AoS 2 - Maggotkin of Nurgle Discussion

[Gistradagis]

6 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

what about something like:

Allegiance: Chaos
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount (170)
Gutrot Spume (140)
Lord of Blights (140)
10 x Chaos Knights (360)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
10 x Chaos Knights (360)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
10 x Putrid Blightkings (320)
5 x Putrid Blightkings (160)
Blight Cyst (140)

Total: 2110 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 182
 

Should pick up pts from the BKs once WarComm updates.  Going for T1 charges w the knights off the Trees w additional backfield pressure from Gutrot.  I think I've covered the battalion reqs....  

With BKs being 140/500, your list sits at 2010, doesn't it?

[Deadkitten]

5 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

With BKs being 140/500, your list sits at 2010, doesn't it?

10 pt drop? 

.....

-10 BKs, + 10 Chaos Warriors & then season to taste.

Back to the question of how many BKs to make Blight Cyst worth it.  Put another way, how would you build around a core of:

2 x 10 Knights & Gutrot + 10 BKs?

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Deadkitten

[Gistradagis]

11 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

10 pt drop? 

.....

-10 BKs, + 10 Chaos Warriors & then season to taste.

Back to the question of how many BKs to make Blight Cyst worth it.  Put another way, how would you build around a core of:

2 x 10 Knights & Gutrot + 10 BKs?

 

Well, if you want the Blight Cyst, which you usually do, that already means 2 more units of BKs and a Lord of Blights, so that's a bunch of points there. You could make it like this:

2x10 Chaos Knights

Gutrot Spume

Blight Cyst with Harbinger of Decay, Lord of Blights, 10 BKs, 10 BKs, 5 BKs.

That's 2k on the nose, I believe. You can rush the enemy with the Chaos Knights and Gutrot (with a unit of BKs) while the other 2 units of BKs move onto objectives. The Harbinger of decay can either stay with the BKs if you feel you need the defensive help, or also advance with the attacking force to give your alpha strike people the FnP aura.

The only problem is that it's a 4-drop list (inevitable if you want Chaos Knights and Gutrot), so you might not be able to reliable decide on first turn for the rush. The Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount isn't bad, but it's a bit expensive if you're just interested in his command ability.

[Deadkitten]

21 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

With BKs being 140/500, your list sits at 2010, doesn't it?

So not anymore.......

[meatpipeline]

59 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

So not anymore.......

To be more clear, the STD point changes dropped.  Lots of stuff that affects us:

Knights down 20

Warriors down 10

Lord on Karkadrak down 20

Marauders up 10

Marauder Horsemen up 20

Varangard down 20

 

21 hours ago, Gistradagis said:

Well, if you want the Blight Cyst, which you usually do, that already means 2 more units of BKs and a Lord of Blights, so that's a bunch of points there. You could make it like this:

2x10 Chaos Knights

Gutrot Spume

Blight Cyst with Harbinger of Decay, Lord of Blights, 10 BKs, 10 BKs, 5 BKs.

That's 2k on the nose, I believe. You can rush the enemy with the Chaos Knights and Gutrot (with a unit of BKs) while the other 2 units of BKs move onto objectives. The Harbinger of decay can either stay with the BKs if you feel you need the defensive help, or also advance with the attacking force to give your alpha strike people the FnP aura.

The only problem is that it's a 4-drop list (inevitable if you want Chaos Knights and Gutrot), so you might not be able to reliable decide on first turn for the rush. The Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount isn't bad, but it's a bit expensive if you're just interested in his command ability.

I'd rather break one block of 10 BKs into two units of 5.  When I'm looking at this breakout... I would think there would be 3 blobs:

- Blight cyst blob (Harbinger, LoB, 10 BKs)

- Gutrot + BKs teleporting

- Chaos Knights to engage in the center objects / units

This leaves 5 BKs to stay home on objectives.  I think with this composition, you're going to be hard pressed to cover objectives.  The knights are your only fast units (assuming the harbinger is slowed down by wanting to move with the BKs).

 

[Gistradagis]

Just now, meatpipeline said:

To be more clear, the STD point changes dropped.  Lots of stuff that affects us:

Knights down 20

Warriors down 10

Lord on Karkadrak down 20

Marauders up 10

Marauder Horsemen up 20

Varangard down 20

 

I'd rather break one block of 10 BKs into two units of 5.  When I'm looking at this breakout... I would think there would be 3 blobs:

- Blight cyst blob (Harbinger, LoB, 10 BKs)

- Gutrot + BKs teleporting

- Chaos Knights to engage in the center objects / units

This leaves 5 BKs to stay home on objectives.  I think with this composition, you're going to be hard pressed to cover objectives.  The knights are your only fast units (assuming the harbinger is slowed down by wanting to move with the BKs).

 

Staying on objectives is a bad decision on every single game unless your opponent has some sort of teleporting unit. The last thing you want, especially with such a melee-focused army such as Maggotkin, is to leave a part of your army behind to play watchdog.

If you have home objectives, you abandon them. If there are neutral objectives, then you advance your BKs and leave them there, since it's what will win you the game. You'll also rarely want to stay on 3+ objectives, unless it's a mission with tons of them, in which case you'll either abandon most/all in favour of assaulting the enemy's, or stay with all your stuff on them. In either case, you lose out on activation strength if you break the BKs in units of 5. You're stronger when grouped together, in the end.

[Perry89]

Just curious does the new only negating  1 wound/mortal wound roll thing effect us in a big way? Or move along nothingto see here? 

[Deadkitten]

1 hour ago, Perry89 said:

Just curious does the new only negating  1 wound/mortal wound roll thing effect us in a big way? Or move along nothingto see here? 

Marauders with a buff off the War Shrine take a hit.

[grucha]

6 hours ago, Perry89 said:

Just curious does the new only negating  1 wound/mortal wound roll thing effect us in a big way? Or move along nothingto see here? 

It doesn't affect us that much, maybe a little bit when someone was stacking auras (like harbringer and warshrine for marauders) bot those weren't viable nurgle builds. I would even say it helps us because there many other armies which got nerfed badly that way, therefore it helps us a lot

[Perry89]

Thanks for the quick reply guys cheers.

[Zplash]

9 hours ago, Perry89 said:

Just curious does the new only negating  1 wound/mortal wound roll thing effect us in a big way? Or move along nothingto see here? 

I ve played a great tarpit with wanderers host and a unit of pusgoyle Blightlords to tag something. In addition with harbi it was14 wounds 4+ save minus 1 rend in combat and 5+FNP / 5+FNP. 

I know it was not seen often but I won some great games with that strategie. 

Now they are 10 points cheaper but without the double FNP not near as good as before. Now you can argue and send them ahead without concerning to be within 7 of harbi but without double FNP they are just too expansive for 190

Bottom line, my list took a big hit. But 90% of the nurgle list not so much I would think. 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Zplash

[Gistradagis]

7 hours ago, Zplash said:

I ve played a great tarpit with wanderers host and a unit of pusgoyle Blightlords to tag something. In addition with harbi it was14 wounds 4+ save minus 1 rend in combat and 5+FNP / 5+FNP. 

I know it was not seen often but I won some great games with that strategie. 

Now they are 10 points cheaper but without the double FNP not near as good as before. Now you can argue and send them ahead without concerning to be within 7 of harbi but without double FNP they are just too expansive for 190

Bottom line, my list took a big hit. But 90% of the nurgle list not so much I would think. 

 

You say you used them as 5+FNP / 5+FNP, then also comment on how that now is illegal. So... did you do it or not?

[Zplash]

12 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

You say you used them as 5+FNP / 5+FNP, then also comment on how that now is illegal. So... did you do it or not?

? 

Sorry if it wasn't clear in my post before. English isn't my mother tongue. 

I used them before the new rules with the double FNP. The question before was if nurgle got hit by the new rule which doesn't allow double fnp anymore. And I was stating that it only hit the pusgoyle and maybe LoA very hard for nurgle. As other comments describes I don't think it is too much an issue for marauder/warshrine/harbi combos. 

Any more questions or comments :D? 

[Gistradagis]

1 minute ago, Zplash said:

? 

Sorry if it wasn't clear in my post before. English isn't my mother tongue. 

I used them before the new rules with the double FNP. The question before was if nurgle got hit by the new rule which doesn't allow double fnp anymore. And I was stating that it only hit the pusgoyle and maybe LoA very hard for nurgle. As other comments describes I don't think it is too much an issue for marauder/warshrine/harbi combos. 

Any more questions or comments :D? 

Ooh alright, that does make more sense.

But no, I generally agree with you. I like that Blightlords are our mobile unit, and that they are somewhat resilient. But even with the 10p drop, 190p for a unit that does almost no damage? Sure, it'll last for a while, being 2 units of 7 wounds, 4+/5+++, but they won't hold objectives (2 models only, it's really easy for the enemy to take an objective from them) and won't steal them (no damage).

[boombyeyeah]

Pusgoyle Blightlords scale well with extra attacks, a glottkin and a great unclean one and you triple damage of their stingers and tocsin. 

Unfortunately Commandpoints are quite scarce with Nurgle. 

[Gistradagis]

1 hour ago, boombyeyeah said:

Pusgoyle Blightlords scale well with extra attacks, a glottkin and a great unclean one and you triple damage of their stingers and tocsin. 

Unfortunately Commandpoints are quite scarce with Nurgle. 

And that combo requires almost half of your entire list in points. And it barely matters since the blightlord's profile is still ******.

[Rangeltoft]

Quick question: If i include a Pestilent Throng in a Munificent Wanderers list, is there anything prohibiting me from giving the requierd artifact to my BoC Hero?

 

/Cheers Rangeltoft

[Zplash]

Any ideas how to counter KO with low drop and a Warp lightning vortex first turn? 

I just can't figure out what to do... If the vortex hits 3/4 of my army Blightkings or Plaguebeaeres don't matter with a move of only 4 without running (vortex forbid running within an huge bubble). Dispel with a 9+ is also very unlikely... Otherwise I need like 2 turns to get out of range with a lot of my army and after that time nearly nothing is alive and I'm way behind objectives... 

Any ideas? I was thinking about Cogs or maybe epitome to have a reroll for dispel... Don't know it bothers me that I can't come up with a good counterplay besides spread the army as wide as possible... 

[Gistradagis]

6 hours ago, Zplash said:

Any ideas how to counter KO with low drop and a Warp lightning vortex first turn? 

I just can't figure out what to do... If the vortex hits 3/4 of my army Blightkings or Plaguebeaeres don't matter with a move of only 4 without running (vortex forbid running within an huge bubble). Dispel with a 9+ is also very unlikely... Otherwise I need like 2 turns to get out of range with a lot of my army and after that time nearly nothing is alive and I'm way behind objectives... 

Any ideas? I was thinking about Cogs or maybe epitome to have a reroll for dispel... Don't know it bothers me that I can't come up with a good counterplay besides spread the army as wide as possible... 

Spread your troops well so that the lightning doesn't immobilize your entire army. Second, what kind of army are you running? Mortals/Daemons have different ways to deal with this, although with different success.

[Zplash]

3 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

Spread your troops well so that the lightning doesn't immobilize your entire army. Second, what kind of army are you running? Mortals/Daemons have different ways to deal with this, although with different success.

Have different lists in tetsint currently most likely a mixed wanderers list with a blight cyst core and LoA and one unit of Pusgoyles to provide the minus rend debuff to support the 25/30 BKs.

But in this list no GUO or Gutrod so no real chance to deal with vortex and its a 6 drop

[Deadkitten]

7 minutes ago, Zplash said:

But in this list no GUO or Gutrod so no real chance to deal with vortex and its a 6 drop

Gutrot seems like almost an auto-include for BK spam.  That kind of mobility is huge in a lot of situations. 

[Zplash]

6 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

Gutrot seems like almost an auto-include for BK spam.  That kind of mobility is huge in a lot of situations. 

I felt that good players don't let you deepstrike behind them so only at the sides a deepstrike is possible and then without a charge roll of 8 they are lost 1 turn without helping objectives or something. CP for reroll charge is expensive in that kind of list with harbi. So I decided I use pusgoyle for mobility shenanigans and blocking etc. 140 points is so expensive for that kind of restricted deep dive in my eyes. If there were not the board edge restriction it would be great. 

 

Edit: in case of KO of course gutrod is a good pick but not sure if he is in a alround list. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Zplash

[Gistradagis]

38 minutes ago, Deadkitten said:

Gutrot seems like almost an auto-include for BK spam.  That kind of mobility is huge in a lot of situations. 

Gutrot is a big trap. His "mobility" is horribly limited (must be on your first turn, must be from a side of the board and over 9" from the enemy), and the impossibility of stacking any kind of charging buffs means that you're crossing your fingers you'll roll above average on the charge more often than not, which are bad odds.

More often than not, either Gutrot or the unit of BKs (or both) will fail the charge, and they'll proceed to get destroyed in the following turn.

50 minutes ago, Zplash said:

Have different lists in tetsint currently most likely a mixed wanderers list with a blight cyst core and LoA and one unit of Pusgoyles to provide the minus rend debuff to support the 25/30 BKs.

But in this list no GUO or Gutrod so no real chance to deal with vortex and its a 6 drop

Well, there you have your problem haha. If you make a list that has a lot of drops and no way to increase your mobility/play around deployment, then there's no solution whatsoever, since you make that choice at list building.

[grucha]

50 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

Gutrot is a big trap. His "mobility" is horribly limited (must be on your first turn, must be from a side of the board and over 9" from the enemy), and the impossibility of stacking any kind of charging buffs means that you're crossing your fingers you'll roll above average on the charge more often than not, which are bad odds.

More often than not, either Gutrot or the unit of BKs (or both) will fail the charge, and they'll proceed to get destroyed in the following turn.

Well, there you have your problem haha. If you make a list that has a lot of drops and no way to increase your mobility/play around deployment, then there's no solution whatsoever, since you make that choice at list building.

I wouldnt agree. I play gutrot with 20 blightkings and they do amazing things. Charge turn 1 is not difficult - simply use chronomantic cogs and have extra cp for potential charge re roll. Charge with gutrot first, if you roll 7 or more - great, if not - it doesnt matter that much. Then charge with 20 blightkings, with +3 charge you need to roll 6 or more. With re roll it will work around 80% times.

[Warbossironteef]

Sorry if this is a common question, but would anyone be willing to help a new Nurgle player out? I'm looking to convert my old GW Wyldwoods into Gnarlmaw Trees.

Would anyone be able to give me some rough measurements of the base of the Gnarlmaw or a size comparison to the old woods? I know I will have to beef up the base and obviously give it a mouth