AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Dreadmund]

12 hours ago, simakover said:

How properly use the Changeling? In new codex he resigned, so im dont know how abuse him now - if im place him in op territory, he mow can be targeted and charged. If not, is he worth?

Changeling is great for a few reasons. He can cast 2 spells and only costs 120 points which is nice and cheap. Even if he doesn't have his own warscroll spell, he can cast arcane bolt/mystic shield, you can give him a Lore Spell and he can use endless spells. I find he works really well as a support piece for a unit of horrors. He gives them -1 to be hit with his Locus of Change aura, he can use his ability to give enemy units -1 to hit, he can cast fold reality, mystic shield and emerald lifeswarm and he can be the hero you need nearby to use the Inspiring presence command ability. A changeling and 10 Pink horrors are a nightmare to clear off an objective for many factions. Also he fits in changehost, which has significant value in itself.

You don't need to use his ability to teleport round 1, but your opponent does need to take him into account when they deploy their army, which gives them a chance to make a mistake. Mistakes during deployment can cost people games. If you do use his ability, you can don't have to use him offensively. He can go to support a unit or horrors of flamers to buff their reliance after you changehost teleport them in. And if you opponent makes stupid mistake like leaving an important hero or an artillery piece undefended, you then have the option to exploit that. You can tag something like a mortek crawler to shut down their shooting for a round or two, assassinate an enemy hero with some destiny dice attacks, or just put a nuisance in your opponent's territory that they have to deal with instead of playing the objectives. He gives you options, and gives your opponent lots of opportunities to make mistakes. For 120 points, he's a steal in my opinion.

[simakover]

3 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

Changeling is great for a few reasons. He can cast 2 spells and only costs 120 points which is nice and cheap. Even if he doesn't have his own warscroll spell, he can cast arcane bolt/mystic shield, you can give him a Lore Spell and he can use endless spells. I find he works really well as a support piece for a unit of horrors. He gives them -1 to be hit with his Locus of Change aura, he can use his ability to give enemy units -1 to hit, he can cast fold reality, mystic shield and emerald lifeswarm and he can be the hero you need nearby to use the Inspiring presence command ability. A changeling and 10 Pink horrors are a nightmare to clear off an objective for many factions. Also he fits in changehost, which has significant value in itself.

You don't need to use his ability to teleport round 1, but your opponent does need to take him into account when they deploy their army, which gives them a chance to make a mistake. Mistakes during deployment can cost people games. If you do use his ability, you can don't have to use him offensively. He can go to support a unit or horrors of flamers to buff their reliance after you changehost teleport them in. And if you opponent makes stupid mistake like leaving an important hero or an artillery piece undefended, you then have the option to exploit that. You can tag something like a mortek crawler to shut down their shooting for a round or two, assassinate an enemy hero with some destiny dice attacks, or just put a nuisance in your opponent's territory that they have to deal with instead of playing the objectives. He gives you options, and gives your opponent lots of opportunities to make mistakes. For 120 points, he's a steal in my opinion.

thanks, would try him on next tourney. im give him an Treason for even more -1 to hit. Would play him defencely, with some horrors

[Dreadmund]

What are people's Hosts Duplicitous lists looking like? I'm veering away from endless spell spam, now that Seraphon are in the mix.

[Marthen]

So I’m starting a Tzeentch army and am going to be trying out the Eternal Conflagration to start. I was wondering on using unnamed horror heroes though if there was any reason to not just take a Changecaster? Are there any benefits to bringing a Fluxmaster or Fateskimmer?

[Dreadmund]

54 minutes ago, Marthen said:

So I’m starting a Tzeentch army and am going to be trying out the Eternal Conflagration to start. I was wondering on using unnamed horror heroes though if there was any reason to not just take a Changecaster? Are there any benefits to bringing a Fluxmaster or Fateskimmer?

Fluxmaster and Fateskimmer have 16" move speed, which can be really useful for keeping your units wholly within 12" for the -1 to be hit Locus buff. I find that really vital to mitigate the really poor armour save of Horrors and keep those flamers alive long enough to do damage. It's also really useful for zipping off to summon a unit in the best possible position. I personally like to take Fluxmaster or Fateskimmer for those reasons and out of the two, I prefer to take the Fateskimmer if I can afford him because A) it's only an extra 10 points for more wounds, better attacks and the ability to deal mortal wounds on a flyover and B) it looks like an absolute pimpmobile and that's worth 10 points by itself.

[Hamiltonian]

Hey all, got a rules question- should the gaunt summoner on disc have the arcanite keyword? I noticed the one on foot in the Battletome has it, but the disc one in slaves to darkness does not. Surely they should share all the same keywords?

[Cambot1231]

What is there a bare minimum of flamers to take in eternal conflagration to get your money worth? Can I get away with 2 units of three and exalted or is having 9 flamers with exalted the ideal loadout. I feel the changehost army starts getting pretty fragile with 9 flamers and an exalted especially  if I'm not willing to paint another 50 wounds of horrors after the first one. 

[Arcce]

I can't seem to find a definite answer on this.

Does the Witchfyre Cult battalion require foot Enlightened only or can Disc Enlightened fill that requirement too.

Signs would point to both as then Disc enlightened would only be in 1 battalion in the entire book. But I am not sure.

[Hebroseph]

2 hours ago, Arcce said:

I can't seem to find a definite answer on this.

Does the Witchfyre Cult battalion require foot Enlightened only or can Disc Enlightened fill that requirement too.

Signs would point to both as then Disc enlightened would only be in 1 battalion in the entire book. But I am not sure.

You can do either. Batallions ignore subheaders unless sub header is called out in question. 

[Hebroseph]

Did anybody find the lists for the Riptide GT anywhere? The winner was a Guild of Summoners list with a weird battalion and i wanted to check it out. 

[Fiddybucks]

12 hours ago, Hebroseph said:

Did anybody find the lists for the Riptide GT anywhere? The winner was a Guild of Summoners list with a weird battalion and i wanted to check it out. 

Found it on BCP app.

[GeneralZero]

I like this list but how could we summon the LoC T1 with it?

[Naprapaten]

The list has 12 casts if you count balewind. And 14 casts round 2 if horrors and acolytes can cast 

[mmimzie]

Along with reroll on cast from the blue scribes. Which is enough to make your spells quite consistent. 

 

You only need 9 or 10 spells to get the Lord of change out consistently between destiny dices and casting bonus you can get access to. 

[Tasman]

On 3/16/2020 at 6:21 PM, mmimzie said:

Along with reroll on cast from the blue scribes. Which is enough to make your spells quite consistent. 

 

You only need 9 or 10 spells to get the Lord of change out consistently between destiny dices and casting bonus you can get access to. 

Sorry, maybe I'm slow, but please explain how you get to 30 fate points for summoning a  LoC with 10 spells?

[Maserdom]

Guild of Summoners coven.

You forfeit the ability to summon any kjind of demon but LoC, in exchange for a reduction in their price. 9 fate points for the first chicken, 18 for the second, 27 for the third.

A bit of redundancy (~12 casters) and youll reliably have a chicken turn 1 no matter what, especially if you deploy in a corner beyond the 30'' deny range and spam all the offensive spells you have (even without a valid target, the cast will still be successful and award Fate Points).

[Grotruk]

2 hours ago, Tasman said:

Sorry, maybe I'm slow, but please explain how you get to 30 fate points for summoning a  LoC with 10 spells?

In fact, you don't really expect to summon 3 LOC but 2.

If i well understood, almost 12 spells afford you to summon consistantly a LOC turn 1 and a second one turn 3

[GeneralZero]

The most important one is the Turn 1 LoC. If not turn one, it'll be hard to stop the ennemy I think.

Can you have the destiny dice with Summoner coven? I thought that it was one or the other (exclusive OR).

[Grotruk]

4 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Can you have the destiny dice with Summoner coven? I thought that it was one or the other (exclusive OR).

Yes you can. Destiny dice is an universal DoT allegiance ability

[GrandMarshallof Apocalypse]

Hey there,

i have built a 2000k list and tested in my local and would be happy to receive some feedback. I was able to win matches in my community but to mention it isnt that competitive.

 

I played:

 

Guilt of Summoners

 

Kairos Fateweaver 400
Lore of Change: Tzeentches Firestorm

Lord of Change 380

Genereal

Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible

Artefact: Brimstone Familiar

Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Gaunt Summoner 240

Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion

Blue Scribes 120

Lore of Change: Tzeentches Firestorm

Changecaster 110

Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation

 

 

10x Kairic Acolytes 100

 

10x Kairic Acolytes 100

 

10x Pink Horrors 200

 

10x Brimstone Horros 60

 

 

Umbral Spellportal 70

 

Geminids of Uhl Gysh 60

 

Balewind Vortex 40

 

Aethervoid Pendulum 50

 

Purple Sun of Shyish 50

 

 

2000/2000 Extra CP: 0 Wounds: 83

 

So what do you think is it viable? And what could i change ( aint that happy with the host for example)

[GrandMarshallof Apocalypse]

a

Edited March 19, 2020 by GrandMarshallof Apocalypse
doubled

[GrandMarshallof Apocalypse]

5 minutes ago, GrandMarshallof Apocalypse said:

 

 

[Myzyrael]

Fellow weavers of fate, I need your help. 
 

Now is the time to prepare forces and be ready to strike again once the realm gates are passable again. 
 

I am struggling to get my head around how to bring our force on the table. I have a fairly large collection, but a bit of everything only. 20 pinks (and blues and brims for most of them), 20 Tzaangors, 20 kairics, many heroes, 6-9 enlightend and/or 6-9 Skyfires etc. I love to play mixed forces but this seems to be the wrong way with our current tome. Got some major defeats in against Death, Seraphon, Skaven, Khorne, ... 

I felt this was often due to not being able to hold out against seemingly unstoppable forces or not being able to punch hard and fast enough to mitigate enemy alpha/beta strikes.

So, I’d hope to have some kind of “meta” discussion how our forces are used best and most efficient. Preferably in a non-mono way  

[Hannibal]

4 hours ago, Myzyrael said:

So, I’d hope to have some kind of “meta” discussion how our forces are used best and most efficient. Preferably in a non-mono way  

I can´t give you any meta-insights, but it seems to me that your collection is a good base for a DoT army. Things you should consider:

- which coven do you like to play? Eternal Conflaguration seems to be out of the equotion, but you can run any one of the other 3. Just look at the boni you will get.

- Tzaangors (either on foot or disc) are still some pretty good melee units and the Skyfires can still be used for character sniping due to destiny dice.

- I think you should decide wether to field the pink horrors right from the beginning or to invest in 1-2 Gaunt Summoners who can summon them in you first turn.

- Chaos Warhounds which you can ally in are extremely good screening troops. I do not understand why nobody seems to use them. Their footprint is way larger than every screening unit DoT can field, they are faster and auto–run 6". For a mere 30 points more than an equal amount of Brimstones.

- To find the right balance between melee and shooting/magic always was/is the real challange when it comes down to list building with DoT.  Although our melee units are good and there are some melee centric agandas right now, DoT is not a melee army. On the other hand you can hardly avoid melee therefore you need something that will help you win combats.

[Myzyrael]

14 hours ago, Hannibal said:

I can´t give you any meta-insights, but it seems to me that your collection is a good base for a DoT army. Things you should consider:

- which coven do you like to play? Eternal Conflaguration seems to be out of the equotion, but you can run any one of the other 3. Just look at the boni you will get.

- Tzaangors (either on foot or disc) are still some pretty good melee units and the Skyfires can still be used for character sniping due to destiny dice.

- I think you should decide wether to field the pink horrors right from the beginning or to invest in 1-2 Gaunt Summoners who can summon them in you first turn.

- Chaos Warhounds which you can ally in are extremely good screening troops. I do not understand why nobody seems to use them. Their footprint is way larger than every screening unit DoT can field, they are faster and auto–run 6". For a mere 30 points more than an equal amount of Brimstones.

- To find the right balance between melee and shooting/magic always was/is the real challange when it comes down to list building with DoT.  Although our melee units are good and there are some melee centric agandas right now, DoT is not a melee army. On the other hand you can hardly avoid melee therefore you need something that will help you win combats.

Thank you for sharing your advice. 

The coven bonuses are quite nice and I've tried a few of them already. The summoners guild proved worthwhile, less so for the Lords but more for the battleshock immunity on the horros which increased their staying power. So one concept that I've found was using them with a durable hero (e.g. Manticore Sorcerer) as a roadblock. When using the Gaunt you can extend your reach in the first battleround due to 12" summon + move. This has been a vital element to my lists and I was missing it when playing other covens. Does anyone have some advice how to implement something similar with other covens? Command points are sparse but I rarely use them for something important, so one battleshock per phase is OK. 

I consider using my beasts (Ungor Raiders and Bestigors) as allies. Raiders are fast, cheap and can block enemies. Their shooting is a nice bonus to do at least something. Bestigors seem to do equal damage as Tzaangors and their staying power is somewhat comparable. If something wants to Destroy them both units perish. 

Maybe I've invested not enough in shooting. What do you feel is the right balance between spellcasting and shooting? We are a magic army but so many armies out there are either better in casting or extremely good in banning / unbinding that it feels like an uphill battle all the time. 

I'l share a list idea that I had yesterday as an attachment:

Tzeentch-2000.pdf