AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Hannibal]

3 hours ago, Grimrock said:

I've been thinking about plague drones and now you can easily stack +4 attacks on a unit if you bring a great unclean one along. Think about that, 16 attacks per model for plague drones. Or you could go +3 attacks (for a total of 13 each) and mortals on a 6 to hit, or +3 and an extra rend on all attacks. Taking a unit of 6 and launching it up the board turn one can be a legitimately terrifying alpha strike now.

Sounds good. But my experience with GW tells me that I´m NOT going to invest in a unit of 6 Drones just to get  that combo stomped after the next rules update (be it a new battletome or anything else).

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Bilepiper should be great with a Verminlord Corruptor with Fourfold Blade in Legion of Chaos Ascendant btw. He deals lots of MW and is save from retaliation in that round of combat.

BTW what if you cast that MW song on a Corruptor with Forfold Blade? Will you get D3 MW on a roll of 5 (Forfold Blade) and 2x d3 MW on a roll of 6 (Fourfold Blade and Song)? Insane.

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Hannibal

[NurgleSeb]

13 minutes ago, Homer72 said:

Sorry but I think you are wrong because the witherstave only target enemy units and not your own, isn't it?

So it will be useful.

Nope, as hurben said, one last gift triggers on 6 to hit for attack made with melee weapons that targets a friendly unit.

With the witherstave enemy units reroll hits of 6 while they are within 12" of the bearer.

I play a with both munificent and witherstave, just don't give that artifact to your general

[meatpipeline]

5 hours ago, Hannibal said:

hat if you cast that MW song on a Corruptor with Forfold Blade? Will you get D3 MW on a roll of 5 (Forfold Blade) and 2x d3 MW on a roll of 6 (Fourfold Blade and Song)? Insane.

On a roll of a 5 you get the Fourfold Blade (+D3).  On a roll of a 6 you get the Fourfold Blade (+D3), Song (+1), and Corrupter Warscroll (+1) for a total of D3 + 2.  I'm guessing that you wrote 2x D3 as a typo.

I don't think there are going to be many cases where the song makes a BIG difference with the Corrupter in  LoCA.  The reason is that the Corrupter's warscroll CA allows reroll of all hits, so you pop the CA and reroll everything that isn't a 5 or 6.  This results in a ton of mortal wounds without the need for the song.  Without the CA, the song only results in ~2 extra mortal wounds.  With the CA, the song you can expect the roll to be ~2.5 5s and ~2.5 6s.  So maybe ~3  extra mortal wounds when you would have already generated 5x D3 + 3.  It will add mortal wounds, but I don't think it will have a big effect.  With the Fourfold blade it's almost the same as adding +1 attack.

Note.... I use a quick rule for estimation: when looking for 6s, you can expect 1 for every 6 dice.  When looking for 5+, you can expect 1 for every 3 dice.  This isn't exactly the "average" value.

[meatpipeline]

I haven't seen anyone bring this up, but the new scrolls really give some interesting summoning options.  Bilepiper, Spoilpox, and Beasts all summon for 14 contagion points.  With Bilepiper / Spoilpox, you can use the summon to put them in the right place for the 14" buffs and they increase damage the turn they come out (without needing something like a charge roll).  Going forward, I would expect Nurgle Daemon lists to include a Bilepiper and attempt to summon Spoilpox on Turn 2 or include neither an attempt to summon Bilepiper on Turn 2.  Summoning has the advantage of not giving your opponent the chance to snipe your hero.

Before, if you wanted to turn contagion points into "damage" you had to summon 3 Plague Drones at 21 pts.  All the other options were defensive, because they lacked damage.  Now we have the ability to summon a single beast to get a small threat (not huge damage) likely a turn earlier due to the cost.  I don't think this will make a huge impact, but it's definitely something in the bag of tricks.  If you need to turn 5 summon to YOLO a charge that takes an enemy off of an objective, this is now the best / easiest way to do it.

The new battalion is a cheaper way for Nurgle Daemon lists to get an extra artifact.  It also allows more mix of battleline (for the battleline tax).  Both are an advantage over a Tallyband based list.  I could see using the battalion with a LoA general + Pusgoyles or a unit of BKs as the remaining battleline instead of going full PBs.  I don't think it will be competitive, but it does allow for some interesting lists.

I'll be back with some list ideas after I can tinkering around a bit...

[Hannibal]

3 hours ago, meatpipeline said:

The new battalion is a cheaper way for Nurgle Daemon lists to get an extra artifact.  It also allows more mix of battleline (for the battleline tax).  Both are an advantage over a Tallyband based list.  I could see using the battalion with a LoA general + Pusgoyles or a unit of BKs as the remaining battleline instead of going full PBs.  I don't think it will be competitive, but it does allow for some interesting lists.

I think that´s a good point. Unfortunately I do not own any Blightkings. But you´re right: You could get Blight Cyst + new battalion in the same list.

 

3 hours ago, meatpipeline said:

I'll be back with some list ideas after I can tinkering around a bit...

 

Like to see it. ;)

 

------------------------------

Regarding your musings on Fourfold Blade: You´re right, it doesn´t increase the damage output to a new level. It was just a rules question, not a tactics discussion. I thibk the "no pile in " song on a Corruptor is golden. As well as on a bunch of Beasts of Nurgle. I will try this as soon as possible.

 

[hurben]

16 hours ago, meatpipeline said:

Summoning has the advantage of not giving your opponent the chance to snipe your hero.

i like this way of thinking and the ability to create a list by including the summoning during the game

[Mikelomba]

Guys im on a discuss with my mates.

My idea is to bring 9 plague drones and buff them hard with +1 atak from great unclean

+1 rend from spoilpox and +1 atak when they are next to a daemon hero, say lord of afflix or daemon prince.

Also with the bell+drone alligance extra move+ tree, you can have 9 plague drones in the face of the enemy buffed, and with the comand abil of drone alligance, saving at 5+/4++.

I think this is posible thx to the plaguebearer key from plague drone. Correct me if im wrong.

List could look like

Spoilpox

Vilepiper

Lord of afflix

Great unclean

9 plague drones

30 plaguebearers

10 plaguebearers

10 plaguebearera

3 nurglinga

Tallyban? Also 1 drop list

[hurben]

55 minutes ago, Mikelomba said:

+1 rend from spoilpox

You can't, it's Plaguebearers keyword exclusively 

[Mikelomba]

46 minutes ago, hurben said:

You can't, it's Plaguebearers keyword exclusively 

But the drones got the plaguebearer key

[hurben]

1 minute ago, Mikelomba said:

But the drones got the plaguebearer key

Oh yeah true! I misread what you wrote, I thought about the pusgoyle 😃

[Zplash]

9 hours ago, Mikelomba said:

Guys im on a discuss with my mates.

My idea is to bring 9 plague drones and buff them hard with +1 atak from great unclean

+1 rend from spoilpox and +1 atak when they are next to a daemon hero, say lord of afflix or daemon prince.

Also with the bell+drone alligance extra move+ tree, you can have 9 plague drones in the face of the enemy buffed, and with the comand abil of drone alligance, saving at 5+/4++.

I think this is posible thx to the plaguebearer key from plague drone. Correct me if im wrong.

List could look like

Spoilpox

Vilepiper

Lord of afflix

Great unclean

9 plague drones

30 plaguebearers

10 plaguebearers

10 plaguebearera

3 nurglinga

Tallyban? Also 1 drop list

You can buff the drones. 

You just have to be wholly within 14 from your Bilepiper/scrivener at the start of combat with 9 drones running charging forward is kind of not possible even with plus3 bell an D6 run... So at least those buffs I more likely see as a turn 2 strike or countercharge turn1 if u go second. 

PS: your list is 2 drop due to lord of affliction

 

[meatpipeline]

11 hours ago, Zplash said:

You can buff the drones. 

You just have to be wholly within 14 from your Bilepiper/scrivener at the start of combat with 9 drones running charging forward is kind of not possible even with plus3 bell an D6 run... So at least those buffs I more likely see as a turn 2 strike or countercharge turn1 if u go second. 

PS: your list is 2 drop due to lord of affliction

 

I want to emphasize this.  With Plague Drones, Bilepiper and Scriviner want to be in a counter-charge list NOT an Alpha-strike list.  The wholly within ranges make it too hard to keep the buffs up on the alpha.  Even if you could, the buff pieces would then be out in the open (hard to screen) and get killed. 

The nice thing about a counter-charge list is that on turn 2, there is a possibility of having enough summoning points to drop in a Bilepiper/Scriviner exactly where they need to be.  This is how I plan on building around them anyway.

@Mikelomba With the size of Plague Drone bases I don't know if I would want to go up to 9 in a unit.  I think I would have a hard time getting them all into combat.  The max I want is units of 6.  This might be a question to ask in the Ironjaw chat, as they might have similar issues with gore-gruntas.

Still tinkering with lists, hopefully I'll settle on one I'm happy with by this weekend.

[Homer72]

22 hours ago, Mikelomba said:

Guys im on a discuss with my mates.

My idea is to bring 9 plague drones and buff them hard with +1 atak from great unclean

+1 rend from spoilpox and +1 atak when they are next to a daemon hero, say lord of afflix or daemon prince.

Also with the bell+drone alligance extra move+ tree, you can have 9 plague drones in the face of the enemy buffed, and with the comand abil of drone alligance, saving at 5+/4++.

I think this is posible thx to the plaguebearer key from plague drone. Correct me if im wrong.

List could look like

Spoilpox

Vilepiper

Lord of afflix

Great unclean

9 plague drones

30 plaguebearers

10 plaguebearers

10 plaguebearera

3 nurglinga

Tallyban? Also 1 drop list

You could also go for the Munificent Wanderes Super Battalion, you would have one drop and you could include your LoA or some Pusgoyle Blightlords and even the great Verminlord Corrupter

[Gristlegut]

Howdy Nurglings,

Starting an escalation league that will go through the summer. It will start at 1,000 moving to 1,250, 1500, then 2,000. Looking to do Thricefold at 2k but I am a bit stumped on a 1k list. The new warscrolls has me a bit confused. 

I can support a full mortal or demon list. I don't have any StD units except for Be'lakor. I also have 40 plague monks. I am sure this has been asked a million times but would love to get suggestions for a competitive 1k and how you would build it as the escalation goes by. I can supply battle reports as I go.

[Hannibal]

On 4/2/2021 at 5:00 PM, Gristlegut said:

Howdy Nurglings,

Starting an escalation league that will go through the summer. It will start at 1,000 moving to 1,250, 1500, then 2,000. Looking to do Thricefold at 2k but I am a bit stumped on a 1k list. The new warscrolls has me a bit confused. 

Do you have to use the smaller lists as part of the larger ones?

On 4/2/2021 at 5:00 PM, Gristlegut said:

I can support a full mortal or demon list. I don't have any StD units except for Be'lakor. I also have 40 plague monks. I am sure this has been asked a million times but would love to get suggestions for a competitive 1k and how you would build it as the escalation goes by. I can supply battle reports as I go.

Can not really help here. A block of 30 Plaguebearers has handed me every single win I ever had, though these were led by a GUO which means more than 600 points gone. From there, a fast hero for summoning shenanigans and a second battleline.

 

1000points also allow for a min Blightcyst battalion but I never won with an elite Nurgle army. 

 

Maybe a mixture of 2x Blightkings + Plaguemonks + heros?

[Refiasgna]

On 4/2/2021 at 5:00 PM, Gristlegut said:

Howdy Nurglings,

Starting an escalation league that will go through the summer. It will start at 1,000 moving to 1,250, 1500, then 2,000. Looking to do Thricefold at 2k but I am a bit stumped on a 1k list. The new warscrolls has me a bit confused. 

I can support a full mortal or demon list. I don't have any StD units except for Be'lakor. I also have 40 plague monks. I am sure this has been asked a million times but would love to get suggestions for a competitive 1k and how you would build it as the escalation goes by. I can supply battle reports as I go.

I played a blessed sons subfaction with harbinger of decay and 2 units of 10 blightkings and 2 units of 5 blightkings. It was super tanky for a 1000 points.

Allegiance: Nurgle

- Host of Chaos: Blessed Sons

 

Leaders

Harbinger of Decay (160)

- General

- Command Trait: Foul Conqueror

- Artefact: Blotshell Bileplate

 

Battleline

10 x Putrid Blightkings (280)

10 x Putrid Blightkings (280)

5 x Putrid Blightkings (140)

5 x Putrid Blightkings (140)

 

Total: 1000 / 1000

Extra Command Points: 0

Allies: 0 / 200

Wounds: 127

 

[Gristlegut]

20 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Do you have to use the smaller lists as part of the larger ones?

Can not really help here. A block of 30 Plaguebearers has handed me every single win I ever had, though these were led by a GUO which means more than 600 points gone. From there, a fast hero for summoning shenanigans and a second battleline.

 

1000points also allow for a min Blightcyst battalion but I never won with an elite Nurgle army. 

 

Maybe a mixture of 2x Blightkings + Plaguemonks + heros?

Hi Hannibal,

No the lists can change, just the allegiance has to stay the same.

Friday I played two casual games. First one with a 30 and 10 block of PB, 1 unit of drones, 2x beasts, Bilepiper, and a sorcerer. Here is what I noticed:

1. plague drones have to stick close to the heroes if they are going to be any good. Not having a hero with mobility hurt their potential. I like having a LoA follow them around but on a 1k list that wasn't going to work.

2. Really wanted to see how the Bilepiper performed. I was a little disappointed with the +1 attack, I know the math makes them strong, but with no rend it didn't do much. I was playing SCE. The ****** song is circumstantial and man did it work well. I was in rough spot where I needed to charge to get into the objective area but knew I was going draw in another unit on the pile in. Everyone knows that you should never trust a ******.......but that one was the best I ever had. 

3. Beasts were ok. For some reason I didn't get the chance to play the charge/retreat/charge bit.  I charged a few times but either killed the unit some other way or they retreated! Opponent avoided them. They were pretty tanky. the extra wound helped.

4. Sorcerer with Plague Squall was effective. He also helped me with the wheel.

2nd game was against KO. And a mean 1k KO. I ran the same list just this time with Spoilpox.

1. Beasts were worthless against KO.

2. the -2 to shoot freaked the opponent out. The -1 'helped too. 

3. Again the drones had to stay close in order get any buffs.....they were the preferred target in both games.

4. Just as a heads up. The KO has an ability to bottle up any Endless Spell. My opponent grabbed the Skaven 'bug zapper' WLV. It inflicts MW depending on how close you are to them while preventing you to fly, and run. That changed the game. Otherwise it would have been pretty bad. 9 casting means my sorcerer had to roll a 10 to unbind. Nope.

5. Again, Sorcerer came in handy with the Plague Squall, I had to go first. Unfortunately he spent  a 3 rounds trying to get rid of the endless spell on a 9 cast! 

Overall, I think the beasts are still interesting but I didn't get much value out of them.  I prefer the drones with  a LoA. they drew a lot of fire since they were the biggest hammer I had.

Thoughts?

Grist

[Gristlegut]

Just now, Gristlegut said:

Hi Hannibal,

No the lists can change, just the allegiance has to stay the same.

Friday I played two casual games. First one with a 30 and 10 block of PB, 1 unit of drones, 2x beasts, Bilepiper, and a sorcerer. Here is what I noticed:

1. plague drones have to stick close to the heroes if they are going to be any good. Not having a hero with mobility hurt their potential. I like having a LoA follow them around but on a 1k list that wasn't going to work.

2. Really wanted to see how the Bilepiper performed. I was a little disappointed with the +1 attack, I know the math makes them strong, but with no rend it didn't do much. I was playing SCE. The ****** song is circumstantial and man did it work well. I was in rough spot where I needed to charge to get into the objective area but knew I was going draw in another unit on the pile in. Everyone knows that you should never trust a ******.......but that one was the best I ever had. 

3. Beasts were ok. For some reason I didn't get the chance to play the charge/retreat/charge bit.  I charged a few times but either killed the unit some other way or they retreated! Opponent avoided them. They were pretty tanky. the extra wound helped.

4. Sorcerer with Plague Squall was effective. He also helped me with the wheel.

2nd game was against KO. And a mean 1k KO. I ran the same list just this time with Spoilpox.

1. Beasts were worthless against KO.

2. the -2 to shoot freaked the opponent out. The -1 'helped too. 

3. Again the drones had to stay close in order get any buffs.....they were the preferred target in both games.

4. Just as a heads up. The KO has an ability to bottle up any Endless Spell. My opponent grabbed the Skaven 'bug zapper' WLV. It inflicts MW depending on how close you are to them while preventing you to fly, and run. That changed the game. Otherwise it would have been pretty bad. 9 casting means my sorcerer had to roll a 10 to unbind. Nope.

5. Again, Sorcerer came in handy with the Plague Squall, I had to go first. Unfortunately he spent  a 3 rounds trying to get rid of the endless spell on a 9 cast! 

Overall, I think the beasts are still interesting but I didn't get much value out of them.  I prefer the drones with  a LoA. they drew a lot of fire since they were the biggest hammer I had.

Thoughts?

Grist

I guess you can't say ****** on this forum? Censor city.

[Gristlegut]

Just now, Gristlegut said:

I guess you can't say ****** on this forum? Censor city.

I was referring to the anti Pile-in song......lol

[Refiasgna]

What do you think about this list? What will you change? 1 drop army tallyband.

Allegiance: Nurgle
- Host of Chaos: Munificent Wanderers

Leaders
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)
- Artefact: Mucktalon
Great Unclean One (320)
- General
- Bile Blade & Doomsday Bell
- Command Trait: One Last Gift
- Artefact: The Endless Gift
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)

Units
1 x Beasts of Nurgle (120)
1 x Beasts of Nurgle (120)
3 x Nurglings (80)
3 x Plague Drones (190)

Battalions
Tallyband of Nurgle (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142
 

[Kasper]

Been looking at Nurgle since the recent talk about upgrades to Sloppity etc. Im wondering though.. These lists with tons of Plaguebearers, how are they gonna play compared to the Blightking spam?  From what I can see you are getting more bodies on the board, and while that has a lot of merit you will have significantly less damage output and significantly less total wounds.  So what is really the point beyond simply getting to play with some other models? Feels like you will still have the same weaknesses while not really solving any of the current issues.

[Hannibal]

17 hours ago, Kasper said:

Been looking at Nurgle since the recent talk about upgrades to Sloppity etc. Im wondering though.. These lists with tons of Plaguebearers, how are they gonna play compared to the Blightking spam?  From what I can see you are getting more bodies on the board, and while that has a lot of merit you will have significantly less damage output and significantly less total wounds.  So what is really the point beyond simply getting to play with some other models? Feels like you will still have the same weaknesses while not really solving any of the current issues.

Whenever I play with blobs of Plaguebearers I run them 30 strong, use our support to enhance their speed and sit them on objectives. with Witherstave nearby they are pretty ressilient (-1 to hit, opponent has to reroll sixes to hit,  5+, 5++) and have enough bodies to defend the objective.

Damage output is a big problem, yes. That is  why I don not really enjoy playing the faction right now.

[meatpipeline]

20 hours ago, Refiasgna said:

What do you think about this list? What will you change? 1 drop army tallyband.

Allegiance: Nurgle
- Host of Chaos: Munificent Wanderers

Leaders
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)
- Artefact: Mucktalon
Great Unclean One (320)
- General
- Bile Blade & Doomsday Bell
- Command Trait: One Last Gift
- Artefact: The Endless Gift
- Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)

Units
1 x Beasts of Nurgle (120)
1 x Beasts of Nurgle (120)
3 x Nurglings (80)
3 x Plague Drones (190)

Battalions
Tallyband of Nurgle (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142
 

I'm currently looking at similar lists, so I'll ask a few questions and provide some feedback later.  I'd like to hear your answers before I influence them with my thoughts.

- Do you see having 1 drop being significantly better than 2 or 3 drops?  Fitting everything within a Tallyband really constrains the units you can use.

- You've setup the Tallyband to get the +1 bonus to contagion points.  Do you see the extra contagion points mattering over the coarse of a game?

- What role do the Nurglings play?

- Do you have a plan for using your summoning points?

- Why no Scriviner?

 

@Gristlegut I played a 1k casual game over the weekend against Stormcast.  My list was:

Munificent Wanderers

LoA (Mucktalon)

Poxbringer (General, One Last Gift)

10x Plaguebearers

5x Blightkings

3x Plague Drones

3x Plague Drones

+1 CP

The Plague Drones + LoA were my MVP.  They are mobile, hold up to incoming damage, and with the extra attacks can do some work.  There damage goes even higher with the wheel (+1 wound), CP (reroll 1s to hit), or when I eventually include the other heralds.

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, Hannibal said:

Whenever I play with blobs of Plaguebearers I run them 30 strong, use our support to enhance their speed and sit them on objectives. with Witherstave nearby they are pretty ressilient (-1 to hit, opponent has to reroll sixes to hit,  5+, 5++) and have enough bodies to defend the objective.

Damage output is a big problem, yes. That is  why I don not really enjoy playing the faction right now.

But is that really any different than mass Blightkings? You lose some model count on objectives, but you get an okayish damage output in return. 30 Plaguebearers might as well be slapping you with pillows.

[Zplash]

19 hours ago, Kasper said:

Been looking at Nurgle since the recent talk about upgrades to Sloppity etc. Im wondering though.. These lists with tons of Plaguebearers, how are they gonna play compared to the Blightking spam?  From what I can see you are getting more bodies on the board, and while that has a lot of merit you will have significantly less damage output and significantly less total wounds.  So what is really the point beyond simply getting to play with some other models? Feels like you will still have the same weaknesses while not really solving any of the current issues.

It's kind of what you said. 

Other models I think... Now you can play daemon a little bit better on tournaments but I still think the Blightking spam is strongerand easier to play... Don't forget that you get your summoning in the Blightking list too. So you can add always plaguebearer as model count on your objectives... 

Still I'll try the daemons because I like to play some other models