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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

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I was looking at Multitudinous Host and I think it's still a solid option at 2k (obviously gets even better at larger games). 

You can fit in 5 units of pinks, 3 units of blues, 3 heroes (herald, scribes, Guant Summoner for example) and the battalion cost.

Even with the reduced rates, that's producing an average 260 points of horrors (10 pink and 6 blues) a turn while you have all the starting units, in addition to the command point and artefact, that's still great value. The main problem I see is collecting and painting all those horrors: you'd probably want about 80 each of Pinks, Blues and Brimstones to avoid running out of models! and that's before any units for Fate summoning, which should get you something decent with 8 casters in the list.

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21 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

They’re not MORTAL.

968720F0-162E-4D2A-B1C3-46D5EAB32FA1.jpeg.24d5c59cc194b4eaf11665f1b8eb6a0c.jpeg

Maybe I’m having reading issues? Can you point out which word reads “mortal”? ;) 

Yes ... I know it’s not there either. I had to make a doublecheck myself. :/

The restricions for The Artefacts is on the Artefact list, not in the wording section that was FAQ’d out.

You got me! That dude has so many keywords that I guess I have trouble actually parsing them all. My bad, y'all are correct.

On the FAQ thing, what did the FAQ actually do then? Anything? Just tighten down language? Was it unclear that Daemonic Gifts are just more artefacts, but for Daemon Heroes? I admit I was very confused why they were apparently changing things so I went searching for reason and found the wrong one :/

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43 minutes ago, Boss Salvage said:

On the FAQ thing, what did the FAQ actually do then? Anything? Just tighten down language? Was it unclear that Daemonic Gifts are just more artefacts, but for Daemon Heroes? I admit I was very confused why they were apparently changing things so I went searching for reason and found the wrong one

This change was needed and made so everything that is technically and artifact is an artifact by RAW.

Otherwise heroes with "daemonic adornments" and similar artifact-likes might not have been able to score in scenarios like Places of Arcane Power.

When the FAQ hit, a fair amount of people forgot that the restrictions are at the top of the respective tables and not in the retracted texts.

Edited by Xasz
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Ahhhhhh so yea, classic Semantics Phase stuff. Cheers for the clarification, I was certainly in the forgetting restrictions camp - I was actually shocked they'd unlock things like that and got excited about slapping mortal gifts on my daemon prince, except beyond the Paradoxical Shield the daemon gifts (or the realmefacts) are better :P

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Last night I tried out this pure Daemon list and it performed admirably wiping out a Lizardman list in 3 turns.

 

Battalion: Change Host

Lord of Change, General with Incorporeal Form and Griffon Feather Charm

Herald of Tzeentch on foot

Herald of Tzeentch on disk with Wellspring of Arcane Might

3 * 10 Pink Horrors

2 * 3 Flamers

6 Screamers

Aethervoid Pendulum

 

The one thing I an struggling with is, I love the change host, but struggle with the last three units to fill it (the flamers and screamers in the list above).  Just not sure what to replace them with, I don’t need more horrors, more heralds will mean I struggle with having enough spells for them to cast and having tried them out I’m just not a fan of the other options. Any thoughts/opinions would be appreciated.

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1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

 

 

Last night I tried out this pure Daemon list and it performed admirably wiping out a Lizardman list in 3 turns.

 

Battalion: Change Host

Lord of Change, General with Incorporeal Form and Griffon Feather Charm

Herald of Tzeentch on foot

Herald of Tzeentch on disk with Wellspring of Arcane Might

3 * 10 Pink Horrors

2 * 3 Flamers

6 Screamers

Aethervoid Pendulum

 

The one thing I an struggling with is, I love the change host, but struggle with the last three units to fill it (the flamers and screamers in the list above).  Just not sure what to replace them with, I don’t need more horrors, more heralds will mean I struggle with having enough spells for them to cast and having tried them out I’m just not a fan of the other options. Any thoughts/opinions would be appreciated.

 

Scribes and/or Changeling? My changehost uses 10 Units so you can loose one unit and still do 2 swaps.

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10 minutes ago, Drib said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Scribes and/or Changeling? My changehost uses 10 Units so you can loose one unit and still do 2 swaps.

Humm, blue scribes are definitely tempting, but not convinced Changeling is worth the 200 points seems very easy to reveal post-FAQ. Not played with either yet, as I despise finecast and need to put together some conversions for them. So any thoughts/advice on using them would be great.

I'd love to put in 10 units but struggle to find the points. Can you share your list?

 

Thanks

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1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Humm, blue scribes are definitely tempting, but not convinced Changeling is worth the 200 points seems very easy to reveal post-FAQ. Not played with either yet, as I despise finecast and need to put together some conversions for them. So any thoughts/advice on using them would be great.

I'd love to put in 10 units but struggle to find the points. Can you share your list?

 

Thanks

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (380)
Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer 
Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (140)a
General
Staff of Change
Trait: Nexus of Fate 
Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
The Changeling (200)
Lore of Change: Fold Reality
The Blue Scribes (140)
Lore of Change: Fold Reality

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

Units
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
3 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (100)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 82
 

Changeling is only to switch 10 Pinks on objectives and disrupt the enemy and thats totally worth 200 points.

You could field the screamer as two units.

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Humm, ok I'll give it a bash.

Yes, screamers as two units will help (although I find them slightly more effective  in one unit).

Thanks for the help.

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Was thinking about this:

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Lord Of Change (380)

          Mark of the conjurer

          Tzeentch firestorm         
Gaunt Summoner (180) (General)

          Occult sacrifice

          Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (180)

         Fold reality
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)

          Glimpse the future
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)

          Unchecked mutation
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (320)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

 

20 Tzaangors over 30 is a bit shame. What do you think about this ?

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5 hours ago, Grotruk said:

Was thinking about this:

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Lord Of Change (380)

          Mark of the conjurer

          Tzeentch firestorm         
Gaunt Summoner (180) (General)

          Occult sacrifice

          Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (180)

         Fold reality
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)

          Glimpse the future
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)

          Unchecked mutation
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (320)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

 

20 Tzaangors over 30 is a bit shame. What do you think about this ?

This is close to my list i am running at a tournement tomorrow only running 30 tzangors, no enlightening amd 2 units of pinks, i have had alot of success with it in prep games only loosing 1 game out of 8 due to learning the list

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Curious to hear some success stories about our summoning, we've all heard about seraphon putting 1000 points of extra stuff down over a game, or sylvaneth doing their shenanigans, death bringing hordes of skellies back  ect. 

So my question is, how many extra points have you successfully summoned onto the field? I don't really want to include splits unless you summoned pinks from fate points, my reasoning is that you already pay for the ability when you pay the 200 points for them.  

 

Edited by Olincay

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so

59 minutes ago, Olincay said:

Curious to hear some success stories about our summoning, we've all heard about seraphon putting 1000 pints of extra stuff down over a game, or sylvaneth doing their shenanigans, death bringing hordes of skellies back  ect. 

So my question is, how many extra points have you successfully summoned onto the field? I don't really want to include splits unless you summoned pinks from fate points, my reasoning is that you already pay for the ability when you pay the 200 points for them.  

 

Not played that many games, and mostly at a low points total. Generally I've seemed to end up summoning something in the exalted flamer or set of flamers region. That said, so very very many blues and brimstones. I've ended games with around 60 more models than I started with. 

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29 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

so

Not played that many games, and mostly at a low points total. Generally I've seemed to end up summoning something in the exalted flamer or set of flamers region. That said, so very very many blues and brimstones. I've ended games with around 60 more models than I started with. 

What kind of wizard load out do you take? 

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Upsilon

1 hour ago, Olincay said:

 

Messed up formatting on phone, sorry. Was running Ogroid, Blue Scribes, Gaunt summoner, and two sets of ten pinks. 

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Generally I get to something relatively low points turn 2-3 (Herald or flamers), so nice boost but nothing amazing.  That said I've never played an optimised fate generation list (Arcanite cabal, cogs, mark of  conjurer LoC, etc) which could throw out Lots of fate points a turn.

I think our summoning is very different to Seraphon who have to sacrifice a lot of resources (casts, taking specific units etc) but can get an amazing amount of summoning, where Tzeetch summoning is more of a nice bonus that's basically free.

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Greetings fellow Birdppl!

I am pretty new to the Tzeentch life, I’ve gotten a couple games in and having a bit of trouble. 

 

So my inspiration for the army was to convert over a box of the thousand son sorcerers. I made a Curseling, Shammy and a magister. I really wanted to focus on the arcanites because they seem pretty dope and I’ve always been a lot more drawn to the old “mortals” armies than the daemons. 

All of my lists so far have started with an arcanite cabal (2 shammys and a magister) with either the Ogroid or Curseling tac’d on. Max unit of tzaangors (wow), 6 man unit of sky fires and arcanites for filler.

 

The Ogroid has been pretty boss, especially with that wind theif charm and infusion arcanum. 

 

The  Curseling has done zip for me in all three games I’ve had him in. It’s partially been matchup problems, haven’t faced a magic heavy army with him yet where I know he’ll shine. I’ve been kinda down on him because I know he is supposed to be pretty awesome, just hasn’t happened yet. It’s just frustrating that he is so matchup dependent when literally every other caster in the book (besides the daemon ones I’m not familiar with) does their job just fine no matter what. 

I was just really expecting him to be a staple but so far even when he dispels a spell, it’s always a night haunt faction specific spell or some other undeath spell. So he’s been a glimpse the future battery and one off mystic shield (which I could cast off my magister if I desired).

 

So, is he really not worth the points if you arnt using realm spells or endless spells? I know he’d be great vs another magic heavy army but as of now he is in my TAC list and I’d hate to list tailor in my CASUAL-competitive environment. 

 

His “melee capabilities” are a sick joke. Did this guy start out as a mortal warrior or not because damn...

 

Second question. So I’ve been heavily invested in my magic users. Like almost half my army. I’ve been giving one shammy Tzeentches firestorm and a sorcerous elixer. The other one bolt of tzeentch. 

 

First chance i get i pop all my pots, I double cast tzeentches firestorm, rolling 3 dice and rerolling w/e I need to. Problem is that it’s damage is so damn swingy I’m not really getting any mileage out of it. I got it off 3 times last game and failed to roll a 6. Sad panda(bird). I don’t understand how a spell can be so hard to cast and have a pretty decent chance of just doing NOTHING. My mental napkin math says I should be getting 1.5 6’s per successful cast. That’s unimpressive. I know I can just destiny dice it up but it’s way more efficient to use those on sky fires shots because it’s the same damn effect with no points of failure. 

Im starting to think I should double cast Boon of Mutation with one, one turn, then with the other next turn. Firestorm has such tantalizing upside but so far I’d rather have the single “automatic” d3 mortal wounds than the 9 chances at a d3. Plus summoning the tzaangors can be super clutch. 

 

So do I just need to wait for dice to swing back my way? Do you figure on the 1.5 6’s or do you dream of rolling 4? 

 

Im not sure I’m getting great value out of all my casters seeing as I don’t have enough magic missile type spells to sling around. My block of tzaangors does work but other than that I’m really counting on some heavy lifting from my casters, sometimes (because dice) they REALLY disappoint. Again though, I’ve only had a couple of games. 

 

(Typical load out)

Shammy w/ sorcerous elixer(Firestorm)

Shammy (bolt of tzeentch)

Magister (treacherous bond)

curseling w/ magical supremecy (glimpse)

 

The easy answer is to drop the cabal but I really abuse my destiny dice and love love love getting them back on a 4+ may or might not be worth the 180 points. 

KacawKacaw

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As nice as it looks on paper I just don't think the  arcanite cabal  is worth the hefty price tag, especially as it basically forces you to take multiple Shammys or magisters, meaning you quickly run out of good spells to cast.  The 4+ destiny dice recovery is decent but if your running max Tzaangores most of your destiny dice should be used making sure they make combat and don't get crippled but a bad battle shock

Personally I'd drop the second Shammy, Curseling and the Cabal for:  Guant summoner with familiars (great for clearing large squads, build in casting bonus and the -1 save aura makes a huge difference to Tzaangore damage output), Ogroid and use the leftover points to add a small unit of Tzaangors (for the banner and some sticking power).

I completely agree that Tzeentch's firestorm is a bit too random to put lots of resources into, bolt of tzeentch or a nasty endless spell is going to do more work 90% of the time.  Personally I love Aethervoid Pendulum, hit three units and your producing an average 10.5 mortal wounds and it can't really backfire unless your really dump with placement (and I always seem to have 40 points left at the end of building a list). 

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14 hours ago, Cauthon said:

Greetings fellow Birdppl!

I am pretty new to the Tzeentch life, I’ve gotten a couple games in and having a bit of trouble. 

 

So my inspiration for the army was to convert over a box of the thousand son sorcerers. I made a Curseling, Shammy and a magister. I really wanted to focus on the arcanites because they seem pretty dope and I’ve always been a lot more drawn to the old “mortals” armies than the daemons. 

All of my lists so far have started with an arcanite cabal (2 shammys and a magister) with either the Ogroid or Curseling tac’d on. Max unit of tzaangors (wow), 6 man unit of sky fires and arcanites for filler.

 

The Ogroid has been pretty boss, especially with that wind theif charm and infusion arcanum. 

 

The  Curseling has done zip for me in all three games I’ve had him in. It’s partially been matchup problems, haven’t faced a magic heavy army with him yet where I know he’ll shine. I’ve been kinda down on him because I know he is supposed to be pretty awesome, just hasn’t happened yet. It’s just frustrating that he is so matchup dependent when literally every other caster in the book (besides the daemon ones I’m not familiar with) does their job just fine no matter what. 

I was just really expecting him to be a staple but so far even when he dispels a spell, it’s always a night haunt faction specific spell or some other undeath spell. So he’s been a glimpse the future battery and one off mystic shield (which I could cast off my magister if I desired).

 

So, is he really not worth the points if you arnt using realm spells or endless spells? I know he’d be great vs another magic heavy army but as of now he is in my TAC list and I’d hate to list tailor in my CASUAL-competitive environment. 

 

His “melee capabilities” are a sick joke. Did this guy start out as a mortal warrior or not because damn...

 

Second question. So I’ve been heavily invested in my magic users. Like almost half my army. I’ve been giving one shammy Tzeentches firestorm and a sorcerous elixer. The other one bolt of tzeentch. 

 

First chance i get i pop all my pots, I double cast tzeentches firestorm, rolling 3 dice and rerolling w/e I need to. Problem is that it’s damage is so damn swingy I’m not really getting any mileage out of it. I got it off 3 times last game and failed to roll a 6. Sad panda(bird). I don’t understand how a spell can be so hard to cast and have a pretty decent chance of just doing NOTHING. My mental napkin math says I should be getting 1.5 6’s per successful cast. That’s unimpressive. I know I can just destiny dice it up but it’s way more efficient to use those on sky fires shots because it’s the same damn effect with no points of failure. 

Im starting to think I should double cast Boon of Mutation with one, one turn, then with the other next turn. Firestorm has such tantalizing upside but so far I’d rather have the single “automatic” d3 mortal wounds than the 9 chances at a d3. Plus summoning the tzaangors can be super clutch. 

 

So do I just need to wait for dice to swing back my way? Do you figure on the 1.5 6’s or do you dream of rolling 4? 

 

Im not sure I’m getting great value out of all my casters seeing as I don’t have enough magic missile type spells to sling around. My block of tzaangors does work but other than that I’m really counting on some heavy lifting from my casters, sometimes (because dice) they REALLY disappoint. Again though, I’ve only had a couple of games. 

 

(Typical load out)

Shammy w/ sorcerous elixer(Firestorm)

Shammy (bolt of tzeentch)

Magister (treacherous bond)

curseling w/ magical supremecy (glimpse)

 

The easy answer is to drop the cabal but I really abuse my destiny dice and love love love getting them back on a 4+ may or might not be worth the 180 points. 

KacawKacaw

 

I share @Magnus The Blue's oppinion on the overpriced Cable. Additionaly a good chunk of the bonus is removed by removing only one of its members.

Considering the Tzeentch's Inferno, there is a "slight" chance to deal no damge at all, wich is ~19,4% (very Tzeentchian). So hope for the most, but expect the least. In general I'd use it with a Lord of Change/Pinks/Gaunt Summoner with familiars for the +1 to casting rolls.

By the way, there is no way to increase the damge of the Inferno using destiny dices. As the D3 damge rolls and the 9 initial dice can not be destiny diced (page 74, Battletome, and FAQ Tzeentch with the Damage bullet point clarification).

In general, I am more the Daemon kind of player but the Cursling is a real good pick against ANY army that uses magic, magic heavy or weak. Against magic strong armys he get's to steal and/or unbind+recast good spells. Against more or less weak magic he will bring the opponent in a situation like "Do I even want to cast spell X and risk to get it easily thrown back at me?" For me, he has a huge use especally for his low costs of only 160 points.

Regarding your spell picks, I would recoment Fold Reality for one of the Shamens to bring back dead Skyfires.

 

Lastly welcome to the Changer of Ways and keep changing!?

 

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Had a game against Night Haunt yesterday, playing The Better Part of Valour scenario.

My list:

  • Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
    • Command Trait : Arcane Sacrifice
    • Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm
  • Tzaangor Shaman (180)
    • Artefact :   Windthief Charm
    • Lore of Change : Fold Reality
  • Magister (140)
    • Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate
  • Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)
    • Lore of Fate : Infusion Arcanum
  • UNITS
    • 10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
    • 10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
    • 20 x Tzaangors (360)
    • 6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (320)
    • 6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (440)
  • ENDLESS SPELLS
    • Balewind Vortex (40)

Opponents was using something similar to this (not got the newer stuff):

  • 2 Cairn Wraiths (one being a wizard)
  • 2 Banshees
  • 1 Vampire (for the +1 Attack)
  • 2x 6 Spirit Hosts
  • 2x5 Hex Wraiths
  • 2 Mournguls

My destiny dice were terrible, 1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,5 so the skyfires were going to have to roll 5/6s themselves, and spells weren't guaranteed.

It was a very close match due to the objectives. I finished deploying first so let the NH player go first and they advanced towards my objectives. Hexwaiths on the left, Mourgul-1 and Spirit Hosts-1 down the centre, M-2 SH-2 down the right. My turn 1, Gaunt Summoner ate some Acolytes, and summoned the Balewind. Tzaangor banner did 2 wounds to Mourngul-1. Gaunt Summoner cast Firestorm on Mourngul-1 and reduced him to 2 wounds. Magister then cast Bolt of Change on him and turned him into a spawn. Gaunt then cast Infernal Flames on some Hexwraiths (couldn't see the Spirit Hosts, despite the height and range boost!) killing 2. Ogroid then turned 2 into Brimstones, leaving just one. Shaman plinked a wound off something. Very productive turn one magic though! 6 Fate points and some serious damage done. I mismatched the Tzaangors to the hexwraiths though - should have gone after the Spirit Hosts. Enlightened flubbed it against the Hosts. Skyfires attempted to kill Mourngul-2 but didn't achieve much (damn you DD!)

Opponent won T2, claimed my right objective with Mourngul-2. Killed my Enlightened and threatened my Skyfires with the Spirit Hosts, who were going through the discs like a hot knife through butter. My magic then was terrible - think I got one spell off despite rerolls and +2 on the Gaunt Summoner (Familiar and Arcane terrain).

Eventually it came down to the Skyfires killing stuff in combat and not through shooting, and then running off to re-claim objectives to deny my opponent the win. My Tzaangors finish off the Spirit Hosts but by then I had already won really. I committed them way too much to the side, they should have been down the middle really.

After game thoughts:

  • Mortal wounds are horrible against us - that Arcanite Shield only goes so far, and against Night Haunt it's not far enough! Our low bravery was a problem too, the Banshees caused a lot of casualties by screaming. Not sure how to avoid that, other than kill them first?
  • Tzaangor are amazing, and I need to be more confident in what they can do.
  • Ogroid was absolutely amazing in this game. His spell is fantastic and he's no slouch in combat. The Brimstones were great for causing some headaches for my opponent, but Night Haunt can safely ignore them due to flying.
  • Magister was equally fun, the Spawn lasted 4 turns of annoying the Vampire by not dying.
  • Gaunt Summoner + Balewind + Arcane Sacrfice - the range boost (+15"!) was a bit unneccesasry, so I may ditch the Balewind. The rerolls however were great so I'm keeping that for sure.
  • Enlightened didn't get much of a chance to shine sadly. Skyfires did what they wanted to do better, and shot things.
  • Some proper reliable debuffs would be nice, we don't have much that can reduce to hit/wound on specific units other than items on characters.



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Just win a league with DoT. Last game was vs Nighthaunt 1750.

My list was 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice 
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Lord Of Change (380)
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Magister (140)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
30 x Tzaangors (480)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch(70)
Umbral Spellportal (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1750 / 1750
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
 

Her list was

Kurdos 

Some characters Knight on steed

5 hex wraiths 4 tomb bansees and some infantry

We play on meteor scenary.

I just kill all with magic. The Command ability plus the magic power if this army makes all.

Tzangors just die in turn 2. :(.

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Hey,

Congratulations on the win.  I'm curious, why do you have bolt of Tzeentch listed twice for the summoner? My impression was that you only get one spell from one lore and that both bolts are the same spell (i.e. you can't cast both version in one turn), is this how you played it?

Also curious how you found the spell portal? I'm not convinced it's worth it now it can only be used once a turn.

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3 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Hey,

Congratulations on the win.  I'm curious, why do you have bolt of Tzeentch listed twice for the summoner? My impression was that you only get one spell from one lore and that both bolts are the same spell (i.e. you can't cast both version in one turn), is this how you played it?

Also curious how you found the spell portal? I'm not convinced it's worth it now it can only be used once a turn.

Thx!

Its a mistake gaunt only have 1 spell.

Spell portal is for turn 1 LoC spell or just for kill units out of vision.

 

Edited by Curzex

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Is Arcane Sacrifice a valid option on the Gaunt Summoner? I've tried applying it in Azyr but the option is not available.  I do not have the battletome on the app as I have the physical copy, but can obtain it if needed.

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