AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[peasant]

I Came across a f Luffy idea for My General, a Harbinger of Decay or Lord of afflictions, bileheart + bloated with Corruption. Imagine Guys That Against a Very killy Enemy attacks Him a makes 10 wounds, Killing him.

1. Will I Throw 20 dices causing MWs on a 4+?

2. If The same Unit Still has More Melee Weapons unused Must Attack? So All attacks are simultaneous

[Luke1705]

7 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Tempted to try allying in a Great Bray Shaman into my list (80 points), they’ll miss out on allegiance bonuses and their passive move buff will be wasted but that devolve spell looks really interesting, making an opponent move 2D6 towards you to drag them into charge range or off an objective. Any thoughts?

Forced movement on your opponent's units is literally amazing and game-changing, but the range worries me. If they're within range of the bray shaman at the start of the movement phase, then you probably are already going to make your charge. Dragging them off an objective can work but with 6" contest range on most missions, I don't really see that happening all that often.  Now if the movement buff worked on us....different story

[Euphanism]

Could someone clarify if running Foulrain Congregation (Skaven Pestilin's battalion) is legal in a Nurgle aligned army? Or would I have to bump it up to general Chaos allegiance in order to have it in there?

Edited August 2, 2018 by Euphanism

[Tasman]

This is what I think I'm running v a Seraphon list this weekend....

Allegiance: Nurgle
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Bile Blade & Doomsday Bell
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing  
- Lore of Virulence: Favoured Poxes
Verminlord Corruptor (220)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
- Lore of Virulence: Sumptuous Pestilence
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Foulness: Magnificent Buboes
Sorcerer (120)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields

Units
6 x Plague Drones (400)
3 x Plague Drones (200)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2450 / 2500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 500
Wounds: 197
 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Tasman

[5kaven5lave]

2 hours ago, Euphanism said:

Could someone clarify if running Foulrain Congregation (Skaven Pestilin's battalion) is legal in a Nurgle aligned army? Or would I have to bump it up to general Chaos allegiance in order to have it in there?

As far as I know, Warscroll Batallions from other Battletomes can be used legally BUT the Batallion itself and all the units in it count as allies, so the answer is basically no in a 2k. 

2 hours ago, Tasman said:

This is what I think I'm running v a Seraphon list this weekend....

Allegiance: Nurgle
Mortal Realm: Ulgu
Leaders
Great Unclean One (340)
- General
- Bile Blade & Doomsday Bell
- Trait: Grandfather's Blessing  
- Lore of Virulence: Favoured Poxes
Verminlord Corruptor (220)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
- Lore of Virulence: Sumptuous Pestilence
The Glottkin (420)
- Lore of Foulness: Magnificent Buboes
Sorcerer (120)
- Lore of Malignance: Blades of Putrefaction

Battleline
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
40 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields

Units
6 x Plague Drones (400)
3 x Plague Drones (200)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2450 / 2500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 500
Wounds: 197
 

Looks sweet man, let us know how it goes. 

[Euphanism]

6 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

As far as I know, Warscroll Batallions from other Battletomes can be used legally BUT the Batallion itself and all the units in it count as allies, so the answer is basically no in a 2k.

So Pestilen's are legal in a Nurgle army without being allies (because they have the Nurgle keyword), but when they become part of a battalion they have to count as allies?

No wonder my group was confused. ?‍♂️

[sal4m4nd3r]

Just now, Euphanism said:

So Pestilen's are legal in a Nurgle army without being allies (because they have the Nurgle keyword), but when they become part of a battalion they have to count as allies?

No wonder my group was confused. ?‍♂️

@5kaven5lave is incorrect. You can absolutely run your foulrain congregation in a nurgle army. No allies. See Maggotkin battletome, page 76 I believe. Middle column last paragraph.  

"A battalion can still be a part of any ALLEGIANCE that all its units have on their warscrolls." 

So as long as EVERY unit in a battalion has the nurgle keyword, the battalion (and its units) are ALLEGIANT and dont need ally rules

 

[5kaven5lave]

I really want you to be right but remember all the units in PTWB have the NURGLE keyword too and it’s basically been FAQ’d out now. If it is legal, great, I’ll have a Congregation of Filth in my list in no time. The PTWB thing has its own thread at the moment. I think the sticking point is that post FAQ the allegiance of the Batallion is Skaven Pestilens which isn’t Nurgle allegiance and is now treated as allies even though the units themselves have Nurgle keyword. Could be wrong but I was told earlier in the thread my CoF wasn’t legal. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by 5kaven5lave

[kenshin620]

4 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

@5kaven5lave is incorrect. You can absolutely run your foulrain congregation in a nurgle army. No allies. See Maggotkin battletome, page 76 I believe. Middle column last paragraph.  

"A battalion can still be a part of any ALLEGIANCE that all its units have on their warscrolls." 

So as long as EVERY unit in a battalion has the nurgle keyword, the battalion (and its units) are ALLEGIANT and dont need ally rules

 

 

 

4 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

I really want you to be right but remember all the units in PTWB have the NURGLE keyword too and it’s basically been FAQ’d out now. If it is legal, great, I’ll have a Congregation of Filth in my list in no time. The PTWB thing has its own thread at the moment. I think the sticking point is that post FAQ the allegiance of the Batallion is Skaven Pestilens which isn’t Nurgle allegiance and is now treated as allies even though the units themselves have Nurgle keyword. Could be wrong but I was told earlier in the thread my CoF wasn’t legal. 

Yes, sadly I think GW's reasoning is this

 

"If Battalion is found on Allegiance X, no matter what it is Allegiance X even if its units are also 100% part of Allegiance Y".

 

Nighthaunt are another example. Many Nighthaunt units are 100% normal units for Legions of Nagash, but their battalions are Nighthaunt and thus eats into ally points. This was put specifically in the LoN FAQ.

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

Thoughts on Tamurkhan?

[kenshin620]

2 hours ago, NoTurtlesAllowed said:

Thoughts on Tamurkhan?

The mini faction or the toad man himself?

 

I don't have him since...he'll burn a hole in my wallet!

[RatOfGod]

14 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

As far as I know, Warscroll Batallions from other Battletomes can be used legally BUT the Batallion itself and all the units in it count as allies, so the answer is basically no in a 2k.

 

14 hours ago, Euphanism said:

So Pestilen's are legal in a Nurgle army without being allies (because they have the Nurgle keyword), but when they become part of a battalion they have to count as allies?

No wonder my group was confused. ?‍♂️

 

9 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

 

Yes, sadly I think GW's reasoning is this

 

"If Battalion is found on Allegiance X, no matter what it is Allegiance X even if its units are also 100% part of Allegiance Y".

 

Nighthaunt are another example. Many Nighthaunt units are 100% normal units for Legions of Nagash, but their battalions are Nighthaunt and thus eats into ally points. This was put specifically in the LoN FAQ.

Unfortunately, this means that Foulrain cannot be taken in Nurgle under *any circumstances*, regardless of the theoretical max points of the game, because Nurgle oddly cannot take clan Pestilens as allies. As we already know (@sal4m4nd3r) from previous discussions on PTW, GW's new ruling on battalions is unequivocal: the allegiance of a Battalion is determined by the faction listed under its title, and where none is listed then the battletome it is found in. If that is different from the allegiance of the army you are taking, then the battalion cost itself and the cost of all the units contained within it counts against your allied units quota. 

Now, Nurgle's possible allies are Brayherds, Chaos Gargants, Everchosen, Khorne, Monsters of Chaos, Slaanesh, Slaves to Darkness [excluding those marked with Tzeentch], and Warherds. There is no clan pestilens on this list. Since Foulrain is a Pestilens battalion, it and its units count as allies, and since Nurgle cannot take pestilens as allies, the battalion is a no-go I'm afraid. 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by RatOfGod
(fixing multiquote)

[5kaven5lave]

Good spot man. That decides that then!!

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, RatOfGod said:

Nurgle oddly cannot take clan Pestilens as allies

Not so odd given the fluff, Nurgle isn't fond of the Horned Rat.

[RatOfGod]

2 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Not so odd given the fluff, Nurgle isn't fond of the Horned Rat.

Well, except that the fluff also has a long history of the collaboration between Nurgle and Pestilens all the way back to Lustria in the old world and continued in the early AOS campaign story. Allegiances of convenience are hardly uncommon in the lore. In any case, if it was lore-driven it would doubly strange that Pestilens could still take Nurgle as allies - that is, Nurgle choosing to support a Pestilens force rather than vice versa. I primarily meant that it's an odd situation now, and one which wouldn't have appeared previously under the old battalion rules, in which you can take all of the individual units quite happily within the Nurgle force but can't even theoretically take the battalion in a 4k+ point list or whatever you'd need on home rules for the allies quota.

[hughwyeth]

Playing a mate with Ironjawz who brings 20 brutes (!!!!)

GUO Bell/Blade/GF Blessing, ?Spell?
Chaos Sorcerer Lord w/ ?Spell?
Sorcere w/ carrion dirge, Blades of Putrefaction
Festus w/ ?Spell?

30 PBs
10 PBs
5 BKs
5 BKs
6 Drones

I've found that without Glottkin's +1 wound spell, brutes can eat through pretty much any unit (including 30 plaguebearers) in 1 or 2 rounds of combat. I'm thinking by fielding more units (30,10,5,5) instead of my usual 2x30 PBs and 1x10 BKs I might be able to manage his units more? Sorcerer Lord and Sorcerer there to buff drones and the GUO will stick near them to trigger the additional attacks. Alternatively I could drop the rotbringers sorcerer and deep strike 10 BKs with Gutrot? Or maybe get another 10 PBs in there?

 

EDIT- i also think 5 spells per turn may be overkill, so dropping some of the wizards may be worthwhile for more units?

Edited August 3, 2018 by hughwyeth

[Tasman]

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Good spot man. That decides that then!!

Yeah, it's convoluted.... you can't take a pestilens battalion with nurgle forces, BUT you CAN take pestilens units in your Nurgle force, (without naming them as allies, btw) because they share the Nurgle keyword.

[Tasman]

oops, wrong thread

Edited August 3, 2018 by Tasman

[Turragor]

So what are some nice endless spells for maggotkin? I'm making lists where all characters (bar 1) are casters and it might be nice to give them endless spell options.

I find that I like the idea of buffing or counterbuffing spells over the straight up offensive options (given their 2 sided nature).

I like the idea of balewind for say blades (to avoid dispells)?

What about shackles or perhaps maelstrom?

What are people using?

[Tasman]

6 minutes ago, Turragor said:

So what are some nice endless spells for maggotkin? I'm making lists where all characters (bar 1) are casters and it might be nice to give them endless spell options.

I find that I like the idea of buffing or counterbuffing spells over the straight up offensive options (given their 2 sided nature).

I like the idea of balewind for say blades (to avoid dispells)?

What about shackles or perhaps maelstrom?

What are people using?

The vortex is nice for the added spell and range. I like palisades if I know I'm going up against something shooty. Shackles can be handy, and cogs can be really functional but rather pricey, imo. Lots of times if it comes down to it or the CP, the CP takes it. I've shied away from using the portal..... I don't like the idea of giving my opponent a way to send damage back at me ?

[sal4m4nd3r]

I feel you are all incorrect. The FAQ people were pointing to ("killing ptwb) was dealing with battalions with two different allegiances in them, like the KO battalions with SCE in them.  It wasnt clear whether PTWB was effected by this until the FAQ answered the PTWB DIRECTLY. By all means limit your options and dont play rules as written. Pestilens battalions are still ok in a nurgle army. 

[Tasman]

42 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I feel you are all incorrect. The FAQ people were pointing to ("killing ptwb) was dealing with battalions with two different allegiances in them, like the KO battalions with SCE in them.  It wasnt clear whether PTWB was effected by this until the FAQ answered the PTWB DIRECTLY. By all means limit your options and dont play rules as written. Pestilens battalions are still ok in a nurgle army. 

I think that's right.... you can definitely put a foulrpain battalion in a Nurgle list. They all have the keyword, after all. And then, if you had enough points, you could also run say, a tallyband. The rules only state that units can't belong to more than one battalion unless the battalion itself is a requirement of another battalion (ala blessed sons)

[sal4m4nd3r]

@Tasman

Agreed. Again I will post this from our own battletome. 

[5kaven5lave]

Sweet. Well, I have 220 points left in my list so 170 for a CoF is dynamite.

[Tasman]

2 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

@Tasman

Agreed. Again I will post this from our own battletome. 

Yeah, I finally got my head around this...... I don't know why it was so hard for me to assimilate.