AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[AverageBoss]

12 hours ago, Argonoch said:

The silver tower errata on the warhammer website is dated July 2018, whilst the warscroll on the app is January 2019, so would that not mean the App would be the one that is used?

The app is more of an army building tool than an accurate rules reference. FAQ and books override it.

[Barteh]

I've been struggling to come up with a 1250 list for a tournament coming up. I was wondering what people thought about the following;

LEADERS

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) - General - Command Trait : Arcane Sacrifice - Artefact : Paradoxical Shield - Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch

Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Change : Fold Reality

UNITS

10 x Tzaangors (180) 

10 x Tzaangors (180) 

10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)

6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)

ENDLESS SPELLS 

Balewind Vortex (40)

 

Gameplan is fairly basic, sit back with the Gaunt summoner on balewind & pink horrors, sacrificing them each turn to build up points to summon blue horrors. Tzaangors can move up in a nice big blob if there's a reason to, or sit back for a counter-charge. 

It just feels like everything we can field is so squishy for how expensive it is. What do people think about 2x10 Tzaangors vs 1x20? I feel like you lose flexibility and some minor MW output from the banners in favor of potentially keeping the +1 attacks slightly longer, but I also think that Tzaangors are essentially meant to get the charge and destroy, not get stuck in prolonged combat. I dunno, can't seem to find something that just seems solid.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Barteh

[MitGas]

Yeah, we are squishy. There is no way to go toe to toe with an elite CC army such as Ironjawz without the help of tactics/magic. Chaos Warriors can tank but can't dish out enough damage (why are they so sucky now?). Horrors are useless outside of their spells but maybe my dice just hate me - I do find shooting to be highly overrated though;  4+/4+ looks pretty good but if the enemy has 2 wounds and a good save, it suddenly doesn't work well. Enlightened do work though. I can't say wether Tzaangors would work, as I haven't used them but with Shield of Fate they might be good ( then again, I use SoF on my Enlightened).

So yeah, spam MW, go in with Enlightened and make sure you split their army/hinder them from having multiple units kill your Enlightened in one turn. Prismatic Palisade, shackles, horrors as roadblocks, you name it. Gaunt Summoneron on  BWV can reduce huge units by almost half if you're lucky with the rolls. I've used a Vortex Beast with some measure of success - instantly draws attention to itself, so it's a great distraction but can only be used as such.

I feel like Tzeentch is an army that actually needs a devious plan, especially if you just play "who stands last wins". But to illustrate my point further: A single Megaboss on foot killed 20 blue horrors and 20 brimstone horrors (10 bases) by himself and got a single wound from them. The roadblock worked, so he never got to kill something important but shooting and CC from horrors is kinda useless.

Nerf the spells and Enlightened and Tzeentch is done. Just my observations so far - and as much as I love Flamers, I never had success with them either.

[Pandamina]

6 hours ago, Barteh said:

I've been struggling to come up with a 1250 list for a tournament coming up. I was wondering what people thought about the following;

You should consider playing beasts of chaos, esp if it's 4x4 table. Something like
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Beasts Of Chaos
- Greatfray: Gavespawn

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- General
- Trait: Unravelling Aura 
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Viletide
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
Beastlord (90)
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade 

Battleline
20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)

Endless Spells
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1250 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 102

 

[Terninho83]

i played the followed list on this weekend and vender up with 1 minor lost, flood trees from sylvaneth, and 2 major wins, daemon khorne and e and enzo stormcast.

Gaunt summoner
   arcane sacrifice
   bolt of tzeentch
   Gryph-father charm
Tzaangor Shaman
   fold reality
The blue scribes
   Tzeenrch's Firestone

10x pink horrors
   unchecked mutation
10x Kairic acolyte

6x Tzaangor enlightened
1x Tzeentch chaos spawn

balewind vortex
Aethervoid Pendulumn
Chronomantic Cogs

The Idea of this army is make the gaunt summoner a 4 spell Caster with 33" range rerroling failed cast.
The  Shaman babysitter of enlightened
The blue scribes make my cast unpredictible and a Source of rerroling

i will use pink as a Farmland with destiny dice.
Chaos spawn will be a body guard for gaunt summoner and the blue scribes

[MattyP]

I haven't had too many good experiences playing tzeentch, and after review list ideas I came to the conclusion that it's me not the list....somewhat depressing. I have tried to learn how to play (experiencea painter  but inexperienced player) and took me a while to get down the basics of game play. Now that I've gotten that down in trying to learn strategy, but not going well.  Did/does anyone else have a hard time learning stategy? I'm trying to keep a positive attitude...as it's just a game.....but losing as much as I have is not making for a fun experience 

[mmimzie]

49 minutes ago, MattyP said:

I haven't had too many good experiences playing tzeentch, and after review list ideas I came to the conclusion that it's me not the list....somewhat depressing. I have tried to learn how to play (experiencea painter  but inexperienced player) and took me a while to get down the basics of game play. Now that I've gotten that down in trying to learn strategy, but not going well.  Did/does anyone else have a hard time learning stategy? I'm trying to keep a positive attitude...as it's just a game.....but losing as much as I have is not making for a fun experience 

One thing about tzneetch is I'd say it is one of the most difficult armies to play. You have to know when and where it is worth your effort to attack and really be on point with positioning. 

 

For learning how to play well i recommend that you ask your friends to do kind of a double solitary game or to really communicate every move with one another. For example of you see your opponent doing something dumb that looks game losing you guys talk about that move before you go on. During you spell phase you can ask your opponent what unit he thinks is most important at the moment, before you start flinging spells, etc. 

[MattyP]

2 hours ago, mmimzie said:

One thing about tzneetch is I'd say it is one of the most difficult armies to play. You have to know when and where it is worth your effort to attack and really be on point with positioning. 

 

For learning how to play well i recommend that you ask your friends to do kind of a double solitary game or to really communicate every move with one another. For example of you see your opponent doing something dumb that looks game losing you guys talk about that move before you go on. During you spell phase you can ask your opponent what unit he thinks is most important at the moment, before you start flinging spells, etc. 

That's a good idea. I'll have to try that

[Binks]

What do you think about this list? Going to a 1500pts tournament, I'm the only Tzeentchian and wanna do well against all the Sigmarites and Khornates that plague my local meta😈

LEADERS

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) - General - Command Trait : Magical Supremacy- Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch

Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Change : Glimpse the future

Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) - Lore of Change: Infusion Arcanum

UNITS

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)

20 x Tzaangors (360)

3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)

3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)

My plan with this list is to abuse the magic phase with my heroes, use Skyfires to snipe enemy heroes while chaos warriors grab objetives or hold the line. Tzaangors can be quite threatening, can cover a lot of ground and with adecuate support they are great. I plan to summon horrors as needed.

Thanks in advance :)

 

 

[AverageBoss]

9 hours ago, Binks said:

What do you think about this list? Going to a 1500pts tournament, I'm the only Tzeentchian and wanna do well against all the Sigmarites and Khornates that plague my local meta😈

LEADERS

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) - General - Command Trait : Magical Supremacy- Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch

Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Change : Glimpse the future

Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) - Lore of Change: Infusion Arcanum

UNITS

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)

5 x Chaos Warriors (90)

20 x Tzaangors (360)

3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)

3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)

My plan with this list is to abuse the magic phase with my heroes, use Skyfires to snipe enemy heroes while chaos warriors grab objetives or hold the line. Tzaangors can be quite threatening, can cover a lot of ground and with adecuate support they are great. I plan to summon horrors as needed.

Thanks in advance

 

 

I would give the Shaman Fold Reality and merge the Skyfires into a single unit. I would also consider swapping the Warriors for Acolytes for more bodies, and a little bit of ranged threat. Then use you 40 leftover points for an endless spell, most likely Pendulum or Balewind.

[MattyP]

 It has been said that the curseling can't use vessel of chaos ability to unbind/ cast endless spells in matched play, even though it is in the FAQ that he can.....I'm confused on this 

Edited March 21, 2019 by MattyP

[Origin]

3 hours ago, MattyP said:

 It has been said that the curseling can't use vessel of chaos ability to unbind/ cast endless spells in matched play, even though it is in the FAQ that he can.....I'm confused on this 

The Designer Commentaries for the Malign Portent book states that you cannot cast endless spells you have not paid points for. 

So in open play or narrative play you can use Vessel of Chaos all you like. Not so much in matched play. 

However on the off chance that both you and you opponent have bought the same endless spell... 

[Connelj2]

7 hours ago, MattyP said:

 It has been said that the curseling can't use vessel of chaos ability to unbind/ cast endless spells in matched play, even though it is in the FAQ that he can.....I'm confused on this 

So it is ok to case a dispelled endless spell if you have paid for it. Example if you and your opponent have paid for cogs. He attemds to cast it and you dispell. That means you can now cast it since you paid the points. How ever if he right after lasts maelstrom and you havnt paid for the points you can dispell it but then you.can't cast it. Its the main thing that makes endless spell tzeentch lists with cursling so fun

[TactfulSaturn]

Hi guys I'm looking for some clarification of how realm spells work in matched play games. 

Can I give my wizards a spell from any realm in any matched play event? Or can you only access realm spells if the matched play came is specifically set in that realm? 

I see people writing lists with artefacts and spells from a specific realm but I am not sure if this is just a free choice thing or whether it is dictated by the match play game? 

Thanks in advance! 

[MattyP]

13 hours ago, Origin said:

The Designer Commentaries for the Malign Portent book states that you cannot cast endless spells you have not paid points for. 

So in open play or narrative play you can use Vessel of Chaos all you like. Not so much in matched play. 

However on the off chance that both you and you opponent have bought the same endless spell... 

So I cannot find this . I have searched FAQ and the malign portent FAQ states that an ability the allows a model to learn or know a spell can't be used for endless spells unless points are paid......but the vessel of chaos ability does not allow the curseling to kniw/learn the spell (that is clean magic).  So , if he doesn't learn or know the spell via vessel of chaos then he can unbind them cast it

[Origin]

@MattyP That's a fair interpretation, probably worth an email to GW.

I can see your point, he never really knows the spell but I feel the intent is not in our favour. 

[Barnie25]

A few months back I sold off my Stormscasts and jumped back into chaos (40k). As a result I now have quite a few models which I can use for AoS and 40k. Can I make an army from the following models:

 

Lord of Change

Herald of Tzeentch

2 Daemon Princes

The Changeling

 

40 Pink horrors

30 Gors (counts as tzaangors in 40k but since they are actual brayherds, id probably have to run them as such in AoS.

 

What should I be looking to add to build an army?

I thought something along the lines of:

 

Lord of Change- 380

The changeling - 200

Daemon prince - 160

3x 10 pink horrors 600

 

30 Gor allies 210

This is 1550 points. What should I add for the final 450? It doesnt have to be extremely competitive.

 

 

[Paniere]

I'm fairly new to the game, still have to play the 1st match, but lurking these pages and reading the rules makes me pretty sure that you will need 30+ blue horrors and brimstones for summining purposes. Then I'm confident that 9 enlightened on disks will be suggested by many others

 

[Captain James Hook]

Hello everyone! I'm trying to come up with a good tzeentch list but something different from what we nowdays. I've got 2 options to choose, it's basically the same list with a different flavor. This list is based on models i own and i've converted. It's not the classic enlightened spam, but i think it shoul work well on the battlefield. So which one do you prefer?

first list:

Lord of change, general, arch sorcerer, bolt of tzeentch, arcane transformation 380

Sayl the faithless and nightmaw 200

15 chaos chosen of tzeentch 420

Phantasmagoria of fate battallion 200

Doombull with ghyrstrike 120

Doombull with blade of hammerhal ghyra 120

10 ungors 60

10 ungors 60

20 tzaangors, with 8 savage great blade, 3 mutants, 2 shield and the rest with pair of savage blades.360

Aethervoid pendulum 40

tot 1960

Second one:

Lord of change, bolt of tzeentch 380

sayl the faithless and nightmaw 200

gaunt summoner, general, arcane sacrifice, arcane transformation 180

10 chaos chosens of tzeentch/ 15 chaos warriors with great weapon 280/270

phantasmagoria of fate battallion 200

doombull with ghyrstrike 120

doombull with blade of hammerhal ghyra 120

10 ungors 60

10 ungors 60

20 tzaangors, with 8 savage great blade, 3 mutants, 2 shield and the rest with pair of savage blades.360

Aethervoid pendulum 40

tot. 2000/1990

 

[RaritanAnon]

I have a load of Daemons and Mortals but I absolutely hate the Tzaangors, both model wise and game-wise. 

 

Are they viable at all, that is, a Tzeentch list without Tzaangors? Every game I've played I tend to eke out a very close win or I get curbstomped. To that end I've thought about running masses of Kairics in a Witchfyre Coven. See what 160 fireballs can do. This is what I came up with. 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Lord of Change (380)

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)

Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)

- Runestaff

40 x Kairic Acolytes (300)

40 x Kairic Acolytes (300)

10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)

3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)

Witchfyre Coven (120)

Balewind Vortex (40)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 134

Sorcerer lord and Ogroid to babysit the Kairics. Pinks to die quickly. Enlightened to go character hunting and Gaunt/lord of change for heavy hitting spells. 80 shots in the hero phase and 80 in the shooting phase. That's gnarly. 

[newsun]

On 3/22/2019 at 10:21 AM, RaritanAnon said:

I have a load of Daemons and Mortals but I absolutely hate the Tzaangors, both model wise and game-wise. 

 

Are they viable at all, that is, a Tzeentch list without Tzaangors? Every game I've played I tend to eke out a very close win or I get curbstomped. To that end I've thought about running masses of Kairics in a Witchfyre Coven. See what 160 fireballs can do. This is what I came up with. 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Lord of Change (380)

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)

Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)

- Runestaff

40 x Kairic Acolytes (300)

40 x Kairic Acolytes (300)

10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)

3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)

Witchfyre Coven (120)

Balewind Vortex (40)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 134

Sorcerer lord and Ogroid to babysit the Kairics. Pinks to die quickly. Enlightened to go character hunting and Gaunt/lord of change for heavy hitting spells. 80 shots in the hero phase and 80 in the shooting phase. That's gnarly. 

I'd probably drop the sorc Lord or ogroid to make enlightened 6 strong. Then get pendulum or swords

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

Bought 40 marauders to rip off a pestilens tactic, what do people think of this:

40 man unit with shields and the works string out to block the initial charges, I run horrors so nothin is hurting from lack of combat, my list be something like:

gaunt summoner

magister 

10 horrors

10 horrors

40 marauders

shackles and spell portal

1000/1000

the marauders means I can wrap the whole army, The average melee army usual,y gets to me turn 2, with shackles not getting dispelled that’s turn 3, with marauders to take the initial charge that’s actually turn 4 on a perfect day, this is all in theory tho and i only thought of it when’s i saw several pestilens players using the same tactic over and over (pestilens likes to counter charge, so the initial unit blocks all possible charges and then the units behind fee fully buffed and wreck face) it’s the same tactic just using spells and shooting instead of counter charging. Enlightened 2 inches behind the maruader unit is also an interesting tactic I may try as it almost guarantees they get fully buffed before wrecking face, and they can simply fly over the marauders to grab objectives! The speed of marauders is also not a problem with cp or vortemis as they move 13 inches when running with banner (and I want them to soak charges so I won’t charge with them normally unless a good opportunity arrives) the 200 points for a guaranteed extra turn of breathing room seems fantastic in my head

spell portal plus trait that increases range means I’m always able to reach out and touch stuff so ranged armies should be fine to deal with as well, especially since pink horrors split into more horrors so my fire base is hard to remove (albeit lacking in damage without constant spells going off)

i do have to be wary of one thing tho, with a large maruader unit lined up a lucky charge might actually mean the opponent arrives faster to my guys (although again worst case scenario is they reach my lines turn 2 so not a bad tradeoff really since that’s usually when they get there) also flying guys will not care... will prolly be priority for my spells 

[MattyP]

Still waiting for the tzeentch update....endless spells and whatnot .....however looks like it's slaanesh  release instead. Mixed feelings 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

3 minutes ago, MattyP said:

Still waiting for the tzeentch update....endless spells and whatnot .....however looks like it's slaanesh  release instead. Mixed feelings 

Slaanesh deserved it ☺️ I’m just glad all 4 chaos gods are getting goodies since AOS came out. We are also blessed with the endless spells needed to work well in this day and age. Battleline psykers and horror summoning is also very strong. And with marks we can fill in almost any blank! We aren’t op like we used too but I’d like to think this is the best spot for an army, not overpowered but still able to feel powerful doing what we do best. I do think arcanites should have access to more buffs and not rely on casters as much (although in large games the cabal is amazing sometimes, I love being able to abuse our look out sir spell on any wizard while still casting base spells and getting recycled fate Dice!) 

i haven’t matched with death tho so I’m unsure how are casting measures up to the other best casting faction 

[MattyP]

2 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Slaanesh deserved it ☺️ I’m just glad all 4 chaos gods are getting goodies since AOS came out. We are also blessed with the endless spells needed to work well in this day and age. Battleline psykers and horror summoning is also very strong. And with marks we can fill in almost any blank! We aren’t op like we used too but I’d like to think this is the best spot for an army, not overpowered but still able to feel powerful doing what we do best. I do think arcanites should have access to more buffs and not rely on casters as much (although in large games the cabal is amazing sometimes, I love being able to abuse our look out sir spell on any wizard while still casting base spells and getting recycled fate Dice!) 

i haven’t matched with death tho so I’m unsure how are casting measures up to the other best casting faction 

I'm just wanting to buy new models and tzeentch themed endless spells. And I've played against skaven after their update.....they are nasty and I didn't fair well. ....could have been me. I'm not upset that slaanesh  is getting stuff, just want more tzeentch stuff to burn money on 😁.