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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


Gaz Taylor
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Hey uh, quick question, I am getting an Aether War box set and my friend and i are gonna split it. what is about the effectiveness competitively of the Tzeentch side of the set, especially the custom hero unit, as he is more a player where as I am a collector? This is in comparison to the effectiveness of the faction as a whole of course.

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3 hours ago, Sttufe said:

Hey uh, quick question, I am getting an Aether War box set and my friend and i are gonna split it. what is about the effectiveness competitively of the Tzeentch side of the set, especially the custom hero unit, as he is more a player where as I am a collector? This is in comparison to the effectiveness of the faction as a whole of course.

Too many other good leaders for the new magister to shine since you can only ever bring 6.

If you can debuff the enemy’s to-hit enough so that you can safely use Visions of the Past and use Reckless Abandon, Enlightened hit like a Hammer of God. That being said, you probably don’t need them since Flamers hit so hard at range and their synergies can’t fail. They might see competitive play if the Changehost gets nerfed enough since they are a tax in the Witchfyre Coven.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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33 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Too many other good leaders for the new magister to shine since you can only ever bring 6.

That is the problem a a rich army: too many things to choose from lol. 

Don't glue the magister to its disc: magnet it. Thus, you have a magister that can me on foot or on disc: the foot one is used more frequently.   (cheaper)

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I treat Enlightened as a tax as far as Witchfyre goes. They cost too much for what they bring to the battalion. 3 is next to useless so naturally you want to bump it up to 6 to get some use. Now you need a Shaman to make them better. All that is taking away points from the focus of the Pyrofane + Witchfyre list which is heavy shooting via Acolytes and magic.

Edited by Malakithe
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1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

I treat Enlightened as a tax as far as Witchfyre goes. They cost too much for what they bring to the battalion. 3 is next to useless so naturally you want to bump it up to 6 to get some use. Now you need a Shaman to make them better. All that is taking away points from the focus of the Pyrofane + Witchfyre list which is heavy shooting via Acolytes and magic.

They should outdamage 30 Acolytes even without the Shaman, IIRC just on the Spears.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I treat Enlightened as a tax as far as Witchfyre goes. They cost too much for what they bring to the battalion. 3 is next to useless so naturally you want to bump it up to 6 to get some use. Now you need a Shaman to make them better. All that is taking away points from the focus of the Pyrofane + Witchfyre list which is heavy shooting via Acolytes and magic.

You usually get more out of them taking 9 than taking a shaman. So if you take the shaman for the sole reason to get something out of the enlightened you probably should just take 3 more (unless you take the fatemaster instead).

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6 hours ago, NJohansson said:

You usually get more out of them taking 9 than taking a shaman. So if you take the shaman for the sole reason to get something out of the enlightened you probably should just take 3 more (unless you take the fatemaster instead).

Yeah thats what I mean. Its a trap to invest into that many for Pyro + Witchfyre

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2 hours ago, Grotruk said:

Fatemaster seems nearly a must have in this kind of list in fact, especially if you run 6 or 9 enlightened

Not necessarily- Guided by the Past is a stronger ability. Depending on how you are planning to use them Fatemaster might be good (if you send them against something that can kill them straight up) but generally they are still better if they just strike after another enemy.

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17 minutes ago, NJohansson said:

Not necessarily- Guided by the Past is a stronger ability. Depending on how you are planning to use them Fatemaster might be good (if you send them against something that can kill them straight up) but generally they are still better if they just strike after another enemy.

Yeah but Fatemaster is also terribly good with big block of acolytes (especially with the one which will shot 2 times ;p)

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4 minutes ago, Grotruk said:

Yeah but Fatemaster is also terribly good with big block of acolytes (especially with the one which will shot 2 times ;p)

Just to clarify- Fatemaster is great. He is fantastic for e.g. Flamers, big blocks of acolytes/Horrors and many other things. Was only commenting on Fatemaster - Enlightened combo.

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16 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I treat Enlightened as a tax as far as Witchfyre goes. They cost too much for what they bring to the battalion. 3 is next to useless so naturally you want to bump it up to 6 to get some use. Now you need a Shaman to make them better. All that is taking away points from the focus of the Pyrofane + Witchfyre list which is heavy shooting via Acolytes and magic.

I like to use them in a defensive manner when forced to take them. 

I like to screen with tzeentch marked marauders due to their base size and combat potential. Of course this tactic works with any screen but is better with 25 mm. Perhaps if using pink horrors as a screen kill then off in a way to put blues in front of the unit. Anyways basically I have three of them about an inch behind the marauders so they are within the 3 inches of a fight if the opponent charges but 2 inches away so immune to 1 inch weapons. This allows me to guarantee they fight after an enemy unit. With the rerolls they will make their points back super quickly. Enlightened on discs can be used in this manner while also threatening objectives like screamers.

the on foot versions are cheaper and don’t even care about being behind 25 mm models as they don’t have a 1 inch range disc to worry about. However due to lack of speed they can’t threaten objectives and are purely defensive.

i also like marauders as screens due to their coverage compared to pinks. They were much better tho when they were 200 pts for a unit, the new points hike has me wondering if I’ll still use them over other screens.

a 40 man completely blocks the first round of charges against non flying of stringed out in some chaotic conga line, and with their new found damage boost may kill a few things before they inevitably die a horrible death. Still torn on them tho

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13 hours ago, NJohansson said:

You usually get more out of them taking 9 than taking a shaman. So if you take the shaman for the sole reason to get something out of the enlightened you probably should just take 3 more (unless you take the fatemaster instead).

The Shaman gives you a possible Arcane Suggestion and Doomblast Dirgehorn.

You’re going to want an Arcane Suggestion caster regardless of how you’re using your enlightened. So it’s like, a +50 point cost over minimum(Magister), +100 if you take the horn.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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16 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Enlightened on discs can be used in this manner while also threatening objectives like screamers.

This is super important too. If you’re using arcanites you’re stuck with their 6” since you can’t run and shoot. You absolutely need something to threaten backfield objectives in the Witchfyre Coven.

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1 hour ago, Neffelo said:

Yeah, I need to convert one up. If you are running a big block of enlightened you want one for sure. 

Yeah I ordered some 40k Exalted Sorcerer bits and got some Slaves to Darkness Knight and Warrior bits, an Acolyte Shield and either greenstuff the flames on the Glaive or try some Burning Chariot or Pink Horror Icon bits.

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2 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

This is super important too. If you’re using arcanites you’re stuck with their 6” since you can’t run and shoot. You absolutely need something to threaten backfield objectives in the Witchfyre Coven.

True! And because they are actually scary in combat, the opponent can’t simply put a weak chaff unit on an objective that screamers might struggle to remove. 

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24 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Yeah I ordered some 40k Exalted Sorcerer bits and got some Slaves to Darkness Knight and Warrior bits, an Acolyte Shield and either greenstuff the flames on the Glaive or try some Burning Chariot or Pink Horror Icon bits.

I've been trying to acquire one of the new Chaos Warriors, but no one wants to part with one. 

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I love that while the rest of the internet complains about Changehost, horrors, flamers, the discussion here is mostly about arcanite builds. I have now racked around 15 games with the new book (its been a busy few weeks), mostly iterations of Witchfyre Coven in the Pyrofane Cult. It has been extremely rewarding - certainly powerful, but with lots of trade-offs and still very much playing the game of Warhammer, unlike Changehost.  After all these games, I have now arrived at a list that I'm ready to take to a tournament at the end of the month. Below I'll give my opinions on some of the discussion points above:

1. Enlightened are not a tax in Witchfyre. Acolytes  need to be complemented with something that can punch hard in combat and, more importantly something that can force the fight into your opponents table half. Otherwise it feels like you are just letting your opponent smash their army into your lines of acolytes and hoping you win the grind. Six Enlightened on Disc provide the fast combat threat you need. I think one of the strongest things about Witchfyre is it combines this key unit in with your full battleline, allowing you to keep drops quite low (5 in my preferred list). 

2. You don't need to bring the Shaman to make Enlightened worthwhile. I've played both with and without him, and settled on a list without. If you manage to set up situations where the Enlightened can go second, six will usually do enough damage with all the rerolls that you didn't need the +1 hit.  If you need them to go first, they will get more out of the Fatemaster than the Shaman anyway, and you are likely bringing a Fatemaster because of how well he works with acolytes. I am usually charging them in turn 2 with the Fatemaster, with the reckless abandon agenda for +1 attack on all profiles, and hitting first. Thats 25 spears, 12 beaks, and 18 discs on average, rerolling to hit, which is usually enough to wipe my opponents biggest threat. Don't get me wrong, Shaman buff is nice too, but he doesn't help the rest of the army the way the Fatemaster does. 

3. Yes  you can easily fit 30 acolytes in the Fatemaster bubble, and other stuff two.  He is on a 60mm base, so we are dealing with a >20" bubble here. I have arrived at 20-20-10 acolytes as my preferred build, and am usually looking to keep at least one of the 20-man units and the LoC (with the Pyrofane artefact) in the bubble for turn 1 shooting, and turn 2 hero phase shooting, before he zooms off somewhere the Enlightened. 

Finally... seeing as everyone is in love with the Fastemaster now, and talking about conversions,  perhaps we should start a little "show us your Fatemaster"... I will go first! I should point out that I was already playing the Fatemaster in the old book, just because I loved the concept of mortal lord on disc, and had made this conversion about a year ago. So I was extra excited when he became good! This was a pretty easy conversion, happy to talk through it if anyone wants to recreate it.

 

fatemaster.jpg

Edited by BillyOcean
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