AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[sal4m4nd3r]

5 hours ago, knas said:

Competitively speaking what type of lists do work? For daemons / mortals respectively?  Like in general, not specialists tournament winning lists! Is it just Blight cyst and the GOU batallion?

As @hughwyeth eluded to I have moderate success with mortal heavy lists. I typically run between 20-30 blightkings,  with harbinger and warshrine for ward saves. Sometimes with blight cyst. Sometimes without. Lately I have been ally in the contored eptiome or 30 bestigors and a  bray Shaman (with the wildfire taurus). Another local nurgle player has had success with the thricefold befoulment list and a litany of endless spells. Problem with that id your TZ will easily out magic even three GUOs. So will Gloomspite. So will Slaanesh (RR successful casts and RR all unbinds), So will Nagash, so will khorne...

[Dreadmund]

Out of interest, what factions commonly bestow the -1 hit debuffs that mess blight kings up so much? My experience is limited because I tend to play with the same handful of players a lot but I have a tournament coming up and It'd be good to know what my worst matchups are going to be.

 

[sal4m4nd3r]

 

9 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

Out of interest, what factions commonly bestow the -1 hit debuffs that mess blight kings up so much? My experience is limited because I tend to play with the same handful of players a lot but I have a tournament coming up and It'd be good to know what my worst matchups are going to be.

 

Legions of Nagash with Overwhelming dread (sometimes cast twice if the roll is unmodified 9+),  Legion of blood, especially with neferatta, SCE have prayers that are  -1 to hit and RR 6s to hit, also any unit that drops from the sky is -1 to hit them,  Gloomspite Gitz netters and the Arachnarok spell "itchy nuiscance" which is a 12" bubble of -1 to hit from the giant 160mm base of the spider, ANY caster with those ****** geminids. The ever present gryph feather charm. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[hughwyeth]

51 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

 

Legions of Nagash with Overwhelming dread (sometimes cast twice if the roll is unmodified 9+),  Legion of blood, especially with neferatta, SCE have prayers that are  -1 to hit and RR 6s to hit, also any unit that drops from the sky is -1 to hit them,  Gloomspite Gitz netters and the Arachnarok spell "itchy nuiscance" which is a 12" bubble of -1 to hit from the giant 160mm base of the spider, ANY caster with those ****** geminids. The ever present gryph feather charm. 

This, although admittedly, my whole -1 phobia is from the death meta, which has moved on 6 months since, so that the big players in meta aren't as -1 to hit rich i guess? It's just in a tournament, investing 400/500/600 points in blightkings, only to face someone who makes them slightly better than plaguebearers is a crappy experience. It's frustrating GW haven't FAQ'd the exploding 6s to "natural roll of 6" because then blightkings would be great. Right now, shutting down Blightkings (with faction-agnostic geminids for example) is so easy to do, essentially neutering one of our 2 damage output units. 

[Dreadmund]

16 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

This, although admittedly, my whole -1 phobia is from the death meta, which has moved on 6 months since, so that the big players in meta aren't as -1 to hit rich i guess? It's just in a tournament, investing 400/500/600 points in blightkings, only to face someone who makes them slightly better than plaguebearers is a crappy experience. It's frustrating GW haven't FAQ'd the exploding 6s to "natural roll of 6" because then blightkings would be great. Right now, shutting down Blightkings (with faction-agnostic geminids for example) is so easy to do, essentially neutering one of our 2 damage output units.  

I feel the same way with Thricefold too. A ton of your damage in that list will come from spells which are so easy to shut down for a wide variety of factions. I think Nurgle's biggest weakness has to be how easy we are to counter. Really, other than that our battletome is pretty cool with lots of neat synergies and options.

[Xasz]

1 hour ago, Dreadmund said:

Out of interest, what factions commonly bestow the -1 hit debuffs that mess blight kings up so much? My experience is limited because I tend to play with the same handful of players a lot but I have a tournament coming up and It'd be good to know what my worst matchups are going to be.

Khorne can do this as well.

The Wrath Axe judgement/endless prayer bestows -1 to hit to any non-khorne units within 3".

It's arguably the best of the 3 judgements but it is usually only added if you have spare points. (i.e. not super frequent)

[hughwyeth]

1 hour ago, Dreadmund said:

I feel the same way with Thricefold too. A ton of your damage in that list will come from spells which are so easy to shut down for a wide variety of factions. I think Nurgle's biggest weakness has to be how easy we are to counter. Really, other than that our battletome is pretty cool with lots of neat synergies and options.

Yeah it's not like the battletome in isolation is bad, it's actually great, and when it launched in AoS 1 is worked pretty well, though still not Slaanesh level. Literally GW could give everything 10% points reduction, make blades of putrefaction and blightkings "Natural 6" and Nurgle still would not be top tier or anywhere near, but would be more fun and make 4-1s possible for more interesting builds. 

[Ratcliff]

10 hours ago, knas said:

Competitively speaking what type of lists do work? For daemons / mortals respectively?  Like in general, not specialists tournament winning lists! Is it just Blight cyst and the GOU batallion?

 

I've had a bit of success with the Tallyband. Went 3 and 5 at my most recent tournament and have picked up some good wins otherwise. I think I can go 4 and 1 before the end of the year, but it really is a case of adapting your playstyle, You can't play a Nurgle army the way you would with most other armies and you have to focus on their strengths. Unfortunately, killing units is not one of those strengths, but there's plenty of ways to skin a Terrorgeist and Nurgle have ways of nullifying the  current meta if you look hard enough. Nurgle also can have the element of surprise. It's jarring for opponents who are used to rush and smash warhammer to come against a Nurgle list, and they often aren't prepared for it

Edited July 17, 2019 by Ratcliff

[sal4m4nd3r]

1 hour ago, Ratcliff said:

 

I've had a bit of success with the Tallyband. Went 3 and 5 at my most recent tournament and have picked up some good wins otherwise. I think I can go 4 and 1 before the end of the year, but it really is a case of adapting your playstyle, You can't play a Nurgle army the way you would with most other armies and you have to focus on their strengths. Unfortunately, killing units is not one of those strengths, but there's plenty of ways to skin a Terrorgeist and Nurgle have ways of nullifying the  current meta if you look hard enough. Nurgle also can have the element of surprise. It's jarring for opponents who are used to rush and smash warhammer to come against a Nurgle list, and they often aren't prepared for it

I saw your post from before. You deserve a Kudos, because I will be honest, I wrote off the tallyband as expensive garbage. d3 plaguebearers a turn is literally nothing in the end. cp = 50 points. Lets just say the artefact is "worth" 50 points. average 2 plaguebearers a turn x say 3 units x 4 turns (which rarely happens in a tournament game anyway) and that's assuming none of the squads get wiped over the course of the game. That's about 24 plaguebearers which is 240 points. vs the cost of the battalion at 120 points.. In all likelihood its actually a net negative to take the battalion. 

So in all likelihood you are an extremely talented player. God help us all if you ever choose a competitive faction

 

 

[Zplash]

2 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I saw your post from before. You deserve a Kudos, because I will be honest, I wrote off the tallyband as expensive garbage. d3 plaguebearers a turn is literally nothing in the end. cp = 50 points. Lets just say the artefact is "worth" 50 points. average 2 plaguebearers a turn x say 3 units x 4 turns (which rarely happens in a tournament game anyway) and that's assuming none of the squads get wiped over the course of the game. That's about 24 plaguebearers which is 240 points. vs the cost of the battalion at 120 points.. In all likelihood its actually a net negative to take the battalion. 

So in all likelihood you are an extremely talented player. God help us all if you ever choose a competitive faction

 

 

Don't forget the big impact if those D3 plaguebearers saves you the 20+ models for 1-2 turns. Could be crucial. 

With favored poxes, witherstave etc. you can play the objective game. 

And last but not least when I play tallyband it's a 1 drop Armee so I guarantee to go first and make save to be first on those juicy objectives with my plaguebearers and LoB CA with - 2 to hit. 

I know it sounds better than it actually is but still I think it's in the current meta even better than blight cyst. 

[Ratcliff]

1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I saw your post from before. You deserve a Kudos, because I will be honest, I wrote off the tallyband as expensive garbage. d3 plaguebearers a turn is literally nothing in the end. cp = 50 points. Lets just say the artefact is "worth" 50 points. average 2 plaguebearers a turn x say 3 units x 4 turns (which rarely happens in a tournament game anyway) and that's assuming none of the squads get wiped over the course of the game. That's about 24 plaguebearers which is 240 points. vs the cost of the battalion at 120 points.. In all likelihood its actually a net negative to take the battalion. 

So in all likelihood you are an extremely talented player. God help us all if you ever choose a competitive faction

 

 

 

I've been playing Clan Pestilens until recently, Nurgle are only the second army I've ever used. But the new Skaven tome sort of ruined the enjoyment I had playing Pestilens. Went from being a good army to being massively overpowered and very dull to use!

I think you have to look at the tallyband a little differently. It is definitely overcosted, and I honestly haven't figured out what to do with that second artefact (witherstave being my first). But it adds a lot of unseen value to my list.  Firstly, the extra command point is vital to get the juice out of my Lord of Blights. Secondly, it means I mostly go first, and I really need to go first. Because I have so little punch, it's important to get up the board quickly and position the army effectively, getting plague of flies off and either favoured poxes or glorious afflictions out through the spell portal to nerf a dangerous enemy unit early. From then on it's buying time, soaking up the punches, gathering contagion points and slowly working my way up the board. 

It also gives me the option of nuking my opponent first turn if he deploys badly. Plague Monks are even better for Nurgle since the tome dropped, and I often just charge them up first turn in a long line and lock my opponent in for a turn or two. You basically sacrifice them, but it's worth it for that precious, precious time. 

[sal4m4nd3r]

2 minutes ago, Ratcliff said:

 

I've been playing Clan Pestilens until recently, Nurgle are only the second army I've ever used. But the new Skaven tome sort of ruined the enjoyment I had playing Pestilens. Went from being a good army to being massively overpowered and very dull to use!

I think you have to look at the tallyband a little differently. It is definitely overcosted, and I honestly haven't figured out what to do with that second artefact (witherstave being my first). But it adds a lot of unseen value to my list.  Firstly, the extra command point is vital to get the juice out of my Lord of Blights. Secondly, it means I mostly go first, and I really need to go first. Because I have so little punch, it's important to get up the board quickly and position the army effectively, getting plague of flies off and either favoured poxes or glorious afflictions out through the spell portal to nerf a dangerous enemy unit early. From then on it's buying time, soaking up the punches, gathering contagion points and slowly working my way up the board. 

It also gives me the option of nuking my opponent first turn if he deploys badly. Plague Monks are even better for Nurgle since the tome dropped, and I often just charge them up first turn in a long line and lock my opponent in for a turn or two. You basically sacrifice them, but it's worth it for that precious, precious time. 

If thats the case, I Would use the Aetherquartz Brooch from Hysh to regain any command point used on a 5+. Perhaps the witherstave on the poxbringer (as he is relatively protected and not a priority target) and put the endless gift on the GUO. Just some thoughts. Way to go on the build and keep going! post lists and results here. I play almost entirely mortals. So Its nice to see some demon heavy builds. 

Here is the list I will be taking to a 3 game RTT in Fredericksburg VA this saturday (pending wife approval)

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Gutrot Spume (140)
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- General
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing 
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Festus the Leechlord (140)
The Contorted Epitome (200)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 200 / 400
Wounds: 199
 

[Ratcliff]

9 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

If thats the case, I Would use the Aetherquartz Brooch from Hysh to regain any command point used on a 5+. Perhaps the witherstave on the poxbringer (as he is relatively protected and not a priority target) and put the endless gift on the GUO. Just some thoughts. Way to go on the build and keep going! post lists and results here. I play almost entirely mortals. So Its nice to see some demon heavy builds. 

Here is the list I will be taking to a 3 game RTT in Fredericksburg VA this saturday (pending wife approval)

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Gutrot Spume (140)
Harbinger of Decay (160)
- General
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing 
- Artefact: The Witherstave 
Festus the Leechlord (140)
The Contorted Epitome (200)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields

Units
1 x Chaos Warshrine (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 200 / 400
Wounds: 199
 

 

Looks great, what's the thinking behind the epitome, balewind and the warshrine?

Just looked at the brooch, how have I not seen that?! Amazing call, thank you. I like the Witherstave on my GUO because of its larger area of effect. Plus I love the way my army deploys, with the GUO at the centre of this shambling plaguebearer infestation

[TheVenerableBede]

8 hours ago, Xasz said:

Khorne can do this as well.

The Wrath Axe judgement/endless prayer bestows -1 to hit to any non-khorne units within 3".

It's arguably the best of the 3 judgements but it is usually only added if you have spare points. (i.e. not super frequent)

I'll tell you what other matchup gives lots of -1 to hit: Nurgle!  You have Cloud of Flies, Favoured Poxes, Gift of Contagion... 🙃

[Dreadmund]

28 minutes ago, TheVenerableBede said:

I'll tell you what other matchup gives lots of -1 to hit: Nurgle!  You have Cloud of Flies, Favoured Poxes, Gift of Contagion... 🙃

I've never played a nurgle mirror match but it sounds thoroughly exhausting.

[Zplash]

8 hours ago, Ratcliff said:

 

Looks great, what's the thinking behind the epitome, balewind and the warshrine?

Just looked at the brooch, how have I not seen that?! Amazing call, thank you. I like the Witherstave on my GUO because of its larger area of effect. Plus I love the way my army deploys, with the GUO at the centre of this shambling plaguebearer infestation

I think about the muttergrub on lob for wheel turning or tome on poxbringer for more reliable favored poxes cast. 

The brooch with only 2 starting cps is not reliable enough anymore with needing 5+

 

[Panjaca]

Hi guys, I've been experimentig with BoC in nurgle, so far i run with this:

Allegiance: Nurgle

Leaders
Lord of Blights (140)
- General
- Artefact: The Carrion Dirge 
The Glottkin (420)
Great Bray Shaman (100)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
30 x Plaguebearers (320)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
30 x Bestigors (300)

Battalions
Pestilent Throng (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Ravening Direflock (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 140
 

Bestigors hit hard and are pretty resilent with LoB and Glott buffs also bravery bomb works well for me, but some guys are sugesting to drop 30 pb for 6 bullgors for rend and high dmg output. Do you think that 6 cow with just 12 attacks are good replacement ? Have anyone try them in nurgle before?

[sal4m4nd3r]

13 hours ago, Ratcliff said:

 

Looks great, what's the thinking behind the epitome, balewind and the warshrine?

Just looked at the brooch, how have I not seen that?! Amazing call, thank you. I like the Witherstave on my GUO because of its larger area of effect. Plus I love the way my army deploys, with the GUO at the centre of this shambling plaguebearer infestation

To be honest I only suggested the witherstave change and endless gift, because to be honest, I had assumed the brioche didn’t fit with your plan. Yeah WS is obvious choice for GUO. 

My thinking with festus and balewind is that I could think of anything better with 180 points left. In the reality that is realm spells, casts and denies are a must. Just hope the dice are on your side. Festus has 2 great spells (blades and curse). Or can cast realm spells. 

Tje epitome is amazing for 200 points. Double caster. Native spell is great (d3 units rr 1s against) and RR all casts and unbinds. The strike last mechanic is just gravy. 

The warshrine is there for a great RR all wounds prayer on blightkings and an extra 6++ on top of 5++ from harbinger. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[Zplash]

6 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

To be honest I only suggested the witherstave change and endless gift, because to be honest, I had assumed the brioche didn’t fit with your plan. Yeah WS is obvious choice for GUO. 

My thinking with festus and balewind is that I could think of anything better with 180 points left. In the reality that is realm spells, casts and denies are a must. Just hope the dice are on your side. Festus has 2 great spells (blades and curse). Or can cast realm spells. 

Tje epitome is amazing for 200 points. Double caster. Native spell is great (d3 units rr 1s against) and RR all casts and unbinds. The strike last mechanic is just gravy. 

The warshrine is there for a great RR all wounds prayer on blightkings and an extra 6++ on top of 5++ from harbinger. 

Epitome is a great ally for a melee orientated nurgle list like blightkings or something with plague monks etc due to the chance of making the enemy fighting last and the signituare spell reroll 1s to hit. 

For the tallyband or magic orientated lists it looses a little bit of its charme but still very good for unbinds or casting endless spells

[Dreadmund]

Was hoping for a +1 to hit from one of the warcry warband scrolls. Instead theres another source of -1 hit for only 70 points

[Dolio]

Does anyone know of any way to give our Blightkings +1 to hit to counteract any -1s we get? 

[Dreadmund]

2 hours ago, Dolio said:

Does anyone know of any way to give our Blightkings +1 to hit to counteract any -1s we get? 

Play a different alliance and ally them in. There is literally no way to get +1 to hit as Nurgle alliegence.

[Dolio]

46 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

Play a different alliance and ally them in. There is literally no way to get +1 to hit as Nurgle alliegence.

Not what I wanted to hear but thanks for confirming that for me! 

[Rangeltoft]

a quick quetion regarding Favoured Poxes.

does a charge count as a move for breaking the spell? i.e if i cast it with a Poxbringer and then charge in the charge phase, would the spell end?

 

/Cheers Rangeltoft

[Floom]

If both the gain contagion points and Horticulous's spawn a gnarlmaw ability happen "at the start of the hero phase", can I summon one before gaining points or is there some overriding rule I'm missing?