AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Cambot1231]

(Here is a little tantrum i'm throwing based on the list i posted up top)

I'm not sure how other tzeentch players  experience has been since the update but i find the Lord of Change pretty lacking at 380.  You really have to push heavily into either summoning or making him a combat beast to make his points in my opinion. 

Another issue is tzeentch armies that lack a battalion.  Correct me if im wrong but it is pretty tough to cap objectives when you have the opposing army crashing into you first turn.  Your hiked up price wizards sit there praying to the chaos gods that their now diminished shield wall holds and that your opponent doesnt have a deepstrike mechanic.  You get some of your awesome spells off sure, but will it be enough to incinerate the hordes bearing down on you?  You hope that perhaps your melee fighters can help take the edge off... but then you realize you didnt purchase enlightened and your pinks, chaos warriors, you name it are already getting roffle stomped.  Ah maybe the infusion arcanumed ogroid can get in and smash face.... hmmn wiphs again... how can a 2 up 2 up... nevermind. They attack back and his 5 up save turns him into a fancy hood ornament.  

Are people having similar experiences or is tzaangor spam the only way to play tzeentch these days???

[Waiyuren]

5 hours ago, Cambot1231 said:

Are people having similar experiences or is tzaangor spam the only way to play tzeentch these days?

Purely based on my own experience i think the problem is the chaos warriors; they just don't have the footprint to shield your wizards. Acolytes have the same base size, and you get 10 for 10pts less than 5 warriors, which if spread in a line (not a good idea in game anymore, but just for demonstration) is a 551mm exclusion zone, as opposed to the warriors 266. 

If you can't replace the warriors, maybe try deploying them in 5's, with units spread no more than 3" apart. My reasoning is that if you don't have the bodies, then you need to get real creative with spacing what you do have. ?

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Waiyuren

[Sigwarus]

I don't know about (Tzangor) spam but a balanced list contains both magic and combat elements to be sure. I don't think tzeentch can rely solely on magic in this edition because of the price hikes on the magicians. Look at my list above. I took on and defeated idoneth alfastrike with it. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Sigwarus
Spelling

[TheOtherJosh]

33 minutes ago, Sigwarus said:

I don't know about (Tzangor) spam but a balanced list contains both magic and combat elements to be sure. I don't think tzeentch can rely solely on magic in this edition because of the price hikes on the magicians. Look at my list above. I took on and defeated idoneth alfastrike with it. 

Care to elaborate on the Battle?

[Olincay]

Jusy saw the results from Blackout18.

Top tzeentch was 5th, with 1 more in top 30. 

Anyone have any details on the lists that were taken? 

Pretty intrigued to see what's in them. 

[AaronWilson]

So with the lack of a batallion to build around & the loss of spell portal, what sort of lists are people currently running? I'm a little lost for direction right now.

[Drib]

10 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

So with the lack of a batallion to build around & the loss of spell portal, what sort of lists are people currently running? I'm a little lost for direction right now.

I am still going for Changehost:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (380)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
The Blue Scribes (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
The Changeling (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (140)
- Staff of Change

- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
3 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 82

I am thinking of an 2x9 Enlightened list too but am not too sure about that.

[obmik1]

2 hours ago, Drib said:

I am still going for Changehost:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (380)
- General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy
- Artefact: Mark of the Conjurer
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
The Blue Scribes (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
The Changeling (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (140)
- Staff of Change

- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
3 x Screamers Of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 82

I am thinking of an 2x9 Enlightened list too but am not too sure about that.

Have you had many games with your changehost? I'm wondering how it actually fairs this edition. Allot of noise about it being dead but maybe it just plays differently with summoning. 

 

Not sure I feel the 2x9 enlightened.  Same points as zaangors. I think they contribute more. Maybe one unit of each?

[Calum Todd]

A unit of Tzaangors would be cheaper (sort of ) by filling a battleline slot at least.

• 2x10 Acolytes
• 30 Tzaangors
• 9 Enlightened

Comes to 1120. Compared to:

• 3x10 Acolytes
• 9 Enlightened
• 9 Enlightened

At 1200.

As @obmik1says it's probably a bit more competitive.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Calum Todd

[obmik1]

15 hours ago, Olincay said:

Jusy saw the results from Blackout18.

Top tzeentch was 5th, with 1 more in top 30. 

Anyone have any details on the lists that were taken? 

Pretty intrigued to see what's in them. 

Me too. I think zeentch are still a top contender. I just think they're not flavour of the month right now and their playstyle has changed considerably. Can't wait to see the lists that come out of the tournies. 

[Stevewren]

I'm really unsure about what to do at the moment with the new edition - I've tried Nurgle and Sylvaneth, but my favourite list in AoS 1 was the Omniscient Oracles. I'm not sure that it will work anymore so I am looking at this list. I haven't quite decided on the items, but I like the idea of Kairos being able to cast Fractal Mindstorm on a really high cast - 10+ on units, roll 10 dice and any fours are mortal wounds coupled with the LoC spell. The Enlightened are a good fighting unit with the shaman and the Ogroid Thaumaturge, and  the marauders are good at the points for a whole bunch of dudes to hold an objective. The list is then filled out with casters - can get off 8 spells a game plus whatever else the opponent casts so some summoning should be possible after a couple of turns. 

The only downside is painting the 40 Maruaders!

 

[Mhexin]

Hi Guys,

 

I've  recently bought some tzeentch (starting with Tzaangors) and was wondering where I could find the most up to date rules for the army?

Is the battletome still a good purchase? My previous army was KO and unfortunately their battletome became outdated pretty quickly.

Also are the warscrolls on the app fairly up to date?

 

Thanks!

[Drib]

8 hours ago, Mhexin said:

Hi Guys,

 

I've  recently bought some tzeentch (starting with Tzaangors) and was wondering where I could find the most up to date rules for the army?

Is the battletome still a good purchase? My previous army was KO and unfortunately their battletome became outdated pretty quickly.

Also are the warscrolls on the app fairly up to date?

 

Thanks!

The app is the best place to look into. The Battletome is needed for the command traits, artefacts and spell lores, but ~50% are FAQ'd and/or changed alot. My Battletome is a collection of sticky notes ..

[Mhexin]

6 hours ago, Drib said:

The app is the best place to look into. The Battletome is needed for the command traits, artefacts and spell lores, but ~50% are FAQ'd and/or changed alot. My Battletome is a collection of sticky notes ..

Thanks. Sounds like I'll still need the battletome but I should look through the FAQ's/changes and make some notes. Any idea off the top of your head where I can easily find the tzeentch specific changes?

[Quarmiel]

11 minutes ago, Mhexin said:

Thanks. Sounds like I'll still need the battletome but I should look through the FAQ's/changes and make some notes. Any idea off the top of your head where I can easily find the tzeentch specific changes?

All warscroll changes had been implenented to AoS app.

You will find some tips and specific DoT rules here: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Tactics/Chaos/Disciples_of_Tzeentch , but keep in mind, not everything is up to date there.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Quarmiel

[Boss Salvage]

On 8/6/2018 at 3:17 AM, AaronWIlson said:

So with the lack of a batallion to build around & the loss of spell portal, what sort of lists are people currently running?

I'll show my hand, although I won't really get started on the Biggest Bird until the fall:

Exalted Greater Daemon of Tzeentch - Incorporeal Form + Ignax Scales
Herald of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch
30 Pink Horrors
10 Pink Horrors
10 Pink Horrors
1 Exalted Flamer
1 Exalted Flamer
Prismatic Palisade
-------------------
1950

In the meantime, I've gotten the rebasing on the first 1k underway, and with a 1500 local tournament Aug 18 I might speed that up. Here's the list I'm thinking for that:

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - Nexus of Fate + Gryph-Feather Charm
Herald of Tzeentch
Herald of Tzeentch
20 Pink Horrors
10 Pink Horrors
10 Pink Horrors
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch
-------------------
1500

Trait + Artefact on the big boys subject to change and availability (i.e. no real read on if the realm artefacts are a thing locally or at large). I keep wanting to put an offensive buff on them but I prefer things that effect all weapons, which keeps leading me back to Phantasmal Weapons or possibly Daemonheart, although one use items make me sad. Though I'll admit Sword of Judgement on a beast that can summon 6's to hit is pretty stupendous, if very DD reliant.

EDIT:

Alternate 1500 list to get all my horrors on the table at the cost of a sixth spell:

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch - Incorporeal Form
Herald of Tzeentch - Aura of Mutability
30 Pink Horrors
10 Pink Horrors
10 Pink Horrors
Soul Grinder of Tzeentch
-------------------
1500

Edited August 7, 2018 by Boss Salvage

[Myzyrael]

I’m looking forward to a 2k game this week (my 2nd aos2 game ever ?) and trying to come up with a more resilient list than I used to theory craft. I’d like to get your opinion.

This are only 3 heroes which makes me a bit worried for some scenarios but think that the warriors and gors will work as a nice hammer/anvil and threat to the enemy to pull some fire away from the heroes as they are more supportive than anything. It’s still 7 spells. If I keep the pinks next to the gaunt or shaman they should somewhat reliably cast the easier endless spells, maybe using the wellspring for rerolling ones.

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars(180)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice  
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (200)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
30 x Tzaangors (480)
- 6x Pair of Savage Blade
- 12x Savage Greatblade
30 x Chaos Warriors (480)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Quicksilver Swords (20)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156
 

[SleeperAgent]

What do you guys think of this as a starter 1k:
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Leaders:
Lord of Change (General, Incorporeal Form, Tzeentch's Firestorm)
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (Gryph Feather Charm, Mark of Tzeentch)
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (Bolt of Tzeentch)
Units:
10x Chaos Warriors (Hand Weapon and Shield, Mark of Tzeenth)
10x Kairic Acolytes (Pair of Cursed Blades)

I like the Chaos Sorcerer Lord a lot so I wanted to incorporate him into something magical. One of my main opponents is Sylvaneth with the double spells battalion so I went for 6 unbinds. I could replace Curseling with a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount if thats too much unbinding because Chaos Lord looks awesome.

[Gilby]

On 8/5/2018 at 11:58 PM, Olincay said:

Jusy saw the results from Blackout18.

Top tzeentch was 5th, with 1 more in top 30. 

Anyone have any details on the lists that were taken? 

Pretty intrigued to see what's in them. 

 

On 8/6/2018 at 10:49 AM, obmik1 said:

Have you had many games with your changehost? I'm wondering how it actually fairs this edition.

Not sure what was in those 2 lists unfortunately. Came 33rd with changehost though, first time actually playing Tzeentch or AoS2 as well. Got a bit lucky with some scenarios and match ups. Managed to win 3/5 games even though I was practically  tabled in 4/5 of them! It's lacking any threat in combat, but not sure it ever had that before? Think I'd do better with some more diverse summoning options to play with.

[Olincay]

20 minutes ago, Gilby said:

 

Not sure what was in those 2 lists unfortunately. Came 33rd with changehost though, first time actually playing Tzeentch or AoS2 as well. Got a bit lucky with some scenarios and match ups. Managed to win 3/5 games even though I was practically  tabled in 4/5 of them! It's lacking any threat in combat, but not sure it ever had that before? Think I'd do better with some more diverse summoning options to play with.

Never played changehost myself, but the point of it was to tie your enemy up in combat with splitting pinks/blues and brims for ever on objectives while you throw as many spells as possible with your wizards. 

How did you find not splitting into combat? 

[Gilby]

4 hours ago, Olincay said:

How did you find not splitting into combat? 

A double turn will let them clear you off the board. Saving up fate points didn't really seem to be much of an option, better to spend them early and get another line of bodies up.

[Olincay]

10 hours ago, Gilby said:

A double turn will let them clear you off the board. Saving up fate points didn't really seem to be much of an option, better to spend them early and get another line of bodies up.

With my wealth of 2.0 experience *1 game* ive also come to the same conclusion haha. 

I just dont see us saving up the points fast enough, unless you oppnonent is another tzeentch or death army. 

[Drib]

4 hours ago, Olincay said:

With my wealth of 2.0 experience *1 game* ive also come to the same conclusion haha. 

I just dont see us saving up the points fast enough, unless you oppnonent is another tzeentch or death army. 

I had a few 1k games before FAQ (so I thought you'd need 10 real Fate Points to spend the Blue Points). While getting to the 10 points was very hard, I managed to get a good amount of Blue Points by sacrificing Pinks (not only the Trait) and refilling them. I often managed to get around 60 Blue Points out of 20 Pinks. Usually hit the 10 Fatepoints around turn 3 when I was almost tabled but managed the comeback with all the Blues to steal objectives and always turned the match in my favor.

It usually was a close victory but I guesse with earlyer summoning it will be a lot easier to deny space and contest objectives.

[Olincay]

31 minutes ago, Drib said:

I had a few 1k games before FAQ (so I thought you'd need 10 real Fate Points to spend the Blue Points). While getting to the 10 points was very hard, I managed to get a good amount of Blue Points by sacrificing Pinks (not only the Trait) and refilling them. I often managed to get around 60 Blue Points out of 20 Pinks. Usually hit the 10 Fatepoints around turn 3 when I was almost tabled but managed the comeback with all the Blues to steal objectives and always turned the match in my favor.

It usually was a close victory but I guesse with earlyer summoning it will be a lot easier to deny space and contest objectives.

I've yet to come up with a list i like with pinks in it yet.
Personally im too addicted to tzaangores and skyfires. 
I also don't own enough blue and brim mini's to get full value out of the pinks. 

It's pleasing to hear that the summoning has kept you in games, post FAQ it'll be easier to get those fate points up slightly.

[Nevvermore]

Yeah the monetary investment is certainly a huge consideration for me when considering Pinks... I have 30 Pinks but only 10 Blues and 10 Brimstones.