AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[RUNCMD]

4 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

I actually like that he is the same and that GW has been going that route lately. AoS has avoided having you spend points on upgrades (everything has always been free), and so many old warscrolls all cost the same points if you takes those upgrades (including mounts) or not. Lately they have been making you pay for that mobility on those characters with separately costed warscrolls.

At this point you can more or less imagine it as: a Magister costs 100 points, you may upgrade him to be mounted on a Disk of Tzeentch for +40 points.

Also, I hate the exclusive box set models (especially crammed into a box with multiple armies). One of my biggest pet peeves with their current business model.

Your point about the exclusive box being a pet peeve is very true, it was one of mine as well, then I forced myself to live with it and accept it as their default way of operating but then to see them reverse that and go back on what they were pushing... idk... for me just seems weird and also annoying because I got hyped being in the mindset of "Okay this new hero is going to bring some really interesting rules", only to be let down... my own fault I guess for having those sorts of expectations, and also i'll admit I am bitter about it and not contributing in a constructive manner atm, but hey figured I'd ask.

[Malakithe]

@Gwendar just saw this on FB lol needs tweaking but kinda nuts 

Eternal Conflagration+Changehost

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

Exalted Flamer 100

Exalted Flamer 100

Exalted Flamer 100

10 Pinks 200

10 Pinks 200

Lord of Change 360

Changehost 180

Tome of Eyes 40

2000pt on the dot... 

[Neffelo]

3 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

@Gwendar just saw this on FB lol needs tweaking but kinda nuts 

Eternal Conflagration+Changehost

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

Exalted Flamer 100

Exalted Flamer 100

Exalted Flamer 100

10 Pinks 200

10 Pinks 200

Lord of Change 360

Changehost 180

Tome of Eyes 40

2000pt on the dot... 

Lord of Change is 380, so you are 20 pts over. 

[Malakithe]

12 minutes ago, Neffelo said:

Lord of Change is 380, so you are 20 pts over. 

Like I said will need tweaking. I just saw it on the FB group and thought to share since people are thinking of something similar. 

I might go that route but with obvious changes...or something with heavy Acolytes. Or flood the table with Horrors

[Ergo Proxy]

Lord of change (380) - forced command trait and +1 to wound artefact

Herald on foot (110) - forced artefact

Exalted Flamer (100)

6 x flamers (240)

6 x flamers (240)

3 x flamers (120)

3 x flamers (120)

10 pinks (200)

10 pinks (200)

Balewind (40)

Umbral Portal (70)

Changehost (180)

conflag Coven

Go first and fling pinks up as screens with locus and in range for BS immunity while flamers move up and pick off hammers with herald on Baldwind with 2 D6 mortal spells at 24inch and firestorm through portal for (average) 6 mortals into key pieces like casters with teleport. Pinks and flamers within LoC and exalted for buffs. 
 

Flame on!

Edited January 5, 2020 by Ergo Proxy

[RUNCMD]

28 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

@Gwendar just saw this on FB lol needs tweaking but kinda nuts 

Eternal Conflagration+Changehost

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

3 Flamers 120

Exalted Flamer 100

Exalted Flamer 100

Exalted Flamer 100

10 Pinks 200

10 Pinks 200

Lord of Change 360

Changehost 180

Tome of Eyes 40

2000pt on the dot... 

Solid! But LOC = 380 still if I saw right in the new tome.

 

Edit - disregard as someone else called it out, I was just too slow.

Edited January 5, 2020 by RUNCMD
reasons

[AverageBoss]

So are burning chariots still considered bad? I have not seen anyone really talk about them at all. Have 2 that have been gathering dust since I got them sadly.

[Sinfullyvannila]

1 hour ago, Jaskier said:

From what I could make out from a blurry picture, the Pink Horrors' spell gives them +1 to-hit with all their attacks.

Yeah the Changeling seems like a no-brainer if you want an efficient wizard choice, it's 10 points more than a Changecaster (Herald on foot) for a guaranteed extra cast and unbind each turn, regardless of whether you use its' other special rules. Fateweaver being a 3 cast/unbind Lord of Change with a spell that does flat 6 mortal wounds at the top bracket (and some various other buffs, i.e. the free auto-dispel, boosted combat stats, etc) with the offset of not manipulating any dice roll you want seems like an overall buff, right? 400 points is steep but I'm certainly considering running it whereas before I had next to zero interest.

Changeling deepstrikes too, right? So you can save deepstriking him until you have enough Fate Points to summon something else and use him to summon in enemy territory.

[Sinfullyvannila]

22 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

So are burning chariots still considered bad? I have not seen anyone really talk about them at all. Have 2 that have been gathering dust since I got them sadly.

I don’t know about BCs, but Exalted Flamers are good for buffing other flamers. So worst case; scenario you could take them off your chariots.

[Hebroseph]

4 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Changeling deepstrikes too, right? So you can save deepstriking him until you have enough Fate Points to summon something else and use him to summon in enemy territory.

From what I understand, the deepstrike has to happen on the first turn, so i guess if you were confident you could get 9 fate on the first turn, then have him appear in their backfield and then summon a LoC. 

There is no rule that states he has to be in THEIR deployment.  There is nothing stopping you from deploying him midfield near an objective where he can't get charged the first turn, and then drop a unit of pink horrors infront of him from the changehost so he can provide the Locus for minus 1.  

Hes also just a great 2 cast 2 dispel caster for a bargain price. Keep him in the back and use his negatives to protect your back field from units trying to come in that way. I think throwing him into the enemy back field, is just wasting 120 points. 

[Malakithe]

15 minutes ago, Hebroseph said:

From what I understand, the deepstrike has to happen on the first turn, so i guess if you were confident you could get 9 fate on the first turn, then have him appear in their backfield and then summon a LoC. 

There is no rule that states he has to be in THEIR deployment.  There is nothing stopping you from deploying him midfield near an objective where he can't get charged the first turn, and then drop a unit of pink horrors infront of him from the changehost so he can provide the Locus for minus 1.  

Hes also just a great 2 cast 2 dispel caster for a bargain price. Keep him in the back and use his negatives to protect your back field from units trying to come in that way. I think throwing him into the enemy back field, is just wasting 120 points. 

I think the new warscroll says in their deployment zone 9" away from enemy models

[AverageBoss]

Too bad all the warscroll links on the GW site are still broken.

[Hebroseph]

Well that is disappointing, but it does state Territory, not deployment zone which for some missions is a huge difference. That still lets them deploy 23 inches away from their board edge on a lot of missions, and almost midfield. 

He is a Daemon Hero, so his locus would affect himself, making him -2 to hit vs the unit he targets with his ability, and if you were reasonably sure you would get first turn I could see him dropping in on a flank where only one unit could reach him

 

The deepstrike is still "Can" not "Must" so at the end of the day, you could just run him as a 2 cast/dispel unit to chunk out endless spell and one lore spell each turn for 120 points with a debuff that "may" come into play when the enemy is tarpit in the pink horror unit right in front of him. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Hebroseph
Timing issues.

[Hebroseph]

12 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

I think the new warscroll says in their deployment zone 9" away from enemy models

Just double checked, you were half right. It is in their "Territory" and more than 3" away from the enemy. His abilities trigger on 9" range so you would want to be closer than 9 if you planned on going into their side of the field. 

[mmimzie]

8 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

I don’t mind that LoC only has 2 casts. I’m probably only going to summon him in guild of Summoners, and pay the points for Kairos.

Kairos is abit better now but only in that now his damage table is flat 6 bringing him to where infernal gateway is. 

That said i give it to the LoC if for no other reason that a bonus -1 to hit from feather charm (getting to -2 to hit in melee?? -1 to shooting) or other artifacts like eternal amulets, his command ability being a summoning and damage force multiplyer, and his ability to fit into the good Battalions. 

Infernal gate way off the pop is average 6 mortal wounds that's pretty beefy. 

This combines to a model that can teleport up close turn 1 throw out 6 mortals to break an important enemy hero, and then  lay a pendulum down the vitals of an enemy army or a purple sun (which is more likely as it sure up some of our anti horde power).  


Also Kairos lost the thing that had him taken before. His oracle no longer works on fold reality.  It's not just 1 free 1 or 6 destiny die which was big with enlightend.  I don't think he's bad, but i saying more recognize he's goals are to be a buffed caster with psuedo +1 to cast and who bring +1 destiny die to the game. He'll definitly want spell portal. 

Personally i prefer the LoC he can do more and be a start in more ways, From being only summoned  which make them alittle slow as they won't start doing stuff til lthe next turn, as force multipliers to your casting army, or as power house sneaky rogue assassin pieces. 

[Paniere]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

Kairos is abit better now but only in that now his damage table is flat 6 bringing him to where infernal gateway is. 

That said i give it to the LoC if for no other reason that a bonus -1 to hit from feather charm (getting to -2 to hit in melee?? -1 to shooting) or other artifacts like eternal amulets, his command ability being a summoning and damage force multiplyer, and his ability to fit into the good Battalions. 

Infernal gate way off the pop is average 6 mortal wounds that's pretty beefy. 

This combines to a model that can teleport up close turn 1 
 

Would be lovely but LoC  can not teleport via changehost

[Nizrah]

Do you guys think that T part of new box will be good starter for new T player?

[Hebroseph]

3 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Do you guys think that T part of new box will be good starter for new T player?

Nope, not really. It only has one battle line unit (conditionally) in the screamers, and the Enlightened are decent, but expensive for beginner games. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

54 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Do you guys think that T part of new box will be good starter for new T player?

 

50 minutes ago, Hebroseph said:

Nope, not really. It only has one battle line unit (conditionally) in the screamers, and the Enlightened are decent, but expensive for beginner games. 

Just on its own; no. But it along with a box of acolytes would be pretty decent.

 

2 Start Collectings boxes are the way to go though. Gotta unfortunately buy 4 boxes of blues and brims to take advantage of Pinks. Because Tzeentch hates your wallet.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[RoloMcFury]

Anyone able to confirm how many attacks each version of Horrors gets? It’s the one clutch value I can’t quite make out in any review I’ve seen. 

The unit has had one of the most drastic changes I’ve ever seen in warhammer. A 50 wound shooty unit is just... weird 

 

Edit- nevermind, looks like it's 3 for Pinks, 2 for Blues, and 1 for Brimstones. That is a LOT of shooting. A 20 man Pink Blob could be reallllly nasty with all the buffs, especially if you've got a "1" fate die or two to use for battleshock to cover the losses. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by RoloMcFury
Found information requested

[GeneralZero]

2 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

3 hours ago, Nizrah said:

Do you guys think that T part of new box will be good starter for new T player?

 

3 hours ago, Hebroseph said:

Nope, not really. It only has one battle line unit (conditionally) in the screamers, and the Enlightened are decent, but expensive for beginner games. 

Just on its own; no. But it along with a box of acolytes would be pretty decent.

 

2 Start Collectings boxes are the way to go though. Gotta unfortunately buy 4 boxes of blues and brims to take advantage of Pinks. Because Tzeentch hates your wallet.

Reading you guys, DoT seems to favor the daemons more than the mortals. But until I read the book, I'm confident that a tzaangors army can do some nice things.  That is what I'm aiming to (especially also because I like the mini AND I can play them in 40K TS).

Now, another way to answer the firts question: "Do you guys think that T part of new box will be good starter for new T player?" I just have for DoT some daemons princes, a LoC and 60 tzaangors. What did  I do yesterday? Order 3 (yes three) aether war boxes. Do some math: the DoT half is 54€, sell just one hero (easy at 25€) and you are at 54*3-25 = 137 (or even 112 if sell 2 heros). For 112eur you have 1 good hero (can be magnetized on foot or on disc!), 18 enlighten/skyfire and 9 screamer! that is just awesome. Just complete it with one or two SC and/or a LoC, you have an army more than bad.  This is a super cheap way of starting armies, and I like that. Same goes for KO. And you know what? seeing how good the KO part is (especially the superb hero) you can sell the KO half even higher making your DoT even cheaper.

PS: remember also that you got some nice hero (multi build on disc/chariot/foot) in the SC and you can even kitshat a bit some tzangoors on disc to make a shaman on disc!!

Edited January 5, 2020 by GeneralZero

[ArgyBargy]

Omnicient Oracles list that can work?

ive played Nurgle Thricefold, Khorne Tyrants, and 4 keepers in Slaanesh. Looking at getting a greater daemon army for Tzeentch with the new book.

[Malakithe]

22 minutes ago, ArgyBargy said:

Omnicient Oracles list that can work?

ive played Nurgle Thricefold, Khorne Tyrants, and 4 keepers in Slaanesh. Looking at getting a greater daemon army for Tzeentch with the new book.

Is that battalion in the new book?

[ArgyBargy]

6 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Is that battalion in the new book?

Sure is

[PONCHOGRANDE]

2 hours ago, ArgyBargy said:

Omnicient Oracles list that can work?

ive played Nurgle Thricefold, Khorne Tyrants, and 4 keepers in Slaanesh. Looking at getting a greater daemon army for Tzeentch with the new book.

Multiple Lords of Change suffer from a lot of their value being tied to Infernal Gateway and Beacon of Sorcery. Perhaps you can do some fun things with Endless Spell spam to take advantage of their new auto dispel to recast them on new targets or use Omnscient Oracles rerolls with some combat buffs and swords to beef up your CC damage output.

Is it any good? Probably not. At the very least, an Omnscient Oracles list run as The Guild of Summoners would be hilarious. That’s a whole lot of chicken.

As a separate rules question, is there anything stopping someone from casting say, Darkfire Daemonrift, dispelling it, and casting it again with a different wizard? As far as I’m aware Endless Spells don’t explicitly share the usual restrictions for spells, save that you can’t cast it if you already have the model on the field. However I don’t have the book on me, so I might be missing something obvious.

Edited January 5, 2020 by PONCHOGRANDE