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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

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43 minutes ago, whiskeytango said:

whats sources of +1 to hit can Nurgle get?

Chaos lord on demonic mount can give +1 to hit to chariots and chaos knights. That is ALL as far as I know.. including all allies. 

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4 hours ago, whiskeytango said:

whats sources of +1 to hit can Nurgle get?

Chaos Marauders have the potential to get a +1 to hit when they pile in because of an ability on their warscroll. That makes them decent recipients of the blades of putrefaction spell. No way to buff blightking to hit though sadly.

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18 hours ago, Dreadmund said:

Chaos Marauders have the potential to get a +1 to hit when they pile in because of an ability on their warscroll. That makes them decent recipients of the blades of putrefaction spell. No way to buff blightking to hit though sadly.

Well Im wrong.. in a sense and your post helped me. I thought the poster was referring to like a buff, not a warscroll ability. Maruaders are one, Centigors can give themselves +1 to hit automatically but are also +1 to BE hit (because they are so drunk LOL), Bestigors get +1 to hit if attacking units with 10+ models. 

 

I have 180 points in my list I'm uncertain what to do with FOR NOVA GT. My three realistic choices are:

Festus (with blades of putrefaction) on a balewind (2 casts, great native spell, massive damage spike potential with blades)

Great Bray shaman with the wildfire taurus (for more strike last options, and Devolve can be and amazing spell for pulling off an objective, kiting Hearthguard..)

10 chaos warriors for guarding home objectives (especially in knife to the heart, total conquest, focal points )

Rest of my list (which I've posted before) is Harbinger, Spume, Contorted Epitome, 10 kings, 10 kings, 10 kings, 40 marauders, chaos warshrine. 

 

I think Festus and the balewind is the best option.. but I want to use my Wall Street Bull so much!! :P What are your opinions? 

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On 8/14/2019 at 2:16 AM, sal4m4nd3r said:

This is my NOVA Open GT list as well. “I got 199 wounds but Tzeentch ain’t one” 🤣

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- General
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing  
- Artefact: The Witherstave  
Gutrot Spume (140)
Festus the Leechlord (140)
- Lore of Foulness: Plague Squall
The Contorted Epitome (200)
- Allies

Battleline
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 200 / 400
Wounds: 199
 

What do you think how this style of list will do vs the present "I fight first, you fight last or I fight twice" environment? 

Are you able to "tank" enough? 

I'm really curious to try your approach of list style. With missing 40 mauraders, 15 blightkings, epitome and warshrine it's just feeling like I have to buy a complete new army :(

Proxy testing is a first way but with 60% of the army as proxys it really looks stupid :D

I really look into this because the next tournament has a house rule with scoring objectives only by wounds left within 4'. And I think this list can outnumber wounds on objectives pretty effective :D

 

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12 hours ago, Zplash said:

What do you think how this style of list will do vs the present "I fight first, you fight last or I fight twice" environment? 

Are you able to "tank" enough? 

I'm really curious to try your approach of list style. With missing 40 mauraders, 15 blightkings, epitome and warshrine it's just feeling like I have to buy a complete new army :(

Proxy testing is a first way but with 60% of the army as proxys it really looks stupid :D

I really look into this because the next tournament has a house rule with scoring objectives only by wounds left within 4'. And I think this list can outnumber wounds on objectives pretty effective :D

 

 

Ummm yeah. If scoring was based off wounds this list would be so much more effective. Instead of counting as ten, they would count as 41!!! And a unit of 40 marauders with fleshy abundance (not in this list obviously..) wouldn’t count as 80!!!

My list can tank an incredible amount of damage. Between making opponents RR 6s to hit and/or wound, the multiple DPR (damage prevention rolls), the massive amount of wounds in the blightkings units, healing.. also making units strike last in combat is added protection. 

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Entering a local tournament, 1250 points. 

First time I'm entering something like this and have no competitive play experience. 

Looking for ideas for making a PBK centric list as they're my favourite models to play with. 

Any thoughts/help people could offer me? 

Thank you!

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2 hours ago, Cchalmers said:

Entering a local tournament, 1250 points. 

First time I'm entering something like this and have no competitive play experience. 

Looking for ideas for making a PBK centric list as they're my favourite models to play with. 

Any thoughts/help people could offer me? 

Thank you!

Im happy to help! What models do you have access to? 

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39 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Im happy to help! What models do you have access to? 

Harbinger, Festus, Gutrot, Glottkin, Lord of Plagues, Lord on Pusgoyle, 30 Plaguebearers, 20 PBK, 3 Plague Drones, 3 Pusgoyle, Beast of Nurgle. 

 

Think that's everything 

 

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51 minutes ago, Cchalmers said:

Harbinger, Festus, Gutrot, Glottkin, Lord of Plagues, Lord on Pusgoyle, 30 Plaguebearers, 20 PBK, 3 Plague Drones, 3 Pusgoyle, Beast of Nurgle. 

 

Think that's everything 

 

How about:

 

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Harbinger of Decay (160)
Gutrot Spume (140)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)

Units
3 x Plague Drones (200)
1 x Beasts of Nurgle (80)

Total: 1220 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 116
 

Good shot at a triumph. Could split one of the units of kings into 2x 5 in order to cover more objectives.  Take the unit of ten with gutrot. Harbinger can trigger the drones locus, if you are able to be nearby. 

 

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Harbinger of Decay (160)
Lord of Afflictions (200)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)

Units
3 x Plague Drones (200)

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 110
 

This list starts with a command point. Nice for botched charges. Or nice realm commands (if playing with realm rules) or even the new commands (RR 1s on the drones buffed by the locus is reallllly nice!) Could make the list fighty by making the LoA the general and giving him the Virulent contagion trait ("adds" one rend to all his weapons, including that of the fly.) The fly's bell would be rend 3, his spike would be 3/3+/3+/-2/d3 damage! and the mouthparts would get rend to. Rustfang artefact would be even more deadly. Obviously the witherstave is the best artefact in the entire book. The LoA also activates the locus on the drones, and allows nearby (7"... NOT wholly within) rr1s to hit. A bit more fighty. 

I happy to help if you dont like either of these. Have any models you want to use in particular? How do you feel about no magic? 

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10 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

How about:

 

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Harbinger of Decay (160)
Gutrot Spume (140)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)

Units
3 x Plague Drones (200)
1 x Beasts of Nurgle (80)

Total: 1220 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 116
 

Good shot at a triumph. Could split one of the units of kings into 2x 5 in order to cover more objectives.  Take the unit of ten with gutrot. Harbinger can trigger the drones locus, if you are able to be nearby. 

 

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Harbinger of Decay (160)
Lord of Afflictions (200)

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)

Units
3 x Plague Drones (200)

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 110
 

This list starts with a command point. Nice for botched charges. Or nice realm commands (if playing with realm rules) or even the new commands (RR 1s on the drones buffed by the locus is reallllly nice!) Could make the list fighty by making the LoA the general and giving him the Virulent contagion trait ("adds" one rend to all his weapons, including that of the fly.) The fly's bell would be rend 3, his spike would be 3/3+/3+/-2/d3 damage! and the mouthparts would get rend to. Rustfang artefact would be even more deadly. Obviously the witherstave is the best artefact in the entire book. The LoA also activates the locus on the drones, and allows nearby (7"... NOT wholly within) rr1s to hit. A bit more fighty. 

I happy to help if you dont like either of these. Have any models you want to use in particular? How do you feel about no magic? 

I really like the idea of that second list, uses a model I like that I barely ever use. 

I love the witherstave for perpetual trolling, so I'd keep that.

My only worry with no magic is manipulating the wheel... 

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Interesting, I just realized I could basically play AoS right now at 1k points (I ve got plenty of Plaguebearers, drones etc. Could use some of my WH40K conversions as characters).

I ve heard Nurgle / Maggotkin are bad though, correct ? It s all about 2+ Save goblin spam nowadays ?

Not too familiar with Sigmar

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Cchalmers said:

I really like the idea of that second list, uses a model I like that I barely ever use. 

I love the witherstave for perpetual trolling, so I'd keep that.

My only worry with no magic is manipulating the wheel... 

Well you could still take the grandfathers blessing trait for a one time re-set or push forward. And still.. is one caster with no bonus worth those points in a 1kish game? I'd say not. 

 

1 hour ago, Kociboss said:

Interesting, I just realized I could basically play AoS right now at 1k points (I ve got plenty of Plaguebearers, drones etc. Could use some of my WH40K conversions as characters).

I ve heard Nurgle / Maggotkin are bad though, correct ? It s all about 2+ Save goblin spam nowadays ?

Not too familiar with Sigmar

Sigmar is not as reduced a game in terms of builds as 40k is. Nurgle isnt "bad." They have a 47.7% win ratio on honest wargamer.  Not sure where you heard this. And I have no clue what 2+ save goblin spam is. If you are referring to Gloomspite Gitz faction, I dont know of any 2+ save spam, nor do I know of how you could possibly have 2+ save grots. But Nurgle is a fun army to play, with strong build options depending on your meta.  Plaguebearers and drones make up the core of nurgle demons list. 

Edited by sal4m4nd3r
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1 hour ago, Kociboss said:

I ve heard Nurgle / Maggotkin are bad though, correct ? It s all about 2+ Save goblin spam nowadays ?

Not too familiar with Sigmar

Subjective opinion but I'd argue that MoN is currently the worst god-specific chaos faction.

Slaanesh >> Khorne >= Tzeentch > Nurgle, with only HoS being able to consistently contest the top tables since their release (and kinda being the faction to beat as it turns out). I think MoN is a lower tier 2 or good tier 3 army. Maybe.

That being said, the models are awesome (Glottkin and Blightknight especially). The biggest chunk of my collection is khorne-related but I couldn't resist buying some Nurgle stuff.

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1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Well you could still take the grandfathers blessing trait for a one time re-set or push forward. And still.. is one caster with no bonus worth those points in a 1kish game? I'd say not. 

 

Sigmar is not as reduced a game in terms of builds as 40k is. Nurgle isnt "bad." They have a 47.7% win ratio on honest wargamer.  Not sure where you heard this. And I have no clue what 2+ save goblin spam is. If you are referring to Gloomspite Gitz faction, I dont know of any 2+ save spam, nor do I know of how you could possibly have 2+ save grots. But Nurgle is a fun army to play, with strong build options depending on your meta.  Plaguebearers and drones make up the core of nurgle demons list. 

I ve heard about shield giving them 5+ save and 3 banners giving them 2+ save vs shooting ? I ve seen some YT video about it I believe but I know nothing about AoS so it might have been entirely wrong.

Anyways 47.7% is pretty terrible indeed. I guess I ll wait for better times for this army and keep on playing 40k :)


PS.

It was this video where they discuss it:
 

 

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Posted (edited)

@Kociboss Ahh yes. Mini Wargaming. Battle reports and rules critiques from people who don't understand the rules. The point in the video you are talking about starts at 11m45s for anyone who wants to back me up. They claim for every banner they have in the unit, they get +1 save against shooting. However reading comprehension will win the day. The rule states (emphasis mine):

Quote

STANDARD BEARERS: 1 in every 20 models in this unit can either be a Moonclan Flag Bearer or a Bad Moon Icon Bearer. Add 1 to the Bravery characteristic of a unit that includes any Moonclan Flag Bearers. Add 1 to save rolls for attacks made with missile weapons that target a unit that includes any Bad Moon Icon Bearers.

So even if they had 1000 icon bearers, they would only get +1 to save. So you are correct.. you are entirely wrong.

Have fun playing 40k! Glad you are sticking with it!

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

@Kociboss Ahh yes. Mini Wargaming. Battle reports and rules critiques from people who don't understand the rules. The point in the video you are talking about starts at 11m45s for anyone who wants to back me up. They claim for every banner they have in the unit, they get +1 save against shooting. However reading comprehension will win the day. The rule states (emphasis mine):

So even if they had 1000 icon bearers, they would only get +1 to save. So you are correct.. you are entirely wrong.

Have fun playing 40k! Glad you are sticking with it!

Ah there we go. It s kind of a shame that such a popular channel is misleading inexperienced people like me ;)

Thank you for clarifying ! It did sound kind of unlikely but hey... I ve seen some broken combos in 40k so I did not want to judge.

And thank you, I do like 8th edition of 40K I think it s the best so far :) Just finished another enjoyable game in ITC format.



PS.

Sooner or later I know I will break and try some AoS just to change things up 😜

Edited by Kociboss
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@sal4m4nd3r you are defending papa nurgle pretty emotional :D

I think the comment above wasn't meant to bad. But still you are right with your rule description and papa nurgle needs more dedicated people to help his cause. 

Let's see to increase this 47% win rate hehe 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Zplash said:

@sal4m4nd3r you are defending papa nurgle pretty emotional :D

I think the comment above wasn't meant to bad. But still you are right with your rule description and papa nurgle needs more dedicated people to help his cause. 

Let's see to increase this 47% win rate hehe 


Oh yeah I did not mean to be smug or offend anyone, I just shared what I ve heard and what turned out to be wrong. I hope Salamander saying "Have fun playing 40k! Glad you are sticking with it!" did not basically mean "GTFO" 😛

Edited by Kociboss
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Kociboss said:

Ah there we go. It s kind of a shame that such a popular channel is misleading inexperienced people like me ;)

Thank you for clarifying ! It did sound kind of unlikely but hey... I ve seen some broken combos in 40k so I did not want to judge.

And thank you, I do like 8th edition of 40K I think it s the best so far :) Just finished another enjoyable game in ITC format.



PS.

Sooner or later I know I will break and try some AoS just to change things up 😜

AoS rules must be read to the WORD. The words used are VERY purposeful. At one point, the rules for nets in grot units was literally "a few models in this unit may be netters." You may be unfamiliar but the literal definition of a few is precisely three.. even though colloquially its used as an unspecified number.  MWG has amazing battle reports and the style, and production are great. But they are notorious for getting rules wrong. So it bothers me when they go on "rants" about problems with the game without having an expert level knowledge on the rules. Its irresponsible. 

Edit: I certainly didn't mean for that to be a GTFO message. Just that any gaming is better then no gaming. 

You should make the leap into the mortal realms! Its a great game and even the competitive scene is filled with chill people. Hope I didn't come across as rude @Zplash! Was not my intention. 50% win rate for EVERY faction means the game is "perfectly balanced. " As close to a 50% win rate on any faction is what be be strived for. Plus or minus a few points probably a function of dice rolls and player skill.  Nurgle is not underpowered, or overpowered. A few units have higher then expected points costs, but nothing holding them back from winning. Nothing pushing them to the top tabled either. 

I will see what I can do about upping that 47.7% at NOVA next week!!!! of course, my homeboi's in this thread will be the first to know :D

Edited by sal4m4nd3r
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We are totally fine :)

And concerning MWG I really can understand you! It's like there isn't 1 battle report with an critical rule failure :( but I think the focus for the guys is more on the fluff and fun side which is totally fine. You just can't compare it to the competitive meta. 

Lokking forward to hear your results at Nova and how your list worked out. 

PS: pulled the trigger and more PBKs as well as 40 marauders are ordered :D so don't let me down with your list core idea haha @sal4m4nd3r 

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16 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

 

You should make the leap into the mortal realms! Its a great game and even the competitive scene is filled with chill people. Hope I didn't come across as rude @Zplash! Was not my intention. 50% win rate for EVERY faction means the game is "perfectly balanced. " As close to a 50% win rate on any faction is what be be strived for. Plus or minus a few points probably a function of dice rolls and player skill.  Nurgle is not underpowered, or overpowered. A few units have higher then expected points costs, but nothing holding them back from winning. Nothing pushing them to the top tabled either. 

I will see what I can do about upping that 47.7% at NOVA next week!!!! of course, my homeboi's in this thread will be the first to know :D


I will surely try :)

What would you suggest for a beginner ? I do have 60 plaguebearers, bunch of nurglings,  drones from 2x Start collecting, Sloppity, Poxbringer, Scrivener, GUO and 5 Putrids I wanted to use for some conversions. Plus bunch of DG characters I can proxy

Anything particular I should buy right away to boost my forces like Plague Monks ? (I ve heard they are good although it hurts my brain that Skaven are fighting for chaos god Nurgle but w/e)
 

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56 minutes ago, Kociboss said:


I will surely try :)

What would you suggest for a beginner ? I do have 60 plaguebearers, bunch of nurglings,  drones from 2x Start collecting, Sloppity, Poxbringer, Scrivener, GUO and 5 Putrids I wanted to use for some conversions. Plus bunch of DG characters I can proxy

Anything particular I should buy right away to boost my forces like Plague Monks ? (I ve heard they are good although it hurts my brain that Skaven are fighting for chaos god Nurgle but w/e)
 

GUO, 2x poxbringer, 2x 30- plaguebearers, blightkings, 6 drones. Thats a dope start dude. Thats 1780 points. bilepiper and scrivener are so bad in sigmar is comical. unlike 40k where scriveners are amazing. Plague monks are good, but they shine in skaven armies with a plethora of battleshock ignoring rules. 

If you want to do the demon thing, a lot of people run the thricefold befoulment battalion thats 3x GUO. Lots of magic. fun army to play. One of the more competetive nurgle build ATM. only downside is it requires 3 GUOs lol. 

One of the most fun aspects of sigmar over 40k IMO, are the endless spells. Dont be afraid to incorporate some of those into your army! Some might be a bit tricky to use or see the value in (spell portal being a prime example) but if you get the hang of them they are a lot of fun and powerful!

 

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23 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

AoS rules must be read to the WORD. The words used are VERY purposeful. At one point, the rules for nets in grot units was literally "a few models in this unit may be netters." You may be unfamiliar but the literal definition of a few is precisely three.. even though colloquially its used as an unspecified number. 

Dictionaries disagree with that assertion. All of the definitions of few refer to an unspecified small number.  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/few?src=search-dict-box

 

On 8/18/2019 at 3:10 AM, Zplash said:

What do you think how this style of list will do vs the present "I fight first, you fight last or I fight twice" environment? 

Are you able to "tank" enough? 

I'm really curious to try your approach of list style. With missing 40 mauraders, 15 blightkings, epitome and warshrine it's just feeling like I have to buy a complete new army :(

Proxy testing is a first way but with 60% of the army as proxys it really looks stupid :D

I really look into this because the next tournament has a house rule with scoring objectives only by wounds left within 4'. And I think this list can outnumber wounds on objectives pretty effective :D

 

 

Blightkings can be great, but before investing too much consider your meta. If there's lots of -1 to hit and lots of slaanesh, that type of list will have some struggles. As mentioned, despite being piles of wounds, blightkings are low model count which makes some scenarios and match ups a tough slog. 

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47 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

 

Blightkings can be great, but before investing too much consider your meta. If there's lots of -1 to hit and lots of slaanesh, that type of list will have some struggles. As mentioned, despite being piles of wounds, blightkings are low model count which makes some scenarios and match ups a tough slog. 

Yeah totally agree. 

A good slaanesh list will bring up another 2000 points on the table vs that heavy wound focused list... 

Not sure how my approach with this list would look like vs slaanesh. Sounds like a pretty up-hill battle... :(

 

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