AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[RUNCMD]

On 8/15/2020 at 7:01 AM, Malchior said:

Any suggestions? I've tried firestorm, darksphere and element games with no luck

Like I aid just depends on where you are in the world. If youre in the EU then it's easier, like weyland games still has some (last I checked last week).

[Gwendar]

On 8/15/2020 at 11:38 AM, Chronos said:

Has anyone ever run Kairos and a Lord of Change?

How many heroes do you guys think is too many, or too few in 2000 points?

I would say too few, honestly. If you want a LoC on the board with Kairos it would probably be better to just run GoS and throw out enough spells to make sure you get 9 FP on T1. Not to say it's a bad idea or anything and it could work, I just think you typically get more value out of multiple wizards and only having 1 of the chickens to start with.

Things like a BW + Changecaster (2 d6 MW spells assuming you take Bolt) or Blue Scribes (RR's or getting off hard to cast spells on top of being a fast summoning platform) are hard for me to pass up in any list.

[Chronos]

 

Hey thanks a lot, I was thinking the same thing. The only thing I'm not able to figure out are what BW is? Balewind? Sadly I don't have it.

On another note, I'm play 1 or 2 games against my Ossiarch friend, and partly inspired by Gwendar am considering a Hosts Duplicitous as well as my normal Eternal Conflag. If anyone feels like letting me know what they think, that's greatly appreciated. I wanted to use the Sorcerer Lord on Manticore as well, but had to order it for next week.

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
 - Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration
LEADERS
Lord of Change (380)
  - General
  - Command Trait : Coruscating Flames
  - Artefact : Shroud of Warpflame
  - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm
The Blue Scribes (120)
  - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch
The Changeling (140)
  - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch
UNITS
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
BATTALIONS
Warpflame Host (140)
                                             TOTAL: 1740/2000  WOUNDS: 66
                          LEADERS: 3/6    BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
                                    ARTEFACTS: 1/2 ENDLESS SPELLS: 0/3 ALLIES: 0/400

 

Basic plan is to summon 3 more Flamers turn two, and have 40 shots wounding on 2s to just focus fire and wipe out units so they can't come back. I took Warpflame Host which is probably strange, but I can't fit in the Changehost and I don't think I'm good enough to get the best out of it anyway, and it gives me Aura of Mutability for the Blue Scribes.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
 - Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous
LEADERS
Lord of Change (380)
  - General
  - Command Trait : Will of the Phantom Lord
  - Artefact : Brand of the Spirit Daemon
  - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
  - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm
The Changeling (140)
  - Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
  - Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
  - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch
Be'Lakor (240)
  - Allies
UNITS
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
                                               TOTAL: 1970/2000  WOUNDS: 97
                           LEADERS: 6/6     BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
                                    ARTEFACTS: 1/1  ENDLESS SPELLS: 1/3 ALLIES: 240/400

 

Inspired by Gwendar. Put out a lot of spell and some debuffs, I have enough to get 10 more Pinks turn two. The Shaman is a bit strange but can buff the Enlightened who can really solve some problems if anything needs to die asap(Arkhan, Kavalos, Crawler, Harvester...). I don't see Skyfires being worth the points. I could replace the Shaman and Changecaster with a Gaunt Summoner on Disk, but I only have 20 Pinks 40 Blues, and 40 Brims...

Unless I'm mistaken, Be'lakor can pump out the Darkfire Daemonrift which could put out some nice damage if things get close.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Chronos

[Gwendar]

2 hours ago, Chronos said:

 

Hey thanks a lot, I was thinking the same thing. The only thing I'm not able to figure out are what BW is? Balewind? Sadly I don't have it.

On another note, I'm play 1 or 2 games against my Ossiarch friend, and partly inspired by Gwendar am considering a Hosts Duplicitous as well as my normal Eternal Conflag. If anyone feels like letting me know what they think, that's greatly appreciated. I wanted to use the Sorcerer Lord on Manticore as well, but had to order it for next week.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Tzeentch
 - Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration
LEADERS
Lord of Change (380)
  - General
  - Command Trait : Coruscating Flames
  - Artefact : Shroud of Warpflame
  - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm
The Blue Scribes (120)
  - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch
The Changeling (140)
  - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch
UNITS
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
BATTALIONS
Warpflame Host (140)
                                             TOTAL: 1740/2000  WOUNDS: 66
                          LEADERS: 3/6    BATTLELINES: 5 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
                                    ARTEFACTS: 1/2 ENDLESS SPELLS: 0/3 ALLIES: 0/400

 

Basic plan is to summon 3 more Flamers turn two, and have 40 shots wounding on 2s to just focus fire and wipe out units so they can't come back. I took Warpflame Host which is probably strange, but I can't fit in the Changehost and I don't think I'm good enough to get the best out of it anyway, and it gives me Aura of Mutability for the Blue Scribes.

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Tzeentch
 - Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous
LEADERS
Lord of Change (380)
  - General
  - Command Trait : Will of the Phantom Lord
  - Artefact : Brand of the Spirit Daemon
  - Lore of Change : Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
  - Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm
The Changeling (140)
  - Lore of Change : Unchecked Mutation
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
  - Lore of Fate : Shield of Fate
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
  - Lore of Change : Treason of Tzeentch
Be'Lakor (240)
  - Allies
UNITS
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
                                               TOTAL: 1970/2000  WOUNDS: 97
                           LEADERS: 6/6     BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 1/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
                                    ARTEFACTS: 1/1  ENDLESS SPELLS: 1/3 ALLIES: 240/400

 

Inspired by Gwendar. Put out a lot of spell and some debuffs, I have enough to get 10 more Pinks turn two. The Shaman is a bit strange but can buff the Enlightened who can really solve some problems if anything needs to die asap(Arkhan, Kavalos, Crawler, Harvester...). I don't see Skyfires being worth the points. I could replace the Shaman and Changecaster with a Gaunt Summoner on Disk, but I only have 20 Pinks 40 Blues, and 40 Brims...

Unless I'm mistaken, Be'lakor can pump out the Darkfire Daemonrift which could put out some nice damage if things get close.

Yep, Balewind.. before long though, none of us may have it since it's discontinued it seems so I'm enjoying it for now.

For your 1st: I assume you're trying to stay at 1750? Not big on Warpflame, but I get you're reasoning for bringing it. You actually could bring Changehost if you drop a Pink unit and replace it with a unit of Blues and you have 90 points to play with. Don't doubt yourself on Changehost.. it's not hard to use effectively. Just don't let yourself get baited into deploying Flamers right into someones face or anything unless you can for sure take out an important piece as you may lose them afterwards unless you win priority. If you can trade 140 points for 200+ points or something acting as a force multiplier like, say, a 110-160 point Skryre Wizard that makes Stormfiends do 60% more damage with buffs or that Soulmason giving RR 1's to stuff, etc.

For your 2nd: Pinks are definitely awesome, just remember that you can get 10 Blues for half the price which could come in clutch at the right time... so don't get too caught up on saving for 10 Pinks if you can section off an objective with some Blues as you may lose turn priority and it gets taken from you. Skyfires vs Enlightened is something I struggle with too, but honestly I just find Skyfires easier to use and Destiny Dice can help take out those 5 wound support heroes (Use 2-3 of your 6's to kill it with MW's) and they will still clear pretty much any 10-20 man 5-6+ save screen if they fight first. Enlightened want those re-rolls which makes them riskier to use if you run them into an equally punchy unit. The key in that scenario is to make sure you charge the side of a unit to limit how many things can pile into you... but I mean if we're talking about things like 20 Hearthguard Berserkers even letting 6 of them hit you could remove 2-3 Enlightened. Otherwise, you just strike first and ignore the RR's but you really hamper their output this way.

[Chronos]

9 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Yep, Balewind.. before long though, none of us may have it since it's discontinued it seems so I'm enjoying it for now.

For your 1st: I assume you're trying to stay at 1750? Not big on Warpflame, but I get you're reasoning for bringing it. You actually could bring Changehost if you drop a Pink unit and replace it with a unit of Blues and you have 90 points to play with. Don't doubt yourself on Changehost.. it's not hard to use effectively. Just don't let yourself get baited into deploying Flamers right into someones face or anything unless you can for sure take out an important piece as you may lose them afterwards unless you win priority. If you can trade 140 points for 200+ points or something acting as a force multiplier like, say, a 110-160 point Skryre Wizard that makes Stormfiends do 60% more damage with buffs or that Soulmason giving RR 1's to stuff, etc.

For your 2nd: Pinks are definitely awesome, just remember that you can get 10 Blues for half the price which could come in clutch at the right time... so don't get too caught up on saving for 10 Pinks if you can section off an objective with some Blues as you may lose turn priority and it gets taken from you. Skyfires vs Enlightened is something I struggle with too, but honestly I just find Skyfires easier to use and Destiny Dice can help take out those 5 wound support heroes (Use 2-3 of your 6's to kill it with MW's) and they will still clear pretty much any 10-20 man 5-6+ save screen if they fight first. Enlightened want those re-rolls which makes them riskier to use if you run them into an equally punchy unit. The key in that scenario is to make sure you charge the side of a unit to limit how many things can pile into you... but I mean if we're talking about things like 20 Hearthguard Berserkers even letting 6 of them hit you could remove 2-3 Enlightened. Otherwise, you just strike first and ignore the RR's but you really hamper their output this way.

Ah you know what, the first list I forgot I wanted to ask for advice regarding what to use that last 260 points on, either Be'Lakor or I could try and make a Gaunt Summoner work. I guess I could go Changehost and work a Changecaster and something else in. I'm not sure. I find Flamers to be pretty underwhelming without being buffed, so that's kind of why I'm leaning against Changehost. My friend will probably be playing the run and charge Ossiarch Legion so he can make up 18" really fast.

As for the second list, unless my math is wrong I should be able to do about 12 wounds on average to 4+ save models with a 6+ undead save with the Enlightened, even without the reroll. Like you said I'll try and use them selectively and carefully, but they should make for a great counter punch. I also like to save some fives and sixes for either the Bolt of Change/Pink Fire or save rolls versus the Mortek Crawler.

Thanks for the input.

[Gwendar]

36 minutes ago, Chronos said:

Ah you know what, the first list I forgot I wanted to ask for advice regarding what to use that last 260 points on, either Be'Lakor or I could try and make a Gaunt Summoner work. I guess I could go Changehost and work a Changecaster and something else in. I'm not sure. I find Flamers to be pretty underwhelming without being buffed, so that's kind of why I'm leaning against Changehost. My friend will probably be playing the run and charge Ossiarch Legion so he can make up 18" really fast.

As for the second list, unless my math is wrong I should be able to do about 12 wounds on average to 4+ save models with a 6+ undead save with the Enlightened, even without the reroll. Like you said I'll try and use them selectively and carefully, but they should make for a great counter punch. I also like to save some fives and sixes for either the Bolt of Change/Pink Fire or save rolls versus the Mortek Crawler.

Thanks for the input.

Honestly I would go with Be'lakor if you really want him. Like we've said the last page or so.. he's just great all around for the points just for shutting a unit down which can heavily swing things in your favor if needed. Again, I love the Changecaster on a BW.. but yeah if you don't have access to one he isn't as great. Throwing out those two d6 MW spells at 24" is just wonderful and I especially like it in Hosts Duplicitous for the casting RR's. Oh and I forgot to mention, you can't take Aura of Mutability on the Scribes as it's a named character, as is the Changeling.

The "standard" Changehost list I use looks like this in case you were curious:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Soulscream Bridge (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 82
 

And oh yeah, Enlightened still hit relatively okay without the re-rolls... but the difference between getting them and not is pretty staggering. Definitely try everything out... I think you really need 3-5 games against multiple armies to really gauge what you can start swapping out.

[Sinfullyvannila]

Stacking 2 -to hit debuffs on the intended target makes it pretty safe wait for Visions of the past. Otherwise it’s probably better to use a Fatemaster.

[Chronos]

10 hours ago, Gwendar said:

Honestly I would go with Be'lakor if you really want him. Like we've said the last page or so.. he's just great all around for the points just for shutting a unit down which can heavily swing things in your favor if needed. Again, I love the Changecaster on a BW.. but yeah if you don't have access to one he isn't as great. Throwing out those two d6 MW spells at 24" is just wonderful and I especially like it in Hosts Duplicitous for the casting RR's. Oh and I forgot to mention, you can't take Aura of Mutability on the Scribes as it's a named character, as is the Changeling.

The "standard" Changehost list I use looks like this in case you were curious:

And oh yeah, Enlightened still hit relatively okay without the re-rolls... but the difference between getting them and not is pretty staggering. Definitely try everything out... I think you really need 3-5 games against multiple armies to really gauge what you can start swapping out.

Yeah they Changecaster really seems to be able to punch above his point value. I didn't realize I couldn't give Aura of Mutability to my Blue Scribes! I'll have to tinker with my Eternal Conflag list to fit in a Changecaster. I like your list, and yeah, I need more experience. I got back into Warhammer(AoS) in January so not the best timing. Hopefully with things being relatively good where I am I can get some games in at my FLGS sometime.

8 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Stacking 2 -to hit debuffs on the intended target makes it pretty safe wait for Visions of the past. Otherwise it’s probably better to use a Fatemaster.

Yeah, I wish Arcane Suggestion wasn't such a high cast, and getting no helpful  buffs/debuffs on mortals in a daemon heavy army is frustrating. Maybe if I pulled off some debuffs with the Changeling and Be'Lakor I could wait on the Enlightened. You guys weren't kidding, I didn't realize they reroll all their attacks! They can be straight up unit killers if only one of six die.

I also love the Fatemaster and want to include him, I just find the LoC command ability is too good and I struggle to get CPs.

I'm hoping I can get two games in and try both lists today and tomorrow so I'll report back.

Thanks again.

[Gwendar]

13 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Stacking 2 -to hit debuffs on the intended target makes it pretty safe wait for Visions of the past. Otherwise it’s probably better to use a Fatemaster.

True, I didn't really think about that honestly. Treason (hopefully it will kill at least 1 model) + Enfeeble + Suggestion is a total of -2 to hit and wound which is absurd.

Be'lakor could shut a unit down for the Enlightened to hit, but my question then becomes this: If the opposing unit is shut down and can't attack in the combat phase, are they still counted as having fought for the purposes of the Enlightened RR's? I believe it's a yes as they have to "activate" in order to fight, but the Visions of the Past says they need to have "fought" and not "activate". Curious on others thoughts as I can see people disagreeing with that at a local level by saying "well, they didn't technically fight this turn so you don't get RR's".. so I can see it both way's.

EDIT: Found the answer from someone in Discord. "If the unit affected by Be'Lakors ability is eligible to be selected to fight in the combat phase it must do so as per the core rules. Be'Lakors ability specifically doesn't stop you from fighting it stops you from ATTACKING. The unit affected may still pile in as normal as it has been selected to fight however if it fails the 5+ it cannot ATTACK. As per the core rules that fight sequence therefore ends and the unit affected is then classified as having fought for the purposes of the enlightened."

This is what I assumed was correct, but I wanted to get a straight answer from others before any arguments popped up in my local scene about it.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Gwendar

[Sinfullyvannila]

I usually bring Doomblast Dirgehorn and Geminids in my lists if I run Elightened.

[Gwendar]

20 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

I usually bring Doomblast Dirgehorn and Geminids in my lists if I run Elightened.

Actually yeah, I do run Geminids in my Hosts list.. so I guess that's actually a further -1 I forgot about. At -3 and -2 they may as well not even activate at all 😅

Still, nice to have the Be'lakor\Visions of the Past interaction straightened out. I'll definitely look at trying them in place of the Skyfires this weekend I think.

[Heaven_lord]

Hey !

I have the opportunity to buy a DoT army, is this lot decent to build a good 1000 pts army (mostly for doubles) or even 2000 ?

- Kairos / Lord of change

- Changeling

- Changecaster

- Blue scribes
- 9 flamers
- 20 pinks
- 1 exalted flamer on chariot
- 40 blue horrors
- 40 brimstones

Thanks a lot !

 

Will I need more models for summoning purpose ?

Edited August 20, 2020 by Heaven_lord

[Chronos]

8 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

Hey !

I have the opportunity to buy a DoT army, is this lot decent to build a good 1000 pts army (mostly for doubles) or even 2000 ?

- Kairos / Lord of change

- Changeling

- Changecaster

- Blue scribes
- 9 flamers
- 20 pinks
- 1 exalted flamer on chariot
- 40 blue horrors
- 40 brimstones

Thanks a lot !

 

Will I need more models for summoning purpose ?

This is basically the barebones of what I have, and although I'm not as experienced as most other guys, it seems like it knocks off everything you need to run an Eternal Conflag list, or Hosts Duplicitous list, plus or minus a few other units.

The Eternal Conflag 2000 point list I just ran had all those heroes plus Be'Lakor but he's not necessary, 10 pinks, 10 Blues, 3x3 Flamers and the Exalted. I summoned 3 more Flamers.

I also ran a Host Duplicitous list with all those Heroes plus Be'Lakor and I proxied a Tzangoor Shaman to go along with 6 Enlightened and 20 Acolytes. You'd probably need a couple more units for that, but with 20 Pinks, 40 Blues and 40 Brims I was able to use those 10 Pinks and still summon 10 Blues 3 separate times so you can work with that. If you run 20 Pinks though you'll definitely need more Blues/Brims if you want to summon Blues.

Again I'm no expert but that's about as good as a start as you can get with many auto includes and 2000 points. 1000 points is also a ton of options.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Chronos

[Gwendar]

So, watching some games in Discord last night, heard a nice little bit about a Chosen based list from Kaleb Walters and I fell in love. I couldn't tell what the list was (guy streaming was afk so I couldn't see the list) but had a go at creating my own version:
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Duplicitous

Leaders
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Will of the Phantom Lord
- Artefact: Brand of the Spirit Daemon
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (110)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Chaos Lord (110)
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel

Battleline
10 x Tzaangors (180)
- 2x Pair of Savage Blade
- 4x Savage Greatblade
- 4x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3x Cursed Glaives
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3x Cursed Glaives

Units
10 x Chaos Chosen (280)
10 x Chaos Chosen (280)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Soulscream Bridge (100)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
 

Basically, you have a block of 10 dudes that get RR all hits\wounds from the Sorcerer Lord. Then they auto-charge across the Bridge with Fate Dice which will complete the Reckless Abandon agenda to get +1 attack. Chaos Lord makes them fight twice (if needed) and you have 41 attacks RR'ing everything and 6's to hit are 1 MW in addition to normal damage... averaging out to ~30 damage vs a 4+ save with anywhere from 6-15 of those being straight up MW's. You then have a 2nd block of them in reserve as needed. 280 points for this kind of damage has them punch pretty high above their weight class.

It still follows the standard "firebase" of a Bridge castle with a BW Changecaster that hands out RR's while throwing out 2d6 MW's at 24". Kairos getting those hard-to-reach areas to create an inescapable Chaos Spawn, etc. May try it out some this weekend and get some reports up.. I really like the idea of it and it's something different than 6 Enlightened\Skyfires.

[Hannibal]

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

It still follows the standard "firebase" of a Bridge castle with a BW Changecaster that hands out RR's while throwing out 2d6 MW's at 24". Kairos getting those hard-to-reach areas to create an inescapable Chaos Spawn, etc. May try it out some this weekend and get some reports up.. I really like the idea of it and it's something different than 6 Enlightened\Skyfires.

I like the idea, but what is a BW Changecaster?

[Gwendar]

12 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

I like the idea, but what is a BW Changecaster?

Balewind Changecaster. That's usually how I refer to him since he's always the top pick for it to throw out Pink Fire and Bolt at 24". You can get him down to a 2+ save pretty easily as well; +1 from the BW, +1 from Brand and +1 from Cover if you park it on Terrain as the BW is an endless spell and not terrain like the old version was.

I'm enjoying it while it lasts before it get's put into legends since it's apparently discontinued...

[iogaa]

How viable would a combined arcanite/daemon force be? (Or arcanite/mortals)

I hate how little diversity a list has if it only uses either

I was thinking about taking  two acolytes and one tzaangor unit for battlelines, with some enlightened, screamers and flamers. 

I guess the only coven that would really help is the Cult of the Transient Form, but it wouldn't be that useful.

[obmik1]

14 minutes ago, iogaa said:

How viable would a combined arcanite/daemon force be? (Or arcanite/mortals)

I hate how little diversity a list has if it only uses either

I was thinking about taking  two acolytes and one tzaangor unit for battlelines, with some enlightened, screamers and flamers. 

I guess the only coven that would really help is the Cult of the Transient Form, but it wouldn't be that useful.

Maybe a skyshoal coven in host arcanum? Screamer battleline with tzaangor disk support? Could be fun.  

I run mixed lists all the time. I do well in my local gaming group, but would probably not do so well at an event so it depends on your definition of viable. 

[iogaa]

5 minutes ago, obmik1 said:

I run mixed lists all the time. I do well in my local gaming group, but would probably not do so well at an event so it depends on your definition of viable. 

Thanks, that's reassuring

[iogaa]

5 hours ago, iogaa said:

I guess the only coven that would really help is the Cult of the Transient Form

Now that I think about it, guild of summoners could be really good too, it's the only coven that seems to be intended for mixed armies

[Ganigumo]

12 hours ago, iogaa said:

How viable would a combined arcanite/daemon force be? (Or arcanite/mortals)

I hate how little diversity a list has if it only uses either

I was thinking about taking  two acolytes and one tzaangor unit for battlelines, with some enlightened, screamers and flamers. 

I guess the only coven that would really help is the Cult of the Transient Form, but it wouldn't be that useful.

Cult of the Transient form is really only for people who like Cult of the Transient form. I love it from a narrative perspective, but it doesn't play the way you want it to and has the worst CA/Artifact/Trait in spite of the inconsistent ability. It would really benefit from reductions in cost to the units/battalions it wants to use though.

 

I've been struggling with deciding on how I want to build/paint up my Tzeentch army. Does anyone have any experience with the Beasts of Chaos "Phantasmogoria of Fate" battalion with the Tzeentch allegiance?  The battalion is the same cost as the Tzaangor coven, with a weaker effect, but is a lot less restrictive, and can fit all of your battleline. The battalion can also fit more enlightened skyfires in than I would ever need, but also gives access to Centigors, Dragon Ogors, Bullgors,  bestigors, Cygors, Ghorgons, Tuskgor Chariots, Gors, Ungors, and heroes. I'd plan on bringing at least one Bray shaman(maybe Grashrak?) for the movement buff, but do any of these other units contribute much to Tzeentch?

 

I threw together a couple comparison lists, Phantasmogoria gives me a lot of wiggle room to fit in other things, while Tzaangor coven hits 2k points just by running a single 6x disc enlightened and 2 20x tzaangor units, and you really want the 6x disc enlightened to take advantage of the battalion effect, and tzaangors aren't that strong in 10s.

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
20 x Tzaangors (360)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
Phantasmagoria of Fate (180)

Total: 1110 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened (100)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)
Tzaangor Coven (180)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 152
 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Ganigumo

[Kharl]

Hi,

Preparing my army for a 2k tournament, I am wondering if the Fatemaster is mandatory for an Eternal Conflagration list ?

I tried some maths and seems that it is worth especially if you have negative to hit in front. Am I right?

thx 

[Gwendar]

6 hours ago, Kharl said:

Hi,

Preparing my army for a 2k tournament, I am wondering if the Fatemaster is mandatory for an Eternal Conflagration list ?

I tried some maths and seems that it is worth especially if you have negative to hit in front. Am I right?

thx 

I wouldn't say it's mandatory. Personally, I find that with them hitting\wounding on 2's they get the job done against pretty much anything. If you're shooting at something with Look out, Sir (so 4's to hit with an Exalted nearby) then you can use a CP for RR 1's but generally those support heroes are taken out regardless with 6 Flamers averaging 10 damage vs a 4+ save with Look out, Sir.

The below mathhammer shows the difference between 6 Flamers (hitting\wounding on 2's) and 10 Pink Horrors (hitting\wounding on 4's and 3's) with and without the Fatemasters RR's. Personally, I don't think he's worth 120 points to squeeze out 2-4 more damage out of stuff, but I suppose that all adds up if you have 2 Pink units and all 12 Flamers + Exalted Flamers shooting within that 9" aura.



The below has done reasonably well (10th overall at a large TTS tournament this past weekend going 2-1) but I prefer more wizards and Bridge + Spellportal + BW for my Changehost\Eternal Conflag lists:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Command Trait: Coruscating Flames
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Fatemaster (120)
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 92
 

 

[Kharl]

Thank you!

Very interesting. It confirms my “feeling” that it is worth having it if you really have something that decreases your chance to hit a lot. 
Otherwise, it is very close and hence more flexible to have daemon heroes (+the Locus)

[RUNCMD]

@Gwendar are you using Grafana to display that Data?