AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[boombyeyeah]

so you think that the nurgle units in this everchosen battalion count as allies? seriously i dont get it

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? <-- This is the Question, its about untits that have an other allegiance!!!

An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units (its still talk of units of an other allegiance) in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

So, only the points cost of Plaguetouched Battalion costs count as allies (140?)

I bet my Glottkin that it is like that!

last try to convince you ?

 

 

[hughwyeth]

7 minutes ago, boombyeyeah said:

so you think that the nurgle units in this everchosen battalion count as allies? seriously i dont get it

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? <-- This is the Question, its about untits that have an other allegiance!!!

An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units (its still talk of units of an other allegiance) in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

So, only the points cost of Plaguetouched Battalion costs count as allies (140?)

I bet my Glottkin that it is like that!

last try to convince you ?

Yeah re-reading it makes it unclear (surprise for GW!). Has anyone asked on the FB page? They're normally pretty quick to reply. I'm happy to do so if no-one else has?

[AaronWilson]

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? <-- This is the Question, its about untits that have an other allegiance!!!

An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

Very simply put, the warscrollbatallion allegiance is Everchosen. Your armies allegiance is Nurgle, the Warscroll batallion is of a different allegiance to the rest of the army. So the units inside the batallion count towards your ally limit. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by AaronWIlson

[hughwyeth]

Just now, AaronWIlson said:

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? <-- This is the Question, its about untits that have an other allegiance!!!

An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

Very simply put, the warscrol batallion allegiance is Everchosen. Your armies allegiance is Nurgle, the Warscroll batallion is of a different allegiance to the rest of the army. So the units inside the batallion count towards your ally limit. 

Mate everyone though the one drop/roll-off/first turn rule was simple. Turns out they meant the opposite of what they had written. GW doesn't have the best record here. 

[AaronWilson]

1 minute ago, hughwyeth said:

Mate everyone though the one drop/roll-off/first turn rule was simple. Turns out they meant the opposite of what they had written. GW doesn't have the best record here. 

Sure,  I understand that but I am explaining why RaW things like Fatesworn/Plaguesworn/Bloodtouched warband can't be used in there respective gods allegiance. If they not FAQ there FAQ to clear it up, I'll agree. 

[hughwyeth]

8 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Sure,  I understand that but I am explaining why RaW things like Fatesworn/Plaguesworn/Bloodtouched warband can't be used in there respective gods allegiance. If they not FAQ there FAQ to clear it up, I'll agree. 

Yeah absolutely. I'm still going ahead and building/painting my StD stuff. I can only imagine it doesn't apply to Plaguetouched, otherwise why give updated points to a battalion that cannot be played in matched play?

[AaronWilson]

23 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

Yeah absolutely. I'm still going ahead and building/painting my StD stuff. I can only imagine it doesn't apply to Plaguetouched, otherwise why give updated points to a battalion that cannot be played in matched play?

Because you can play the Batallion in a everchosen allegiance. 

[Tasman]

11 hours ago, boombyeyeah said:

Plaguetouched is not dead, they are clearly referring to allies in the Battalion.

Nurgle Units in this Battalion are not allies since they are... nurgle.

Please stop assuming the worst. We are nurgle. Grandfather wants us happy.

Truth

[Tasman]

11 hours ago, Arkiham said:

but the battalion isn't nurgle. the battalion is everchosen now. they removed the rule of it being changed to nurgle 

Nope. It's a MORTAL NURGLE battalion. Those are the keywords that are pertinent. Hence marked units of marauders and warriors become battleline for it.

[Tasman]

32 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Because you can play the Batallion in a everchosen allegiance. 

By your reasoning here, the only units that you'd be able to bring would be Archie, gaunt summoners and varanguard. I truly believe that NOT to be the case. PTWB will be able to be played as it has in the past, albeit at a higher cost (rightfully so)

[Avvien]

Using Plaguetouched as Allegiance: Chaos instead of Allegiance: Nurgle doesn't seem that jarring to me? I'd only really miss the artefacts of power - The wheel is nice and all but for a unit like Blightkings, Chaos has some pretty nice abilities (Like +1 to hit order, suddenly they're throwing D6 attacks on 5+ instead of 6+).

We're also getting a ton of new artefacts in Malign Sorcery, so even that loss won't hurt too bad.

Didn't people mostly play Plaguetouched as Allegiance: Chaos to begin with? Except for these past couple of months where we've had our Maggotkin tome?

[Tasman]

This is a can of worms right now that I feel is being blown out of proportion. I will play it as I always have until the FAQs prove me wrong. 

The wording is too ambiguous (gasp) for me to rearrange my approach.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Tasman

[hughwyeth]

7 minutes ago, Tasman said:

This is a can of worms right now that I feel is being blown out of proportion. I will play it as I always have until the FAQs prove me wrong. 

The wording is too ambiguous (gasp) for me to rearrange my approach.

Agreed. No point in panicking right now. I would bet they will errata this errata to clarify with plaguetouched. It's quite a unique combination that means it's likely the only, or one of the very few, battalions that have this issue as the RAW now stand. 

It also seems after the Archaon Plaguetouched lists have been so successul, a lot of people will be spamming it. Might be fun to force everyone to try something else!

Edited June 28, 2018 by hughwyeth

[TheOtherJosh]

17 minutes ago, Tasman said:

By your reasoning here, the only units that you'd be able to bring would be Archie, gaunt summoners and varanguard. I truly believe that NOT to be the case. PTWB will be able to be played as it has in the past, albeit at a higher cost (rightfully so)

Actually, per the wording of the faq, In an EVERCHOSEN Army it would be just fine.

In an EVERCHOSEN Army one would follow the Battalion... because all the units in it don’t count against the Allies allotment.

You would just end up needing to use “Grand Alliance: Chaos” Allegiance Traits.

[sal4m4nd3r]

Guys. Just let it die peacefully. 

@Tasman You do you..but Its VERY CLEAR so stop muddying the waters. And if you continue to play this with Nurgle allegiance out of stubbornness that’s not really cool at all.

 It’s an everchosen batallion. You play a Nurgle army. Therefore the points for the battalion AND the points for the units inside count against your points limit for allies..which is 400 unless changed. No Faq for the faq necessary. 

You can still run it as GA chaos. You would lose trees, summoning, Nurgle’s lores, cycle of corruption, blightkings as battleline. It’s not worth it. It was fun while it lasted.

I will miss taking the plague priest and giving my opponent +1 to wound my marauders (he picks a unit and adds 1 to the wound rolls - never specified enemy unit) and having them kick back mortal wounds on 5s. 

[AaronWilson]

38 minutes ago, Tasman said:

By your reasoning here, the only units that you'd be able to bring would be Archie, gaunt summoners and varanguard. I truly believe that NOT to be the case. PTWB will be able to be played as it has in the past, albeit at a higher cost (rightfully so)

No... as if you're playing a Everchosen allegiance army, the Everchosen batallion and the units inside aren't counted as allies, because your allegiance matches that of the batallion you're using.  

Nonetheless, like others have cleary stated that is how it works RaW. I won't continue to debate, because that's just how it is. 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

You can use plaguetouched in an everchosen list, but you can’t with a maggotkin list. 

So if you run plaguetouched, blightkings aren’t battleline, you don’t have access to nurgle summoning/artefacts/traits/cycle. 

Its dead for maggotkin lists, but far from dead overall, especially considering there’s a everchosen battletome on the way. 

[Tasman]

19 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Guys. Just let it die peacefully. 

@Tasman You do you..but Its VERY CLEAR so stop muddying the waters. And if you continue to play this with Nurgle allegiance out of stubbornness that’s not really cool at all.

 It’s an everchosen batallion. You play a Nurgle army. Therefore the points for the battalion AND the points for the units inside count against your points limit for allies..which is 400 unless changed. No Faq for the faq necessary. 

You can still run it as GA chaos. You would lose trees, summoning, Nurgle’s lores, cycle of corruption, blightkings as battleline. It’s not worth it. It was fun while it lasted.

I will miss taking the plague priest and giving my opponent +1 to wound my marauders (he picks a unit and adds 1 to the wound rolls - never specified enemy unit) and having them kick back mortal wounds on 5s. 

Whatever, dude

[Locien83]

The other thing that the new FAQ has us losing is Pestilens Battalions in a Nurgle List.

Perhaps not as widely used as Plaguetouched but the same logic applies:

Pestilens battalion so it and everything in it becomes allies, which would take it over the 400 pts of allies.

 

(Although I tend to agree that the wording is ambiguous and could be read both ways at the moment.  I think the intention is to take away things like the Everchosen Battalions from Nurgle armies, but as was shown by the roll off for first turn issue it is impossible to know what GW actually intend.)

They just need to make it clear if, when a unit is taken as part of a warscroll battalion it is that allegiance despite what ever other allegiance it may have. I am going to plan for the worst though and start looking at other options and remember the good times had with Plaguetouched.

[NurglesFirstChosen]

Do not dispair! Harbinger in a blight cyst list is STRONG! 

[sal4m4nd3r]

I have seen the artifacts for the realm of life, and there is one where in the shooting phase every unit within 9" of the bearer takes d3 mortal wounds on a 6. Thinking I could stack this with plague cyst maybe? so the blightkings get virulent discharge, then the plague cyst has the exact same mechanic but different name (horribly contagious) so that's doubling down on that. Then the Artifact (I think it's called the sunderblade), and the LoP command does some mortal woulds (21" plague squall)

I feel gut punched with ptwb gone. Grasping at straws for a gimmick or theme or some synergy. I forgot how absolutely pitiful our battalions are. LIKE LOL the blessed suns which encourages you to take lots of blightkings...and the ONLY benefits are no battleshock (gee thanks) and re-roll 1s for armor. 

Edited June 28, 2018 by sal4m4nd3r

[Gaz Taylor]

22 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Whatever, dude

Whilst I applaud you walking away from this, you could have just not replied. This comment you replied with is not really what we want on TGA, so just a gentle nudge to think a bit more about your posts in the future  

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Folks, Whilst it's quite a time of change can we make sure we do not get too carried away. Any questions about the changes, email the FAQ email - AOSFAQ@GWPLC.COM

[Tasman]

Point taken.

[Gaz Taylor]

4 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Point taken.

thanks  

@sal4m4nd3r - Now a gentle poke at you.  It's not in the spirit of TGA if you add a "HaHa" reaction to a post asking another member to watch how they are posting  

[murphs]

It's unclear regarding the Plaguetouched Warband. 

The highlighted part of the answer can be read on its own and it clearly rules out the use of the warband for Nurgle allegiance armies. If this is the case then only Grand Alliance Chaos armies can use it as Everchosen don't have the models (could be wrong here).

However in the context of the question about allies in battalions, it may not apply to PTWB because that doesn't use allies. It's for the sitatuion where you want to bring an Artillery detachment in a Free Guild allegiance army, that is clearly not possible anymore.

The former seems correct unfortunately but it needs to be clarified. Given that last week I specifically bought Chaos Knights and Blight Kings and converted up some STD heroes so that I could use this battalion I am pretty pissed off right now.