightking army pretty hard you'll still get a lot of wounds for their points and with blight cyst they can still hit hard enough. The GUO is much needed support and Plaguebears provide the bodies for objective holding that Blightkings lack.

4.) There's a couple of okay builds depending on if you're okay bringing in Slaves to Darkness and Clan Pestilins units. Using the units from the Battletome itself you will be limited to Thricefold Befoulment, Blight Cyst, and a few variants of lists built around one or two blocks of 30 plaguebearers and the Lord of Blights.

5.) A GUO with Bell/Dagger, 30 Plaguebearers, and at least 5 more blightkings. Horticulus can really improve your summoning game too.

In short, Nurgle is fine if you like the look and feel of the army and just want to have some fun games. The definition of what is "competitive" can vary a lot between people. If you're wanting to win Grand Tournaments I'd recommend against Nurgle. It can happen but it will be a pretty up hill battle.

Some observations about Nurgle

Blightkings are swingy but can hit like a ton of bricks. However, -1 to hit really shuts down their offensive power and is widely available to armies now. Even then they don't actually suck since you get so many wounds for their points. Just have a back up hammer in your army list.

Plaguebearers by themselves are decent but probably overcosted. With the Lord of Blights command ability on a unit of 30 they are amazingly tanky (with -2 to hit in melee) but will crumple quickly once they drop below 20.

Plague Drones can be a good hammer but require a lot of moving parts to be good. As a rule of thumb with just their base attacks they suck, with +1 attack they are good, and with +2 attacks they are amazing. Just be careful of things with 3+ saves or better.

Nurgle spells are really good but you will struggle to get them off. Blades of Purification is one of our best damage buffs but requires a 7 to go off and is a rotbringer spell. Our rotbringer wizards have no access to +casts outside of Arcane Terrain. In my experience you will almost never successfully cast it when you really need it and if you do it will be unbound by Nagash with his +3 unbind or autounbound by a Knight-Incantor or otherwise blocked by any one of the numerous armies with far better spellcasting then Nurgle has. Tome of a Thousand Poxes on a dagger GUO will give +2 to cast lore of Nurgle spells though which is immensely helpful and Plague Wind can really hurt, especially if cast in a Thricefold Befoulment.  

The Glottkin are pretty good and can provide some nice hitting power which Nurgle tends to struggle with. Just bring a Harbinger of Decay with them for a +5 save after the save as the Glottkin are amazingly squishy for an 18 wound model without him.

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2 hours ago, Forrix said:

From my personal experience in my local meta.

1.) Sorta. Pusgoyle Blightlords are just not good for their points cost. Granted if they get a points reduction in the GHB 2019 they could see a comeback. I'd still say pick up one SC because you can build the Lord of Afflictions from the Pusgoyle kit and Blightkings are ace. Lord of Blights is so-so but is required for the Blight Cyst battalion and his command ability is nice with Plaguebears.

2.) In my experience Nurgle is in a fairly poor state. You can still win games but you'll suffer from a horrendous match up with Legions of Nagash which is very popular. A lot of the armies in my meta rely on combos that if you can't shut down you just lose. Nurgle mostly lacks the ability to really reach out and hit your opponent hard. There are ways around this (Nurgle is a very broad allegiance with a lot of different units) but in short you will struggle.

3.) Without demons period? Maybe? With just a Bell/dagger GUO and 30 plaguebears? Yes. The best unit by far in our Battletome are the Blightkings. While -1hit will hit a blightking army pretty hard you'll still get a lot of wounds for their points and with blight cyst they can still hit hard enough. The GUO is much needed support and Plaguebears provide the bodies for objective holding that Blightkings lack.

4.) There's a couple of okay builds depending on if you're okay bringing in Slaves to Darkness and Clan Pestilins units. Using the units from the Battletome itself you will be limited to Thricefold Befoulment, Blight Cyst, and a few variants of lists built around one or two blocks of 30 plaguebearers and the Lord of Blights.

5.) A GUO with Bell/Dagger, 30 Plaguebearers, and at least 5 more blightkings. Horticulus can really improve your summoning game too.

In short, Nurgle is fine if you like the look and feel of the army and just want to have some fun games. The definition of what is "competitive" can vary a lot between people. If you're wanting to win Grand Tournaments I'd recommend against Nurgle. It can happen but it will be a pretty up hill battle.

Some observations about Nurgle

Blightkings are swingy but can hit like a ton of bricks. However, -1 to hit really shuts down their offensive power and is widely available to armies now. Even then they don't actually suck since you get so many wounds for their points. Just have a back up hammer in your army list.

Plaguebearers by themselves are decent but probably overcosted. With the Lord of Blights command ability on a unit of 30 they are amazingly tanky (with -2 to hit in melee) but will crumple quickly once they drop below 20.

Plague Drones can be a good hammer but require a lot of moving parts to be good. As a rule of thumb with just their base attacks they suck, with +1 attack they are good, and with +2 attacks they are amazing. Just be careful of things with 3+ saves or better.

Nurgle spells are really good but you will struggle to get them off. Blades of Purification is one of our best damage buffs but requires a 7 to go off and is a rotbringer spell. Our rotbringer wizards have no access to +casts outside of Arcane Terrain. In my experience you will almost never successfully cast it when you really need it and if you do it will be unbound by Nagash with his +3 unbind or autounbound by a Knight-Incantor or otherwise blocked by any one of the numerous armies with far better spellcasting then Nurgle has. Tome of a Thousand Poxes on a dagger GUO will give +2 to cast lore of Nurgle spells though which is immensely helpful and Plague Wind can really hurt, especially if cast in a Thricefold Befoulment.  

The Glottkin are pretty good and can provide some nice hitting power which Nurgle tends to struggle with. Just bring a Harbinger of Decay with them for a +5 save after the save as the Glottkin are amazingly squishy for an 18 wound model without him.

Briljant description of the current state of a Nurgle army!

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Since i also have the feelin that Nurgle is somewhat between the high tier and medium armies in the current competetive army, it was time to have some fun even at a competetive tournament i plan to attend. 

In a competetive scene it is not unheard of to battle against very aggressive armies (and players lol) . And a lot of people bring lists that will table a fluffy army in one or two turns. For me on the other hand, i find it fun to  try stuff out. So my latest fun army, which im gonna bring to a competetive scene is centered around Orgoths Daemonspew, yes you read it right the least used of the Maggothlord even in a fluffy army. Why bring orgoth if you could bring the glottkin you ask? Well if you bring glotkin your opponent wants him dead and if you have some bad luck you will loose him very fast and 25% of your army is gone, if you also run a cyst this means that only 65% models are on the table by approximation. I dont want that, so i thought i get orgoth, nobody uses him and my opponent doesnt know him and maybe doesnt pay that much attention as he woukd have on a glottkin....and that’s a good thing. (Also i always have bad luck with Nurgle spells so if i dont have the 2 glottspells, no problemo too) and maybe we underestimate orgoth too, cause if my opponent targets him a 3+ save with a 5+ Morbid vigor for harbinger is great! Besides, his command ability re-roll wound rolls of 1 is kinda cool if the wheel of contagion is on fecund vigor +1 to wound, which means blightkings wound on 2+ and re-roll essentially all failed wounds now. So i need orgoth, harbinger and blightkings. Nice! Now i want more hits, rend is oke but playin against dead/ghosts meh. So i want to re-roll my to hits too, lets get a lord of plagues, and if i add a plague cyst i can re-roll all failed wound rolls. Very nice, so at during fecund vigor i can re-roll all to hit and to wound rolls for my blightkings!! I i gave my general grandfathers blessing i can even have two times in a row! Wow! But indeed the kings have no rend and it might be interesting against stormcasts another army you meet a lot, so lets bring festus for his -1 to save on an enemy unit and let lord of plague have rustfang -1 to save. With some luck the pesky 2+ saves become 4+ saves...hehehe, 

maybe attack your opponent in the back, always a good plan, so Gutrot to the rescue!

Now i have 5 heroes and a battalion ....you know jow much blightking units i can bring for 2000 points? The answer is six, six units of blightkings and the units  of my opponent against a unit of pbk who are under the influence of orgotths command ability in the vicinity of lord of plagues during fecund vigor and that enemy unit has -2 on their saves...are in a world of pain! 

My goal for the tournament is not to win, but at least had the opportunity to at least have above scenario two times during the five battles i have to play! Wish me luck!

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So, what is considered the most "competitive" Nurgle army?  

I mostly play a blight cyst as the core of my army.  Lately I've been using chaos knights as well.  I don't play highly competitively, but I'm going to a GT later this year and might want to move my army building/painting in a more competitive direction. 

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8 minutes ago, Centurio said:

So, what is considered the most "competitive" Nurgle army?  

I mostly play a blight cyst as the core of my army.  Lately I've been using chaos knights as well.  I don't play highly competitively, but I'm going to a GT later this year and might want to move my army building/painting in a more competitive direction. 

I have been lookin at results for Maggotkin in recent tournaments, cancon and las vegas, i think, if you dont consider the player skills, the thricefold befoument is one of the top tier Maggotkin lists. Lots of magic manipulaing the wheel, endless spell amd  the very nice plaguestorm and with two times 30 PB for objectives and some other battleline to fill il the slot.

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11 minutes ago, Centurio said:

So, what is considered the most "competitive" Nurgle army?  

I mostly play a blight cyst as the core of my army.  Lately I've been using chaos knights as well.  I don't play highly competitively, but I'm going to a GT later this year and might want to move my army building/painting in a more competitive direction. 

From what I can tell from tournament results and ranking I think Thricefold Befoulment is the most competitive build. I want to say its won one or two GTs with lists similar to:

GUO w/ Bell Dagger-Tome of a Thousand Poxes

GUO w/ Sword and Flail-Gyrstrike or Endless Gift

Rotigus

30 Plaguebearers

30 Plaguebearers

5 Blightkings

Thricefold Befoulment

Umbral Spellportal

The Thricefold Befoulment helps boost the melee damage of Rotigus and The Sword and Flail GUOs while giving you a powerful and reliable spell. Via Spellportals you can really line up some brutal plaguewinds and most importantly you can get at your opponents' backline. Meanwhile the Plaguebearer bricks provide screening and objective scorers.

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That sounds good but I don't know if I want to go so far from my current army.  I'm not really expecting to win the tournament but I'd like to not be trounced.  

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Any thoughts on epidemus and Combo him with 2 plagueclaws? Rerolling 1s to hit and 1s to wound can make those catapults really shine. 

Or do I miss something here? 

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2 hours ago, Zplash said:

Any thoughts on epidemus and Combo him with 2 plagueclaws? Rerolling 1s to hit and 1s to wound can make those catapults really shine. 

Or do I miss something here? 

A 200pt 7 wound character that everyone will gun for. You really need to hide him well.

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I just painted those guys for 15 days

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Edited by Revan123
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5 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

A 200pt 7 wound character that everyone will gun for. You really need to hide him well.

For sure. But with look out sir. 5+ after save and with not that many shooting + deepdive combined armees I think you could handle it. And dont forget if they do Everything to kill epidemus you dont get the shots into your other Hammer units like monks, BKs or plagueclaws. Festus is another Option to help the survive ability of epidemus :)

i think I will Proxy a epidemus and will try it for some games within my local group. I'll share my experiences.

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On 2/19/2019 at 9:40 AM, Forrix said:

With the new Verminlords all having a 4+ armor save with a 5+ save after the save and 2 spells for about 260 points do you guys foresee a substantial price drop for GUOs in the new GHB? I was hoping for a small one, mostly because of the sword, but looking at these I'm think as low as 280 is possible.

Either that OR, more likely, the price of VLs will go up once it becomes apparent just how OP they are.... Points adjustments are inevitable. Maybe a nic 'move toward the middle'. As, I think, VLs will increase by approx 20-40 pts, maybe the GUOs could come down 20?

Edited by Tasman

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Have a question that I hope is relevant.

 

Assume the following:

- 300 points left over from a 2000 point army

- only 2 battleline choices so far

- no battalions

- no glottkin 

 

What's the best battleline choice for the leftover points? 30 plaguebearera doesn't fit and there's no fleshy abundance or attack buff for marauders.

So, more blightkings? 15 warriors as a screen? Units of 10 plaguebearers for a screen (there is a GUO for the bell so locus is available)

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1 hour ago, riddlesworth said:

Have a question that I hope is relevant.

 

Assume the following:

- 300 points left over from a 2000 point army

- only 2 battleline choices so far

- no battalions

- no glottkin 

 

What's the best battleline choice for the leftover points? 30 plaguebearera doesn't fit and there's no fleshy abundance or attack buff for marauders.

So, more blightkings? 15 warriors as a screen? Units of 10 plaguebearers for a screen (there is a GUO for the bell so locus is available)

What about maraurders, will give you an extra 2 CP as well

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