AoS 2 - Disciples of Tzeentch Discussion

[GeneralZero]

Is the mutalith worth a try in AoS? Competitive? (in both DoT and StD)

[Landohammer]

6 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Is the mutalith worth a try in AoS? Competitive? (in both DoT and StD)

I think the Mutalith is pretty much middle of the road. You get a pretty decent behemoth for 200pts and the model is awesome. However, since many of us spend quite a bit of points on our Lords of Change, we tend to shy away from any additional unnecessary behemoths. Also, competitive players don't like rolling on charts.

Despite all that, I think he would be really fun in casual games. My biggest issue is that his ability activates in the Hero phase, so you can pretty much count on wasting it turn 1 (and maybe even turn 2).

Compare that to the Soul Grinder which can easily be in range of its shooting weapons turn 1, and is a bit better in combat. 

 

 

 

[Paniere]

On 9/26/2019 at 10:13 AM, simakover said:

so im get many more model for tzeentch army. can i build decent Changehost? or some variation? dont have many blue/brims

im have next:

1 box of acolytes
2 box of pink horrors
3 box of blue/brim horrors
SC: demons(plan to convert chariot into Blue scribes, so would have 10 pinks, 5 screemers, herald, ex flamer and 3 flamers)
3 box of enlightened
1 Lord of Change
1 Gaunt summoner
1 Ogrioid Thaumaturge
1 Magister
1 warband of shadespire(eyes of the nine)
1 Shaman on disk
1 Changeling

You have enough demons for a very good changehost, maybe 10/20 blues for summoning.  You are only missing 5/7 endless spell. The only arcanite I field in mine is the GS

 

[simakover]

1 hour ago, Paniere said:

You have enough demons for a very good changehost, maybe 10/20 blues for summoning.  You are only missing 5/7 endless spell. The only arcanite I field in mine is the GS

 

im have malignt sorcery box. so 2 box of blue horrors

[HMB]

hello can you give me some feedback on the list I will run at Weekend Warlords in Italy (60 players O_O )?

 

LEADERS

Lord of Change (380)
- General
- Command Trait : Magical Supremacy
- Artefact : Mark of the Conjurer
- Lore of Change : Tzeentch's Firestorm

Kairos Fateweaver (380)
- Lore of Change : Fold Reality

Tzaangor Shaman (160)
- Lore of Change : Fold Reality

Gaunt Summoner (160)
- Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch

UNITS

10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 7 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3 x Cursed Glaives

10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 7 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3 x Cursed Glaives

10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)
- 7 x Cursed Blade & Arcanite Shield
- 3 x Cursed Glaives

9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (480)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN

Balewind Vortex (40)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

[GeneralZero]

I don't know yet DoT enough to be expert but for what I see, you won't control map enough with this list to score some points: the 3 battlelines are so soft that they evaporate as soon as they are watched/attacked.

[HMB]

2 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

I don't know yet DoT enough to be expert but for what I see, you won't control map enough with this list to score some points: the 3 battlelines are so soft that they evaporate as soon as they are watched/attacked.

yeah you're right but at turn 1 i'm able to summon at least 10 blue horrors and with Enlighted i will crush the menace on objectives

[Landohammer]

I think this is a fun list but I would not recommend it for a grand tournament. Over 1500 points of your list has minimal to no combat ability. I echo General Zero in that you are not going to be able to take and hold objectives. The 9 Tzaangor Enlightened will hit like a truck but they can only be in one place at a time. If they get held up (or wiped out) then you will be relying exclusively on frail wizards and summoning to remain a threat in combat. 

Blue/Brimstone horrors are great for grabbing unprotected objectives, but they cannot retake objectives or defend them. Same with your Acolytes.

There are also some EXTREMELY hard counters to this army.  Nagash, Khorne or any of the alpha strike armies come to mind.

I would drop either Kairos or LoC and some of your Acolytes for some units of Tzaangors. I would also split your enlightened into a unit of 6 and a unit of 3. 

If you are dead set on using magic and summoning  then you need Pink Horrors. 

  

[HMB]

thanks for your advices

I will run this list in the next tournament 'cause i cannot paint any other miniatures before the tournament start

[RUNCMD]

Since the points drop for Pinks and Changehost Battalion being a more viable option, have many people been taking this list to any friendly games / tournaments and if so, would like to share their experiences?, thoughts on the list or any suggestions/things to think about when using it?

 

I am yet to play a game with this list as I will be using it for future comps, and will report back here after!

[Worm]

Hello,

I will start with new army and tadaaadad, it will be Dispiles of Tzzentch

 

I have one question regarding Pink Horrors, I am not sure that I understand correctly below rule, so can you be so kind and tell me what is correct:

 

 

1.)    When Pink horror model dies on +6 you receive 2 Blue Horror points or you do 1 mortal wound to someone in 9 inches

 

 

2.)    Or Anytime when Pink Horror dies you get 2 Blue Horror points, so when 10 Pink horrors dies, you get 20 Blue Horror points, meaning you can summon 2 units of Blue Horrors and when Blue Horrors dies you get 1 point for Brimstone Horrors of Tzeentch so that means you get 2 more units, so basically 10x Pink horror is like having a MAX of 50 wounds???

GW FAQ:

If a friendly Pink Horror model is slain, you can either take petty vengeance or receive 2 Blue Horror Points. If you take petty vengeance, pick an enemy unit within 9" of the slain Pink Horror and roll a dice. On a 6+ that enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound. Any Blue Horror Points you receive can be used instead of or as well as Fate Points when you summon a Blue Horrors unit to the battlefield.’

 

And second question is, do you need to do battleshock teast even if you can't fail, meaning you loose 1 or 2 Pink horror models and you know you can't fail as your bravery is 10, do you have to do it?

Edited October 11, 2019 by Worm

[Dreadmund]

1 hour ago, Worm said:

Some Stuff

Yup, a unit of 10 pink horrors when slain would give you enough points to summon 2 units of 10 blue horrors. And then those 10 Blues can be used to summon 10 brimstones if they are slain. That, along with being magic users, is why Pink Horrors are such an excellent Battleline.

Yes, you can make a battleshock roll even if you can't fail. And you can use a 1 from your pool of destiny dice to guarantee you get some Pink Horrors back. This  means that you can potentially gain more pink horrors than you lost, since it ADDS models, instead of RETURNING SLAIN MODELS. For example, you start with 10, 1 is slain, you get a 1 on your battleshock and add between 1 and 6 models to the unit.

[Worm]

Damn, then Pink Horrors are the best unit.

[Paniere]

On 10/9/2019 at 12:39 AM, RUNCMD said:

Since the points drop for Pinks and Changehost Battalion being a more viable option, have many people been taking this list to any friendly games / tournaments and if so, would like to share their experiences?, thoughts on the list or any suggestions/things to think about when using it?

 

I am yet to play a game with this list as I will be using it for future comps, and will report back here after!

I have played a dozen games with CH so far, no competitive environment but tournament rules nonetheless. I'm still very far for mastering this batallion, it requires a lot of thinking, positioning and decision making. The slightest  error and your paper casters  will get wiped out. If I have the certainty of going first, I usually deploy at least 2 units of pinks as close as possible to enemy lines, then at the start of my hero phase I swap them, gaining 9 inches towards the enemy. Then I release 2 powerful endless spells, combining the destiny dices, and +2 or +3 rerollable casting rolls (LoC comand ability and blue scribes). Then I can run back in the movement phase to defend my rear lines. So far so good. My learning curve gets steep when the Changeling comes into play. I must deploy him in the opponent zone, but not too close to the enemy's heroes in order not to get discovered. At the same time, it must me within 27" from the LoC to teleport something nasty behind the enemy  lines . Honestly, so far I've always failed to use it effectively, very hard to master but potentially very funny

[Futa]

How do you guys transport your LoCs around? I normally use a storage box w/ magnets and metal sheets, but it doesn't fit the ungodly dimensions of the LoC. 

[HMB]

i use an Ikea's Kvissle and magnets

[simakover]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:36 PM, Paniere said:

I have played a dozen games with CH so far, no competitive environment but tournament rules nonetheless. I'm still very far for mastering this batallion, it requires a lot of thinking, positioning and decision making. The slightest  error and your paper casters  will get wiped out. If I have the certainty of going first, I usually deploy at least 2 units of pinks as close as possible to enemy lines, then at the start of my hero phase I swap them, gaining 9 inches towards the enemy. Then I release 2 powerful endless spells, combining the destiny dices, and +2 or +3 rerollable casting rolls (LoC comand ability and blue scribes). Then I can run back in the movement phase to defend my rear lines. So far so good. My learning curve gets steep when the Changeling comes into play. I must deploy him in the opponent zone, but not too close to the enemy's heroes in order not to get discovered. At the same time, it must me within 27" from the LoC to teleport something nasty behind the enemy  lines . Honestly, so far I've always failed to use it effectively, very hard to master but potentially very funny

very interest, im now painting my changehost so interest in any strategy for it. That spell you used? that endlesses throwing first? how position right and cast as many on first turn as possible?

also how you gain +3 for pinks? +1 for it passive, +1 from CA from LOC. but how +3? 

[Drib]

Spoiler

49 minutes ago, simakover said:

very interest, im now painting my changehost so interest in any strategy for it. That spell you used? that endlesses throwing first? how position right and cast as many on first turn as possible?

also how you gain +3 for pinks? +1 for it passive, +1 from CA from LOC. but how +3? 

 

You can use the LoC's CA more than once!

[Primes]

Hello everyone,

I have played my first game with Changehost yesterday and had to learn that there seem to be a lot of unclear cases with the Rules as Written. My questions are:

Blues Sribes allow me to reroll all failed casting attempts. Bloodsecrator makes me reroll successfull casting attempts. As per Core Rules you never reroll a reroll. So if I failed, then rerolled and succeeded my casting roll I would not have to reroll it again because of the Secrator, right? My opponent thought otherwise.

Mark of the Conjurer on Lord of Change: Do I get two Fait Points when Casting with him as essentially every casting roll is a double thanks to his warscroll ability? I would say surely.

The tough one: Does a Roll count as modified when using a Destiny Dice? Wording is "Instead of making a Dice roll". I would say that you can only modify a given result of a dice roll. As we never roll a dice but EXCHANGE the roll for a fixed result I would argue that Destiny Dice are unmodified rolls. Its relevant regarding getting back Pink Horrors with a Battleshock of 1 (online everyone seems to play it like my interpretation) or making Skyfires do mortals on a hit roll of 6.

Thanks a lot for your input! If there is any definition of what GW counts as modified and what not I would be forever grateful.

 

[MGeffro]

1 hour ago, Primes said:

Blues Sribes allow me to reroll all failed casting attempts. Bloodsecrator makes me reroll successfull casting attempts. As per Core Rules you never reroll a reroll. So if I failed, then rerolled and succeeded my casting roll I would not have to reroll it again because of the Secrator, right? My opponent thought otherwise.

From core rules: "You can never re-roll a dice more than once"

1 hour ago, Primes said:

Mark of the Conjurer on Lord of Change: Do I get two Fait Points when Casting with him as essentially every casting roll is a double thanks to his warscroll ability? I would say surely.

Yes

1 hour ago, Primes said:

The tough one: Does a Roll count as modified when using a Destiny Dice? Wording is "Instead of making a Dice roll". I would say that you can only modify a given result of a dice roll. As we never roll a dice but EXCHANGE the roll for a fixed result I would argue that Destiny Dice are unmodified rolls. Its relevant regarding getting back Pink Horrors with a Battleshock of 1 (online everyone seems to play it like my interpretation) or making Skyfires do mortals on a hit roll of 6.

Yes, they count as unmodified rolls, so we want lot of 1s for Pink Horrors.

 

[Primes]

3 hours ago, MGeffro said:

From core rules: "You can never re-roll a dice more than once"

Yes

Yes, they count as unmodified rolls, so we want lot of 1s for Pink Horrors.

 

Thanks a lot for your Input! I would love for some kind of source for Destiny Dice counting as unmodified but I fear there is none (except semantics).

[MGeffro]

In battletome it says "the result you would have made is automatically substituted with the result shown on the Destiny Dice". It still is unmodified roll. Modified roll is one affected by any skills that adds/substracts/multiplies/divides it. Like "increase hit roll by x" or "substracy y from Bravery".

[simakover]

so that variant of Changehost now is most competitve? 

[HMB]

can I change the result of a casting roll o 4 (for example) with a 10 (changing both dice) with Kairos' Oracle of Eternity?

[Bufkin]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 12:45 PM, simakover said:

so that variant of Changehost now is most competitve? 

Changehost is such a focused build and the room to maneuver within it is so small that there is not really a best version of changehost and the optimal one will be tailored to the local meta, your personal playstyle/preferences and the tournament pack.