AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[sal4m4nd3r]

4 minutes ago, murphs said:

It's unclear regarding the Plaguetouched Warband. 

The highlighted part of the answer can be read on its own and it clearly rules out the use of the warband for Nurgle allegiance armies. If this is the case then only Grand Alliance Chaos armies can use it as Everchosen don't have the models (could be wrong here).

However in the context of the question about allies in battalions, it may not apply to PTWB because that doesn't use allies. It's for the sitatuion where you want to bring an Artillery detachment in a Free Guild allegiance army, that is clearly not possible anymore.

The former seems correct unfortunately but it needs to be clarified. Given that last week I specifically bought Chaos Knights and Blight Kings and converted up some STD heroes so that I could use this battalion I am pretty pissed off right now.

I cant possibly see how its unclear. Your example doesn't make sense regarding the issue with PTWB, because the the free peoples player isnt using a free people battalion and filling it with ironweld arsenal units. They are using grand alliance order units with grand alliance order units. 

The answer to the question in the FAQ CLEARLY states that if a warscroll battalion has one allegiance and the army has a different allegiance then the points of the battalion and the units inside count against your ally cap.  The unit's allegiance inside the battalion don't matter. Its all about that umbrella battalions allegiance. 

@Gaz Taylor I was laughing for pointing us to the aos faq team who seemingly cant/dont want to read the rules as they were written 1-2 weeks ago. I just found that funny. 

[grungolah]

My problem with the loss of Plaguetouched is the combined loss of Blades.   What shall I  throw on Marauders to justify their inclusion when all mortal battalions must now include 3 units of kings?   

[Aaron Schmidt]

34 minutes ago, grungolah said:

My problem with the loss of Plaguetouched is the combined loss of Blades.   What shall I  throw on Marauders to justify their inclusion when all mortal battalions must now include 3 units of kings?   

Why is blades not worth putting on Marauders (assuming I'm taking your meaning correctly)?

[grungolah]

Just now, Aaron Schmidt said:

Why is blades not worth putting on Marauders (assuming I'm taking your meaning correctly)?

Now it is trivially stopped.   Unbind at 30" really knocks the wind out of those sails. 

[robotnik_taco]

Yeah the possible plaguetouched loss sucks, but anyone else notice the maggotkin faq lists all the heroes cant stack their command abilities,  except for GLOTTKIN?

Edited June 28, 2018 by robotnik_taco

[Tasman]

29 minutes ago, robotnik_taco said:

Yeah the possible plaguetouched loss sucks, but anyone else notice the maggotkin faq lists all the heroes cant stack their command abilities,  except for GLOTTKIN?

Yes, it states that the SAME UNIT can't be affected in the same phase. So, no multiple Harbys, for example. I can live with that.

[robotnik_taco]

I was implying spamming the glottkins command ability multiple times in a round, granting multiple attacks, as it doesn't have the squirrelly bloodsecrator language. Since glottkin is the only unit with a command ability that was not explicit stated 'this doesn't stack multuple times on a unit' , the gain of the this ability might be a unique, tho entirely different new tool to use

Edited June 28, 2018 by robotnik_taco

[hughwyeth]

1 hour ago, grungolah said:

Now it is trivially stopped.   Unbind at 30" really knocks the wind out of those sails. 

But that's the same with all spells. It's still definitely worth taking if you have 3 or 4 spellcaster. If you have 1 spellcaster, probably not.  And it's not that hard to keep the spellcaster out of dispel range but in range of a unit you want to buff and then run+charge the unit into battle. I mean we got really lucky with the huge move we can get out of the new battletome. 

[Aaron Schmidt]

1 hour ago, grungolah said:

Now it is trivially stopped.   Unbind at 30" really knocks the wind out of those sails. 

How did PTWB make blades more likely to go off?

[decker_cky]

2 hours ago, robotnik_taco said:

Yeah the possible plaguetouched loss sucks, but anyone else notice the maggotkin faq lists all the heroes cant stack their command abilities,  except for GLOTTKIN?

Glottkin triple tapping his command ability with a unit of plague monks (with staffs) breaks the game since there is no longer enough time to roll all the dice (each of 40 models gets 6 foetid blade attacks  and 4 woe stave attack on the charge). And that's just one unit in his large bubble effect...

Edited June 28, 2018 by decker_cky

[Blackspine]

7 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

Glottkin triple tapping his command ability with a unit of plague monks (with staffs) breaks the game since there is no longer enough time to roll all the dice (each of 40 models gets 6 foetid blade attacks  and 4 woe stave attack on the charge). And that's just one unit in his large bubble effect...

How does Glottkin get to 'triple tap'?
He's unique, so you couldn't triplicate him. 
 

 

[Jamopower]

1 minute ago, Blackspine said:

How does Glottkin get to 'triple tap'?
He's unique, so you couldn't triplicate him. 
 

 

Just use the command ability several times.

 

(What comes to amount of attacks, no one beats 40 skeletons with few uses of +1 attack command abilities topped with Vanhel's...)

[Smed1986]

25 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

Just use the command ability several times.

 

(What comes to amount of attacks, no one beats 40 skeletons with few uses of +1 attack command abilities topped with Vanhel's...)

Can you use the command ability of a single model multiple times? I thought not and why the Glottkin wasn't included in the FAQ as he's unique, but you could have a couple of the others floating around to spam it

[Darkfine]

While we are talking about skeletons, my main opponent is a LoN player who runs a 40 block of them with support characters.  Fully tooled he is getting 160 attacks in a combat phase out of just that squad.  Couple that with LoN ability to return piles of models to the field in their hero phase and end result is I’m about 0-14 so far.  

Worst example is a I get a turn two charge off with my entire list, drop his dogs to one mode, chunk the skeletons for 12 or so.  At the start of his movement he had brought everything save for one dog back.  

Is Nurgle just not capable of dealing with it at low point total games?

[grungolah]

2 hours ago, Aaron Schmidt said:

How did PTWB make blades more likely to go off?

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.  Both PTWB and Blades were 2 excuses to bring Marauders.  Now they aren't.  

 

3 minutes ago, Darkfine said:

While we are talking about skeletons, my main opponent is a LoN player who runs a 40 block of them with support characters.  Fully tooled he is getting 160 attacks in a combat phase out of just that squad.  Couple that with LoN ability to return piles of models to the field in their hero phase and end result is I’m about 0-14 so far.  

Worst example is a I get a turn two charge off with my entire list, drop his dogs to one mode, chunk the skeletons for 12 or so.  At the start of his movement he had brought everything save for one dog back.  

Is Nurgle just not capable of dealing with it at low point total games?

The secret to fighting death is to kill the heros.  If you bring no tools to get past the hordes, you will probably get stuck.

 

 

[robotnik_taco]

40 minutes ago, Smed1986 said:

Can you use the command ability of a single model multiple times? I thought not and why the Glottkin wasn't included in the FAQ as he's unique, but you could have a couple of the others floating around to spam it

 

[Darkfine]

24 minutes ago, grungolah said:

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.  Both PTWB and Blades were 2 excuses to bring Marauders.  Now they aren't.  

 

The secret to fighting death is to kill the heros.  If you bring no tools to get past the hordes, you will probably get stuck.

 

 

Right, kind of the whole issue.  Nurgle isn’t exactly known for hero sniping.  Before it gets mentioned we do have a few spells that can finish a hero but trying to take down a Necromancer and a Wight King with d3 damage a turn if you get lucky isn’t exactly reliable.

So better question then, at 750- 1000 points how do you delete characters with a Nurgle list.

[sal4m4nd3r]

As of right now, you can use Glotkin's command ability as many times as you have command points. Simply incredible to lack of fundamental common sense on the part of the rules team. I will be exploiting the HELL out of this oversight until it is corrected. Cant wait for my blightkings to roll up with 60 attacks. maybe add in the plague cyst for re-rolling every missed hit roll. 

[Blackspine]

At 1000 your options are very limited

I'd recommend Gutrot and a 5 pack of PBKs to drop behind their lines right as you hit the front. thats my only thought for that point level.

Maybe a Lord of Affliction or another flier

 

as an ally, there's more options.

[Darkfine]

6 minutes ago, Blackspine said:

At 1000 your options are very limited

I'd recommend Gutrot and a 5 pack of PBKs to drop behind their lines right as you hit the front. thats my only thought for that point level.

Maybe a Lord of Affliction or another flier

 

as an ally, there's more options.

40 Skeletons makes for a whole lot of bubble wrap, just can’t physically get to them.  I’m a-okay if the answer is “Nurgle can’t beat LoN before 1250-1500”, just figured I’d pose the question.

[sorokyl]

38 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

As of right now, you can use Glotkin's command ability as many times as you have command points. Simply incredible to lack of fundamental common sense on the part of the rules team. I will be exploiting the HELL out of this oversight until it is corrected. Cant wait for my blightkings to roll up with 60 attacks. maybe add in the plague cyst for re-rolling every missed hit roll. 

Blightkings are probably the worst Nurgle unit for the glotkin's ability, since they only have 1 weapon and it has 3 attacks. A measly 33% increase for each command point spent.   Plaguebearers get 100% increase, Plague Monks get a 66% increase but are more deadly than plaguebearers to start with.  Both of these units also get a lot more out of Glottkins Fleshy Abundance spell.  The Pusgoyle Blightlords and Plague Drones are alright too since they have some 1-2 attack weapons. 


 

[sal4m4nd3r]

20 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

Blightkings are probably the worst Nurgle unit for the glotkin's ability, since they only have 1 weapon and it has 3 attacks. A measly 33% increase for each command point spent.   Plaguebearers get 100% increase, Plague Monks get a 66% increase but are more deadly than plaguebearers to start with.  Both of these units also get a lot more out of Glottkins Fleshy Abundance spell.  The Pusgoyle Blightlords and Plague Drones are alright too since they have some 1-2 attack weapons. 


 

I would only think about the percent increase in effectiveness of the buff if I was basing it off the assumption I am casting BoP. This is because one blightking attack is worth so much more then 1 plaguebearer attack. unless we are going for volume for MW generation through blades. Then its still marauders every day of the week as they can easily get +1 to hit. 

[Blackspine]

PBK's extra attack can also proc more hits, 

they wound on 3s as well.

And if you're running Blight Cyst, -1 rend.

[Blackspine]

59 minutes ago, Darkfine said:

40 Skeletons makes for a whole lot of bubble wrap, just can’t physically get to them.  I’m a-okay if the answer is “Nurgle can’t beat LoN before 1250-1500”, just figured I’d pose the question.

well, then in that case he's sticking to one area. 
Most objective games that blob of necros will not be able to out pace you. Tie them up and sit on objectives.

[peasant]

1 hour ago, Darkfine said:

40 Skeletons makes for a whole lot of bubble wrap, just can’t physically get to them.  I’m a-okay if the answer is “Nurgle can’t beat LoN before 1250-1500”, just figured I’d pose the question.

IDK if necromancers can heal but necros and wight kings are only 5W they are easy targets for:

1. sixth state of nurgle cycle 1d3

2 plague squall 1d3

3 the other spell that only target heroes 1d3

4 rotigus , 1d3

5 cigor (ally) 1D6 

6 plague claw

I think you can remove 1 at a time from  afar , at least those little supporting heroes