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AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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3 hours ago, Killamike said:

Played 3 games over the weekend with tzeentch. Still crazy strong and summoning gives some great flexibility. 

Won all three against rotigus drone bomb, blight cyst and mixed destruction. 

Every game summoned flamers and heralds. 

Skyfires are expensive but they are still pants on head stupid. 

Spell portals is like giving your wizards all balewinds. 

I could see shooting stormcast giving us problems. 

List? Point size?

What worked?

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List was: 

Cursling - general, magical supremacy

Gaunt summoner 

Shaman

Blue scribes

Loc - aspect of tzeentch

10 acolytes x3

9 skyfires 

Spell portal

2k. 

With the spell portal and a huddle you arent limited to 18" for spells. 

The cursling denying at 42 is awesome. I reflected rotigus spell and then stole it and cast it next turn . 

You can stay out of range easily from enemy deny first turn. Slaan and dropping stormcast obviously will effect that. 

Our summoning points are just a side product of what the list is trying to do so it's a great bonus. 3 flamers popping out can kill weakened heroes or camping smaller units. Herald just adds to the madness. 

I was also killing 1-3 models with the shaman spell and putting a tzaangor out with a banner, then u can mortal wound further off the banner. Was a bit cheeky but was fun. 

Skyfires are skyfires, fold reality is broken on them and they really shouldn't be able to reroll everything just for going first. But hey I'll play them. 

As I mentioned deep striking castigators and ballista are going to be bad news for our heroes. 

I'm very much looking forward to denying peoples endless spells and casting it back at them, or getting a free cogs. 

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33 minutes ago, Killamike said:

List was: 

Cursling - general, magical supremacy

Gaunt summoner 

Shaman

Blue scribes

Loc - aspect of tzeentch

10 acolytes x3

9 skyfires 

Spell portal

2k. 

With the spell portal and a huddle you arent limited to 18" for spells. 

The cursling denying at 42 is awesome. I reflected rotigus spell and then stole it and cast it next turn . 

You can stay out of range easily from enemy deny first turn. Slaan and dropping stormcast obviously will effect that. 

Our summoning points are just a side product of what the list is trying to do so it's a great bonus. 3 flamers popping out can kill weakened heroes or camping smaller units. Herald just adds to the madness. 

I was also killing 1-3 models with the shaman spell and putting a tzaangor out with a banner, then u can mortal wound further off the banner. Was a bit cheeky but was fun. 

Skyfires are skyfires, fold reality is broken on them and they really shouldn't be able to reroll everything just for going first. But hey I'll play them. 

As I mentioned deep striking castigators and ballista are going to be bad news for our heroes. 

I'm very much looking forward to denying peoples endless spells and casting it back at them, or getting a free cogs. 

This is a good but Lens of Refraction neuters nearly all of your offensive magic, so you're basically left with 9 skyfires as your only reliable damage output. 6 Nations happened this weekend and all the Tzeentch players found brutal losses against Lens of refraction builds. 

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Yep, I'm not saying that tzeentch don't have counters, but I'd personally much rather not look at a stardrake and remove it in a hero phase. We have been brought down a peg and I think that's a good thing. 

I may be missing some but it looks like 3 lens were taken to 6 nations, all on stormcast and 2 on 6 wound hero's. 

That artifact will be great against us and nurgle board wide spells, but it wont shut us completely down. 

Edit - I'll definitely be getting my stormcast mate to take that artifact to get a feel for playing against it.

Edited by Killamike
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Relics of Hysh

Lens of Refraction:

"Each time a friendly unit within 6" of the bearer would suffer any mortal wounds from a spell cast by an enemy WIZARD, roll a D3 and reduce the number of mortal wounds suffered by the result"

- Malign Sorcery p. 85

Edited by Drib
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35 minutes ago, Olincay said:

After much deliberation, i THINK I've come up with a list.
I've completely dropped Skyfires, which honestly makes me alittle sad, but oh well.

Let me know what you all think. 

Screen Shot 2018-07-09 at 4.40.19 pm.png

I quite like the list, though with the Ogroid changes personally I'd drop him into a Magister, using the 40 points to make your Palisade a Balewind & the Shackles the Geminids or just making the Ogroid a Gaunt Summoner. 

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I certainly feel there's two ways to build Tzeentch right now - you can try and maxout the abuse of spell portal, cutting the tzaangors to 20 and skyfires to 6 or none and play a campfire around the portal or you can go opposite go 3-4 heroes, 30 gors, 9 skyfires no portal etc. Not sure what is going to come out on top going forward. 

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3 hours ago, Drib said:

Relics of Hysh

Lens of Refraction:

"Each time a friendly unit within 6" of the bearer would suffer any mortal wounds from a spell cast by an enemy WIZARD, roll a D3 and reduce the number of mortal wounds suffered by the result"

- Malign Sorcery p. 85

On bright notes it’s only a 12” bubble (plus base size) and it can’t be taken by Named uniques.

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22 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

On bright notes it’s only a 12” bubble (plus base size) and it can’t be taken by Named uniques.

Yeah I feel a Stardrake is really the main offender here, that said small characters hiding behind things pushing that bubble as it's not wholly within will be just as annoying. 

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Hi guys,
I've been thinking of a Tzaangor heavy 1k list ( that I might extend to 2K if I like it).

Do you guys have any feedback or tips for me by any chance ?

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Leaders :
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
Gaunt Summoner (180)
 
Units :
30 x Tzaangors (480)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 91

 
I was debating Between Gaunt Summoner ( because its amazing) and Ogroid Thaumaturge (because I love the model). Any feedback on this specifically ?
Also I was advised to split the Acolytes in 2 units of 10 for board control, which I thought was pretty clever.

 
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I was able to play a game of AoS2 this weekend and would like to share my experiences with you. We played 2k Sylvaneth vs 1k Slaves +1k Tzeentch (me).

The Slaves player was completely new to the game so our Sylvaneth player said he will take a toned down list. He had the batalltion with the Stormcasts (bravery 10 for everybody). 2 Treelords (1 ancient), a branchwych, 30 dryads, 10 dryads, 1 Lord Castellant providing a +2 save, 15 and 5 liberators, 1 ballista, 5 judicators. 

Our slaves player had 1 Lord on Manticore, 1 Sorcerer, 1 Lord on Daemonic Mount, 1 beast chariot, 5 knights, 15 warriors (think it was 1080 but we said its fine). 

I fielded a Gaunt Summoner as general with arcane sacrifice (Bolt of Tzeentch), 1 Lord of Change (Firestorm), 2x10 Pinks (Fold Reality + Treasons) + Geminids. 

The battle plan was the new one with 6 objectives, where you get more VPs the longer the same unit holds the objective (1, 2, 4, 4, 8). 

I deployed everything on the middle objective and 10 pinks on the right one, the slaves player camped the left one that was occupied with a big wyldwood. All sylvaneth except the small treelord went in front of the slaves, the stromcasts went in front of me with most in the center and the tree lord + ballista in front of my lone 10 pinks. 

First turn goes to us. The slaves player barely moved to stay within the wood and prevent any porting. I killed one pink with my gaunt (giving me 2 blue fate points) and the gaunt summoner killed 4 libs from the big unit with his two spells. The other wizards casted something to give me fate points. Movement was mostly static too. 3-0 and 6 FP + 2 BFP.

Sylvaneth player created 10 dryads and moved everything forward. Ballista and tree killed around 4 pinks on the right objective who managed to roll a one for battleshock :D. 3-3 and 7 FP + 8ish BFP. 

Sylvaneth got the double turn, no spells as all were unbound by my LoC. He charged the slaves with his trees and did some damage but hell, they tanked a lot. The tree lord and the libs luckily failed their charge. 3-9, 7FP, 12ih BFP.

We had our second turn and the magic was awesome. Nearly deleted the 15 libs and arcane sacrifice was perfect to bring me even more BFP. Slaves tanked and the knights, lord on manticore and chariot went into attack mode, going over the far left flank. I started swarming the board with 10 blues and a herald. 

From then on it felt like a save win. I generated a crazy amount of blue points but realized that needing 10 FP to summon anything is a problem, couldn't summon anything in round 3. Lord went full rage mode, killed all judicators that saved the middle objective of the enemy and ran 16 inch (dd). Due to me having two beers to much we lost the control over two objectives on my side being unable to hold it long enough with my pinks. 

The game ended with 39-40 VPs and we lost by a tremendously close result. With better kill removal on my end we would have won. 

My takeaways: 


Summoning is strong... I have 30 blues in my collection and 30 brims but was only able to summon the blues due to them not dying fast enough providing me the BFP for a full unit. By the second round I was hoarding my FP to always have 10 or more for the free summoning of blues. I was even running out of blue horror models quickly. Had around 18 BFP unused by the end of the game. My list was full mounty spells only but worked perfect against the slow stormcast on my side. Think it would have been completely different if the trees went against me. The stormcasts were unable to occupy enough board space to prevent my summoning. 

At 1k the list worked interestingly well with the 6 spells from 22 models, especially after adding the herald in turn 2. I kept my CPs early to use the LoCs command ability later in the game stacking the bonus as the sylvaneth player only had 2 unbinds without a bonus.

The gaunt summoner with arcane sacrifice is a beast, as the pinks don't have a problem dying to generate many blue points early in the game. My list had 0 staying potential so the libs failing the charge into my center gave me some time, this would have been a different game if they went in. We have so little things that survive the first attack until we have time to decimate the enemy that this seems to be a huge achilles verse for us. 

Endless spells are nice if you remember you have them :D In the first and second round I just forgot about the geminids, but boy they can do nice damage on protected units with their movement and 18" cast (setup) range. They will be in my lists more often! 

 

Hope you enjoyed my thoughts! 

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2 hours ago, Myzyrael said:

enerated a crazy amount of blue points but realized that needing 10 FP to summon anything is a problem, couldn't summon anything in round 3

Yeah, I ran a game at 1k vs Nighthaunt on Sunday ...

By the end of turn 2 I was at 36 BH Points ... after realizing that I didn’t 1) Have enough models, and 2) Forgot to bring the ones I had out in my Movement phase ... 

Dont forget that “Any Blue Horror Points you receive can be used instead of or as well as Fate Points when you summon a Blue Horrors unit to the battlefield.’”

So you don’t need 10 FP to use the BHP you earn from pinks dying....

And on that note: Treacherous Bond is absolutely awesome on the Ogroid Thaumaturge when backed by Pink Horrors as ablative wounds.... (Go Ogroid Thaumaturge with 18 effective wounds ... I’m out of Pinks? Go blue horror wound soak!)

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31 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Yeah, I ran a game at 1k vs Nighthaunt on Sunday ...

By the end of turn 2 I was at 36 BH Points ... after realizing that I didn’t 1) Have enough models, and 2) Forgot to bring the ones I had out in my Movement phase ... 

Dont forget that “Any Blue Horror Points you receive can be used instead of or as well as Fate Points when you summon a Blue Horrors unit to the battlefield.’”

So you don’t need 10 FP to use the BHP you earn from pinks dying....

Seems like GW wants to sell us more horrors...

maybe I misread the rule but doesn‘t it say you can only summon if you have 10 FP? You can Then use the bfp instead and still have 10 but you need to have them in the first place.

Thats at least my interpretation.

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37 minutes ago, Myzyrael said:
1 hour ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Dont forget that “Any Blue Horror Points you receive can be used instead of or as well as Fate Points when you summon a Blue Horrors unit to the battlefield.’”

Seems like GW wants to sell us more horrors...

maybe I misread the rule but doesn‘t it say you can only summon if you have 10 FP? You can Then use the bfp instead and still have 10 but you need to have them in the first place.

The BFP can be used in place of them per the “Split” rule on the Blue Horrors and “Split Again” for Brimstones ... so you need 10 collective “fate type points”. Where any combination of the following must equal 10 to summon:

- blue horror points + Fate Points,

- Brimstone Horror Points + Fate Points,

- Fate Points

The key here is “instead of”.

My quote was directly from the split rule. (Which is an update to a Warscroll Ability.) And Ability Rules on warscrolls override core rules.

And at the end of the day you can alternately take petty vengeance and attempt to cause mortal wounds. So you don’t need to use the split ability and have to buy more bodies. (But I didn’t find that helpful...)

Edited by TheOtherJosh
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1 hour ago, TheOtherJosh said:

The BFP can be used in place of them per the “Split” rule on the Blue Horrors and “Split Again” for Brimstones ... so you need 10 collective “fate type points”. Where any combination of the following must equal 10 to summon:

- blue horror points + Fate Points,

- Brimstone Horror Points + Fate Points,

- Fate Points

The key here is “instead of”.

My quote was directly from the split rule. (Which is an update to a Warscroll Ability.) And Ability Rules on warscrolls override core rules.

And at the end of the day you can alternately take petty vengeance and attempt to cause mortal wounds. So you don’t need to use the split ability and have to buy more bodies. (But I didn’t find that helpful...)

Wow ok that is really good and speeds up summoning even more 

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1 hour ago, Myzyrael said:

Wow ok that is really good and speeds up summoning even more 

The only thing to remember is that the Blue/Brimstone Horror Points are only good for summoning Blues/Brimstones respectively.

I ended up with a bucketload of the BHP ... and only 6 actual “Fate Points” in my game vs Nighthaunt.

Definitely put those regular Fate Points to the side... to bring in stuff like the Exalted Flamer or another Herald.

But Icon bearer 1s for Battleshock on the Fate dice, and Fold reality repopulate those Pink Horror Units.

Edited by TheOtherJosh
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9 minutes ago, Vexcor said:

i really dont get the summoning for tzeentch :(

if i deploy 10 pink horrors and all of them get killed,

do i get immediatly 10 blue horrors? and after that 10 brimstone horrors?

It’s in the updated faq:

“If a friendly Pink Horror model is slain, you can either take petty vengeance or receive 2 Blue Horror Points. If you take petty vengeance, pick an enemy unit within 9" of the slain Pink Horror and roll a dice. On a 6+ that enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound. Any Blue Horror Points you receive can be used instead of or as well as Fate Points when you summon a Blue Horrors unit to the battlefield.”

This follows along with the updated summoning:

“Summon Daemons of Tzeentch: [...]If you have 10 or more Fate Points at the end of your movement phase, you can summon one or more units from the list below onto the battlefield, and add them to your army. Each unit you summon costs a number of Fate Points, as shown on the list, and you can only summon a unit if you have enough Fate Points to pay its cost.”

So, pinks die, you either blow them up as they leave for a possible mortal wound, or get 2 Blue Horror Points (from each pink) that you can use towards summoning Blue Horrors.

If you have 10 (combined blue horror points plus summoning) points at the end of your movement phase you can spend that combination to bring a unit of Blues (or multiple units of blues) onto the table.

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So before AoS 6 Nations I was toying with some lists and came up with something that was similar to a list taken by a Swedish player. It had relative success with the team taking second.

The list he fielded looked like this:

Leaders
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (160) - General
- Trait: Magical Supremacy
- Artefact: Souldraught
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch

Tzaangor Shaman (180)
 - Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation

Lord Of Change (380)
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm


Battleline
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield - 3x Cursed Glaives
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 7x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield - 3x Cursed Glaives
30 x Tzaangors (480)
- 6x Pair of Savage Blade
- 12x Savage Greatblade
- 12x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
Units
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened (160)
 3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (220)
 
Battalions
Tzaangor Coven (110)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)

Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Umbral Spellportal (60)
 Total: 1990 / 2000

Im not completely sold on the list. I still think the Kairic Acolytes are very weak and with only 3 skyfires/Enlightened the list may lack damage if the 30 Tzaangors are killed. I also think the lack of bodies on the table might be an issue.  Also I’m not 100% on the lord of change I’m not convince he’s worth 380 points. 

This list is also heavily countered by engine spam and was beaten turn two by Darren Watson’s Seraphon list. However, I think the next FAQ will fix that.

So what do you guys think?
 

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2 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

It’s in the updated faq:

“If a friendly Pink Horror model is slain, you can either take petty vengeance or receive 2 Blue Horror Points. If you take petty vengeance, pick an enemy unit within 9" of the slain Pink Horror and roll a dice. On a 6+ that enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound. Any Blue Horror Points you receive can be used instead of or as well as Fate Points when you summon a Blue Horrors unit to the battlefield.”

This follows along with the updated summoning:

“Summon Daemons of Tzeentch: [...]If you have 10 or more Fate Points at the end of your movement phase, you can summon one or more units from the list below onto the battlefield, and add them to your army. Each unit you summon costs a number of Fate Points, as shown on the list, and you can only summon a unit if you have enough Fate Points to pay its cost.”

So, pinks die, you either blow them up as they leave for a possible mortal wound, or get 2 Blue Horror Points (from each pink) that you can use towards summoning Blue Horrors.

If you have 10 (combined blue horror points plus summoning) points at the end of your movement phase you can spend that combination to bring a unit of Blues (or multiple units of blues) onto the table.

Please don’t consider me being picky,  maybe that’s the computer nerd in me. I don’t want to counter your point but make my way of thinking more clear.

I read that rule differently: 

 

IF (fate points >= 10) THEN

    able to summon

    DO

        IF (fate points + blue fate points >= 10) 

             summon blue horrors

             reduce fate points / blue fate points by 10

    WHILE (fate points + blue fate points >= 10)

ELSE 

   no summoning 

 

tried to write that like some computer code to show how I interpreted that. If you have 10 or More regular fate points you can summon at all: “If you have 10 or more Fate Points at the end of your movement phase”. Then you pay for the summoning with any combination of regular fate points and blue fate points as they can (only) be used to substitute when you are able to summon at all...

what do you and others think? Has anyone else read it like me?

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1 hour ago, Myzyrael said:

Please don’t consider me being picky,  maybe that’s the computer nerd in me. I don’t want to counter your point but make my way of thinking more clear.

I read that rule differently: 

 

IF (fate points >= 10) THEN

    able to summon

    DO

        IF (fate points + blue fate points >= 10) 

             summon blue horrors

             reduce fate points / blue fate points by 10

    WHILE (fate points + blue fate points >= 10)

ELSE 

   no summoning 

 

tried to write that like some computer code to show how I interpreted that. If you have 10 or More regular fate points you can summon at all: “If you have 10 or more Fate Points at the end of your movement phase”. Then you pay for the summoning with any combination of regular fate points and blue fate points as they can (only) be used to substitute when you are able to summon at all...

what do you and others think? Has anyone else read it like me?

Your code was perfect in theory assuming “Core Rules beats Warscroll” however you missed the exception clause. Where Warscroll beats Core Rules.

P.238 “Most warscrolls include one or more abilities that can be used by the warscroll’s models during a game of Warhammer Age of Sigmar. Abilities take precedence over the core rules.”

The “Split” rule on the Blue Horror Warscroll now States:

”If a friendly Pink Horror model is slain, you can either take petty vengeance or receive 2 Blue Horror Points. If you take petty vengeance, pick an enemy unit within 9" of the slain Pink Horror and roll a dice. On a 6+ that enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound. Any Blue Horror Points you receive can be used instead of or as well as Fate Points when you summon a Blue Horrors unit to the battlefield.

So, Fate Points could be replaced with “Blue Horror” + “Fate Points => 10.

So it’s a Blue Horror Points(or Brimstone) being able to replace Fate Points at the first check. (For instances of summoning Blue Horrors.)

Edited by TheOtherJosh
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