AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Gilby]

15 hours ago, Olincay said:

I just dont see us saving up the points fast enough, unless you oppnonent is another tzeentch or death army. 

The one Tzeentch off fight I had actually resulted in less spells than normal as we just unbound each others. As much as I want the fatepoints I want a gateway to the face even less.

[TheOtherJosh]

1 hour ago, Gilby said:

The one Tzeentch off fight I had actually resulted in less spells than normal as we just unbound each others. As much as I want the fatepoints I want a gateway to the face even less.

I’ll entirely concur with the casting situation and Fate Points.

Getting Fate Points is challenging. Against any army with the ability to dispel I was seeing less than 10 points by turn 3.

Blue Horror Points are quite easy to get ... as are Brimstone Horror Points. (In one match I saw 36 Blue Points by turn 3) (Especially if you use Arcane Sacrifice or Treacherous Bond)

Having a mobile Tzeentch Hero to capitalize on the Blue Horror deployment might be a good idea if using them ... otherwise ... don’t depend on Fate Point summoning ...

[TheOtherJosh]

[deleted double post]

Edited August 9, 2018 by TheOtherJosh
Deleted due to Double posting

[AaronWilson]

So in light of trying different lists for the Throne of Skulls in October, especially now the Spelll Portal change I'm a bit lost. So here's the next test list

Allegiance - Tzeentch

Tzaangor Shaman
Gaunt Summoner
Magister
Herald

30 Tzaangors
6 Skyfires
3 Enlightened
10 Acolytes
10 Acolytes

Tzaangor Coven

It's 1990, starting with a command point. I'm not sure I totally like it but I'll try it on the table.

[Calum Todd]

That's very similar to my current list. 

Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180)

General

Command Trait : Arcane Sacrifice

Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm

Tzaangor Shaman (180)

Artefact :   Windthief Charm

Lore of Change : Fold Reality

Magister (140)

Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate

Ogroid Thaumaturge (180)

Lore of Fate : Infusion Arcanum

10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)

10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)

20 x Tzaangors (360)

6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (320)

6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (440)

Balewind Vortex (40)

2K on the nose. Having 30 Tzaangor instead of +3 Enlightened is probably a wise idea, but I didn't really want to buy (and paint!) more of them. Arcane Sacrifice + Balewind allows the Gaunt Summoner to be aggressive with spells T1.

[Mikeymajq]

I'm not a Tzeentch player but I have a friend who plays (mainly Tzaangors, really cool looking army), but why does their rule for summoning say that they can summon when they have 5 or more summoning pts, but their cheapest unit to summon costs 10? ?

[AaronWilson]

Yeah I just had no room for a Balewind at 1990 I have 0 wiggle room. I could drop down to only have 3 heroes, but with two scenarios being placed with need wizards and heroes I'm a fan of having more then less.

[AaronWilson]

Just now, Mikeymajq said:

I'm not a Tzeentch player but I have a friend who plays (mainly Tzaangors, really cool looking army), but why does their rule for summoning say that they can summon when they have 5 or more summoning pts, but their cheapest unit to summon costs 10? ?

This has been covered in the FAQ and changed so it is now 10 mate.

[Mikeymajq]

Just now, AaronWIlson said:

This has been covered in the FAQ and changed so it is now 10 mate.

Ah I see, thanks! We were scratching our heads on that one for quite a bit

 

[Humanatee]

I was looking through my book again today at work, trying to make this army feel right to me again. I like the new pinks a lot more now tbh. 

Has anyone tried the Multitudinous Host in the new edition? Or at least, has anyone had any success with it yet? Seems real restrictive with the pts crunch.

[TheOtherJosh]

2 hours ago, Humanatee said:

I was looking through my book again today at work, trying to make this army feel right to me again. I like the new pinks a lot more now tbh. 

Has anyone tried the Multitudinous Host in the new edition? Or at least, has anyone had any success with it yet? Seems real restrictive with the pts crunch.

The updated July faq decreases the number of models returned even more than it did in the June update... at 200 points it’s ... of questionable value  

Edited August 10, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[Humanatee]

1 hour ago, TheOtherJosh said:

The updated July faq decreases the number of models returned even more than it did in the June update... at 200 points it’s ... of questionable value  

Oh wow I completely missed that in the faq. Man I wasn't sold on it's worth before. A 240pt battalion that gives almost nothing? I get that you get all the battalion benefits, but a tiny bit of recursion on am already fragile unit is pretty lame. 

Oh well, good thing I still have my tzaangors. Those still seem pretty viable.

[TheOtherJosh]

1 hour ago, Humanatee said:

Oh wow I completely missed that in the faq. Man I wasn't sold on it's worth before. A 240pt battalion that gives almost nothing? I get that you get all the battalion benefits, but a tiny bit of recursion on am already fragile unit is pretty lame. 

Oh well, good thing I still have my tzaangors. Those still seem pretty viable.

Here’s the text update:

“Page 97 – Multitudinous Host, Horrors Without Number Change the rules text to:
‘In each of your hero phases, add D3 models to each unit of Pink Horrors and/or Blue Horrors, and add 1 model to each unit of Brimstone Horrors in this battalion.’”

Yeah ... at 8 units required you’re seeing a minimum of 8 models back (unless a unit gets wiped) but it’s still expensive.

You'd need a combination of 12 Pink/24 Blue Horrors/~33ish Brimstones in a 1:2:3 ratio to get back the points.

Edited August 10, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[Satyrical Sophist]

Had my first tournament today. 1k. Gaunt, Thaumaturge, Scribes, 10 Pinks, 10 pinks and 10 hounds. Pleased to go undefeated. The horrors really let you go for the attrition fight, and was particularly impressed with the ability of the scribes to leap forward 21 inches, letting you suddenly capture something 33 inches away. Did mess up and underestimate versus Sacrosanct though, Evocators are brutal.

A question came up though. Is it possible for Pinks to go above starting size? Opponent and the general "rules guy" insisted that they could not, citing the core rules. I can't seem to find anything about it though.  Can anyone help me out? Plus, even if there is a general rule, doesn't warscroll trump it? 

If that's the case, is there anything other than basic human decency preventing you taking Kairos, and 3 Skyfires, T1 Fold reality them and chose 6? That gets you 9 Skyfires and at 600 points, plus a part worn Lord of Change. That seems pretty damn nuts.

[FPC]

Fold Reality only returns slain models. But I don’t think there’s anything otherwise keeping a unit of pinks from going over their starting size.

[Drib]

But the Battleshock D6 models can bring them above starting size.

[Humanatee]

On 8/11/2018 at 3:02 AM, TheOtherJosh said:

Here’s the text update:

“Page 97 – Multitudinous Host, Horrors Without Number Change the rules text to:
‘In each of your hero phases, add D3 models to each unit of Pink Horrors and/or Blue Horrors, and add 1 model to each unit of Brimstone Horrors in this battalion.’”

Yeah ... at 8 units required you’re seeing a minimum of 8 models back (unless a unit gets wiped) but it’s still expensive.

You'd need a combination of 12 Pink/24 Blue Horrors/~33ish Brimstones in a 1:2:3 ratio to get back the points.

Has anyone tried it out post-nerf? It almost seems pointless now unless you want to guarentee your whole army is a one-drop. I can see how before it could've been a pretty crazy horde, but now I'm not so sure the cost outweighs the benefits. 

I'd still like to see it play out on a table, tho. A couple max-sized pinks and a cheap acolytes for troops, then 6 blobs of brims? Even then you don't have much room for anything else.

[TheOtherJosh]

10 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

A question came up though. Is it possible for Pinks to go above starting size? Opponent and the general "rules guy" insisted that they could not, citing the core rules. I can't seem to find anything about it though.  Can anyone help me out? Plus, even if there is a general rule, doesn't warscroll trump it? 

Can you recall the “core rules” that your opponent cited to indicate that?

That was a thing in the prior edition... with the wording on the horrors that was added as an faq ... but that wording was stripped out with the change to sumoning in AoS v2.0.

This would definitely be a “show me the rule” moment.

[Olincay]

This is the list that came 5th at black out, it's not what i was expecting. 

[Drib]

35 minutes ago, Olincay said:

This is the list that came 5th at black out, it's not what i was expecting. 

And it is invalid. As the Paradoxical Shield is Mortal Hero only.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Drib

[Satyrical Sophist]

51 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Can you recall the “core rules” that your opponent cited to indicate that?

That was a thing in the prior edition... with the wording on the horrors that was added as an faq ... but that wording was stripped out with the change to sumoning in AoS v2.0.

This would definitely be a “show me the rule” moment.

They just said core rules. I really didn't want to slow the tournament to a crawl while it was looked up. I'll mention it to them next time I see them.

[kenshin620]

I think in general theres still some debate about "going above starting size" summoning unless it is specifically mentioned. FEC is also trying to grapple with this rule, especially since many of their summoning revolves around bolstering existing units, while "new unit summoning" for them adds on minimum sized units. So one would think "summon 10 man ghoul squad, then bolster above the 10 man size", or at least thats the idea.

[Boss Salvage]

7 hours ago, Drib said:

And it is invalid. As the Paradoxical Shield is Mortal Hero only.

Pretty sure the 07/23 FAQ removed the artefact restrictions:

Quote

Page 76
 – Artefacts of Power
Replace the rules introduction for artefacts of power
with the following:
‘If a Tzeentch army includes any Heroes, one may bear
one artefact of power from one of the following tables:
Treasures of the Cults, Fated Artefacts, Daemonic
Weapons or Daemonic Powers.’

Though the Tzaangor Shaman appears to be Mortal, Daemonic and Arcanite anyway, going by keywords.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Boss Salvage

[TheOtherJosh]

22 minutes ago, Boss Salvage said:

Pretty sure the 07/23 FAQ removed the artefact restrictions:

Though the Tzaangor Shaman appears to be Mortal, Daemonic and Arcanite anyway, going by keywords.

They’re not MORTAL.

Maybe I’m having reading issues? Can you point out which word reads “mortal”?  

Yes ... I know it’s not there either. I had to make a doublecheck myself. 

The restricions for The Artefacts is on the Artefact list, not in the wording section that was FAQ’d out.

Edited August 13, 2018 by TheOtherJosh

[Drib]

2 hours ago, Boss Salvage said:

Pretty sure the 07/23 FAQ removed the artefact restrictions:

Quote

Page 76
 – Artefacts of Power
Replace the rules introduction for artefacts of power
with the following:
‘If a Tzeentch army includes any Heroes, one may bear
one artefact of power from one of the following tables:
Treasures of the Cults, Fated Artefacts, Daemonic
Weapons or Daemonic Powers.’

 

That part is only for the "Daemonic Gift as Artefacts of Power" part later in the FAQ.

In the orginal book it is:

Quote

If a TZEENTCH army includes any ARCANITE HEROES
or MORTAL HEROES , then one may bear an artefact of
power.

The restrictions are still there.