AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[RUNCMD]

@Deadkitten nice write up. that's a lot of Horrors to take in a list, would have looked great! I would imagine that playing something like Ogors you would have had more control of objectives and just forced them to deal with the big tar pits, is that right?

I've not used the changeling in any lists or anything atm, do you have any rules of thumb when you use it? Have been thinking of playing it in some mortals lists but just not sure on a strategy to use with it.

[Felldir]

50 minutes ago, RUNCMD said:

Yep, it's in wrath of the Everchosen:

Yeah I knew it was in Wrath, just confused for a minute if it was just another change coven that we could pick then go about our normal business of Tzeentch allegiance abilities, spell lores, etc. 

[Deadkitten]

2 hours ago, RUNCMD said:

@Deadkitten nice write up. that's a lot of Horrors to take in a list, would have looked great! I would imagine that playing something like Ogors you would have had more control of objectives and just forced them to deal with the big tar pits, is that right?

I've not used the changeling in any lists or anything atm, do you have any rules of thumb when you use it? Have been thinking of playing it in some mortals lists but just not sure on a strategy to use with it.

You got it.  

The Horrors have great coverage w CH and play the objective game great.  Don't underestimate the damage 20 Pinks can get out especially w the Aura of Mutability.

Horrors need so much character support I use the Changeling primarily for that.  He a 2 caster with the -1 ability.  I usually play him conservatively behind some Pinks and just drop his -1 ability on anything that decides to tangle w the Pinks he's babysitting.  I want some redundancy with that additional -1 to hit.

Every now and again a mission comes up where it could snipe out a T1 objective but I always chicken out trading him for the extra VP.  I think its a mistake.  If I'm not running a 1 drop, I think I need to watch for when my opponent drops their hammer and deploy him opposite that.

[velveetagamerfuel]

I’m trying to build a Pyrofane Cult list.

so far i have a Tzaangor Shaman, a Thaumaturge, and a Curseling coming in the mail for leaders, 40 acolytes, 10 tzaangors and 3 each of enlightened and skyfires.  How should I fill this out and is there anything i should drop?

[Rellsipels]

27 minutes ago, velveetagamerfuel said:

I’m trying to build a Pyrofane Cult list.

so far i have a Tzaangor Shaman, a Thaumaturge, and a Curseling coming in the mail for leaders, 40 acolytes, 10 tzaangors and 3 each of enlightened and skyfires.  How should I fill this out and is there anything i should drop?

I'm building a Pyrofane Cult list as well. Key heroes in my list is a shooty Lord of Change and a Fatemaster. Stick the relic on the Lord of Change for 2d6 shots that does d3 MW on a 6 to hit. Keep the Fatemaster nearby for re-rolls to hit with his command ability. Since you can choose to re-roll everything but the sixes he can potentially throw out a bucket of MWs. Especially combined with his spell casting. 

[velveetagamerfuel]

3 minutes ago, Rellsipels said:

I'm building a Pyrofane Cult list as well. Key heroes in my list is a shooty Lord of Change and a Fatemaster. Stick the relic on the Lord of Change for 2d6 shots that does d3 MW on a 6 to hit. Keep the Fatemaster nearby for re-rolls to hit with his command ability. Since you can choose to re-roll everything but the sixes he can potentially throw out a bucket of MWs. Especially combined with his spell casting. 

I keep thinking about getting a fatemaster but i hate the model lol.  Was thinking about trying to kitbash one but wouldnt know where to start

[Rellsipels]

1 minute ago, velveetagamerfuel said:

I keep thinking about getting a fatemaster but i hate the model lol.  Was thinking about trying to kitbash one but wouldnt know where to start

Yeeah he really is in need of an update. I'm using this Cypher Lords model as the basis for my conversion. I'll change the weapon to one of the spears from the Tzaangor Enlightened and use a shield from the acolytes somehow. Then maybe add some random tzeentchy stuff. And a disk of course 🙂

[Hyperyon]

23 hours ago, velveetagamerfuel said:

I keep thinking about getting a fatemaster but i hate the model lol.  Was thinking about trying to kitbash one but wouldnt know where to start

Same boat, fatemaster seems a bit meh. Thinking of straight up using ahriman for 40k... Do you guys think it is an ok replacement? 

On a separate note, I was also looking to a very defensive board controlly list with host duplicitous and changehost. Plan would be to tag everything, score a lot of points and hope to high roll on the command ability. Does it have legs? Looks miserable to play but on paper seem quite strong... Am I missing something? 

[MitGas]

17 minutes ago, Hyperyon said:

Same boat, fatemaster seems a bit meh. Thinking of straight up using ahriman for 40k... Do you guys think it is an ok replacement? 

On a separate note, I was also looking to a very defensive board controlly list with host duplicitous and changehost. Plan would be to tag everything, score a lot of points and hope to high roll on the command ability. Does it have legs? Looks miserable to play but on paper seem quite strong... Am I missing something? 

Many Ahrimans end up as Fatemasters out there - it works pretty well. That said, Ahriman has such an iconic helmet, it's hard to see him as anything other than Ahriman. AND that said looking as cool as Ahriman isn't exactly a problem! 

Looking forward to plastic minis for the Curseling and the Fatemaster however... proper Tzeentchian knightly armor will be very sexy indeed!

https://www.google.com/search?q=ahriman+fatemaster&safe=off&rlz=1C5CHFA_enAT785AT785&sxsrf=ALeKk02uCkMAm6dudoD3Lm4Ix5GnssRWZg:1596553332059&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiss-PR6IHrAhWSa8AKHTxQCbEQ_AUoAXoECCIQAw&biw=1809&bih=971#imgrc=ccsx2YlqN1b_LM

Edited August 4, 2020 by MitGas

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 8/3/2020 at 9:35 AM, velveetagamerfuel said:

I’m trying to build a Pyrofane Cult list.

so far i have a Tzaangor Shaman, a Thaumaturge, and a Curseling coming in the mail for leaders, 40 acolytes, 10 tzaangors and 3 each of enlightened and skyfires.  How should I fill this out and is there anything i should drop?

I’d go with a Fatemaster and you definitely need a LoC or Herald of some sort for the Artifact(you’re wasting it with what you got there). Heralds are still a solid choice for that artifact as you’re still getting the same number of opportunities for mortal wounds as with 1 unit of Skyfires.

Thaumaturge is pretty underwhelming. If you can get a Battalion though, he can be good with the artifact that gives you destiny dice on hit rolls of sixes. You don’t really need the Skyfires because you get their MW ability on your leader but they are ok.  They’re still good for making your opponent choose between them and the artifact bearer and can still cap some cheeky objectives late game. Remember since Fatemaster let’s you reroll all hits you can reroll the normal successes and hope for more 6’s with those.

 

I’m assuming those Enlightened are on a disc? Get another 3 IMO.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[RareDesire]

Hello.

Im considering staring a Tzeentch army. im wondering if the Start Collecting is a good?

And also going from there into a more competitive list?

Thanks for the help

[RUNCMD]

4 hours ago, RareDesire said:

Hello.

Im considering staring a Tzeentch army. im wondering if the Start Collecting is a good?

And also going from there into a more competitive list?

Thanks for the help

Really depends on if you want to go Daemons, Mortals or a mix of both? If you want to go Daemons and you're working towards a 2k list then x2 Start collecting boxes are great value!

If you want the current meta of Tzeentch then Changehost is your go to go Daemon Competitive lists. But that doesn't mean to say that there isn't other competitive Tzeentch lists out there, it's just the kinda Vanilla go to of competitive, at the present.
 

[velveetagamerfuel]

14 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

I’d go with a Fatemaster and you definitely need a LoC or Herald of some sort for the Artifact(you’re wasting it with what you got there). Heralds are still a solid choice for that artifact as you’re still getting the same number of opportunities for mortal wounds as with 1 unit of Skyfires.

Thaumaturge is pretty underwhelming. If you can get a Battalion though, he can be good with the artifact that gives you destiny dice on hit rolls of sixes. You don’t really need the Skyfires because you get their MW ability on your leader but they are ok.  They’re still good for making your opponent choose between them and the artifact bearer and can still cap some cheeky objectives late game. Remember since Fatemaster let’s you reroll all hits you can reroll the normal successes and hope for more 6’s with those.

 

I’m assuming those Enlightened are on a disc? Get another 3 IMO.

If i wanna go the herald route as a vehicle for chainfire does it matter which one?  Or are they roughly interchangeable?  LoC is probably the best option i know but its also a lot of money and im not huge on painting huge models

[Sinfullyvannila]

2 hours ago, velveetagamerfuel said:

If i wanna go the herald route as a vehicle for chainfire does it matter which one?  Or are they roughly interchangeable?  LoC is probably the best option i know but its also a lot of money and im not huge on painting huge models

I’d do the on-foot one just to keep it cheap points wise.

[Sinfullyvannila]

Also; I really don’t think that the LoC is a must take over the herald in the Pyrofane list either(even though I use him in one so that I have a use for my LoC since I don’t play Changehost). He doesn’t offer the synergies that he would in a Daemon Heavy list and you can pump out a lot more wounds with Enlightened and a lot more table presence with extra battleline. You can get either of these and a Battalion upgrade for the cost difference.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[velveetagamerfuel]

25 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Also; I really don’t think that the LoC is a must take over the herald in the Pyrofane list either(even though I use him in one so that I have a use for my LoC since I don’t play Changehost). He doesn’t offer the synergies that he would in a Daemon Heavy list and you can pump out a lot more wounds with Enlightened and a lot more table presence with extra battleline. You can get either of these and a Battalion upgrade for the cost difference.

Thats true for the same cost i could get a changecaster, 10 pinks to screen my acolytes and an extra command point or endless spell or any number of other things

[Ragest]

Oh is nice to see another one trying the pyrofane. I’ve prepared a list with Tzangoor Shaman, Magister, Fatemaster and Ogroid, with 2 units of 20 Acolyts, 10 Tzangoors, 6 Enlightened and 3 Skyfires.

I’m still waiting for a game to try it, but looks pretty fun.

[RUNCMD]

Have a game coming up soon (hopefully no lock down cancellations) and will be running the following:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Command Trait: Shrouded in Unnatural Flame
- Artefact: Chainfire Amulet
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)

Units
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)

Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (160)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

Should have enough fate points for some late game summoning (hopefully) and to bring in a unit of them pinks. Not sure if I should be taking the Fatemaster or not instead of the Fluxmaster but the thing with the Fluxmaster is that it is better suited to follow the Flamers and Buff them up.

Should probably try and squeeze in the Balewind but I dont think it's imperative really.

Will try and remember what happens to write up a battle report.

[Chronos]

Hello, first post.

I wanted to get some advice on playing Tzeentch. I'm still new to AoS, but have my 2000 point force and have played some games with it so far against my friends Bonereapers, and as things open open hopefully against other armies.

We played a game last night, the Battle for the Pass scenario 2019, where you play on the table longways. I took a pretty standard Changehost with:

Lord of Change(General) - Tzeentch's Firestorm

Blue Scribes(Aura of Mutability) - Bolt of Tzeentch

Changeling - Fold Reality

2x10 Pinks

1x6 and 2x3 Flamers

Exalted Flamer

Daemonic Simulacrum

My friend took Arkhan(first time playing him), Kavalos, Boneshaper, 1x20 Mortek, 2x10 Mortek, 2x5 Deathriders, Crawler, and a Harvester and used the Legion which allows run and charge. I gave him first turn which may have been a mistake.

At 1500 points a couple weeks ago I beat him pretty well on the old rules(Petrafex) using a Gaunt Summoner, but really having the Fatemaster helped, and I thought I would again. This game he turned the tables which gets to my questions:

What do you find is the best way to fight against fast armies? In this case his Deathriders had such a huge threat range and playing length wise he took up a lot of the table. We also had a lot of forest terrain which we said didn't hinder movement but did LOS if you weren't in it which really hurt me. I really don't know how terrain works for AoS.

What's the best way to use Pinks? They were an amazing tar-pit for me but I'm thinking I didn't get them close enough to objectives initially and spread them out enough. I thought they would do more damage, but I wasn't able to get any buffs really other than Locust and once Puckish Misdirection. 

Now what about Flamers? They are awesome when supported and I figured I could take Arkhan out in one go from 6 of them, but it never happened. Is 12 to many?

Leading to my next question, what's the best way to keep them safe? Screen behind the Pinks and blast away? I feel like I can't move them around to capture objective or have any board presence because they are so fragile.

I also wasn't able to use the Changehost ability because it seemed like if I teleported any Flamers, they would stand a very good chance of getting charged when he can run and charge.

And what about board presence? I had 35 models on the board versus close to 60 including some big, high wound units. It seemed like his army was everywhere and I was just stuck behind the Horrors.

Anyway, I'm not asking to know how to beat my friend or Ossiarch, but I find he did a great job exploiting my weaknesses. I think playing a more standard, horizontal mission would have helped me spread out the armies and use the distance to my advantage, but those Deathriders have a huge range. I also probably gave Arkhan too much respect. He didn't do too much, but neither did my Lord of Change. I also rolled insanely poorly, which happens. Actually, my Destiny Dice were 5-4-4-2222-11. I also had a unit of 3 Flamers do 10 shots and I'm not kidding, hit with one on a 3+. It was bad. Lord of Change missed Infernal Gateway and Tzeentch's Firestorm in the same turn even with +2 to cast. Yikes.

Now, I'm rambling a bit, but I've lurked here for a while and I've seen really good discussions, and I appreciate any comments or help. Lastly though, I'm toying with the idea of dropping a unit of 3 Flamers and running 9(3x3), the endless spell, which would free me up enough to get another unit of 10 Pinks, or make a unit of 20. I'm also wondering if it's worth it to run the Fatemaste in this type of list and drop either the Changeling or Blue Scribes, but I really like what both of those bring, and I usually never have more than one command point a turn.

Thanks!

 

[Malakithe]

5 hours ago, RUNCMD said:

Have a game coming up soon (hopefully no lock down cancellations) and will be running the following:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Command Trait: Shrouded in Unnatural Flame
- Artefact: Chainfire Amulet
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman (150)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)

Units
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)

Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (160)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

Should have enough fate points for some late game summoning (hopefully) and to bring in a unit of them pinks. Not sure if I should be taking the Fatemaster or not instead of the Fluxmaster but the thing with the Fluxmaster is that it is better suited to follow the Flamers and Buff them up.

Should probably try and squeeze in the Balewind but I dont think it's imperative really.

Will try and remember what happens to write up a battle report.

I feel your kinda missing the point of the whole Pyrofane + Witchfyre combo. Youll want waaaaay more Acolytes

[RUNCMD]

21 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

I feel your kinda missing the point of the whole Pyrofane + Witchfyre combo. Youll want waaaaay more Acolytes

Yeah when the LOC is dropped I bump the KAs up to x2 20 model blocks and just sub in a Curesling or something with the remaining points, but thats more competitive lists, this one will be a friendly match really.

I'm also keen to see how a big block of flamers go as I've not run them that high before really.

[Chronos]

Do you guys think it's always a given to take a Battalion at 2000 points?

[Tasman]

20 hours ago, Chronos said:

Do you guys think it's always a given to take a Battalion at 2000 points?

I do. Changehost fits in (although it's a bit tight now). It ends up being 1 drop.

[Frowny]

Has anyone tried out overseers fate twisters? Lots of things you might want anyway, but also not too much room for Battleline..... But that ability is awesome.

[frostfire]

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
Fateskimmer, Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (140)
The Blue Scribes (120)
The Changeling (140)
Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc(130)
- General
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)

Units
1 x Burning Chariots of Tzeentch (150)
1 x Burning Chariots of Tzeentch (150)
1 x Burning Chariots of Tzeentch (150)

Battalions
Overseer's Fate-twisters (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 70
 

Something like this would be a good start for a OFT list.