AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Sinfullyvannila]

3 minutes ago, Maximum said:

Fantastic, counting the ones I have, plus the ones in the new pack, I have 24 useless tzaangor on disk. 😢

They still hit just as hard as they used to, you just can’t bring them back with Fold Reality anymore, which was never a guarantee in the first place.

You know these guys do get used in BoC without that, right?

Edited January 4, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[Will Rogers]

Am I missing something here? I didn’t think enlightened hit that hard anyway? Just the best combat unit in a book of non combat units?

[Neffelo]

6 minutes ago, Maximum said:

Fantastic, counting the ones I have, plus the ones in the new pack, I have 24 useless tzaangor on disk. 😢

Useless is a pretty strong word here. They are still quite powerful, and can benefit from the new Agenda. We just don't get Fold reality and the Locus, which are pretty big, but not hte end of the world. 

[Maximum]

5 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

Hanno ancora colpito tanto quanto una volta, non puoi più riportarli con Fold Reality, che non è mai stata una garanzia in primo luogo.

Yes, but now they also cost 20 points more, from what I have read.

I hope the point cost of the skyfires has gone down.

[AverageBoss]

9 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

From the review spoilers, DoT is more of a sidegrade/streamline of most rules rather than "X rule is now Y rule". Not that it's a bad thing imo, you don't want people on a forum complaining about your army for months on end now!

Other than the Horrors of Tzeentch thing though. I'm sure that might be a hot topic for a long while.

I mean, they already split before, they are just one unit now. So we traded the flexibility of multiple units for single unit durability. The shooting attack is a bit worse, and they went up in points.

5 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I couldn't read the text and didn't recall GMG saying what the numbers were. I assumed it was all 1:1 as each box contains 10 of each but.. not anything GW cares about of course. It would mean we would end up with a ton of spare Brims in that case which I don't like.

That's a good bit of cash though as I would need 6 Pink boxes and 12  boxes of Blues on top of the other stuff (like 3 LoC's). I've never been more thankful for local guys giving huge discounts 😅

You dont get any spare brims. But you do need to but 2x blue/brim boxes for each pink box for maximum splitting.

[Maximum]

4 minutes ago, Neffelo said:

Inutile è una parola abbastanza forte qui. Sono ancora abbastanza potenti e possono beneficiare della nuova agenda. Semplicemente non otteniamo la realtà Fold e il Locus, che sono piuttosto grandi, ma non la fine del mondo. 

I hope you are right, the models on disk are my favorites, I was hoping for something for them.
It's probably just the disappointment.

[Qaz]

2 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

I mean, they already split before, they are just one unit now. So we traded the flexibility of multiple units for single unit durability. The shooting attack is a bit worse, and they went up in points.

Shooting attack got a bit better from what I can tell. Pinks get 3 missile attacks and Blues 2? Just marginally better due to now hitting on 5+.

[kenshin620]

1 minute ago, AverageBoss said:

I mean, they already split before, they are just one unit now. So we traded the flexibility of multiple units for single unit durability. The shooting attack is a bit worse, and they went up in points.

I think that's what most non Tzeentch players will see. It's more obvious when a unit of pinks keeps on splitting vs tallying up blue points and having the blues pop up somewhere else.

[Gwendar]

7 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

You dont get any spare brims. But you do need to but 2x blue/brim boxes for each pink box for maximum splitting.

Ah right... I keep thinking 2 Blues split into a single Brim, but it's 1 for each.

Time to save that tax money 😉

[Murder Pancake]

So, with the Tzaangor change to shields, how were they run previously? How many shields would anyone suggest? I have one blob of 30 right now with four and plan to get more, but would like some input.

[GeneralZero]

42 minutes ago, Maximum said:

Fantastic, counting the ones I have, plus the ones in the new pack, I have 24 useless tzaangor on disk.

I'm on the same boat (ordered 3 aether=18 guys in addition to the 9 that I already have). I'll resell 9 probably... The thing is that the screamers are also not good (maybe fast harassment/objo holders...).

Tzaangors on discs (especially skyfire) seem really expensive points wise.

[GeneralZero]

Does the book include the Mutalith vortex beast? I can't imagine a more tzeentchy beast than this one....

[Malakithe]

36 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Ah right... I keep thinking 2 Blues split into a single Brim, but it's 1 for each.

Time to save that tax money 😉

GW needs to sell those Horrors lol

So if the Ogroids spell didnt change he can still just set up a new unit of Brims? Does that cost points? 

Also do all these ways to bring Spawns in cost points?

[Gwendar]

4 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

So if the Ogroids spell didnt change he can still just set up a new unit of Brims? Does that cost points? 

Also do all these ways to bring Spawns in cost points?

No? The game moved away from reinforcement points long ago with the summoning rework for all factions. If something is setup then it's just setup 'for free'. So yeah, a couple Spawn boxes may be needed as well with the amount of stuff that turns things into them.

[Poryague]

Worth pointing out exalted flamer and exalted flamer on chariot have rend 1 for shooting attack. Rend 2 when in the conflagration.

[Paniere]

I've read the last few pages of this topic and there are so many inaccuracies just because people hasn't actually read the tome but instead they have listened to inaccurate readings of it . I just read all scrolls of the units I own and intend to play ( demons)  and I'll try to fix some errors or point things out in random order:

1) no, vortexbeast is not present in this tome

2) ogroid spell has changed, no more summoning of brims but healing D6 instead

3) Pinks got a major nerf in casting ability but due to the new splitting mechanic has become a big blob which will contest most of the objectives. Pinks are wizards ONLY if they are 9+ models, which means that units of 10 will not cast if they get a couple of casualties. In addition, thy can cast only their signature spell , nothing else included endless for as I read it. to compensate this casting nerf they get better  shooting with better odds, too soon to tell if the trade is worth

[GeneralZero]

5 minutes ago, Paniere said:

1) no, vortexbeast is not present in this tome

thank you but this is a shame and/or unfortunate. I'm a bit disapointed here. But I'll see if it is still interesting to play it.

[Gwendar]

7 minutes ago, Paniere said:

3) Pinks got a major nerf in casting ability but due to the new splitting mechanic has become a big blob which will contest most of the objectives. Pinks are wizards ONLY if they are 9+ models, which means that units of 10 will not cast if they get a couple of casualties. In addition, thy can cast only their signature spell , nothing else included endless for as I read it. to compensate this casting nerf they get better  shooting with better odds, too soon to tell if the trade is worth

True, but with that spell and the ability for being at 20+ models (which it almost always will be with the splitting) you're getting them down to 3\4\-\1 which isn't terrible for a unit that also has a 6+ FNP. That's a pretty great BL unit in my opinion and I still see 2x20 or 3x20 being a staple.

That said, yeah, it's obvious the casting role has shifted more towards heroes, which I'm fine with. Time will tell what works well. The Changehost list requiring 8 units is a high tax and 3x20 + the LoC and the Battalion is already high and leaves little room for anything.

[DarrinTheOccult]

7 minutes ago, Paniere said:

3) Pinks got a major nerf in casting ability but due to the new splitting mechanic has become a big blob which will contest most of the objectives. Pinks are wizards ONLY if they are 9+ models, which means that units of 10 will not cast if they get a couple of casualties. In addition, thy can cast only their signature spell , nothing else included endless for as I read it. to compensate this casting nerf they get better  shooting with better odds, too soon to tell if the trade is worth

This is really important. Horrors are pretty weak in survivability terms, 2 wounds and no magic? that's huge for what horrors have been all this time ago. If they are WIZARD they should be able to know a lore spell and cast endless, right?

Maybe now Kairic Acolytes take they place, as 20 acolytes cost as much as 10 pinks and they endure more

[AverageBoss]

35 minutes ago, Murder Pancake said:

So, with the Tzaangor change to shields, how were they run previously? How many shields would anyone suggest? I have one blob of 30 right now with four and plan to get more, but would like some input.

With the BoC changes, optimum was 1 shield (because thats all it took to cover the whole unit), as many mutants and greatblades as possible, and dual weapons for everyone else.

With the new changes, we will probably go back to closer to the DoT original warscroll builds. Max greatblades and mutants. And an even split of shields and dual weapons.

[AverageBoss]

3 minutes ago, DarrinTheOccult said:

This is really important. Horrors are pretty weak in survivability terms, 2 wounds and no magic? that's huge for what horrors have been all this time ago. If they are WIZARD they should be able to know a lore spell and cast endless, right?

Maybe now Kairic Acolytes take they place, as 20 acolytes cost as much as 10 pinks and they endure more

10 pinks is 50 wounds. 20 acolytes is 20 wounds.

[Malakithe]

18 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

No? The game moved away from reinforcement points long ago with the summoning rework for all factions. If something is setup then it's just setup 'for free'. So yeah, a couple Spawn boxes may be needed as well with the amount of stuff that turns things into them.

The Ogroids spell sets up Brims based on how many MWs it caused so that could be a mini nuance to a unit that wants to move.

Also I think there is at least 3 different ways to produce Spawns so time to load up on those...cleaver move GW

[Paniere]

1 minute ago, Gwendar said:

True, but with that spell and the ability for being at 20+ models (which it almost always will be with the splitting) you're getting them down to 3\4\-\1 which isn't terrible for a unit that also has a 6+ FNP. That's a pretty great BL unit in my opinion and I still see 2x20 or 3x20 being a staple.

That said, yeah, it's obvious the casting role has shifted more towards heroes, which I'm fine with. Time will tell what works well. The Changehost list requiring 8 units is a high tax and 3x20 + the LoC and the Battalion is already high and leaves little room for anything.

I'm doing the math right now: My selected Heroes+batallion take up 910 points and I still need to field 3 Battlelines plus 2 other units to fulfil the changehost requirements. I can't field a 20 pinks unit, although I'd love to, because that would require 400+200+200 in pinks, leaving 290 points for the remaining 2 units plus endlesses. Unless you have hundreds of blues and brims, you want to fill the last 2 slots with 3 flamers+1 exalted f, plus 70 points in endless, not enough imo

[Malakithe]

16 minutes ago, Paniere said:

2) ogroid spell has changed, no more summoning of brims but healing D6 instead

Noooooooo......healing? Healing what? How do you heal from a fireball?

[DarrinTheOccult]

1 minute ago, AverageBoss said:

10 pinks is 50 wounds. 20 acolytes is 20 wounds.

You didn't understand my point. If you lose 2 horrors, horrors are no longer a wizard. For acolytes stopping being wizard they must lose 12 acolytes