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On 11/20/2019 at 2:32 PM, Paniere said:

I had my first tournament last weekend. My changehost went pretty well considering  my greatest opponent  has been the time limit.  I went through 4 units swaps, 11 spells, then movement phase, summoning and  shooting with everything, numbers increasing with summoning. This was very time consuming and in 2 out of 3 games I couldn't play more than 2 turns. Consequently I drew one, won one by 1 point and lost one by 1 point. In the long term I probably would have ended winning them all considering my heroes were full life and had plenty of summoning options. How do you deal with speeding up your game? Andy hints and tips very appreciated thanks :)

1) practice

2) use a cheat sheet like aos reminders.com

3) practice 

At a tournament you owe it to your opponent to be able to complete your games on time, so if you're going to take a list like changehost you need to practice the hell out of it so you can make your decisions quickly and give your opponents fu games

Edited by Carnelian
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Some other random thoughts I've had... Horrors losing a save is actually less relevant than people think thanks to Brimstones now also getting a 6+ save (so from a unit of 10 Pinks, 10 of your woun

My first tournament I had issues but I have now made several changes and now I don’t have any real issues with time anymore. My last two tournaments I had no issues with my time, but since we used che

I have 6 counts as Spawns via Wyrds Stalking Portals. Great option for anyone looking to add to and diversify their spawn models imo.  

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On 11/20/2019 at 7:31 AM, Keilerei said:

Hi. I want to start a Tzeentch army next  year. And I am not sture if the models I like are competitve. I love  the Tzangors and I want to go range heavy. So skyfires, acolythes, Support heros and magic. I absolutely dispise the Horrors, flamer etc. models. I heard changehost is strong and u always should take pinks, but I cant stand them. I am not a super competitve Player, but I would  like to know weither I can leave them out and probably miss on summoning, and still use the Potential of the tzangors?

Enlightened are definitely competitive. 

Skyfires and Tzaangors have fallen behind the top curve but are still good for most games. 

If you're desperate to be top level competitive, there are rumours of a new Tzeentch book early next year so prob best to hold off. 

But if you're happy being mid tier (I. E. going win 2- lose 3 at events or 3-2 if you're lucky) then get painting all that Tzaangor trim! 😅 

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My first tournament I had issues but I have now made several changes and now I don’t have any real issues with time anymore. My last two tournaments I had no issues with my time, but since we used chess clocks one time my opponent timed out.

This is what I do:

  1. I have a homemade cheat sheet. First page is setup reminders, movement rates, shooting profiles, and CC profiles. Second page are all spells structured so its really easy to read and see.

  2. I use counters for spells casted. I have several coins that I place next to a model when they succefully cast a spell, and another when they fail. That way its easy to see what have been done, and what is left and its also easy to count summoning points afterwards.

  3. I have a 2 dicepools of 10 dice each in different colors. So if I cast Infernal Gateway I just pick up all my red and then remove one dice. I don’t have to count 9 dice.

  4. I prepare my summoning pools. I have all my blue horrors on a magnetic tray, when my opponent kill say 5 pink horrors I immediately take 10 from the tray and place them somewhere where they are not in the way (usally a corner of the table). Sometimes I can have 5-6 groups of 10 blue horror already prepared for setup.

  5. I have all my endless spells on a tray, a spell is ALWAYS on the tray or summoned, that way I always within seconds now what spells are available to cast...

  6. Measuring sticks, several 3 and 9 and atleast one that is 12.

  7. I try to be organized at the table. I TRY to constantly clean up my play area, collect dice and put them in groups, remove measuring sticks.

  8. I do as much work as possible in my opponents turn, think about your next move, organize stuff... or even just drinking water.

  9. I write down the values for my summoning points on papper with numbers, not tally marks (or “lines”) so there is no risk for confusion and also I have a record of what has been going on.

  10. Use a separate dice pool, that has a different size and color, for destiny dice. I roll them into a box on the side of the table and I also take a photo of the dice pool if ANYTHING happens to it.

  11. When a game is completed I always collect my things and organize them in the same way. Summoning pool on one tray, spells and characters in one, battleline in a box. I also have a sorting tray with my dice, measuring sticks, counters, coins, objective markers, laser pointer and so on so its easy to find everything once I start. I also put all things like larger measuring sticks, pen and papper, rulers, cheat sheets and so on in the same pockets on my bag so I always find them fast.

  12. I always try to print out the scenarios, agendas, rules pack, whatever before the tournament so I have them handy. I try to find time to read them before the tournament and also between rounds.

  13. I make sure to set up “my battle” in the Warhammer app with the warscrolls im using. Even with a cheat sheet I will need to reference them sometime and I don’t want to clog the cheat sheet with to much info.  

My general advice otherwise would be:

  • Use a chess clock when you play casual games. You should be able to finish a game in half of the game time, make sure that you only use half of the game time.

  • Don’t panic if you use 30minutes for turn one, that is normal.

  • Use a chess clock at the tournament if the tournament allows it. You don’t have any time to give away, you need your half of the game time. Its always nice to atleast be able to say with confidence to yourself that  “It was not my fault that we could not finish”.

  • Train with your army and resist to do to many changes between games, if you have an acceptable list only make small changes over time. A list that you know is always better than a list that is unknown.

  • Think about your personal needs to stay sharp, because you don’t have any real time to give away by being confused J  I prioritize taking a short walk outside alone very high, after that I can be social and go inside and check games, talk to people and so on, but first for me, reset my brain. Find the things you need to stay sharp.

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What is your opinion on Screamers? I have been lingering in the hobby for a long time but never played many games and never vs serious opponents. I have begun changing that and got stomped at a local event a few weeks back. I only hear hate towards the models and their role on the battlefield but in my experience they have been stellar. Screening my herald on disc while -1 to hit. Getting to a objective with a 16" move + a CP run of 6".  Sacrificing them up the board as a road block or trapping a shooting unit in combat. 

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I love the Ogroid Thaumaturge and Gaunt Summoner.

Do you think getting the Silver Tower and Eyes of the Nine gives you some useful figures to start towards a 1000 points list?

Contents:

Gaunt Summoner
Ogroid Traumaturge
Magister (from Eyes)

8x Familiars
17x Tzaangors (Beastmen) (1 in eyes, 10 because I have 10 others)
10x Kairic Acolytes (2 in Eyes)
2x Pink Horrors
5x Blue Horrors (1 in Eyes)
5x pairs of Brimstone Horrors (1 in Eyes)

Options would be to craft discs to change a few Tsaangors into skyfires or shaman, changing Vortemis into a Tsaangor, and I am not adverse to getting a few more boxes. I do particularely like the Ogroid Thaumaturge and Gaunt Summoner, so if I can keep using those, I would love that. Is this list still a valid one?

  • Gaunt Summoner (General)
  • Ogroid Thaumaturge
  • 10 Tzaangors (Battleline)
  • 10 Kairic Acolytes (Battleline)
  • 3 Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc
  • 3 Tzaangor Skyfires

This leaves 50 points, which could be used to change the enlightned to skyfires, or to put a disc under the gaunt summoner and an endless spell.

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I started AoS and Tzeentch for these same reasons, but I ended up loving the demon face and nowadays I only use the GS+changhehost. With your list you will have a fun intro into the AoS DoT mechanics but you will realize soon that you aren't exploiting its magical potential at all, being unable to cast enough spells and moreover lacking all the summoning models

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I've been thinking on something like this:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Gaunt Summoner (160)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
- Artefact: Alchemical Chain
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Tzaangors (480)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (320)

Battalions
Tzaangor Coven (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 137
 

The idea is simple, big blob of Tzaangors with Tzaangor Coven. As the bases are 32mm, it's hard to pile in everything, so maybe deploying them in 2 large lines would be interesting. They are supported by skyfires with a shaman with shield of fate for the blob. Of course enlightened can't miss the party, so there is the principal damege output.  There's also a great-bray shaman for speeding up tzaangors and attracting enemy units to them, and a curseling with alchemical chain (+1 spell to unbind) and arcane suggestion for making enemies dizzy.

Of course backline there's the gaunt summoner surounded with pinks for classical arcane sacrifice+balewind vortex, and 5 chaos warriors for objetives purposes. What do you think?

Edited by DarrinTheOccult
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On 11/27/2019 at 1:46 PM, DarrinTheOccult said:

I've been thinking on something like this:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Gaunt Summoner (160)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
- Artefact: Alchemical Chain
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Great-Bray Shaman (100)
- Allies

Battleline
30 x Tzaangors (480)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Warriors (90)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (320)

Battalions
Tzaangor Coven (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 137
 

The idea is simple, big blob of Tzaangors with Tzaangor Coven. As the bases are 32mm, it's hard to pile in everything, so maybe deploying them in 2 large lines would be interesting. They are supported by skyfires with a shaman with shield of fate for the blob. Of course enlightened can't miss the party, so there is the principal damege output.  There's also a great-bray shaman for speeding up tzaangors and attracting enemy units to them, and a curseling with alchemical chain (+1 spell to unbind) and arcane suggestion for making enemies dizzy.

Of course backline there's the gaunt summoner surounded with pinks for classical arcane sacrifice+balewind vortex, and 5 chaos warriors for objetives purposes. What do you think?

 

I use a similar list all the time. I tend to sacrifice the third character for 9 enlightened and use acolytes to fill out battleline requirements. Plus I've been taking Felhoof instead of a normal bray shaman lately. His spell is an absolute godsend vs other murder units. It does bring my character count dangerously low but you have a lot more bodies to block with.

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14 hours ago, Humanatee said:

 

I use a similar list all the time. I tend to sacrifice the third character for 9 enlightened and use acolytes to fill out battleline requirements. Plus I've been taking Felhoof instead of a normal bray shaman lately. His spell is an absolute godsend vs other murder units. It does bring my character count dangerously low but you have a lot more bodies to block with.

Yeah, 3 enlightened help a lot in terms of security, but the curseling can be really good dispelling and that extra 2 spells to the list gives much more summoning options to the list. Probably it's a matter of personal choice 🤣

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image.png.18481fe5d286ed9d7366cba8378d3dda.png

Looks like changehost can make some really crazy combos with this new Slaves to Darkness endless spell. The Gaunt Summoner on Disc will have the StD keyword to cast it, along with 10 free pink horrors and a nerfed version of infernal flames.

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I was real excited to see the return of the Fatesworn warband, but it seems to let you make one unit with >9 models in it a wizard that can cast 1 unbind 1 and knows a unique spell that worsens an enemy unit's rend by 1 and.... that's it. For requiring 1 hero + 9 mortal tzeentch units, that's real disappointing.

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Hey all, i've had the battleforce that came out a couple years ago for a while now and I'm only now deciding to actually make the army. Just had a question regarding the rules since it's a pre 2.0 tome, do i need the tome and the generals handbook or am i better off waiting for a new/updated tome?

Cheers.

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4 hours ago, SilentSentinel said:

Hey all, i've had the battleforce that came out a couple years ago for a while now and I'm only now deciding to actually make the army. Just had a question regarding the rules since it's a pre 2.0 tome, do i need the tome and the generals handbook or am i better off waiting for a new/updated tome?

Cheers.

The General's Handbook doesn't have anything for the Tzeentch allegiance in, although if you're wanting to play Matched Play you'll need it for the points and missions etc.

At the moment you'll need the Battletome and then the FAQ. Quite a few of the units/spells/artefacts etc in the book have been changed and updated in the FAQ along with the explanation on how Fate Points are generated and what the summoning rules and costs are. Hopefully that helps :)

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42 minutes ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

The General's Handbook doesn't have anything for the Tzeentch allegiance in, although if you're wanting to play Matched Play you'll need it for the points and missions etc.

At the moment you'll need the Battletome and then the FAQ. Quite a few of the units/spells/artefacts etc in the book have been changed and updated in the FAQ along with the explanation on how Fate Points are generated and what the summoning rules and costs are. Hopefully that helps :)

Awesome cheers, yeah that definitely helps.

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The summoner was already amazing at 180. Now he gets a disk and 10 pink horrors for only +80 points And the fires spell while on a disk for extra mobility. Seems excellent.

I see some people trying out 3 gaunt summoners and it being pretty broken......

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My concern with lots of summoners is the large drop count increasing the chance of getting alpha strike'd hard. But I suppose with enough cheap screens to defend against that it's a pretty good force multiplier! I'm going to take 1 Gaunt along with Changehost in my list because the value he adds is great for the points and it lets me use the Darkfire Daemonrift endless spell which is basically made for Tzeentch.

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2 hours ago, Frowny said:

The summoner was already amazing at 180. Now he gets a disk and 10 pink horrors for only +80 points And the fires spell while on a disk for extra mobility. Seems excellent.

I see some people trying out 3 gaunt summoners and it being pretty broken......

Infernal Flames getting nerfed to be 5+ and 12" does really hurt the primary function of horde-killer, but I agree that a free 10 pinks can't be understated in a Tzeentch list... 3 spells for 260 points is crazy good. 

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