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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

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On 8/25/2018 at 8:44 PM, sal4m4nd3r said:

I would trade the sorc, plague priest and vernin lord corruptor for the glottkin. 

 

On 8/25/2018 at 6:10 PM, Domowoj said:

Looks good!

I think you are going to be disappointed by the Verminlord and Plague Priest in this list. The VLC looks great on paper but if your opponent knows that he's got a Sword of Judgment, then the VLC is going to be focus-killed quick. And the priest is awesome in a Pestilence list, but merely alright in Maggotkin. I think your 300 points are better spent on more Rotbringer units that will have the benefit of being part of The Blessed Sons (and giving you the option to deploy your army in a single drop). Maybe drop the vanilla sorcerer and stick The Glottkin in there (Fleshy Abundance will make those marauders shine). Not that you shouldn't buy/build/paint a VLC, etc also for more options... ;)

 

Thanks for the advice. I'd certainly like the glottkin....think I( was seduced by 10 attacks on virminlord. I'll have a think.

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2 hours ago, Dew said:

Maybe that's why I like the model, I love Doom lol.

Totally agree though, it doesnt fit AoS at all and kind of puts a cramp on my fluffy style.

Honestly it was even worse in WFB where the most advanced piece of technology was a half wooded tank running on steam (and whatever hellmachines the chaos dwarfs invented)! At least the Kharadron Overlords are a little more techy. Heck FW's own nurgle styled soul grinder, the Plague Hulk, isn't available in AoS.

I think the main reason for its inclusion is that all other Chaos Daemons (at least GW ones) are Fantasy compatible, so they probably didn't want the one odd one out.

 

Though to be a tad fair there were a few times in Fantasy where 40k crossed over. One of the most interesting times was a fluff book all about Chaos where there were some interesting items such as a "teethed" sword that seemingly eats their enemies (yes it was indeed a 40k chainsword, there was even a picture of it). And the author of the book (the in universe author) had dreams of the daemon primarchs and their chaos marine legions.

Edited by kenshin620

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8 hours ago, sorokyl said:


For drone heavy list, Lord of Afflictions makes a great hero, he counts as a Daemon so can keep up with them to buff them. You can also convert one with a blightking and a plague drone, just have to chop the legs up some and maybe make him a greenstuff saddle=)

 

I like the idea of this. I'm new to AoS and Maggotkin so am a little unsure; is one able to field 5x Plague Drones or do you need to take the compulsory 6x? If its possible to take 5x drones and convert the remaining one into a Lord of Affliction, will this be a viable unit that can survive being isolated from the rest of the army?

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3 minutes ago, Imperi-um said:

I like the idea of this. I'm new to AoS and Maggotkin so am a little unsure; is one able to field 5x Plague Drones or do you need to take the compulsory 6x? If its possible to take 5x drones and convert the remaining one into a Lord of Affliction, will this be a viable unit that can survive being isolated from the rest of the army?

Drones come in multiples of three.

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18 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Drones come in multiples of three.

Right, thank you for the reply Tasman.
I'm coming from 40k so am still getting grips on AoS ?

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48 minutes ago, Imperi-um said:

I like the idea of this. I'm new to AoS and Maggotkin so am a little unsure; is one able to field 5x Plague Drones or do you need to take the compulsory 6x? If its possible to take 5x drones and convert the remaining one into a Lord of Affliction, will this be a viable unit that can survive being isolated from the rest of the army?

Technically I believe you can run understrengthed units, people did it all the time to match the holy numbers for the Everchosen Battalions like 14 chaos warriors.

 

So if you paid the points for 6 plague drones, you can run them as 4 or 5 if you really wanted to. But if you took 7, you'll have to pay for 9 drones.

Edited by kenshin620

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Kenshin is right. You can field units with as many models as you have as per "Unit Size" paragraph on pg13 of core rules. In matched play, you have to pay for the rounded-up multiple of unit size; in this case, you would have to pay for 6 drones if you field a unit of 4, 5, or 6 drones. You cannot include under-strength units in battalions (pg15 core rules).

So you CAN just play 5 drones in a unit, legally, but...you are throwing 66.67 points out the window.

 

EDIT: And yes, a unit of 6 drones is very tanky and killy and fast/mobile. LoA is a good Daemon Hero to tag along, but I think Horticulous Slimux is comparable/better at the same amount of points. And a Verminlord Corruptor is the same amount of points as well. Chaos Lord of Daemonic Mount, Harbinger of Decay, and Daemon Prince are all cheaper while still fast enough to keep up. And a GUO with a Bell has always been the best choice in my book (always been fast enough to keep up in my experience) and provides the best support and people are often intimidated at the thought of trying to kill it. Give it Pestilent Breath and Endless Gift and it can wade through hordes of infantry alongside your flies.

Edited by Domowoj
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2 hours ago, Domowoj said:

Kenshin is right. You can field units with as many models as you have as per "Unit Size" paragraph on pg13 of core rules. In matched play, you have to pay for the rounded-up multiple of unit size; in this case, you would have to pay for 6 drones if you field a unit of 4, 5, or 6 drones. You cannot include under-strength units in battalions (pg15 core rules).

So you CAN just play 5 drones in a unit, legally, but...you are throwing 66.67 points out the window.

 

EDIT: And yes, a unit of 6 drones is very tanky and killy and fast/mobile. LoA is a good Daemon Hero to tag along, but I think Horticulous Slimux is comparable/better at the same amount of points. And a Verminlord Corruptor is the same amount of points as well. Chaos Lord of Daemonic Mount, Harbinger of Decay, and Daemon Prince are all cheaper while still fast enough to keep up. And a GUO with a Bell has always been the best choice in my book (always been fast enough to keep up in my experience) and provides the best support and people are often intimidated at the thought of trying to kill it. Give it Pestilent Breath and Endless Gift and it can wade through hordes of infantry alongside your flies.

I love the idea of Slimux going along because his free tree is fantastic! 

Isn't he a little slow though to try and keep up with the flies though?

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12 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Anyone else having horrific luck with the Aetherquartz brooch? Had 1 point back in about 10. Thinking about binning it. 

Don't say that! Using it for the first time today ! It should on average give you 1 back in a game, and perhaps 2 if you're lucky...

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6 hours ago, Dew said:

I love the idea of Slimux going along because his free tree is fantastic! 

Isn't he a little slow though to try and keep up with the flies though?

I suppose he is. :/

For some reason, I thought he had movement 8", but I was misremembering. He would need help from a GUO's bell.

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Not necessarily. Horticulous is a bit slow but when he runs he is fine. Just needs to be within 7”. He has not shooting attack and most likely have a tree nearby if he needs a charge. 

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20 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Do we have any ways to improve casting rolls guys? Having shocking luck getting anything off. 

Unfortunately not really.

Daemon wizards can take Tome of a Thousand Poxes for +1 to cast. GUO can combine that with his Blade ability. But this wont help you cast Blades of Putrefaction or other mortal-specific spells. I am pretty sure there are no hidden shenanigans here with allies or with realm artefacts either.

Try to stand near Arcane terrain features :P

 

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On 8/27/2018 at 3:48 PM, Tasman said:

I'm pretty sure you meant a +2 attacks on the drones, right? I like your list, but I find it to be a little hero-light. Also, the GUO may find it hard to keep up with the drones, depending on terrain, unit placement etc. He has a large footprint for shadowing..... that said, I never leave home without him?. You will need to be very careful and keep the Glott screened with those PBs. The scenario could make or break this list. Still, it'll be a fun slugfest.

So i managed to get minor victory (tied on VPs) on total commitment. It sort of went as I wanted- i left 30 PBs and 5 BKs to his 20 brutes on one side and everything else on the other. I did wipe out everything except the 20 brutes. Having said that, it's the second game now the Glottkin hasn't done much. He can't get buffs for spellcasting, so out of 8 attempted spells, 2 went off. Perhaps replacing him with a few heroes and another 5 BKs might have been better.

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5 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

So i managed to get minor victory (tied on VPs) on total commitment. It sort of went as I wanted- i left 30 PBs and 5 BKs to his 20 brutes on one side and everything else on the other. I did wipe out everything except the 20 brutes. Having said that, it's the second game now the Glottkin hasn't done much. He can't get buffs for spellcasting, so out of 8 attempted spells, 2 went off. Perhaps replacing him with a few heroes and another 5 BKs might have been better.

Sounds like bad rolling or good dispells on your opponents part. Spells with a casting value of 7 have a 54% chance of success. The glottkin is really good. I think of them this way. For 420 points you get a  caster with a dope ass unique spell and two casts (120 - similar to rotbringer sorcerer in points plus an artifact), an elite hero melee profile (otto.. another 120 points), and another monster level melee profile  and hit debuff aura (260 - similar to Bloab rotspawned maggoth lord), plus impact hits on the charge,  and an AMAZING command ability. Thats 500 points PLUS the command ability, PLUS the extra cast PLUS auto healing.. for 420. 

You cant rely on magic to be your primary source of damage or buffs because of the increased dispel range and magic heavy meta in second edition. Everyone here was exciting about the 30" dispel range.. I made the argument that the rich are going to get richer.. as magic heavy armies have better and more dispelling then nurgle. 

One trick is to place the glotkins base against the edge of the table on deployment if there is 24" between you and your opponents deployment on that particular scenario (some are 18"). Since he is on a 5.5" base, there will be 30.5" to any enemy units that are on their front line. If you are getting first turn, this gives you one turn without the enemy being able to dispel. 

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

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42 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Sounds like bad rolling or good dispells on your opponents part. Spells with a casting value of 7 have a 54% chance of success. The glottkin is really good. I think of them this way. For 420 points you get a  caster with a dope ass unique spell and two casts (120 - similar to rotbringer sorcerer in points plus an artifact), an elite hero melee profile (otto.. another 120 points), and another monster level melee profile  and hit debuff aura (260 - similar to Bloab rotspawned maggoth lord), plus impact hits on the charge,  and an AMAZING command ability. Thats 500 points PLUS the command ability, PLUS the extra cast PLUS auto healing.. for 420. 

100% with you on Glottkin. I did roll badly. He was primarily included for his command ability and his -1 to hit ability (ironjawz having bravery 6 made this pretty reliable). I chose him over the GUO for the London GT, so he is my preferred. That list I played was not a good list by any means, just wanted to see if 4 -1 to hits would stop ironjawz, and it sort of did!

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33 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Sounds like bad rolling or good dispells on your opponents part. Spells with a casting value of 7 have a 54% chance of success. The glottkin is really good. I think of them this way. For 420 points you get a  caster with a dope ass unique spell and two casts (120 - similar to rotbringer sorcerer in points plus an artifact), an elite hero melee profile (otto.. another 120 points), and another monster level melee profile  and hit debuff aura (260 - similar to Bloab rotspawned maggoth lord), plus impact hits on the charge,  and an AMAZING command ability. Thats 500 points PLUS the command ability, PLUS the extra cast PLUS auto healing.. for 420.  

You cant rely on magic to be your primary source of damage or buffs because of the increased dispel range and magic heavy meta in second edition. Everyone here was exciting about the 30" dispel range.. I made the argument that the rich are going to get richer.. as magic heavy armies have better and more dispelling then nurgle. 

One trick is to place the glotkins base against the edge of the table on deployment if there is 24" between you and your opponents deployment on that particular scenario (some are 18"). Since he is on a 5.5" base, there will be 30.5" to any enemy units that are on their front line. If you are getting first turn, this gives you one turn without the enemy being able to dispel. 

I would still point out that 54% is basically a coin toss and I echo your warning, "You can't rely on magic."

I like your optimistic points of view here about the cost of the Glott boys. I would personally not value them that high, because if you were to buy those individual components, you would have more combined wounds. But overall I like looking at it as the combined prices of each Glott brother. I think 420 is about spot on for the value they bring to the table.

Your Glottkin deployment tactic is a valid tip. I may be cheating a little here because my Glottkin came with a rectangular base and so I based him on a CD which is only 120mm (about 4.7 inches).

 

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5 hours ago, Domowoj said:

I would still point out that 54% is basically a coin toss and I echo your warning, "You can't rely on magic."

I like your optimistic points of view here about the cost of the Glott boys. I would personally not value them that high, because if you were to buy those individual components, you would have more combined wounds. But overall I like looking at it as the combined prices of each Glott brother. I think 420 is about spot on for the value they bring to the table.

Your Glottkin deployment tactic is a valid tip. I may be cheating a little here because my Glottkin came with a rectangular base and so I based him on a CD which is only 120mm (about 4.7 inches).

 

Thats actually a good point! Rotbringer sorc has 6, lord of plagues/blights and gutrot have 7 and lets take horticulous as the monster example (even though he doesnt have the monster keyword but does have a comparable statline and points cost for ghurk if broken down) has 8. Thats 21... WHY doesnt glotty have 21 wounds?! lol so nurgly! And I would tend to agree.. 400 OR 21 wounds would make him PERFECTLY costed. Im ok with the 18 and 420 as it is not that egregious. 

 

5 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

100% with you on Glottkin. I did roll badly. He was primarily included for his command ability and his -1 to hit ability (ironjawz having bravery 6 made this pretty reliable). I chose him over the GUO for the London GT, so he is my preferred. That list I played was not a good list by any means, just wanted to see if 4 -1 to hits would stop ironjawz, and it sort of did!

What was your list? I am having SERIOUS cold feet about my list going into NOVA. And Im kind of upset about it. is 20 kings enough in blight cyst? I could build and paint 5 more in the next couple days if I NEEDED to.  Perhaps I should dump the shrine? But RR all wounds is so good. And the 6++ combined with harbinger 5++ is dope. Maybe shouldnt even go blight cyst at all.. GAH. This is the list that I'm defaulting to. 

Leaders
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Malignance: Gift of Contagion
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- General
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing 
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Lord of Blights (140)
- Artefact: Rustfang 
Gutrot Spume (140)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
- Axes & Shields

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

Battalions
Blight Cyst (220)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 151
 

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14 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

What was your list? I am having SERIOUS cold feet about my list going into NOVA. And Im kind of upset about it. is 20 kings enough in blight cyst? I could build and paint 5 more in the next couple days if I NEEDED to.  Perhaps I should dump the shrine? But RR all wounds is so good. And the 6++ combined with harbinger 5++ is dope. Maybe shouldnt even go blight cyst at all.. GAH. This is the list that I'm defaulting to. 

Leaders
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Malignance: Gift of Contagion
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- General
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing 
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Lord of Blights (140)
- Artefact: Rustfang 
Gutrot Spume (140)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
- Axes & Shields

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

Battalions
Blight Cyst (220)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 151
 

That's an interesting list! Be interesting to see how it plays. I took GK, GUO, 30PB, 30PB, 5BK, 6 Drones, Geminids. Gives me 4 opportunities for -1 to hit. The list is only based around that and giving the GUO the Hysh artefact to give a command point back on a 5+ and then use GUO and GK and blades on the drones for big bomb-tasticness. It's ok but using 750 points or so on two fat dudes is a big commitment and it's hard to see both the GUO and GK getting their points worth in a battle. 

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5 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Thats actually a good point! Rotbringer sorc has 6, lord of plagues/blights and gutrot have 7 and lets take horticulous as the monster example (even though he doesnt have the monster keyword but does have a comparable statline and points cost for ghurk if broken down) has 8. Thats 21... WHY doesnt glotty have 21 wounds?! lol so nurgly! And I would tend to agree.. 400 OR 21 wounds would make him PERFECTLY costed. Im ok with the 18 and 420 as it is not that egregious. 

 

What was your list? I am having SERIOUS cold feet about my list going into NOVA. And Im kind of upset about it. is 20 kings enough in blight cyst? I could build and paint 5 more in the next couple days if I NEEDED to.  Perhaps I should dump the shrine? But RR all wounds is so good. And the 6++ combined with harbinger 5++ is dope. Maybe shouldnt even go blight cyst at all.. GAH. This is the list that I'm defaulting to. 

Leaders
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Malignance: Gift of Contagion
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- General
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing 
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Lord of Blights (140)
- Artefact: Rustfang 
Gutrot Spume (140)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)
- Axes & Shields

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

Battalions
Blight Cyst (220)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 151
 

How do you like the war shrine? I've never used one. I like the concept but the warscroll seems weak to me. Back when it was 200 points it was definitely overcosted. I suppose that the idea of models within 8" has always seemed like such a short range for a 6+ ward save, but I guess it's more like a 19-20" diameter bubble centered on the shrine, which seems big enough. We have so many big models that need to be in the center of everything...

Is 160 worth the 6+ ward save and the re-roll wounds prayer? Do you think it earns its points back? For the same amount of points you could take 21 wounds of blightkings, or an entire second unit of 20 marauders and Geminids. Do you save close to 20 wounds over the course of a game with a warshrine? It's a pretty cool model, either way.

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@Domowoj Re-rolling all wounds is pretty sick on blightkings when you get a bunch of sixes. And its no slouch in combat with 6 attacks 4/3/-/2. The 6+ is noticeable and DEF helps.  but I can say it does get disheartening to get an additional save roll but save so few.. but over the course of the game I do probably save close to 15. A few times it has meant the death of a hero or not. Or saving Glottkin from dropping to a lower tier. Its also good protection against alpha strikes if I cant get my harbinger to apply the command ability beforehand. 

Im worried about adding another 5 kings that Im piling on both my strength and weakness. As opposed to diversifying. If I run up against nighthaunt with blight cyst it is a headache for sure.. but having the warshrine gives me a better chance then more blightkings that arent effective.  I rarely find myself saying... 20 kings just wasnt enough....Im sorry for rambling. Im a neurotic person and ALLERGIC to decision making. 

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One last question, then I PROMISE I will leave you guys along until I post some NOVA pictures/updates. If Im only running 20 maruaders instead of 40.. is blades worth it on glottkin. sure they are good on blightkings too.. kind of. Maybe gift of contagion?? random debuff but all three are great options. Or perhaps magnificient buboes?  d3 mw and -1 to hit but only heros. I like the idea of plague squall too.. but it seems uninspired. Leaning towards gift of contagion.... thoughts? @Domowoj

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All good points. It's good to hear a positive opinion about a unit that I've written off. However, now I am going to need to buy/create one and hem-and-haw about whether I use it or not...

I am the same way; I constantly over-analyze and second-guess my lists.

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I've never tried 20 marauders because 40 is so much better and only 80 more points, but it seems like you'd have to sac the warshrine to get them up to 40.  I am not sure what 20 are capable of besides objective-work. I just feel like they are somewhat fragile (not as bad as plague monks), and the barbarian hordes bonus is really important if you are planning on using Blades of Putrefaction against order and death factions that can debuff to hit.

One more thing to note, is that you could potentially swap out your 20 Marauders for 20 Plague Monks and an extra CP. I know the Plague Monks aren't mortals and are extremely fragile and no way to keep them alive longer (except Plague of Flies CA), but they do hit harder than 20 Marauders and bring the same amount of bodies. And starting with 2 extra CPs will allow you to go an extra turn with tandem Morbid Vigour and Lords of Nurgle.

Plague squall is a nice choice for The Glottkin because them boys are so high up on Ghurk's back, that they can usually see all the enemy units. Plague squall is also cast on a 6+, which is huge for us! And you can generally semi-rely on it to snipe enemy support heroes by whittling them down over a couple turns.

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Hey,

as I don´t really like drones (I know, I know)I´m looking for a alternative hammer-unit.

What do you guys think of a Unit of 6 Bile Troggoths? I think they are one of the clear winners of the FW Update.

They do have the same basi size, worse movement, but 5W each with a 4+ Save, regenerating D3 Wounds a turn. Main Weakness would be low bravery of 5 (have to reserve one CP for them) and lack of synergies (would love for them to have the MORTAL keyword).

 

Offensively a Unit of 6 does have :

6 Short Range (7") Shooting attacks, at 3+/3+/-2/D3 (+1MW on 6 to hit)

18 Melee (2") attacks at 4+/3+/-1/2

 

They are 180Pts for 3.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Edited by Primes

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