AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Okonomiyakimarine]

On 3/20/2020 at 1:30 PM, Myzyrael said:

 

Tzeentch-2000.pdf 5.73 MB · 18 downloads

it's a pity there's no battalions that cater to mixed tzeentch. I'd love to play a flying screamer-skyfire-list.

regarding your list: i am some newbie, but I wonder about two possible points of optimization

1. with that many acolytes why did you choose not to pay for the witchfyre coven battalion to go with your pyrofane cult? Is it that bad for the points? You double your sorcerous bolts and go down quite a few drops.

2. acolytes profit from a nearby hero quite a bit with the pyrofane command ability. you have plenty of units that qualify as battleline, so i'd try having one bigger unit to go with whatever hero you plan to go with them.

Another point: I assume GS summons a second blob of horrors? There is a ton of units that occupy space and zone out flanking units, so I'd look for something punchier and probably something that shoots. skyfires are not OP any longer, but appear quite ok to snipe and may even do well in melee, if they have to.

[Myzyrael]

On 3/26/2020 at 1:15 PM, Okonomiyakimarine said:

it's a pity there's no battalions that cater to mixed tzeentch. I'd love to play a flying screamer-skyfire-list.

regarding your list: i am some newbie, but I wonder about two possible points of optimization

1. with that many acolytes why did you choose not to pay for the witchfyre coven battalion to go with your pyrofane cult? Is it that bad for the points? You double your sorcerous bolts and go down quite a few drops.

2. acolytes profit from a nearby hero quite a bit with the pyrofane command ability. you have plenty of units that qualify as battleline, so i'd try having one bigger unit to go with whatever hero you plan to go with them.

Another point: I assume GS summons a second blob of horrors? There is a ton of units that occupy space and zone out flanking units, so I'd look for something punchier and probably something that shoots. skyfires are not OP any longer, but appear quite ok to snipe and may even do well in melee, if they have to.

I’ll try to explain my ideas and we can use this as a Basis for more discussion.

In my area, people tend to play many lists with elements that hit really hard, even ranged / alphas / ... So any unit that hits hard gets severely crippled early on. 
 

I thought then ok let’s leave out anything that is a significant threat and flood the board with bodies instead. The enemy should not know where to strike apart from chewing through my chaff. If they go for the bird it’s hard due to the minus one (though one lone Bastiladon killed it in one round). If they go for the Bestigors, the chaff will stay one more turn. If they go for the chaff the spells and Bestigors can do some harm. So target saturation was the overall concern.

 

The batallion seems nice and goes well with the Host. But it would fit only one larger unit and force mit into 100/200 points of easy to remove Enlightened. 
and with that many drops, reducing them by 3-4 doesn’t look promising to me ... I might be wrong though.
 

i am unhappy with the few endless spells and the relatively few good mages. But I don’t know where to carve out points without removing either chaff or the bird. And the latter is my only reliable source of ca. 10MW per turn. So I think of trying to apply as many -1 as possible to hard hitters, flood the board for at least 3 turns and then hope to have reduced one flank enough to be ahead in points. 
 

Feel free to suggest more changes, I’m also working on tweaking the list, trying to get more casters and/or endless in there. Removing the horrors for a second Gaunt could be worthwhile as with that many units at least Melee alphas should be no concern. 
 

 

Edit: so here’s another take on the list:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Lord of Change (380)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)
- Allies
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)
- Allies
20 x Bestigors (240)
- Allies
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 118
 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Myzyrael

[5kaven5lave]

The missus has just picked up Seraphon so might crack out my Tzeentch for the first time since the old book so we can have some wizard wars. Looking for a list that’s fun and not completely gimped but not obnoxious either. Obviously can’t get any more models at the moment but I do have the horror heroes and chariots as well. Would this fit the bill?

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Command Trait: Coruscating Flames  
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame  
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
The Burning Head (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 82
 

[Okonomiyakimarine]

4 hours ago, Myzyrael said:

I’ll try to explain my ideas and we can use this as a Basis for more discussion.

In my area, people tend to play many lists with elements that hit really hard, even ranged / alphas / ... So any unit that hits hard gets severely crippled early on. 
 

I thought then ok let’s leave out anything that is a significant threat and flood the board with bodies instead. The enemy should not know where to strike apart from chewing through my chaff. If they go for the bird it’s hard due to the minus one (though one lone Bastiladon killed it in one round). If they go for the Bestigors, the chaff will stay one more turn. If they go for the chaff the spells and Bestigors can do some harm. So target saturation was the overall concern.

 

The batallion seems nice and goes well with the Host. But it would fit only one larger unit and force mit into 100/200 points of easy to remove Enlightened. 
and with that many drops, reducing them by 3-4 doesn’t look promising to me ... I might be wrong though.
 

i am unhappy with the few endless spells and the relatively few good mages. But I don’t know where to carve out points without removing either chaff or the bird. And the latter is my only reliable source of ca. 10MW per turn. So I think of trying to apply as many -1 as possible to hard hitters, flood the board for at least 3 turns and then hope to have reduced one flank enough to be ahead in points. 
 

Feel free to suggest more changes, I’m also working on tweaking the list, trying to get more casters and/or endless in there. Removing the horrors for a second Gaunt could be worthwhile as with that many units at least Melee alphas should be no concern. 
 

 

Spoiler

 

Edit: so here’s another take on the list:

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Lord of Change (380)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)
- Allies
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)
- Allies
20 x Bestigors (240)
- Allies
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 118

 

 

I see where you are coming from, zoning out against alpha strikes and doing something like one thousand cuts rather than one big strike etc.  Still doubling up the potential for Sorcerous Bolt sounds good, when you plan on taking lots of Kairic Acolytes. Or rather looks good on paper, I have not played any arcane lists.
 I took your list and tailored it to my personal liking, unsure if it has any potential really, but it has the same amount of wounds and potential for zoning out. It brings better shooting with the now bigger number of acolytes and switches out the bestigors and the second GS of course.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
The Blue Scribes (120)
The Changeling (120)
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)

Battleline
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened (200)
10 x Ungor Raiders of Tzeentch (80)
10 x Ungor Raiders of Tzeentch (80)

Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117

Edited March 27, 2020 by Okonomiyakimarine

[WargamerRyguy]

4 hours ago, Okonomiyakimarine said:

I see where you are coming from, zoning out against alpha strikes and doing something like one thousand cuts rather than one big strike etc.  Still doubling up the potential for Sorcerous Bolt sounds good, when you plan on taking lots of Kairic Acolytes. Or rather looks good on paper, I have not played any arcane lists.
 I took your list and tailored it to my personal liking, unsure if it has any potential really, but it has the same amount of wounds and potential for zoning out. It brings better shooting with the now bigger number of acolytes and switches out the bestigors and the second GS of course.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Pyrofane Cult

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
The Blue Scribes (120)
The Changeling (120)
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)

Battleline
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
20 x Kairic Acolytes (200)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened (200)
10 x Ungor Raiders of Tzeentch (80)
10 x Ungor Raiders of Tzeentch (80)

Battalions
Witchfyre Coven (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117

I have a few questions regarding this list since its very similar to one that I've been drafting up and wanting to play. 

First off, I notice the changeling and other hero choices are being taken over other options like the Fatemaster and as curious to know if you think taking one in a heavy shooting acolyte list was worth it. I know it costs a cp each time, but to be able to reroll the hits of a lot of those shots, particularly from the +1 to hit buff from the coven makes them even more powerful in their strengths. 

How do you get the Ungor of Tzeentch without allying them? I figured they required the Phantasmagoria Battalion to be taken because I didn't see them being able to be marked. Do you think its worth taking the Enlightened on disc? A unit of 6 is very strong with the new agenda system.

The Lord of Change with Rod of Sorcery is the most prime target in the battletome to receive the Chainfire Amulet, making him even more of a mobile artillery unit. 

I feel like the point of the Pyrofane coven with the Wytchfire Coven is to allow the acolytes as many chances to unleash their Sorcerous bolts in as many phases as possible to overwhelm your opponent with dice rolls. Still trying to figure out the best way to do that though...

[Tasman]

12 hours ago, WargamerRyguy said:

I have a few questions regarding this list since its very similar to one that I've been drafting up and wanting to play. 

First off, I notice the changeling and other hero choices are being taken over other options like the Fatemaster and as curious to know if you think taking one in a heavy shooting acolyte list was worth it. I know it costs a cp each time, but to be able to reroll the hits of a lot of those shots, particularly from the +1 to hit buff from the coven makes them even more powerful in their strengths. 

How do you get the Ungor of Tzeentch without allying them? I figured they required the Phantasmagoria Battalion to be taken because I didn't see them being able to be marked. Do you think its worth taking the Enlightened on disc? A unit of 6 is very strong with the new agenda system.

The Lord of Change with Rod of Sorcery is the most prime target in the battletome to receive the Chainfire Amulet, making him even more of a mobile artillery unit. 

I feel like the point of the Pyrofane coven with the Wytchfire Coven is to allow the acolytes as many chances to unleash their Sorcerous bolts in as many phases as possible to overwhelm your opponent with dice rolls. Still trying to figure out the best way to do that though...

The Ungor are obviously allies...... at least they can be.

[Myzyrael]

21 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

The missus has just picked up Seraphon so might crack out my Tzeentch for the first time since the old book so we can have some wizard wars. Looking for a list that’s fun and not completely gimped but not obnoxious either. Obviously can’t get any more models at the moment but I do have the horror heroes and chariots as well. Would this fit the bill?

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Command Trait: Coruscating Flames  
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame  
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
The Burning Head (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 82
 

This looks like a fun list, and you have a lot of bodies to contest objectives. If she is going to use bastiladons with the double shooting, she will unfortunately kick your *** I don't know why they kept the extra damage against deamons, this is so stupid in a more mature and competitive AoS setting.. Had a game against the new seraphs before the lockdown and lost 1200 points in the first battle round alone due to shooting and magic. The global unbind with the slann and all the bonus to cast and unbind (easily +3) make it really hard for us "casters". If you have CP however, the horrors will ruin her day for a few rounds! (at least if you have all the blues and brims for splitting and summoning) You might want to change the pendulum against the lifeswarm to heal back horros for more casting and/or longer objective contest.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Myzyrael

[Okonomiyakimarine]

21 hours ago, WargamerRyguy said:

I have a few questions regarding this list since its very similar to one that I've been drafting up and wanting to play. 

First off, I notice the changeling and other hero choices are being taken over other options like the Fatemaster and as curious to know if you think taking one in a heavy shooting acolyte list was worth it. I know it costs a cp each time, but to be able to reroll the hits of a lot of those shots, particularly from the +1 to hit buff from the coven makes them even more powerful in their strengths. 

How do you get the Ungor of Tzeentch without allying them? I figured they required the Phantasmagoria Battalion to be taken because I didn't see them being able to be marked. Do you think its worth taking the Enlightened on disc? A unit of 6 is very strong with the new agenda system.

The Lord of Change with Rod of Sorcery is the most prime target in the battletome to receive the Chainfire Amulet, making him even more of a mobile artillery unit. 

I feel like the point of the Pyrofane coven with the Wytchfire Coven is to allow the acolytes as many chances to unleash their Sorcerous bolts in as many phases as possible to overwhelm your opponent with dice rolls. Still trying to figure out the best way to do that though...

So this list is not tested, obviously, and was developed based on the list provided.

let's quickly go through the very valid points you brought up:

1. Ungors:

9 hours ago, Tasman said:

The Ungor are obviously allies...... at least they can be.

2. Lord of Change is always a possible target, would you say it is more of a target here and how?

edit 1: Ok, misunderstood "target", yes makes sense…

3. Changeling: Thought process is the following: We have a list here that is on the one side way shootier than before due to the battalion. On the other hand due to the points spend for the battalion it is also more reliant on the shooting and lacks tarpit units and in this case (me taking away the bestigors) it lacks sort of punchy melee units for tarpitting. So what to do about speedy melee units that may be used to actually kill important units on my side or occupy my big blobs of acolytes? For the points there is nothing that brings much to the table really (melee/tarpit). So the idea is to use the changeling as a slow down (plus -1 to hit against the target) within 9" and get of an attack/endless spell into something. Since I can get the changeling into the opponents deployment zone it will be effective from the beginning. Of course everything could potentially be zoned out just perfectly, but it is a 32mm base, you might find a spot where it is useful. The fatemaster on the other hand has there'll to hit command ability – which of course is sweet – only for units wholly (!) within 9" iirc and its not easy to get enough kairic acolytes into that zone.

4. Pyromane + wytchfire: It is true and the only reason I suggested the list @Myzyrael. In no way I see it as a min/max list, but since he mentioned  power gamer behavior as a meta I felt I should at least point out that potential, with regards to using kairic acolytes in bigger numbers.

 

edit 2: here's a quick idea on a vanguard force. somewhat inspired by the aether war box. while pink horrors don't fly, I feel like they are necessary here. The beauty of course is the extra horrors and sky sharks from the GS in round one and two. that is 28 extra wounds and quickly a lot of space taken away to help sky fire stay away from swamping units. unless the GS is sniped immediately of course and then i am rather dead anyway. c&c as well as hints regarding what lore to choose is most welcome!

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Hosts Arcanum

Leaders
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner on Disc of Tzeentch (260)
- General
- Artefact: The Fanged Circlet  

Battleline
6 x Screamers of Tzeentch (160)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 50
 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Okonomiyakimarine

[Firefrog]

So, let's get the big dinosaur in the room out of here, Seraphon and how to deal with it? I feel their army is a pure counter to us. Tried my list against a friend of mine who has Seraphon:

My Changehost list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Command Trait: Coruscating Flames
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Fatemaster (120)
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame
The Changeling (120)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)

Units
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 93

His Seraphon list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Saurus Astrolith Bearer (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Warleader
Lord Kroak (320)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Priest (70)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Skink Priest (70)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Knights (100)
- Lances
5 x Saurus Guard (100)
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers

Units
12 x Salamander Hunting Pack (240)

Behemoths
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine
Bastiladon (220)
- Weapon: Solar Engine

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bound The Burning Head (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149

Basically we have no defense against this, Bastiladons can outrange us for 2 turns and even if we changehost near there we can't do any damage to priority targets because of his save of 1 (which ignores rend then, which is just stupidly bad design). Turn 1 he did nothing besides stand out of threat range, I changehosted a unit of 10 pinks and put the changeling near, pinks shot at 5 knights and changeling tried casting (Geminids went off, did some damage to his casters and 1 bastilidon and other spell got dispelled). Killed maybe 1-2 Knights, so nothing fantastic. didn't get double turn, but even if I did everything would still be out of range of his army. So he took his turn, 1 bastilidon was hitting on 6's so barely did anything, the other shot twice and destroyed my Lord of Change, 10 skinks and 5 knights destroyed my Fatemaster, I just forfeit cause I have no spells left to deal with the bastilidons and no range in my own turn (changehost gone). We both concluded I could have done nothing better.

So, since Changehost is so absurdly good it's fine that it has a counter, and we can expect far more Seraphon to counter it at tournaments.

[Arcce]

My other army which is Ogors fought Seraphon and won mostly off points. They are incredibly  resilient  unless you have MWs but they also are such good Wizards that you cant rely on spells to do MWs. 

I will never take a wizard vs them unless I have multiple or they are buffed enough to deal with global denying with +2 to denies. 

My tzeentch list is mortals and tzaangors and I worry how that matchup will go. 

[Grimrock]

5 hours ago, Firefrog said:

So, since Changehost is so absurdly good it's fine that it has a counter, and we can expect far more Seraphon to counter it at tournaments.

I'm not sure if seraphon are a counter to changehost as much as bastiladons are just  a hard counter to chaos daemons in general. They've always sorta been that way and this book they gained a boat load of synergies, so I think it's only gotten worse. It seems like the best way to deal with them is the same as tzeentch is handled. Stay out of range until you can do significant damage and try to focus them down. Once you get through the first damage level they lose immunity to rend, so you can combo some mortal wounds and conventional shooting. After you deal with them... Well then you just need to handle the rest of the army haha. It's a huge uphill struggle for sure.

It's completely beyond me why a competent game developer would keep such a specific counter in the rules. Stuff like this will always mean that a model is either balanced against their intended target and weak against the rest, or balanced against most things and just bonkers OP against their intended target. The only way I could see it working would be if chaos daemons also had something amazing that only worked against order or Seraphon, but of course that's nowhere to be seen.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Grimrock

[Orphen1991]

Hi all guys,

I want to start a Tzeentch army but I'm not sure what to buy and where to start, I surely know I want something mixed between Tzaangor (on disc and on foot) and other Demons of Tzeentch. I suppose I should start from a Tzaangor Shaman as a leader, the Host Arcanum as coven and maybe Tzaangor coven as battalion (so 1 unit of 20/30 Tzaangor, 1 of Enlighted and 1 of Skyfire) but from them? What should I add?

Any suggestion for a fun and pretty solid list?

[5kaven5lave]

Re: Bastiladon

MSU Screamers for movement MWs and D3 damage bites?

Big units of Horrors shooting for lots of weak shots?

I guess the best way to cracking that 2+ unreadable is making them roll loads of saves. 

[Firefrog]

5 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Re: Bastiladon

MSU Screamers for movement MWs and D3 damage bites?

Big units of Horrors shooting for lots of weak shots?

I guess the best way to cracking that 2+ unreadable is making them roll loads of saves. 

Screamers wouldnt be a bad idea, but you would need to do 4 damage to bracket them, and they have -1 damage. Which on average the D3 is still 1 damage. With only 9 attacks, you wouldn't be able to drop them. The only true counter is doing mortal wounds. We might just need to spell portal it and hope it goes right, but with their table wide dispells  +2 it's highly doubtful.

[Arcce]

15 minutes ago, Firefrog said:

Screamers wouldnt be a bad idea, but you would need to do 4 damage to bracket them, and they have -1 damage. Which on average the D3 is still 1 damage. With only 9 attacks, you wouldn't be able to drop them. The only true counter is doing mortal wounds. We might just need to spell portal it and hope it goes right, but with their table wide dispells  +2 it's highly doubtful.

Screamers are cheap as chips but expensive money wise if you want a max squad. BUT a max squad would be pretty damn good at monster hunting. Esp with their  ability to do MWs that isnt reliant on spells.

Also Skyfires are ok for bracketing them but its RNG with only 1 shot each. 

[Aelford]

So I'm building my isolation army. I just thought I'd run it by and see what you all think.

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Guild of Summoners

Leaders
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
Magister (100)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
The Changeling (120)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
5 x 10 x Kairic Acolytes (500)
10 x Tzaangors (180)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
 

Obviously try cast as many spells as possible. High drops means I can position heroes where I need them. I thought having multiple Vulcharcs would be good, as well as the extra damage from the Tzaangor banner.

[Firefrog]

On 3/6/2020 at 10:00 PM, Fiddybucks said:

Before you rebase you may want to wait. I predict a new base size for fate master when the do the new size chart in a couple months

If you check the base size FAQ you will see that Fatemaster is listed as 60mm, the store has so many things wrong, well wrong, not always up-to-date

[Firefrog]

On 3/6/2020 at 4:34 PM, Sumanye said:

I'm personally not a fan of the ahriman fate master proxy.  He's too big for a 32mm base and it just looks janky.  Also, Ahriman is so iconic in 40k, it's also a little immersion breaking imo.  If you feel the same, here is what I did.  I made my fate master with a chaos sorcerer lord body, new chaos warrior helmet, Enlightened Aviarch spear, disc made from extra chariot parts, and a shield from a  tzaangor.  

I agree, Ahriman also feels out of place with his armour and is an iconic 40k piece.

My proxy was originally Theddra Skull-scryer, added the halberd from Phoenix Guard and the head comes from Chaos Knights. There's a Kairic Acolyte shield on her back, for rules fluff. Disc was 3d printed by a friend of mine.

 

[Fiddybucks]

6 hours ago, Firefrog said:

If you check the base size FAQ you will see that Fatemaster is listed as 60mm, the store has so many things wrong, well wrong, not always up-to-date

the base chart hasn’t been updated since December. The same thing happened with the butcher. He used to be on a 40mm base and the web store updated to say he comes with a 50mm base then a few months later the base chart was updated to 50mm.

you can mount your fatemaster on either base it’s up to you. I mounted mine on a 40 and built a 60 to slot him into incase I use him before the size is updated.

[Deadkitten]

Has anyone tried Multitudinous Host?  Sure it's not the most competitive and has problems w movement but it might be fun.  I think it has to be Eternal Conflag w the reroll hits aura.

Allegiance: Chaos
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
The Changeling (120)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
Multitudinous Host (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
 

[Deadkitten]

On 3/27/2020 at 6:27 PM, WargamerRyguy said:

First off, I notice the changeling and other hero choices are being taken over other options like the Fatemaster and as curious to know if you think taking one in a heavy shooting acolyte list was worth it. I know it costs a cp each time, but to be able to reroll the hits of a lot of those shots, particularly from the +1 to hit buff from the coven makes them even more powerful in their strengths. 

My conclusion about the Fatemaster is that there is the universal CA that let's you reroll 1s, so now the Fatemaster is just a tad better in offense than any other hero.  Since these other Heroes are also better on defense, they become more flexible than the Fatemaster.  If you throw in any additional synergies, like Demon Heroes for Pinks, it becomes a no brainer,  He def has his place though. 

This came up on a FB page.  I think DoZ is more sub-faction dedicated than people realize due to no hard lines between them.  I rather like this approach but it does seem to lead to people evaluating units in a vacuum and not in the context of the sub-faction.

[Leah]

I have been slightly obsessed with trying to field an arcanites-only Tzeentch list and I want to ask for feedback. I'm still inexperienced but I like playing in unorthodox ways, so it might not be the most competitive thing ever, but it definitely gets a lot of fluff compliments at the shop. 🙂

 While I was still able to play I noticed there was a big weakness to alpha strikes of any kind on the acolytes, and without them a big chunk of the game plan falls apart. So my thinking is I might be able to screen them more effectively with a larger amount of Tzaangors that they can hang out behind, and I've ended up with this. Maybe I'm off the mark and should go more acolytes instead? I'm not sure.

Let me know what you think!

TransientForm.pdf

[Deadkitten]

11 hours ago, Leah said:

I have been slightly obsessed with trying to field an arcanites-only Tzeentch list and I want to ask for feedback. I'm still inexperienced but I like playing in unorthodox ways, so it might not be the most competitive thing ever, but it definitely gets a lot of fluff compliments at the shop. 🙂

 While I was still able to play I noticed there was a big weakness to alpha strikes of any kind on the acolytes, and without them a big chunk of the game plan falls apart. So my thinking is I might be able to screen them more effectively with a larger amount of Tzaangors that they can hang out behind, and I've ended up with this. Maybe I'm off the mark and should go more acolytes instead? I'm not sure.

Let me know what you think!

TransientForm.pdf 5.73 MB · 3 downloads

That's a lot of Tzaangors.  And 2 Battalions!  If the game plan revolves around the acolytes, then it definitely seems like you need more of them.  Generally, you screen an expensive unit w a cheaper unit.  On paper at least, it looks like the acolytes are the screen for the Tzaangors, not the other way around.  Have you thought about inverting your build?  Try a big block of acolytes w min Tzaangors. 

[Lou_Cypher]

Trying something here that's highly front-loaded. Reminiscent of the old Nagash + Zombie dragon, but with this:

 

Archaon

Fateweaver

Sorcerer Lord

Gaunt Summoner

 

20 Marauders

10 Acolytes

10 Horrors

 

Not sure which Coven to be at. Thinking of Hosts Arcanum for free Screamers and Archaon rocketing forward. Agenda to hunt down a monster so he gets +1 to his refillable save and tie up the enemy.

But I am lacking in bodies so I'm also thinking Guild of Summoners for a potential Lord of Change by the time Archaon dies.

Fateweaver is there to provide the threat of Archaon instagibbing anything he looks at. (If there's a 6 on one of the Destiny Dice that he can add to.)

[Deadkitten]

Played a game online using a graphic arts collaboration tool, Figma.  

I ran Multitudinous Host

Allegiance: Tzeentch
- Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
The Changeling (120)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (400)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
10 x Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch (60)
Multitudinous Host (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125

My buddy ran Slannesh Beasts

Allegiance: Slaanesh
- Host: Godseekers Host
Keeper of Secrets (360)
- Ritual Knife
Syll'Esske, the Vengeful Allegiance (200)
The Contorted Epitome (200)
Doombull of Slaanesh (100)
Great Bray Shaman of Slaanesh (100)
10 x Ungors of Slaanesh (60)
10 x Ungors of Slaanesh (60)
10 x Ungors of Slaanesh (60)
30 x Bestigors of Slaanesh (300)
6 x Bullgors of Slaanesh (280)
Depraved Drove (150)
Supreme Sybarites (120)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Deadkitten