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How does chainfire amulet work with multiple attacks? It says that on a 6, the attack sequence ends and you don’t make any to wound or save rolls.Does that mean that if I hit 3 times, if one of the to hit rolls is a 6, the other two successful hits are ignored?

It seems to read that way, although if that is the case, it would appear to be extremely mediocre for a ranged general like a Lord of Change with rod.

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2 hours ago, Ggom said:

How does chainfire amulet work with multiple attacks? It says that on a 6, the attack sequence ends and you don’t make any to wound or save rolls.Does that mean that if I hit 3 times, if one of the to hit rolls is a 6, the other two successful hits are ignored?

It seems to read that way, although if that is the case, it would appear to be extremely mediocre for a ranged general like a Lord of Change with rod.

The attack sequence ends for that attack.

It means you don't roll to wound for that attack and it only deals the d3 mortals.

Its worded much like gloomspite's spider venom rules.

As opposed to the khorne bloodletter rule that gives a mortal on a 6 to hit, but you still get to continue the attack (roll to wound, save, etc.)

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19 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The attack sequence ends for that attack.

It means you don't roll to wound for that attack and it only deals the d3 mortals.

Its worded much like gloomspite's spider venom rules.

As opposed to the khorne bloodletter rule that gives a mortal on a 6 to hit, but you still get to continue the attack (roll to wound, save, etc.)

But what if I rolled other successful hits that are not 6s? Do they also end with no effect, or do I get to proceed with wound and saves for those other successful hits?

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4 minutes ago, Ggom said:

But what if I rolled other successful hits that are not 6s? Do they also end with no effect, or do I get to proceed with wound and saves for those other successful hits?

Each attack is individual so you would continue the attack sequence for each dice roll as appropriate

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So, now that the Gaunt Summoner has been nerfed and the units he summons to the battlefield all cost 110 points... what is the consensus/mathhammer on what should be played? Five pinks for a 25-wounds roadblock? Bloodletters? Daemonettes?

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@Maserdom Depends on your list and how you're building it I think. Pinks are still great for 5, because it's just that road block like you said, but if youre after a more aggressive build/trying to get something quickly into your opponents face, then Daemonette's all the way. Their value is completely under rated I think, they have some amazing abilities and a decent threat range with the ability to be able to run and charge, re-roll charges with the banner bearer and theyre not that bad in combat either. Put them in the Host Dup (so people cant retreat from 3 inches away) and youre laughing if you take either or!

I've been bringing them in a few games here and their when they work with my list and I think theyre great.

Plaugebearers are another decent roadblock sitting on a 5+ save then another 5+ after, but Bloodletters I dont see the need for.

Edited by RUNCMD
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Thanks man, I think that I'll go with the Daemonettes.

The unavoidable 9'' charge if you summon them near the enemy lines as a hammer is bad, with no way of auto-improving the result through innate +1 or whatever to the charge roll, but I don't see much else.

From what I gathered, still, the Daemonettes/Bloodletters/... can't use Destiny Dice because they aren't Tzeentch models, right?

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Apologies mate, my comment about Host Dup only applies to Pinks because they will be the only ones with the Tzeentch keyword.

Correct in saying that the Daemonette's won't get the ability to use destiny dice because they do not have the Tzeentch keyword and would count towards Allies.

 

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Hi guys, I am looking to jump onto the birdwagon for my next tournament season. Currently what do you guys think it is the way to go for competitve tzeentch?

This is a initial draft of changehost - conflagration that I was considering. Still very much in the air tho.

1 Lord of Change

2 between Blue scribes, fatemaster and Changeling (this is hard)

4x 3 Flamers

2x 10 Pinks

2 Exalted Flamers

 

What do you guys think? Are flamers still a thing?

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10 hours ago, Hyperyon said:

Hi guys, I am looking to jump onto the birdwagon for my next tournament season. Currently what do you guys think it is the way to go for competitve tzeentch?

This is a initial draft of changehost - conflagration that I was considering. Still very much in the air tho.

1 Lord of Change

2 between Blue scribes, fatemaster and Changeling (this is hard)

4x 3 Flamers

2x 10 Pinks

2 Exalted Flamers

 

What do you guys think? Are flamers still a thing?

Changehost/conflag is probably the way that most competitive/meta driven Tzeentch lists will be run for the foreseeable future.  Depends on your goal though. If it is to try win a tournament then this will probably be what you want.

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3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Has anybody played a pure mortals List in their Tzeentch army? (Slaves to Darkness). How did they perform?

I have a list that I've written that is 95% Mortals, the exception is the Blue Scribes.

I havent run it yet, but am aiming to do some proxy matches with it soon, so Ill get back to you about it.

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9 minutes ago, RUNCMD said:

Changehost/conflag is probably the way that most competitive/meta driven Tzeentch lists will be run for the foreseeable future.  Depends on your goal though. If it is to try win a tournament then this will probably be what you want.

I am glad I was on the right track :) cheers mate

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@Hyperyon no problem! There are definitely other competitive Tzeentch lists don't get me wrong. But it all depends what your aim is.

 

Flamers are def still a thing and a gross unit at 9 or so models lol. 

Happy to help where I can if you have other questions.

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Ok so I have one last question. To me, the changehost batallion, despite the steep 9 units costs, seems worth, even if it drives the army into super MSU mode. Do you think I should forget about the batallion and play larger units 9 / 6 flamers, 20 pink blob? Or changehost is the way to go? 

Summoning wise what's a good rule of thumb for Dot? 

Thanks sir 🤙

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2 hours ago, Hyperyon said:

Ok so I have one last question. To me, the changehost batallion, despite the steep 9 units costs, seems worth, even if it drives the army into super MSU mode. Do you think I should forget about the batallion and play larger units 9 / 6 flamers, 20 pink blob? Or changehost is the way to go? 

Summoning wise what's a good rule of thumb for Dot? 

Thanks sir 🤙

You can get a big blob of 20 Pinks into CH, you just need to dial back the Flamers a bit.  CH is too good not run if you're trying to be as competitive as possible.

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This is my current list, I really wish I could fit Geminids or a Fluxmaster (to carry the Aura of Mutability) in but I think this is the best I can do with the models I own;

Eternal Conflagration 

Lord of Change (General, Coruscating Flames, Aura of Mutability), The Changeling, The Blue Scribes, Fatemaster (Shroud of Warpflame) 

2x10 Pink Horrors, 3x3 Flamers, 1 Exalted Flamer 

Changehost, Prismatic Palisade, Umbral Spellportal 

2000 points on the nose. I've considered switching the Palisade for either Quicksilver Swords or Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws for some extra mortal wound output, but with shooting on the rise I feel the Palisade can be a good defensive tool/movement blocker. 

Edited by Jaskier
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@Hyperyon I agree w @Deadkitten on this one. It's a one drop battalion and they're really powerful atm.

In terms of summoning, it depends on what you want to do and if youre willing to play the longer game for some Tzeentch Lists.

Looking at your list you'll be at between 3-5 Fate points each turn, depending on who you play and their spells. If you want to build in some summoning as well I'd suggest taking more casters as well.. You can bring in an exalted Flamer at 12 points but all summoning needs to be brought in off a hero so as long as your LOC is still good you should be fine for some turn 3 summoning... I'm starting to bank my points and keep a Hero a live as much as possible and then throw a 10 man unit of Pinks (for 20 fate points, pretty exxy) on the board for some late game help really.

The Blue scribes and Changeling are pretty squishy hey. so dont expect them to stick around if they get shot or charged imo. unless you chuck the bluescribes on a balewind, which would be my suggestion if you can fit it in?

My Changehost looks a lil different but focuses on Fatepoints/Summoning late game for another unit of Pinks or even Flamers. It casts 9 spells first turn, noting that by the time my opponent has chipped away at some pinks (x2 10 model units in the list) that i'll lose their ability to cast, so also somewhat relies on the opponent bringing some casts as well. By Turn 3 my idea is that I should (granted not all of my heros are d e d) have somewhere between 16-20 fate points to bring that unit of Pinks in. That's a pretty big risk to wait and take late game! But can be worth it really. But I could also bring in x2 units of Blues or x2 units of screamers if needed to then get some more coverage!

Hope this helps.

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53 minutes ago, Jaskier said:

How highly do you guys rate Geminids for Changehost builds? I'm trying to write an Eternal Conflagration list and fitting in Geminids means down-grading heroes like the Changeling to regular old Changecasters to fit the list into 2000 points, but the extra -1 to-hit for a -2 penalty in shooting or combat seems like it might be worth the trade-off. Thoughts? 

This is my current list, I think Geminids is probably not worth the trade-off in this particular instance; 

Eternal Conflagration 

Lord of Change (General, Coruscating Flames, Aura of Mutability), The Changeling, The Blue Scribes, Fatemaster (Shroud of Warpflame) 

2x10 Pink Horrors, 3x3 Flamers, 1 Exalted Flamer 

Changehost, Prismatic Palisade, Umbral Spellportal 

2000 points on the nose. I've considered switching the Palisade for either Quicksilver Swords or Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws for some extra mortal wound output, but with shooting on the rise I feel the Palisade can be a good defensive tool/movement blocker. 

I think Geminids has it's place, but the chance that it will come back and be used against you is a bit worrying atm, spesh with something like Horrors and how theyre currently going with their to Hit stats. I think it'd be great if you're going to use the LOC to just take them off the board once youve used them but its a big risk to take. I previously used them, but after poor positioning on my part I learnt how quickly it can come back in your face.

I think the same for swords! Being better against a Chaos army can hinder us pretty badly lol. spesh if used on a Hero.

I'm personally a huge fan of the Burning Sigil at the moment. might not be the best choice Tournament wise/competitively but the randomness and what it can do is always a lot of fun. 

What are you sending down Umbral? because if you send geminids or the swords down it thatd be cool and keep you out of danger.

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12 hours ago, RUNCMD said:

I think Geminids has it's place, but the chance that it will come back and be used against you is a bit worrying atm, spesh with something like Horrors and how theyre currently going with their to Hit stats. I think it'd be great if you're going to use the LOC to just take them off the board once youve used them but its a big risk to take. I previously used them, but after poor positioning on my part I learnt how quickly it can come back in your face.

I think the same for swords! Being better against a Chaos army can hinder us pretty badly lol. spesh if used on a Hero.

I'm personally a huge fan of the Burning Sigil at the moment. might not be the best choice Tournament wise/competitively but the randomness and what it can do is always a lot of fun. 

What are you sending down Umbral? because if you send geminids or the swords down it thatd be cool and keep you out of danger.

That is something I keep thinking of, especially as I'll probably be wanting to use the Lord of Change's auto-dispel on the Spellportals so he can keep moving up and summoning them as necessary. At the very least the to-hit debuff being stacked on my own units is the last thing I'd want as a shooting list! I really want to try the Daemonic Simulacrum but can't quite fit the points for it, otherwise I'd definitely be using that. I'll probably mostly be using the Spellportals for Infernal Gateway and sniping heroes, an average 6 mortal wounds from a single cast is just so strong. I can't imagine running a Lord of Change without a Spellportal for that reason, similar to Nagash. 

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@Jaskier I made some tweaks to your list, as I really liked what you were doing, so here it is with some short analysis as well, just food for thought:

image.png.9e8e2a77aa2dd320fcbe52021944760a.png

So I dropped your fatemaster and chucked in the Magister on foot so a couple of reasons:

- Fatemaster command ability is nice, but it will burn your CPs for the LOCs CA, and also the CA inbuilt to internal conflag, making people Minus 2 to bravery! Seriously this comes in handy way more than people think, coupled with the Pinks Hornerblower forcing re-reolls of 1 for your enemy this is a decent combo! The thing I love on the fatemaster is his ability for re-rolling Hits rolls in both Melee and Shooting, but unless you're using this all the time and can keep stuff like your unit of Horrors within the 9' bubble, it might not be that effective!

- Bring in the Magister (either on foot or on disc whichever you prefer really) to essentially do what Geminids does with an additional spell from the book Arcane Suggestion. Check it out if you haven't already, but it does what Geminids does but in my opiniong, better, because it doesn't come back in your face, you have 3 different options to choose from for when you need it most aaaaaand it can still go down the Umbral allowing you to have that LOC use its auto dispell when you need / want to! The only downside here is that Magister on foot is pretty squishy so could be ded to shooting etc. Magister on disc is 40 points extra (140) and might be worth taking if you want additional movement shenanigans. The other cool thing about magisters is that they can cause some Chaos Spawn to come in off their inbuilt spell as well... just a cool feature really.

I also think that taking the Balewind to get an extra spell and add additional range to spells plus the extra save on something like the blue scribes is pretty gnarly for only 40 points and is well worth it for something like fold reality! Highly recommend considering it!

 

Anyways - interested to hear what you think. but like I said, these suggestions are just food for thought :)

 

 

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Played this vs Ogors yesterday.  Blades Edge.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration
Lord of Change (380)
The Changeling (140)
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (440)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
Changehost (180)
Extra Command Point (50)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94
 

He had 2 Stonehorns, the Pot, 3 vanilla ogor units, big unit of shooty ones and a big unit of choppy ones.

I gave him first turn and he just moved up.  I did pull the Changeling and teleported a unit of 10 Pinks on a flank w the Changeling in support opposite the big unit of choppy ogors.  Next turn, they took the bait.  Even with the Changeling, they did just enough to damage to get the Icon.  Next turn, I teleported the Blues away to grab an undefended objective.  I backed the changeling off hoping to draw the ogors out of contention for objectives but that was a no go.  I teleported the Changeling the next turn to summon blues to screen an objective.  In the end, this play took up most all of my  teleports.  It did buy me a couple rounds of relief from the big stabby unit supporting the stonehorns, but I'm not sure it was worth the investment.

The stonehorns + an ogor unit charged my 20 Pinks that had a screen of  Brimms, backed up by the changecaster and LOC.  I was also able to get the other 10 Pinks to put shots into the Stonehorns.  Still, they did a lot of damage and cleared out the Pinks.  I think I made a mistake not popping Geminids, but it would have been out of the LOC Dispel range to pull it off.  I was able to do this the next turn and was eventually able to grind through the Stonehorns but it took me a turn longer than I thought it would.  Still, it constituted the biggest threat by far and without any support from the Choppy or shooty ofor units, it was just a matter of time.  

On my left were the other 2 Ogor units and the big shooty unit.  I had the 20 Blues that I teleported over from the choppy ogors and a unit of brims.  A highlight was 9 Brimms holding an objective from 4 ogors.  I had to commit the Bird and destiny diced the sword through to clear out the ogors.  He would eventually die to the  Leadbelchers but by then I was enough ahead on VPs and the blob in the center had dealt with the Stonehorns.  I would have been able to take a chunk out of the Shooty ogors to make them ineffective.  We called it here.

Overall not bad.  I think I again misplayed the Changeling.  it feels like he needs to be in the action and I had him off on a sideshow.  I've made some aesthetic and FLGS casual balance decisions which leaves him as my only real means of supporting Pinks if I want to project them out other than the Bird. 

 

Edited by Deadkitten
EDIT: OK I JUST now realized that the Changecaster should have been a Fluxmaster. opps.
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