AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[Hebroseph]

Hidden agenda to make a unit models count as 2 is pretty awesome if you use it on a unit of horrors. 10 horrors= 20 models worth of scoring, kill 1 pink and turn into 2 blues worth 4 lol. 

[AverageBoss]

4 hours ago, Kilhan said:

Does the bases for each of them have the same size as the GW Chaos Spawn ones?

They are 50mm, yes. But they are thinner and smooth on the sides rather than curved to accommodate those movement trays. So right size, but different style if that would bother you.

[MitGas]

35 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

The amount of dice they produce seems to get worse every run. The Isengard dice sold out from the GW site in literal seconds.

Well, their loss then. Pretty stupid of them to be honest. It's free money and I won't pay scalpers.

Edited January 4, 2020 by MitGas

[CJPT]

Noted this in the GMG video (which I haven't finished watching yet.)

"Each Destiny Dice spent only allows you to replace a single dice roll. If you want to replace a 2D6 roll (such as a casting roll or charge roll) you must spend 2 Destiny Dice."

This seems like an unambiguous and fairly major nerf, because it prevents you from contributing one Destiny Dice to a casting roll and rolling the other one, which is broadly very useful but particularly good with Lords of Change.

[Dollface]

17 minutes ago, MitGas said:

I won't pay scalpers.

They always reserve some to allocate to not just their own stores but other FLGSs. You should be able to find it at your nearest game store.

[SleeperAgent]

18 minutes ago, CJPT said:

Noted this in the GMG video (which I haven't finished watching yet.)

"Each Destiny Dice spent only allows you to replace a single dice roll. If you want to replace a 2D6 roll (such as a casting roll or charge roll) you must spend 2 Destiny Dice."

This seems like an unambiguous and fairly major nerf, because it prevents you from contributing one Destiny Dice to a casting roll and rolling the other one, which is broadly very useful but particularly good with Lords of Change.

While this seems like a big nerf, one of the arcanite artefacts is gonna generate so many destiny dice. "Secret Keeper" I believe it's called. Pick a melee weapon, whenever you roll an unmodified 6 to hit, roll a dice and add it to your destiny pool.

[AverageBoss]

Mortal/Arcanite Disk riders lost the Daemon keyword it seems, and got no replacement.

Fold Reality looks best on Horror and Burning Chariot units now.

[CJPT]

I've only skimmed the GMG video, because honestly it jumps around a lot and he misses a fair few major changes. Impression I get is of fairly significant nerfs and simplifications to the combos that worked before, but a variety of buffs to core unit stats. One massive change is that, as suspected, mortal disc-riding units have all lost the DAEMON keyword. No more casting Fold Reality on Enlightened, and they can't benefit from the new Loci.

Changehost now allows you to redeploy two units in your hero phase as long as the batallion's LoC is alive - no swapping places. Redeployed units need to be placed at least 9" from enemy models, like most other redeployment abilities.

[AverageBoss]

Also, they forgot the Vortex Beast existed... again.

[MitGas]

4 minutes ago, Dollface said:

They always reserve some to allocate to not just their own stores but other FLGSs. You should be able to find it at your nearest game store.

Yeah, my FLG has them.... and despite being angry I ordered them already. But why can't they produce enough for once?

[Clan's Cynic]

28 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Well, their loss then. Pretty stupid of them to be honest. It's free money and I won't pay scalpers.

I think GW is just very bad at predicting demand for third-party produced things like dice and cards. The Lord of the Rings dice/cards sell out, as said, in literal seconds off their own webstore. Meanwhile some like Genestealer Cult and Squig dice last months. They'd presumably be happier doing a limited print run that sells quicker and in their bizzaro minds 'dives up the value' (see: scalpers) and gets you on the webstore at 10am than they would sitting and gathering dust for a while.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Clan's Cynic

[CJPT]

Just now, AverageBoss said:

Also, they forgot the Vortex Beast existed... again.

I noticed this too. It's gone to live with the Slaves to Darkness. I'm pretty sure that means you can still take it in a Tzeentch army, though? It has to be given the Mark of Tzeentch.

[MitGas]

1 minute ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think GW is just very bad at predicting demand for third-party produced things like dice and cards. The Lord of the Rings dice/cards sell out, as said, in literal seconds off their own webstore. Meanwhile some like Genestealer Cult and Squig dice last months. They'd presumably be happier doing a limited print run that sells quicker and in their bizzaro minds 'dives up the value' (see: scalpers) and gets you on the webstore at 10am than they would sitting and gathering dust for a while.

How comes you guys are so rational all the time?  

[Murder Pancake]

Tzaangor and Arcanite shields no longer work the same way. Wounds must be alocated to the model with the shield first.  Means I need to redo a whole lot of Tzaangor. 

[MitGas]

3 minutes ago, CJPT said:

I noticed this too. It's gone to live with the Slaves to Darkness. I'm pretty sure that means you can still take it in a Tzeentch army, though? It has to be given the Mark of Tzeentch.

It's sad that we don't get good synergy with S2D units but maybe there's some nice thing in there. Cause we're still squishy and our killer units are now nerfed.

[Fluxlord]

1 hour ago, angrycontra said:

Man, those kairic acolytes are great now. 4+ 3+ ranged attacks by default (3+ 3+ in pyrofane cult) and +1 to wound rolls on melee and 2 dam with big blades (still kinda terrible in melee but nowhere near the level they used to be) and all this + casting for only 100p for 10. Oh yeah and 5+ sv now. I knew buying 50 of them at launch would one day pay off.

Yep. Of you take a pyrofane cult with a witchfyre coven they’ll become: 3+/3+ (re-roll)/-1/1 dmg. Thus with 60 acolytes 3 units of 20, but you can always yield more... this will get 120 attacks and on average 70 saves for your opponent with -1 rend. Bye bye opponent...

oh man i really hyped about this, love the acolytes to paint... but now they’re fun to play to!

[Hebroseph]

Just now, MitGas said:

It's sad that we don't get good synergy with S2D units but maybe there's some nice thing in there. Cause we're still squishy and our killer units are now nerfed.

What killer unit got nerfed? Enlightened stayed the same, Loc/Karios got better weapon/attack profiles. Horrors got weaker, but turned into a massive tarpit. Flamer-esque models all got better at shooting, karic got better at shooting, etc etc. 

 

[CJPT]

3 minutes ago, Hebroseph said:

What killer unit got nerfed? Enlightened stayed the same, Loc/Karios got better weapon/attack profiles. Horrors got weaker, but turned into a massive tarpit. Flamer-esque models all got better at shooting, karic got better at shooting, etc etc. 

 

I agree with this one the whole but the idea that Enlightened weren't changed is one if the big mistakes in the GMG video - they lost the Daemon keyword, which means no more Fold Reality to bring them back. It's a very sensible change, but certainly also a nerf.

[Malakithe]

Anyone catch some points changes? Ill watch the vid when I get off work

[Ellarr]

A friend of mine on Goonhammer has done an excellent write up on the new battletome and what's changed, and you can find it here if you are interested. 

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/age-of-sigmar-review-disciples-of-tzeentch-battletome/

 

I'm very excited by the new horrors tbh, such an elegant new design.

 

 

[Futa]

I have transcribed the new book so you don't have to sit through a 1 hour video. Check it out here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18xvSYJjLnxCv5TPbfT4nH1Likk0zH8sXmPZ7LmaewOM/edit#gid=2003704498

You can make a copy of it and play around with list building as well, but I did not write down any of the warscrolls.

[Sinfullyvannila]

Kairos went up 20 points but gets an extra cast

Lords of Change can auto dispel. Both have changes to their brackets.

All Heralds went down and got warscroll changes.

Magister on foot is 100 points so he’s insanely good now.

Foot Summoner got the free summons like the disc one did, 5+ on his spell now.

Flamers get +1 to hit when within 12” of an exalted flamer and Capricious Warpflame changed to a bonus to hit horde units.

So Flamers are now pretty important to Horde clearing unless you take the Sorcerer on Manticore for S2D.

Tzaangors got their shield rule changed back to their original. So nerfed in a vacuum, but it’s really easy to get a hidden agenda to buff their attack.

Icon has some considerable downsides 

Burning Heads are a never take because it’s too expensive IMO

Tome is good on Horrors because you can burn 2 1’s from your destiny dice to auto-succeed and just let split soak up the DD.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[MitGas]

What baffles me most is how they didn‘t do anything worthwhile with screamers... 

[Neffelo]

1 hour ago, CJPT said:

I agree with this one the whole but the idea that Enlightened weren't changed is one if the big mistakes in the GMG video - they lost the Daemon keyword, which means no more Fold Reality to bring them back. It's a very sensible change, but certainly also a nerf.

Also means they don't benefit from the Locus, AND they went up in points.

None of the new Hosts really have any benefit for them either.  They got super nerfed. 

[AverageBoss]

Ya. Screamers still completely lack a role. And I still think the LoC is far too expensive for the modern game state. But all 3 Flamers look to be much better (still waiting on a way to buy exalteds on their own though, without having to but the whole chariot) in addition to the KAs.