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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

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3 hours ago, Sumanye said:

Note I also assumed that Enlightened do not try to trigger Guided by the Past, since I do not feel that is really optimal especially with a Fatemaster already giving rerolls and loss of fold reality.

If you stack 2 to-hit debuffs onto the threatening units it’s pretty safe to do Guided By the Past. Loss of Fold Reality is not nearly the deathblow people assume it to be.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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16 hours ago, Sacrednikki89 said:

Thanks for clearing that up, are the tzeentch endless spells worth buying?

The Sigil and the Tome are both good. The Simulacrum is a liability unless you are running a Lord of Change.

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9 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

If you stack 2 to-hit debuffs onto the threatening units it’s pretty safe to do Guided By the Past. Loss of Fold Reality is not nearly the deathblow people assume it to be.

Good point!

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On 2/3/2020 at 5:51 PM, AverageBoss said:

Age of Sigmar only ever had a single warscroll for the Daemon Prince (unlike 40K which has 3 different ones last I checked).

When StD got its recent update, the DP warscroll got a major overhaul. It is no longer a wizards, but can still be taken in a Tzeentch army no problem (like most other StD units) by giving it the mark.

I'd argue that the 160 pt daemon prince remains legal until  next GHB. The warscrolls have different names.

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7 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

The Sigil and the Tome are both good. The Simulacrum is a liability unless you are running a Lord of Change.

@Sacrednikki89

True the Simulacrum is a liability, but I think part of the intention of this spell is to use it as a trap and not dispel it.  Note that this spell can't move super far and hurts the closest unit within 6" even if that unit is friendly.  Say there is an odd number of predatory endless spells out and you are at the bottom of the turn, you can cast Simulacrum and potentially position it in such a way that your opponent can't hurt you with it, but if they don't pick to move it, you could obliterate one of their wizards if you choose to move it.  Now your opponent must choose to move a spell that doesn't help them, giving you an extra beneficial predatory endless spell move or eat potentially serious damage on a wizard.  It's even possible that you could place it such that your opponent has no way to move Simulacrum without hurting their own units.

Is this super worth the points and risk?  Probably not.  But this spell is the most Tzeentch spell there is and I really like the design.

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With the double teleport gone, I think Eternal Conflag takes a big (well-deserved) hit, since you can't teleport the Flamer squad along with the Horrors you'll need to protect them from getting fried (in addition to the Horrors' shooting. Looking at going more magic-heavy again as a result, which is more dangerous now with mostly improved spells and the nasty Endless Spell that is Darkfire Daemonrift. 

Anybody else considered Hosts Arcanum just for the extremely cheap/fast battle line that is Screamers? Using just x3 minimum-sized squads, I'm able to squeeze 2 Gaunt Summoners into my Changehost list, for a total of 6 hero casters. Obviously the 20 Pink Horrors the Gaunts summon will be doing most of the actual blocking/holding, but the Screamers can threaten objectives that are crazy far away. Hosts Arc does unfortunately have a ****** command ability, but the free move could put 1-2  flying Gaunt Summoners in Darkfire/Geminids range turn 1, not to mention scooting the Lord of Change around if playing a short neutral zone deployment. The artifact ain't bad either, as 6 Screamers can threaten non-combat units and nothing prevents them from moving immediately after being summoned. 

 

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I'm not competitive and will likely never show up in anything more than a local tournament, but Hosts Arcanum are presently my favorite. They allow me to fill in my battle line options easily enough and bring in a nice blob of Tzaangors or Skyshoal Coven for less. I'm presently 2-0 in the few games I've played against Mawtribes. 

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I'm 1910/2000 in a Cult of the Transient Form coven, with Alter-kin and Arcanite cabal, would a Beastlord (90 points) do anything for me or should I get an extra CP?

Edited by Sacrednikki89
Clarification

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2 hours ago, Sacrednikki89 said:

I'm 1910/2000 in a Cult of the Transient Form coven, with Alter-kin and Arcanite cabal, would a Beastlord (90 points) do anything for me or should I get an extra CP?

Probably not.  I assume you have a Tzaangor Shaman, and I would spend those points on Wildfire Taurus if you haven’t already 

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10 minutes ago, Sumanye said:

Probably not.  I assume you have a Tzaangor Shaman, and I would spend those points on Wildfire Taurus if you haven’t already 

I have a Tzaangor Shaman and don't have BoC endless spells yet but I have been eyeing them for some time.

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On 2/4/2020 at 1:09 PM, Xasto said:

Has anyone tried the big boy himself Archaon in a tzeentch list? I feel like the agendas can really buff him up

Joel Graham did very well with this list at a recent 200+ person event, going 5-1 and placing top 10. I was looking the interactions over and it is pretty bonkers.

A7A91AE3-1E09-4775-9919-BBC58194BD12.jpeg

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Can someone clear up some rules for me?
Say Gift-change or similar abilities where you can add X amount of models to a unit, do restrictions happen straight away or do they wait for minimum unit size clumps?
Say you got 20 x Tzaangors, max Greatblades and max Mutants, you kill stuff with Tzaangor Shaman's spell, add some Tzaangors, can you add them as Mutants or Greatblades or must you choose something far more generic and then say #24 and #25 can be greatblades?

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1 hour ago, Sacrednikki89 said:

Can someone clear up some rules for me?
Say Gift-change or similar abilities where you can add X amount of models to a unit, do restrictions happen straight away or do they wait for minimum unit size clumps?
Say you got 20 x Tzaangors, max Greatblades and max Mutants, you kill stuff with Tzaangor Shaman's spell, add some Tzaangors, can you add them as Mutants or Greatblades or must you choose something far more generic and then say #24 and #25 can be greatblades?

You still have to follow the unit guidelines. You can only have 2 Mutants/Greatblades per 5 Tzaangor, so even with the spell you cannot exceed that number for the unit. 

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9 hours ago, decker_cky said:

I'd argue that the 160 pt daemon prince remains legal until  next GHB. The warscrolls have different names.

It has been removed from the app/Azyr - granted they make mistakes all the time but fully removing a warscroll should be a clear indication. Also - the book where it previously existed has removed said scroll so it really has been overrided (newer trumps General Companion).

Edited by NJohansson

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1 hour ago, Sacrednikki89 said:

Can someone clear up some rules for me?
Say Gift-change or similar abilities where you can add X amount of models to a unit, do restrictions happen straight away or do they wait for minimum unit size clumps?
Say you got 20 x Tzaangors, max Greatblades and max Mutants, you kill stuff with Tzaangor Shaman's spell, add some Tzaangors, can you add them as Mutants or Greatblades or must you choose something far more generic and then say #24 and #25 can be greatblades?

You have to follow the restrictions of 2 in every 5.  #25 and #26 can be greatblades and then #30 and #31 could be greatblades.  #24 doesn’t get you anything because you don’t have 5 extra Tzaangors at that point,  so has to be #25 and #26.  In this scenario, your mutants would probably be #27 and #32 as greatblades are more important.

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Has anyone else noticed how messy our summoning values are? The Fateskimmer (24 fate points) costs literally doubling the fate points of a Fluxmaster (12 points) despite being separated by 10 regular points to include in your army list, like....what!? Even weirder, the Fluxmaster and Changecaster have the same fate points values, despite the disparity between their actual points being bigger than between the Fateskimmer and Fluxmaster! Only just noticed this as I'm building a Fateskimmer now and was trying to figure out if it was a decent option for a list.

Edited by Jaskier

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8 hours ago, NJohansson said:

It has been removed from the app/Azyr - granted they make mistakes all the time but fully removing a warscroll should be a clear indication. Also - the book where it previously existed has removed said scroll so it really has been overrided (newer trumps General Companion).

The app and azyr should follow what books + errata say. Books + errata say that the daemon prince warscrolls should still be in the grand alliance chaos book. There is still a current generals handbook cost for a daemon prince, so the "daemon prince" warscroll remains matched play legal.

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1 hour ago, decker_cky said:

The app and azyr should follow what books + errata say. Books + errata say that the daemon prince warscrolls should still be in the grand alliance chaos book. There is still a current generals handbook cost for a daemon prince, so the "daemon prince" warscroll remains matched play legal.

The general ruling is that a newer book trumps an older one. You can’t play any warscrolls from an army that has gotten an update after the release of the GH. By your logic I should still be able to play the old LoC, Gaunt summoner etc. simply because they have a point cost in the GH. The new Slaves to Darkness remover the old Daemon Prince warscroll completely and replaced it with the current one.

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There's a rule that says to use the newest warscroll of the same name. 

Slaves to darkness daemon prince is not the same name as daemon prince. 

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1 hour ago, decker_cky said:

There's a rule that says to use the newest warscroll of the same name. 

Slaves to darkness daemon prince is not the same name as daemon prince. 

This isn't any different than Pink Horrors of Tzeentch being replaced by Horrors of Tzeentch

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On 2/5/2020 at 11:01 AM, Lou_Cypher said:

Given the halfway nerf of Changehost's single teleport only now... is it agreed that the Changeling is now the most important tool for it?

It can deploy anywhere essentially, providing the loci required for the unit chosen to teleport. 

Thought you could get away without it before.  Not so sure now.

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Hi all
 
I'm hesitating between this 2 guild of summoners lists
 
List 1:
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible
- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
The Changeling (120)
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (360)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
Tome of Eyes (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91
 
List 2:
Allegiance: Tzeentch
Kairos Fateweaver (400)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Lore of Fate: Shield of Fate
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240)
- Lore of Fate: Arcane Suggestion
- Lore of Change: Treason of Tzeentch
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
20 x Tzaangors (360)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (100)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Darkfire Daemonrift (50)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Suffocating Gravetide (20)
Soulsnare Shackles (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 97
 
What do you think about these ?
 

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Just noticed that In Azyr Be’lakor can take a spell from  the Tzeentch Daemon list, that is a bug right? Need to be TD only or am I missing something? 

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2 hours ago, NJohansson said:

Just noticed that In Azyr Be’lakor can take a spell from  the Tzeentch Daemon list, that is a bug right? Need to be TD only or am I missing something? 

He is an ally (though should probably have all 4 keywords fluff wise, given he was blessed by all 4). So he would not benefit from ANY of the DoT allegiance abilities, including selecting spells.

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5 hours ago, NJohansson said:

Just noticed that In Azyr Be’lakor can take a spell from  the Tzeentch Daemon list, that is a bug right? Need to be TD only or am I missing something? 

It´s a bug. He doesn't have a tzeentch keyword.

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