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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

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10 hours ago, Hebroseph said:

I think you are comparing apples to oranges when talking about grapes.  Most of the casters in tzeentch answer a question.  You need to use the correct fruit for the equation. Are you running change host and want to aggressively jump 20 pinks first turn? Take Changeling. Are you running guild of summoners and want more consistency ? Take blue scribes. Are you wanting to cast Darkfire rift ? take Gaunt Summoner. 

End of the day Tzeentch is blessed with a multitude of super efficient casters. 

Gaunt Sumoner on disc, 2 cast, Mortal and Daemon, Flies and applies -1 locus to daemons, summons 10 pinks who can move and shoot in the same turn. Has access to StD endless spells. Cost 60 points

Changeling 2 cast, daemon, corner cast teleport, gives out -1 locus to daemons, additional -1 if the enemy gets close, doesnt have a warscroll spell but can learn others, 120 pts

Blue Scribe,  1 cast, but can learn spells, provides rerolls and a very consistent cast chance, flies and provides -1 locus to daemons.  120 pts

All of these are amazing options. 

Also you imply that you get twice the durability by taking a changeling and a blue scribe for the same cost of gaunt summoner, but don,t factor in the 50 hitpoints you get from the pinks which i don't think is very fair. Especially since the Changeling doesnt have a warscroll so his 2 casts arnt the most useful, and scribes are normally locked into their rerolls. Plus pinks can cast till they die so its almost like having a 3rd cast for summoning points. 

 

 

But thats my point. GS summons things.
The other options act as multipliers and/or debuffers.
Its easy to quantify the value of a summon with a direct points cost.
But its much harder to quantify those buffs and debuffs, but they can be every bit as potent.
And thats the trade off.

Just like any ability, it does not matter if you get taken out before you get to use it. If the enemy can alpha 5 wounds, they can stop your summon. It would take an alpha of 10 wounds in multiple locations to shutdown all the benefits provided by two separate casters.

You are right that the Changeling does not have a warscroll spell. But just as with the GS, he will spend most of his time casting lore and realm spells anyways.

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2 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

His army was something like:

Lord of Change, Changling, Gaunt Summoner on Disk, Changecaster, 10 Horrors, 6-9 Screamers x2, all three Tzeentch endless spells, Battalion of some sort

In my opinion too much heroes.

2 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

I think my opponent would have better luck with more Horrors.  I think he also has 3 flamers and I have 3 flamers to borrow so I think they could work well as skirmishers (in the traditional battle sense). 

They are very good damage dealers. In addition, running Eternal Conflagration with Horrors and Flamers mean increased rend on shooting attacks.

2 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

IAlso, Has there been any change to DoT taking S2D units with Tzeentch Marks?  I suggested that my opponent consider some Chaos Warriors or something other S2D mortal unit to hold ground, but he was under the impression he would have to ally.  I don't know for sure, but I don't think that is the case.

EVERYTHING with MArk of Tzeentch can be played in Tzeentch Allegiance. Chaos WArriors are battleline too.

 

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Posted (edited)

double post

Edited by Hannibal

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Posted (edited)

triple post

 

Sorry

Edited by Hannibal
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Posted (edited)

I don't see a world where the tzeentch endless spells pull their weight over a darkfire daemonrift, and I mean the gaunt summoner is so auto include.

 

Also I struggle to see as much value in battalions (even changehost) at 1500 because you lose more supporting elements.

Like I mean that's like 350 points in not models.  For a 1500 point list, that's a lot of board presence sacrificed.  With a little tweaking, he could toss in 20 more horrors and that's literally 100 wounds.

Edited by Luke1705
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@Hannibal, @Luke1705

Thanks for the input.  Now that you mention it, you are right that he probably had too many points tied up in non-creatures stuff.  I think he just wanted to try out the Endless Spells. I imagine he is just going to keep the Burning Sigil of Tzeentch as that one is cheap and worked okay even though I think its placement could have been better.  I am not sure why he took a Battalion in at size of game we were playing.  I know he doesn't a big collection for DoT yet, but he said he has enough for 2,000 points.  I suspect that is pretty much everything he has though hence the reason I want to loan him some of my Tzeentch daemon stuff to allow a better constructed army. 

Again thanks for the information on the Horrors.  Like I said, I suspected that they would be a quagmire (I know them from 40k) and not worth tangling with until I didn't really want to move from that part of the table.  I do think that there is some synergy between Horrors and Screamers with Screamers holding units until the Horrors can get there and potentially having the Screamer leaving to capture objectives pick off easy targets or do any number of other things. 

As for the too many heroes, you are probably right.  I know I decided against bringing another Sorcerer Lord on foot since I figured I would just be feeding the Destiny Dice pool or get disrupted and having a spare CP for my Chaos Lord on foot would be useful.  I think he would have been better dropping the Changling, while also dropping a couple endless spells, bringing in Tzaangors and/or Flamers at very least.  I think he just wanted rack up a tons of Destiny Dice to play around with.  He also mentioned he was unimpressed with his Tzaangors.  But has someone that was swamping the battlefield with summoned Warcry cultists, a warm body is a warm body.

Finally, thank you concerning S2D units in a DoT army.  I thought as long as they were Mark of Tzeentch they could be added freely, but I wasn't sure if that had somehow changed in the new Battletome.  I will let my friend know.  That does open up a lot more models I can loan him to give him some options even at 2,000 points until he can afford to fill in his collection while allowing some try before you by.  I probably wouldn't have an issue with his Thousand Sons being proxy Chaos Warriors.

I will let him know about this information.  I don't mind losing especially with my S2D army as they seem to make a great punching bag.  However, my friend I think wants to get a little more out his army but hasn't figured out how he wants to do it.  So I think he has been pretty frustrated which is understandable.  He as much a Thousand Sons/Disciples of Tzeentch player as I am a Black Legion/Slaves to Darkness.  So I think part of his frustration is he does way better with his Thousand Sons even though he likes Age of Sigmar more.

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9 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

 I do think that there is some synergy between Horrors and Screamers with Screamers holding units until the Horrors can get there and potentially having the Screamer leaving to capture objectives pick off easy targets or do any number of other things. 

Sorry, but this tactics only works due to the fact that most of your StD units are low damage dealers. Units tailored to melee prowess will easily kill the Screamers no matter.

9 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

As for the too many heroes, you are probably right.  I know I decided against bringing another Sorcerer Lord on foot since I figured I would just be feeding the Destiny Dice pool or get disrupted and having a spare CP for my Chaos Lord on foot would be useful.  I think he would have been better dropping the Changling, while also dropping a couple endless spells, bringing in Tzaangors and/or Flamers at very least. 

Well, most heroes in Tzeentch deal damage by magic. They aren´t the best fighters out there. That being said, running lots of them means you should get the most out of your hero phase (ie magic). Blue Scribes come to mind as an excellent support piece here. In addition, there are tons of good endless spells which increase the utility of your spell casters. Have in mind, that every single endless spell is a model that cannot passed by, meaning you also gain board control out of your (offensive) endless spells.

If your friend wants to go the magic heavy route then maybe he should run 1-2 gaunt summoners due to the fact that they bring magic and bodies to the table, therefore your high number of heroes won´t decrease the number of bodies on the field.

Guild of Sumoners might be a good idea then because he can bring in his Lord of Change in the second turn on average rolls. Think about it: Guild of Summoners tailored towards spell casting with 1 Gaunt Summoner included will give you 580 free points! That´s huge.

 

Other than that Tzeentch offer some nice support heroes, FAtemaster for example. He allows for rerolls to hit in shooting as well as in melee.

Also have in mind that you can still include allies. A Khorne Daemonprince might be a good addition because he offers good melee and he disrupts other melee centric armies. So you can more easily control the flow of battle.

 

9 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

  He also mentioned he was unimpressed with his Tzaangors.  But has someone that was swamping the battlefield with summoned Warcry cultists, a warm body is a warm body.

To be honest, Tzaangors are one of the stronger melee (+ battleline!!!) units out there. They do a lot of damage and are pretty fast. An allied Great Bray Shaman enhances their speed and with DEstiny Dice + some Aganda they become truly effective. 6"+3" move, up to 6" run, up to 12" charge = threat range of 13" to 27", with a command point spent and using Destiny Dice for a 9" charge (to gain that Aganda of +1 attack) you´re now at a guaranteed threat range of 24".

9 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

  However, my friend I think wants to get a little more out his army but hasn't figured out how he wants to do it.  So I think he has been pretty frustrated which is understandable.  He as much a Thousand Sons/Disciples of Tzeentch player as I am a Black Legion/Slaves to Darkness.  So I think part of his frustration is he does way better with his Thousand Sons even though he likes Age of Sigmar more.

I guess he should be able to build an army that he likes. Tzeentch offers so many playstyles, have good melee units as well as superb shooting units.

If he is a Thousand Sons player he should already own 6 Flamers (counter against that pesky anti-psi-asassine) and 20 Pink Horrors + Herald (+2nd character) + 2x 10 Brimstone Horrors make for a really good 2nd Battalion in 40k, therefore he won´t waste any money buying into the good AoS Tzeentch stuff.

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Is emerald lifeswarm woth it without playing with realms? found this list on Honest wargamer form SS20
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General- Command Trait: Coruscating Flames
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm

Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Quicksilver Swords (30)

Total: 1980 / 2000=

Interest is lifeswarm worth it and is Quicksilver swords are choice to counter other Tzeentch players or not

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Posted (edited)

I'll jump into the thread for a few questions!

Coming from 40k and its (now more than ever) deranged situation with rules bloat and power creep off the charts, I have started playing AoS in search of a breath of fresh air.

I willfully chose a mid tier army (Gloomspite Gitz, squigs-only variant) in order to play at 1000-1500 points max and enjoy the game once again, but the 1000 points variant of the list has already been painted and the subsequent purchases laid out. Avoiding boredom is a priority and, since AoS'gorgeous models make it much easier (for me, at lòeast) to speed paint miniatures, I'd like to start a second army.

As you may imagine, my eyes instantly fell on the Disciples of Tzeentch, especially since I already wanted to build a Thousand Sons army but never got around to.

 

From what I gathered, the DoT are a mid-high tier army with the potential of being high tier plus, which would be useful for the more... competitive matches at my LGS. I absolutely love the idea of spamming magic and summoning little guys around, but the Guild of Summoners coven seems to be the overpowered choice here, especially in 1000 points games (where a Lord of Change turn two is probably turbo-broken and only suitable for small tournaments).

Could you please, A) rate the following Guild of Summoners list and B) suggest a less OP list with the Pyrofane Cult?

I'd rather get the Kairic Acolytes than the Tzaangors since my squigs are enough for a melee playstyle, while the acolytes defending the mages and throwing fireballs require a different strategy. Since the Acolytes will be already there, and the Pyrofane is tied to them (and it looks like a mid-tier choice, since Guild of SUmmoners and Chagehost are the obvious cheesy choices), I would be saving quite a bit of money!

Guild of Summoners List:

Spoiler
  • Gaunt Summoner
  • The Blue Scribes
  • Curseling
  • 10x Kairic Acolytes
  • 10x  Kairic Acolytes
  • 10x Kairic Acolytes
  • 10x Kairic Acolytes

Total: 920/1000 and 80 available points for endless spells. Maybe I could leave out a group of acolytes (who are just there to maximize spell casts) and throw in an Ogroid Thaumaturge to defend my mages against charges, but I 'm not sure if 30 meat shields would be enough).

The plan is to wait in my starting zone for the first turn (which I'll always pass), cast as much as possible hoping for a first turn Lord of Change, and then run to the objectives on turn 2 once the enemy has been softened with fireballs.

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated! The local shop has declared a glorious -25% sale, so my wallet is ready to splurge on a few boxes while it lasts!

Edited by Maserdom

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50 minutes ago, Maserdom said:

I'll jump into the thread for a few questions!

Coming from 40k and its (now more than ever) deranged situation with rules bloat and power creep off the charts, I have started playing AoS in search of a breath of fresh air.

I willfully chose a mid tier army (Gloomspite Gitz, squigs-only variant) in order to play at 1000-1500 points max and enjoy the game once again, but the 1000 points variant of the list has already been painted and the subsequent purchases laid out. Avoiding boredom is a priority and, since AoS'gorgeous models make it much easier (for me, at lòeast) to speed paint miniatures, I'd like to start a second army.

As you may imagine, my eyes instantly fell on the Disciples of Tzeentch, especially since I already wanted to build a Thousand Sons army but never got around to.

 

From what I gathered, the DoT are a mid-high tier army with the potential of being high tier plus, which would be useful for the more... competitive matches at my LGS. I absolutely love the idea of spamming magic and summoning little guys around, but the Guild of Summoners coven seems to be the overpowered choice here, especially in 1000 points games (where a Lord of Change turn two is probably turbo-broken and only suitable for small tournaments).

Could you please, A) rate the following Guild of Summoners list and B) suggest a less OP list with the Pyrofane Cult?

I'd rather get the Kairic Acolytes than the Tzaangors since my squigs are enough for a melee playstyle, while the acolytes defending the mages and throwing fireballs require a different strategy. Since the Acolytes will be already there, and the Pyrofane is tied to them (and it looks like a mid-tier choice, since Guild of SUmmoners and Chagehost are the obvious cheesy choices), I would be saving quite a bit of money!

Guild of Summoners List:

  Hide contents
  • Gaunt Summoner
  • The Blue Scribes
  • Curseling
  • 10x Kairic Acolytes
  • 10x  Kairic Acolytes
  • 10x Kairic Acolytes
  • 10x Kairic Acolytes

Total: 920/1000 and 80 available points for endless spells. Maybe I could leave out a group of acolytes (who are just there to maximize spell casts) and throw in an Ogroid Thaumaturge to defend my mages against charges, but I 'm not sure if 30 meat shields would be enough).

The plan is to wait in my starting zone for the first turn (which I'll always pass), cast as much as possible hoping for a first turn Lord of Change, and then run to the objectives on turn 2 once the enemy has been softened with fireballs.

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated! The local shop has declared a glorious -25% sale, so my wallet is ready to splurge on a few boxes while it lasts!

I like your list from an efficiency point of view. The main question is if you really need 4 units of acolytes? If you are planning to go heavy on them in 2000 points - then go for it, if not and you are planning a more traditional approach I would swap two units for one unit of horrors (or a second GS - basically the same thing but will give you more spell casting although you will then need to find 40 additional points). The same goes for the Curseling - good model with great rules that tend to fall of some in bigger games (or as soon as you get the LoC out). Once again if you will focus on daemons you could swap the Curseling for the Changeling (same spell casting- better synergy with daemon units and cheaper). 

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1 hour ago, simakover said:

Is emerald lifeswarm woth it without playing with realms? found this list on Honest wargamer form SS20
 

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Change Coven: Eternal Conflaguration

Leaders
Lord of Change (380)
- General- Command Trait: Coruscating Flames
- Artefact: Shroud of Warpflame
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch

Fluxmaster, Herald of Tzeentch on Disc (130)
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch

The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm

Changecaster, Herald of Tzeentch (110)
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (240)
3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (120)

Units
1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

Battalions
Changehost (180)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)
Quicksilver Swords (30)

Total: 1980 / 2000=

Interest is lifeswarm worth it and is Quicksilver swords are choice to counter other Tzeentch players or not

I definitely think Lifeswarm is worth it for Tzeentch. In other armies it's a bit too steep, but used on horrors it's bringing back between 5 and 15 wounds per turn!It might also allow you to bring back a banner, or raise the number of pink horrors back up to 10 so you can cast their spell.  I wouldn't take it unless your list has horrors in it.

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54 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

I definitely think Lifeswarm is worth it for Tzeentch. In other armies it's a bit too steep, but used on horrors it's bringing back between 5 and 15 wounds per turn!It might also allow you to bring back a banner, or raise the number of pink horrors back up to 10 so you can cast their spell.  I wouldn't take it unless your list has horrors in it.

im thinking drop a quicksilver swords and add some other stuff. in our community only one player use Tzeentch so im think that quicksilvers is not needed. but that? have you any idea? 

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So how’re people finding Tzaangors at the moment? Been trying to get them to work competitively without relying on the daemon side of things but I’ve been having a hard time doing so

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On 3/2/2020 at 6:01 PM, AverageBoss said:

But thats my point. GS summons things.
The other options act as multipliers and/or debuffers.
Its easy to quantify the value of a summon with a direct points cost.
But its much harder to quantify those buffs and debuffs, but they can be every bit as potent.
And thats the trade off.

Just like any ability, it does not matter if you get taken out before you get to use it. If the enemy can alpha 5 wounds, they can stop your summon. It would take an alpha of 10 wounds in multiple locations to shutdown all the benefits provided by two separate casters.

You are right that the Changeling does not have a warscroll spell. But just as with the GS, he will spend most of his time casting lore and realm spells anyways.

First and foremost - I think we can all agree that Tzeentch has some really good casters with great abilities/spells. 

When discussing this type of things it really is theoretical and in a vacuum so yes if you are against something that can alpha your casters it is up to you to deploy to counter or lose said models - in said scenario the GS value goes down. On the other hand if you are up against hordes of models - the GS stock goes through the roof. With that said just purely looking at the warscroll the gaunt is really a bargain for its points. This is also really seen in most recent tournament builds - unless Changehost  (and even quite often even then) you will se a GS in almost every list. 

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3 hours ago, NJohansson said:

or a second GS - basically the same thing but will give you more spell casting although you will then need to find 40 additional points

Coming from 40k, where reinforcements and summons cost points, AoS'rules are a bit hard to understand, especially since the Pink Horrors have been patched again and again.

When I put a unit of 10 Pinks on the battlefield, in a regular matched play I get to slowly turn them into 20 Blue Horros and 20 Brimstone Horrors, right? Or are there any limitations?

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2 hours ago, Maserdom said:

Coming from 40k, where reinforcements and summons cost points, AoS'rules are a bit hard to understand, especially since the Pink Horrors have been patched again and again.

When I put a unit of 10 Pinks on the battlefield, in a regular matched play I get to slowly turn them into 20 Blue Horros and 20 Brimstone Horrors, right? Or are there any limitations?

It used to be in matched play that you had to pay points for summoned units. No longer so - as long as you fulfill the requirement on the warscroll (range, placement etc.) you can summon for “free”. So 10 pinks (regardless if placed initially or summoned by summoning points or through the GS) will turn into 20 blues and 20 brims (pending on how you remove the models from casualties). Just don’t forget that you need to remove the pink first and then you can mix between blues and brims. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, NJohansson said:

No longer so (...)

Wait a minute. Does this mean that with two gaunt summoners (or three in 1000+ games) I would be able to slap 10/20/30 pink horrors for free on the table without any counterplay?

Is it just me or this ****** is broken to infinity and beyond? I would literally have to not play the Gaunt Summoner in any possible not-tournament match, otherwise my opponent would have to eat through a boatload of horrors every match or gear his list to snipe my mage turn one... and pay for battalions in order to make sure he gets to go first.

I thought that the Gaunt Summoner would simply throw out 10 horrors (without the ability to split, at least) or that I would have to reserve their points in exchange for the certainty of summoning said unit wherever I want to...

Edited by Maserdom

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Maserdom said:

Wait a minute. Does this mean that with two gaunt summoners (or three in 1000+ games) I would be able to slap 10/20/30 pink horrors for free on the table without any counterplay?

I keep seeing people mention 10 pinks for "free" from the Gaunt, but I think that's the wrong way to look at it. The only way those Pinks would be free is if you would take the GSoD without any summons ability; paying the full 260 points. Would you pay 260 for just a GSoD? No - I'm pretty sure no one would... which means the summons aren't "free". In reality, the Gaunt on Disc is probably worth ~160 on his own, so what you're really getting is a 100 point discount on a unit of Pinks that comes with a few downsides:

1. They don't count towards battleline (somewhat huge). 

2. They can be wiped out before they ever hit the table if the GSoD gets alpha'd (big concern). 

3. One less spell the turn of summoning (meh).

The major upside is that the Pinks can move and shoot/charge the turn you place them, which really gives some flexibility on  deployment if you can safely start the GS on the forward lines. Are they a good unit? Yes, they're quite efficient with the summons... but are they OP? No, I don't personally think so.

Edited by Freejack02
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Greetings, 

Playing in a one day tourney on Sunday and am certain I will face an OBR list. Last month almost a third of the field was OBR mostly Nagash Petrifex lists. What should I look out for? 
 

I am playing a duplicitous changehost:

LOC, Changeling, changecaster, fluxmaster, 20 pinks 2x10 pinks, 2x10 brims, spell portal, geminids, prismatic pallisade 

Thx in advance

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13 minutes ago, papagumdrop said:

Greetings, 

Playing in a one day tourney on Sunday and am certain I will face an OBR list. Last month almost a third of the field was OBR mostly Nagash Petrifex lists. What should I look out for? 
 

I am playing a duplicitous changehost:

LOC, Changeling, changecaster, fluxmaster, 20 pinks 2x10 pinks, 2x10 brims, spell portal, geminids, prismatic pallisade 

Thx in advance

Nagash is going to make you have a very bad time casting. Your re-rolls will help somewhat, but his flat bonus is just so good. So you have to somehow try to kill him (very difficult if the opponent is good) or avoid his deny range (also difficult if the opponent is good). I think you have to use your mobility to the maximum and do your best to focus down and kill whichever unit you can target from outside of Nagash's deny range, if any.

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7 hours ago, Dreadmund said:

I definitely think Lifeswarm is worth it for Tzeentch. In other armies it's a bit too steep, but used on horrors it's bringing back between 5 and 15 wounds per turn!It might also allow you to bring back a banner, or raise the number of pink horrors back up to 10 so you can cast their spell.  I wouldn't take it unless your list has horrors in it.

There are definitely some banner shenanigans in there, and using that in conjunction with other endless spells is definitely my favorite way to guarantee a good use of a 1 on a destiny dice.  The lifeswarm spell is the "if I had just a few more points I would totally include it in my list" spell right now.  I just can't quite seem to fit it without sacrificing a touch more than I'd like to in other areas. But it's very good.

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3 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

I keep seeing people mention 10 pinks for "free" from the Gaunt, but I think that's the wrong way to look at it. The only way those Pinks would be free is if you would take the GSoD without any summons ability; paying the full 260 points. Would you pay 260 for just a GSoD? No - I'm pretty sure no one would... which means the summons aren't "free". In reality, the Gaunt on Disc is probably worth ~160 on his own, so what you're really getting is a 100 point discount on a unit of Pinks that comes with a few downsides:

1. They don't count towards battleline (somewhat huge). 

2. They can be wiped out before they ever hit the table if the GSoD gets alpha'd (big concern). 

3. One less spell the turn of summoning (meh).

The major upside is that the Pinks can move and shoot/charge the turn you place them, which really gives some flexibility on  deployment if you can safely start the GS on the forward lines. Are they a good unit? Yes, they're quite efficient with the summons... but are they OP? No, I don't personally think so.

Pinks OP with or without Gaunts? I personally don’t know - in my opinion they are one of the best units point for point in the game but OP or not is another question entirely. Saying that in 1000 point games I do strongly feel that the GS is close to OP. Your opponents abilities to alpha strike are usually much less and an extra 400 points in horrors (most likely 200-300 in actual points due to the tax of extra cost of GD) really affect the game very strongly in my favor. Summoning in small games is generally stronger overall.

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4 hours ago, NJohansson said:

Pinks OP with or without Gaunts? I personally don’t know - in my opinion they are one of the best units point for point in the game but OP or not is another question entirely. Saying that in 1000 point games I do strongly feel that the GS is close to OP. Your opponents abilities to alpha strike are usually much less and an extra 400 points in horrors (most likely 200-300 in actual points due to the tax of extra cost of GD) really affect the game very strongly in my favor. Summoning in small games is generally stronger overall.

In a 1k game you're talking about 26% of your points into a single fragile unit - 6 wounds with a 6+ save... there's a LOT of stuff that can pop that before you get a chance to summon. If you're talking about bringing in 2 of them - that's 520 and you still don't even have Battleline addressed. I think they're good - but they are expensive. 

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Which is the better 2 cast wizard:

The curseling or the changeling?

Seeing a lot of lists with the blue scribes too. I don't have any of these models nor fatemaster and having a tough time choosing which to pick up next.  I'm entertaining a list with some flamers, and a Lord of change if that helps point things a certain direction. 

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1 hour ago, Cambot1231 said:

Seeing a lot of lists with the blue scribes too. I don't have any of these models nor fatemaster and having a tough time choosing which to pick up next.  I'm entertaining a list with some flamers, and a Lord of change if that helps point things a certain direction. 

The blue scribe: I ordered  a tzeentch SC to build mine out of the burning chariot kit. You can kitbash ton of things. look at this:

Which is the better 2 cast wizard:

The curseling or the changeling?

Both are good depending on your list. As I love the changeling mini, it wasn't hard for me to choose. But I finally took  the curseling also. Just because I like this diversity of tzeentch.

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